Agreed. Monitors are cool.
Traveller, The Rise of Empire: A Naval Design, Procurement and Command Quest
- Thread starter 4WheelSword
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- Original Art Quest Sci-Fi
What could we put in there?
If tonnage is our bottleneck, then picking the highest tonnage option now seems like a bad idea...
Coyote Niff
the most transbian obligate scavenger on the 'net!
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Hard agree. Space monitors are cool as fuck.
[X] 1-to1 mix of Interstellar Cruiser and Armed Scout
[X] Reserve more tonnage for defensive construction: 3200 tons
The Armed Scout and Interstellar Cruisers both come out kind of equal in terms of fighting power. The scout can close and kill, being able to outpace something in Traveller's system is huge as it lets you decide not only whether to engage, but also the engagement ranges if I remember right. Unfortunately the Scout can't brawl, not even as a pipe dream, but the Cruiser can. Its not much, but the 8 armor does let it take a hit from some things, and it still isn't that slow. So a combo working in pairs is best. As for tonnage, reserving 3400 tons for the offensive fleet arm allows for 2 of each hull to be produced at the same time.
[X] Reserve more tonnage for defensive construction: 3200 tons
The Armed Scout and Interstellar Cruisers both come out kind of equal in terms of fighting power. The scout can close and kill, being able to outpace something in Traveller's system is huge as it lets you decide not only whether to engage, but also the engagement ranges if I remember right. Unfortunately the Scout can't brawl, not even as a pipe dream, but the Cruiser can. Its not much, but the 8 armor does let it take a hit from some things, and it still isn't that slow. So a combo working in pairs is best. As for tonnage, reserving 3400 tons for the offensive fleet arm allows for 2 of each hull to be produced at the same time.
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I think the Cruiser is still the better option at the moment, sure the scout is nice and fancy but we're still building our first ships of a new navy. These things need to be survivable so we can build up an actual industry to support being able to build less survivable glass cannons.
We can build 7 cruisers with our current tonnage limit, or we can build 9 armed scouts with both having less tonnage to spare to build another ship. 2 Ships isn't enough of a difference when you consider the scouts are armored like tin cans and expensive as all hell, if we build 6 cruisers we have enough tonnage left over to build 3 MVP's to support it in combat and on patrol. Plus I'd rather not scramble the cruisers every time we need to send out a ship to explore first contacts or strange signals in space. The MPV's are perfect for giving us a small and cheap craft capable of doing short scouting missions as well as providing extra fire support for the cruisers given 3 MPV's have more PB's than a single cruiser and it would put those guns in multiple targets on top of having to deal with the PB's from the cruiser.
We can build 7 cruisers with our current tonnage limit, or we can build 9 armed scouts with both having less tonnage to spare to build another ship. 2 Ships isn't enough of a difference when you consider the scouts are armored like tin cans and expensive as all hell, if we build 6 cruisers we have enough tonnage left over to build 3 MVP's to support it in combat and on patrol. Plus I'd rather not scramble the cruisers every time we need to send out a ship to explore first contacts or strange signals in space. The MPV's are perfect for giving us a small and cheap craft capable of doing short scouting missions as well as providing extra fire support for the cruisers given 3 MPV's have more PB's than a single cruiser and it would put those guns in multiple targets on top of having to deal with the PB's from the cruiser.
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See there's some big issues with the MVPs. Those being; they're slow and they lack armor. They also have the smallest firepower of the options, but that isn't too big an issue. For slow, like I said, it's not just an issue of being able to catch or disengage a target at will, but also about keeping the target in the preferred range band of our main weapons (I think I remember certain weapons having better engagement bands, not just outranging something). But on top of that they can't even take a hit in a combat engagement. As an Intrasystem craft the MVP would be fine for patrol duties, but its not, its our intersystem offensive combat ship. It's basically the equivalent of giving a torpedo human guidance.
For something we can outrun the Scout is perfect, for something we can't the Scouts can slip behind and support the cruiser line.
For something we can outrun the Scout is perfect, for something we can't the Scouts can slip behind and support the cruiser line.
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For all these reasons then still why not adopt it for intrasolar defense? Again there's no fine print that we have to build the class immediately but there's no good reason to just throw the design out.
So the big reason why is the fact it mounts the Jump-drive at all. We could get better economy or mission capability out of a similar ship if it just dropped the drive and fuel allotment. But it's on there, and essentially just turning the torpedo fancy. For actual patrol, scout and cruiser are both better, again. Scout because once again faster, cruiser because both faster and it has a ships boat. Shuttles in Traveller have weeks long endurance.
