Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age

@veekie, I don't think it works like that - we get a total of three years off of our next Quiescence, not a 3 legend discount for every trait and attribute we pick up during our next quiescence.

Edit: Nemmind, I'm an idiot, you got the math right.

edit 2: Or maybe you didn't??

derp.
 
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IMO I don't want to take any animal traits, not because of Saiga being a hunter, but because.. I just don't want any animal traits. Harzi had plenty of those.
 

This will be the last time I warn anyone that DE income has been heavily impacted compared to it's previous rate. You do not get 5+ DE/Faith anymore. The multipliers are not quite as geometric as they once were.

Ah, noted. In which case we can count on Faith 2 = "Able to move the big rock into our Secret Place and still be able to do something else to earn DE by calming waters", but not on Faith 3 = "Able to just go choo choo on the rock train"

Though I was leaning Avatar.
 
@Powerofmind - How would a plan with Roil and personally guiding ships be interpreted - we sink everything but personally our followers? Would one guide action be enough everyone who follows us (assuming we declare for Faith but don't get Humanity yet, so Faith 1) or would we need to budget more to be sure?
If you leave it up to me that's probably how I'll interpret things. If you don't feel like leaving it up to chance, specify the kind of thing you'd like to do.
I would support greater Influence path.
@Powerofmind I have a question

Does this mean it would take us 6 turns to bring it back or that we have 6 turns to bring it back?(In which case why? Is something else planning on taking it?)

Would they be for Fear though?:p
You have a 6 turn timer to successfully acquire the sphere. After that point the quest reward is reduced, the legend of the act watered down.

Fear is also reduced. The *5 multiplier for all DE income is 2 now, and while it does increase, this increase is slow as the population requirement to raise it is exponentially higher per point, which is a fairly serious hit to DE gen across the board until you have a more developed society.
@veekie, I don't think it works like that - we get a total of three years off of our next Quiescence, not a 3 legend discount for every trait and attribute we pick up during our next quiescence.
This is accurate.
 
I don't think Humanity or Mischief would help us much for the Quest, except maybe in easing the aquirement of DE? which is important, but I don't really know how much...
Pretty much. Mischief won't help this quest, but would help with Saiga.
Does this mean it would take us 6 turns to bring it back or that we have 6 turns to bring it back?(In which case why? Is something else planning on taking it?)
The latter if it's like Amber Age. It's a meta info quest timer.
Once we've started moving the rock(which we have), it's NOT in a stable, sheltered place. It's being bounced around the sea floor, acquiring algae coat, etc. It won't be perfect and Moon anymore.
@veekie, I don't think it works like that - we get a total of three years off of our next Quiescence, not a 3 legend discount for every trait and attribute we pick up during our next quiescence.

Edit: Nemmind, I'm an idiot, you got the math right.

edit 2: Or maybe you didn't??

derp.
I applied the sleep time discount towards buying Elemental Avatar, then applied the elemental avatar discount towards buying Avatar.
 
Spotted the problem! We've only got 5 legend to work with, so Avatar 3 appears out of our reach if we grab ea - water.

EA water is four legend, and gives us a cumulative legend discount on Avatar of 3. As such, Avatar 2 is free, and Avatar 3 has a one legend discount, putting it at 2 legend, for six total.

We could still get Avatar 3, we'd just skip out on EA - Water. Avatar 2, 2 legend; Avatar 3, 3 legend; 5 legend total. No bonuses for EA - Water though.
 
@Academia Nut, I think I'm beginning to understand the kind of thought process you had for escalating so fast in your quests. These dice are absolutely horrendous little things! COMMISERATE WITH MEEE!

"Ah, that's a pretty great roll, I should give them at least the opportunity to get something awesome out of that... huh, still more awesome rolls, and I already gave them that other thing... uh oh..."
 
