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Touhou: Scarlet Devil M̶a̶n̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ Mafia

Should Day 2 be extended by another twenty-four hours?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 83.3%

  • No

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
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End of Night 5/Start of Day 6
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    • The party of nine from where they had entered in the night comes out to a party of seven, all of them looking as two more of their numbers have vanished. And so like every night prior, the two missing are revealed.



    The first is revealed as Reisen Inaba, Moon Rabbit on Earth (@Shalmoa), who 'died' from a Knock on the Head.



    The second is revealed as Alice Margatroid, Seven-Colored Puppet Master (@dinomannitro6), who 'died' from being Knocked Out In A Closet.

    And a message is left upon the table to read.

    Reevals needed on Walker's flip
    Everyone needs progressions now IMO
    Hobo's vote NAI even if late due to self-pres
    Other votes probably won't get good info at this point
    Not sure if absences are notable right now (Dino/Comi, YP to a lesser extent)
    Figure one more affordable miss ATM but needs serious discussion given game length
    Probably makes it a good spot to fill out claim space
    Wiadi, Comi, Atoms are the only unclaimed ATM
    Atoms can clear with N5 Town kill, Wiadi/Comi mech-locked out of Odd-Night TKP
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    And so the seven members of the party begin the sixth day…

    End of Day is at
     
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  • Threadmarks
    • Ori said:
    I genuinely dislike that YP vote on Rosen and think it sucks but I still think it's firmly within town YP range.
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    I'm at about the same spot but more in a null space for YP at the moment. While I don't like the post, I still find myself feeling a lot worse about the continuation of the 99L stuff in general after multiple voices had it pinned as more of a "we need to do other things Today" look. Will see how the Day progresses if I change feelings at all.
    Logos said:
    Coming back to this thread, EoD felt pretty chaotic to me. I've already poked at what I saw as a result of it, which unfortunately isn't much. In retrospect, I wouldn't be surprised if it was all town on town with the scum team sitting back and letting it happen, but there's enough noise between videogames, family, holidays, etc., that that doesn't feel like a productive approach.

    Did you get anything more out of it?
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    You're definitely right that just calling it all Town with everything that happened is probably not the right call -- in fact I'd be much more surprised if that was the case, versus there being scum littered across wagons to look natural in a chaotic EoD. I haven't gotten anything concrete out of it up until this point, but I'm not sure I will until Day 2 ends, to see how voter behavior has changed.
     
    Also like scum metagame on SV has absolutely just been shooting into lower mid targets for obfuscation and to let vets fight amongst themselves reasonably often lately so n1 targetting is a lot wider for a prot is wider than you'd think.
     
    Young Pyromancer said:
    I think that's the disconnect. I'm trying to empathize with you (collective) to see things from your perspective so that my logical arguments aren't just trash that is easily circumvented by 'what if you're scum tho'?
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    I mean, hot-take(?) here, but I mostly don't even read logical arguments for the logic. All I'm interested in is "are players playing consistently? are players playing coherently? are people trying to understand each other? are people trying to misdirect each other?"
     
    Nictis said:
    (This is why I gave the heads up on that, I can do it without feeling bad)
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    I did not actually see the heads up before I saw you calling time, btw.
    Byzantine said:
    Honestly I'd have just assumed your clock was wrong.
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    ^
    Ori said:
    Ok lets go find what Nictis knew that got him shot N1 instead of talking about this more.
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    to be fair, could also be just... hey, it's Nictis
    hugh_donnetono said:
    more specifically, it feels more like a will from one of the dead people than another copy of whatever you can do to me, in which case it'd've come from nictis or roach. which of those two seems more likely to you?
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    I doubt it's a will unless the role gives a will. Which is very possible.
    Since
    You know
    It's obvious that not everyone gets a will.
    That said, if it is a will, it's clearly Nictis.

    Oh shit I'm six pages behind. Okay. One post per page.
     
    Like 100% I'll take Ori point at someone and saying "they're bad, vibe read" more seriously than I'll take most reasoning that falls anywhere in between tautologically true in all scenarios and literally concretely instantiated at all points.
     
    Ori said:
    Also like scum metagame on SV has absolutely just been shooting into lower mid targets for obfuscation and to let vets fight amongst themselves reasonably often lately so n1 targetting is a lot wider for a prot is wider than you'd think.
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    Why is that anyway? Wouldn't picking a random veteran target work as well for the purpose of obfuscation?
     
    Nanimani said:
    to be fair, could also be just... hey, it's Nictis
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    This is a very valid point but I also think gunning for Nictis N1 is often a higher risk shot, it could be just a yolo to get them out (not even a low probability) but it's still worth a quick back read just in case it was deeper than that.
     
    I mean, we got Nictis eliminated pretty quickly this game, which is something I would do, and once did try and failed to.

    Does that say something about scum team?
     
    NinetyNineLies said:
    Why is that anyway? Wouldn't picking a random veteran target work as well for the purpose of obfuscation?
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    If you kill all the vets except the ones on your team, then the final-X tends to be "why the heck is susvet still alive when all the townvets are dead, anyways?" And if they're on your team and you're concerned about that fail state, that's probably a loss.
     
    NinetyNineLies said:
    Why is that anyway? Wouldn't picking a random veteran target work as well for the purpose of obfuscation?
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    Mostly because it gives a lot of plausible deniability to vets in positions where they find themselves in late-game and need a good reason as to why they're alive that late in the first place. Exo-Colony is probably the best example of this since Nictis and I were both Scum together, and absolutely needed other vets alive as long as possible to not get nuked on the "they're too good to not be dead yet" principle.

    I don't think the Nictis kill really says anything about the scum team this game though, particularly because of the overall player volume in comparison to previous games. That, and I would give the vets enough credit to change up that idea if they thought it would lead to a better end state.
     
    As another case study, IIRC -Rosen and I also had pretty good success with the same strategy in one of the Chess Mafias, but in this case it was specifically because we didn't have a lot of thread control on our team (especially after -Rosen got vigged N1), so we relied on vet paranoia to get attention off of actual scumhunting to an extent.
     
    Young Pyromancer said:
    I mean, my logic was that Rosen wouldn't make an argument like that for anyone but a teammate, but going by how no one seems to agree with me, I guess that's wrong.
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    I mean defending townies who you think are town can be net positive as a townie, so defending townies who people would think you think are town when you're pretending to be town is a net positive for pretending to be a townie. Especially, for the scum case, when said townie is drawing a lot of attention from the thread and keeping them alive longer makes town waste more energy.
     
    Young Pyromancer said:
    I mean, my logic was that Rosen wouldn't make an argument like that for anyone but a teammate, but going by how no one seems to agree with me, I guess that's wrong.
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    Eh, if it's something I find more principled like that I don't care as much what the alignments look like between me and the person I'm defending. For all I know I could have just defended a lying Scum!99L here, but in a hindsight situation, I doubt that would change my opinion on the argument.
     
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