Edit:
Jump tugs are a thing in Traveller as well. The design system allows for ships to mount Jump drives but not have maneuvering drives. So they can just load/attach a bunch of smaller intrasystem ships and move them to the next system over.
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I think the Armed Scout and Interstellar Cruiser are both viable to same degree, but the MVP isn't for reasons WallFly mentioned. From there, the main point I have against the Interstellar Cruiser is that it is already outdated. It's flying on old fusion reactors. We should be working with prototype fission reactors, so that we can get our people familiar with them and have them be reliable and robust for the next generation of warships.
Got that fusion fission mixed up there. Fission is splitting the Atom, Fusion is forming it. The Interstellar Cruiser actually uses the "prototype" fusion reactor the actual Scout Ship uses.
Edit:
While rereading some rules stuff, also found out the MVP is objectively the most fragile because it is also the smallest. Ships get hit points per 50 tons. So yeah, the only upside it has is "cheap".
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Indeed, my mistake. Both the Armed Scout and Interstellar Cruise use Fusion Plants. I've been looking at MVP. 
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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It could be refit as a hangar for small craft, a troop bay, a drone station and the drones
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[X] Interstellar Cruiser
[X] Use an on-off program, building first our offensive ships, then defensive, sequentially.
[X] Use an on-off program, building first our offensive ships, then defensive, sequentially.
GiovanniBlasini
Transhumanist Nutcase from Niops IX
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[X] Interstellar Cruiser
[X] Use an on-off program, building first our offensive ships, then defensive, sequentially.
[X] Use an on-off program, building first our offensive ships, then defensive, sequentially.
1-7: Boldly Going
4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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Select one of the above designs: Interstellar Cruiser
How should we move forwards with this program? Use an on-off program, building first our offensive ships, then defensive, sequentially.
Old Hull, New Ship
The Interstellar Cruiser will echo the symbols of the past while pushing Home swiftly into a new future. Taking the basic hull design that has previously been used for the Interplanetary Cruiser, the innards are completely torn out and rearranged to better suit a modern, jump-capable warship. It's primary armament will not be missiles, but four particle cannon turrets arranged in a concentric pattern around the main hull. Defensive turrets, each of a modern, dual-weapon design, will be fitted predominantly with lasers to ensure enemy missile fire cannot make it through to impact the ships hull despite the thick armouring that covers every surface of the warship.
There are prices paid for these offensive and defensive capabilities. The ship will be fast, but not nearly as fast as our scout intends to be, and most of the twenty-five crew will be packed sardine-like into barracks rooms rather than being offered a full stateroom as they are on other ships. They are also only capable of two months of independent operations, without enough room aboard the ship for additional fuel or stores with current technology. Hopefully progress will lead us towards more capable ships in the future in that regard.
As much as that is the case, as much as the ships will have their downsides, the Navy has selected this 1,000 ton design and, with 6,600 tons of dockyard space available, begins cutting the Titanium-Steel for six of these fine new warships. The government, passed the memoranda of purchase, issues six new names for the ships. They will be the HSWS Apedemak, HSWS Apolake, HSWS Ninurta, HSWS Pallas, HSWS Sakumo, and the HSWS Sekhmet. It will be the most expensive order ever developed, with 2,781.61Mcr or almost three-billion credits being spent on these six advanced warships. They will take 120 weeks to build, six months longer than the scouts, though later ships of the same class are likely to have a reduced build time due to yard experience.
Scouting for Pearls
Ninety-six weeks, almost 24 months, a little under two years; that's how long it takes to build the HSWS Heimdall and the HSWS Janus. It isn't until the second anniversary of Navy Day that the first ship of the Interstellar Surveyor class is preparing to make its first jump in earnest, plotting a course for the next system over. Fine, capable crews have been chosen for both ships, officers trained in diplomacy, philosophy and communication as well as the less unusual concepts of war theory and combat tactics.
Side and Front views of the HSWS Heimdall, showing the unusual 'outrigger' drive pods
The two systems have been named according to transliterated radio telescope recordings made of their suns radiation. They are nonsense words, but with no better solutions forthcoming and an eagerness to avoid labelling the homes of sentient life with a string of numbers, they are the best available. Thus, HSWS Heimdall is charting a course for Xyri, while HSWS Janus intends to depart for S'taxu in the days following. Hopefully in a few weeks we will have a far more detailed star chart available - and a better idea of who our neighbours are and whether or not we will need the warships that are now just a few months from completion.