[] Upgrade Plan Do We Even Lift
-[] Faith 0->1 - 0 Legend, 0 years
-[] Elemental Avatar - 4 Legend, 4-3 years
-[] Avatar 1->2 - 2-2 Legend, 0 years
-[] Legend used: 4, Time used: 1 year

This. I would vote for this. But maybe declare ourselves first, go faith, help a bit, warn that we won't be there next year? Maybe even acquire a legend point from doing... uhh, something?
 
Spotted the problem! We've only got 5 legend to work with, so Avatar 3 appears out of our reach if we grab ea - water.

EA water is four legend, and gives us a cumulative legend discount on Avatar of 3. As such, Avatar 2 is free, and Avatar 3 has a one legend discount, putting it at 2 legend, for six total.

We could still get Avatar 3, we'd just skip out on EA - Water. Avatar 2, 2 legend; Avatar 3, 3 legend; 5 legend total. No bonuses for EA - Water though.
Not a problem!
If we go EA - Water -> Avatar 2 we'd wake up and show off our new self, then buy Avatar 3 when we gain 1 Legend from...anything really.
 
"Ah, that's a pretty great roll, I should give them at least the opportunity to get something awesome out of that... huh, still more awesome rolls, and I already gave them that other thing... uh oh..."
I'm trying to clamp down on the impulse to just throw confetti at them and say "you get a thing! And you get a thing! And you get a thing!" when the dice do things like this. I like to think I've resisted the impulse fairly well except for the warped copper armor.
 
Okay so what traits do we get faith is a foregone conclusion at this point since going fear now would cost us at least two turns. I get people want to upgrade avatar first so we should get avatar 3 get the moon orb then use the legend income to buy traits.

I am partial to exploration, humanity, and fish myself moon will be basically free if we do this quest
 
This. I would vote for this. But maybe declare ourselves first, go faith, help a bit, warn that we won't be there next year? Maybe even acquire a legend point from doing... uhh, something?
That's what I'm thinking - get the 1 Legend we need to afford that plan from personally guiding ships, we haven't done that yet.

Only sleep for one turn (no need to chain the Avatar upgrade to it), since I'd rather see how prices have changed and keep abreast of news.
 
I'm trying to clamp down on the impulse to just throw confetti at them and say "you get a thing! And you get a thing! And you get a thing!" when the dice do things like this. I like to think I've resisted the impulse fairly well except for the warped copper armor.

Wait what technology level is being used right now? Is it stone age or something higher?
 
That's what I'm thinking - get the 1 Legend we need to afford that plan from personally guiding ships, we haven't done that yet.

Only sleep for one turn (no need to chain the Avatar upgrade to it), since I'd rather see how prices have changed and keep abreast of news.
Hmm, so we free-buy Faith 1 for 0 years, use the added income to move the rock once, guide ships once, and then sleep for elemental avatar and avatar 3 after that? We should have enough legend then.

Sounds fairly practical. Would leave us a fairly tight 2 years to move the rock when we wake though.
Pure efficiency wise, we should go with:
Faith 1 - 0 years
Elemental Avatar - 1 year
Avatar 2 - 0 years

Wake up, guide ships, move rock, then go back to sleep for 2 years.
For the reason that we'd get more progress moving the rock at Avatar 2 than at Avatar 1, so time spent is not equal
 
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[] Upgrade Plan Do We Even Lift
-[] Faith 0->1 - 0 Legend, 0 years
-[] Elemental Avatar - 4 Legend, 4-3 years
-[] Avatar 1->2 - 2-2 Legend, 0 years
-[] Legend used: 4, Time used: 1 year

Ill vote for this. Getting the sphere back in 2-3 years coz of the higher avatar should maybe give a bigger legend boost.

Also, I know people are seemingly against animal traits but spirit of the fish and aspect of the trickster could probably combine to a decently good exploring build. Faster movement and being able to disguise the fact that your a spirit would make it a hell of a lot easier to explore.
 