What is the main mission of these ships?
[ ] To stay safe, and refuse contact as much as it is possible.
[ ] To gather information on the system, its resources, and what it's value might be to Home.
[ ] To gather information on the people, their level of development, and their potential threat to Home.
[ ] To make contact with the legitimate planetary government, extend the olive branch, and reach out to the stars.
What mission duration should be aimed for?
[ ] Six hours, to reduce the chance of the inhabitants responding to the Jump Flash.
[ ] Until a response is detected in the system being scouted.
[ ] A week.
[ ] As long as possible, supplies and fuel lasting.
[ ] Write-in - the ship has two months of supplies and fuel, but must accommodate two weeks of jump travel and a week travel in/out of system.
What should be done in case of the risk of capture?
[ ] Scuttle the ship and request mercy. Cruisers will follow up in the coming months.
[ ] Attempt to Jump away if possible.
[ ] Go out fighting.
[ ] Write-in.
Are there any additional orders you would issue to the scout crews?
[ ] Write-in.
We've got two surveyors. Perhaps we should make it so, that both ships jump to the same system? One of them could have the orders to keep to the outskirts of the system so that it can observe what the other does and, in case of an attack or other troubles, will be in position to jump away with the recordings of whatever happened.
EDIT: Also, now that I think about it, our guys should first jump to the empty hexes. Make sure their engines work as intended, get the crews used to cooperating with each other, plus make sure there's no buoys or beacons left by someone else there.
[ ] To gather information on the people, their level of development, and their potential threat to Home.
If contacted, their task should be to arrange for later talks, don't negotiate on their own. Resources in these systems are likely already being extracted, so there's no real point to prioritizing them.
[ ] Six hours, to reduce the chance of the inhabitants responding to the Jump Flash.
We've made our guys small for a reason. Being undetected is a good idea. Also, what's a Jump Flash?
[ ] Attempt to Jump away if possible.
With tandem scouts we can make sure that at least one of them gets away. Also, how long does it take for a ship to execute a jump?
EDIT: Also, now that I think about it, our guys should first jump to the empty hexes. Make sure their engines work as intended, get the crews used to cooperating with each other, plus make sure there's no buoys or beacons left by someone else there.
[ ] To gather information on the people, their level of development, and their potential threat to Home.
If contacted, their task should be to arrange for later talks, don't negotiate on their own. Resources in these systems are likely already being extracted, so there's no real point to prioritizing them.
[ ] Six hours, to reduce the chance of the inhabitants responding to the Jump Flash.
We've made our guys small for a reason. Being undetected is a good idea. Also, what's a Jump Flash?
[ ] Attempt to Jump away if possible.
With tandem scouts we can make sure that at least one of them gets away. Also, how long does it take for a ship to execute a jump?
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4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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1) Jump flash is what happens when you enter or emerge from jump space. Big flash of photons and radiation. If someone is looking, they'll see it.
2) Depends. With a good astronavigator, you're looking at about an hour to plot a jump, charge capacitors and ready the ship for jump. Absolute safest procedures ask for about 16 hours between jumps for minor maintenance and recharging.
Are we looking? I assume we are, if not that's a serious oversight. Is it possible to hide that flash behind, say, a planet? Is it possible to fist jump far far away from the system, but close enough to see what planets exist and then go back to Home, refuel, and then jump in again in a pre-planned hidden location?
Is it possible to "hold a jump"? As in, begin procedured immediatelly, but wait with pushing the big red button until later?
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4WheelSword
The original N-body Problem
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We are absolutely looking. The sky is big, but as soon as a jump flash was understood, it's been a key, I imagine.
Yes, but. So the way jump works in traveller is that gravity fucks it. You have to be 100 diameters away from any significant gravity well, such as a planet. So, hiding behind Jupiter would require jumping accurately to a point 14,000,000 kilometres 'behind' it. Now, admittedly, that's a tenth of the distance between Jupiter and earth, so you're going to block a fair bit of sky using a gas giant for it.
As long as they don't have detection systems around Jupiter.
True. That said, if these guys are a bit less advanced or less attentive, then we can benefit from attempting to hide our scouting. At best, they've got technological parity, because we haven't yet observed an incursion into Home system.