Wait what technology level is being used right now? Is it stone age or something higher?
The world of Amber Age is often in flux, catastrophe and recovery constant companions across the eons. Few gods have stood the test of time long enough to reach the Amber Age or beyond, and the number dwindles swiftly to none who have stood upon the precipice without soon falling from grace.

Basically, the term 'bombed into the stone age' is applied literally in wars between higher gods, and occurs with a consistency just north of grimdark if it was a major plot element rather than a fantasy setting background. Gaerig discovered an old Chalcolithic metropolis from many, many centuries ago and looted some things from it.
 
Oh damn, got Faith Progress again. Ah well, I suppose the Dice Gods want this. At least there are people still clamoring for merpeople civilization, which requires Chimaera (which unlocks Monsters). Maybe some people would be amenable to producing Monsters...?

Astrology +1
Navigation +1
So now we have Astrology 4 and Navigation 3, which are heading to mortal max. ...These are such ridiculous rolls, did Harzivan even get something like this. There was the Dance Festival, and I think yearly Herbalism checks from that shrine extension, but those were special yearly checks that gave skill ranks simply through sheer quantity of rolls.

even in all your domain there isn't a single thing crafted by mortal hands that didn't sink from the sea
Hm, so this is saying that trying to accumulate stuff in our shoal isn't going to work, right? Because everything that fell into the shoal also fell out of the shoal and into the ocean. The physics behind that probably is from the sheer force of the currents which also make the shoal so dangerous, yeah? So no storing prospective zombie bodies in our Holy Place, unfortunately.

You follow the path of a constellation that stands out to you, one of stars with dimming light and fading history. You read, but do not see, though your imagination fills the missing sensations quite well.

Stone of purest white with runnels of black, perfectly shaped. A house grander than any you have ever seen, for a being much grander than yourself. Stone more plentiful than the ice in the Long Night, arranged like the wooden huts you know. A perfect globe of material you have never seen but reminds you of the moon lies hidden within.

A thousand thousand suffering cries as all things fall to ruin, with tenfold the number echoing a harmony of terrible doom until all cries are silenced forever as [darkness and fire overwhelming writhe upon the words of history, so none may know the folly]. A divine thing, twisted in wretched suffering, lamenting and cursing it's downfall, a [Writhing, all-consuming] eternally until it's final mote of light lies extinguished in the dark, cloying deep. A place of power, of life, and of beauty turned cold, dark crypt.
So, this is the site of a ruined village, where its god was killed/forced into a coma when all its worshipers were killed. Furthermore, even if the god became an Old God, something (related to the initial cataclysm?) was also present to ensure that the god truly died with no hope of resurrection. Also, the cataclysm that broke the land apart had someone throw a (god-tier?) Astrology action that destroying all references to what it was. (Is this god? the Baleful Star from last turn? While the [Constellation Heart] is the nearby spirit we know has Astrology, this type of damnatio memoriae isn't something I expect spirit-tier Astrology to be able to do. And the system has been reworked so that Harzivan-type basically-a-Local-God-while-being-a-Spirit shenanigan can't happen.)

Nestled and displayed proudly on a strangely shaped platform lies the globe you read of, that you imagined, and even your boundless mind was unprepared for it's splendor, which surely surpasses even the moon's! A perfect sphere, spanning just about an open hand's length, bright even in the dim hall you found it in
Silver! Lots of silver! The last guy who had this almost definitely was at least a Local God, to have that much silver. I wonder what happened to the gold? We found some samples of copper, so we know there was enough Amber to coalesce into enough Electrum to produce enough Silver to make both the Moon Sphere and decay into workable samples of Copper. And Electrum decays into equal quantities of Gold and Silver. Was it traded away? Taken before we could get here? I would expect the unchanging nature of Gold to preserve it far longer than the mutable Silver, after all, no matter how much Ambrosia was spent into making the Moon Sphere. Especially in this corrosive environment!

For those don't remember, Silver has the traits of Change & Mutation. Specifically, something that's in long contact with Silver alters the nature of the it, and Silver naturally decays/tarnishes into Copper. (Probably. Harzivan never got to the point where that was really expected.) Furthermore, Silver can also be changed into other materials, like Mercury, in some process Harzivan never replicated.

More relevantly, Silver has a natural resonance with Astrology (i.e. the Silver Lion trait would have given Harzivan +1 Astrology) and the Moon. With the symbolism of Change, I would expect, that with the Moon Sphere, those rituals Gaerig's stumbling into the past turns was receive a power-boost (if, probably, not a control boost, especially if she isn't able to change its position fast enough to synchronize with the sky).

You think you cry, though the sea makes knowing impossible, as you reluctantly leave with your booby prize, the ruined garment.
Oh poor Gaerig!

Minor Spirit of Exploration (+1 Survival, +1 Navigation, +1 Trade): 3 Legend
This is the trait I really really want! Boosts our explorations and travelling skills, which hopefully incentivizes us towards those actions instead of micromanaging pseudo-Civ.

[] Drink deeply of the Ambrosia of creation, reveling in the heady sensation and forgetting what you do not care for. Forget [skill].
-[] Expend <X> Ambrosia reveling
So, since we have extra Ambrosia handy, can we forget Fishing? It's mostly useless for us, for the time being, since we don't want to muscle in on Saiga's worshiper base, yet?

Gained Quest - Labor of the Moon-Sphere (Get the Moon-Sphere to your shoal, where it can be properly displayed)
Mood of the Village is now Expectant (The people await your declaration, the continued confusion on your nature is making them further divided)
So we all are agreed we simply must get the Moon Sphere?

Alternatively:
[] Upgrade Plan Tiny But Stronk
-[] Faith 0->1 - 0 Legend, 0 years
-[] Elemental Avatar - 4 Legend, 4-3 years
-[] Avatar 1->2 - 2-2 Legend, 0 years
-[] Avatar 2->3 - 3-1 Legend, 1 years
-[] Legend used: 6, Time used: 3 years
@veekie, may I remind you (for argument purposes and to persuade others, if nothing else) that Avatar 3 is the minimum we need to have for us to create demispirits/Monsters (unless @Powerofmind changed that?). Because, if you put up a plan that'll get us to making demispirits early and consistently, you'll have my vote.

(Also! @veekie and everybody else that had Exploration in their plans/arguments, thank you for getting us the Moon Sphere!)
 
Hmm, so we free-buy Faith 1 for 0 years, use the added income to move the rock once, guide ships once, and then sleep for elemental avatar and avatar 3 after that? We should have enough legend then.

Sounds fairly practical. Would leave us a fairly tight 2 years to move the rock when we wake though.
We buy Faith and do the guiding in one year (this one), sleep the next turn for EA+Avatar, and have four for the movement, no?

Edit: Ah, just saw your edit. Yup.
 
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@veekie I actually think were overblowing how hard it would be to do this. See we haven't actually gone superhard on raising DE before have we? Look at the plans we've done

[X] Roil Waters - You bend the waters to your command against your enemies, sending larger waves at the settlement near you, or creating deadly sprays and whirlpools that will capsize any boat they dare put upon the surface of your waters. Costs: 5 DE
[X] Calm Waters - You calm the waves and direct the currents for those under your care, ensuring the boats that travel your surface are safe and see greater success in their endeavors. Costs: 5 DE
[X] Plan Pandemonious Curiosity
[X] Study Stars - Study the skies and stars, seeking patterns that will tell you what was, what is, and what may yet be.
-[X] Reflecting Pool - Dedicate greater efforts to studying the still sea and the strange energy you encountered. Costs: 16 DE (reserves 2 uses of Calm Waters)
[X] Learn from locals - Mimic and observe the villagers, to grow closer to them. Costs: 3 DE
-[X] x4
X] Plan Explore For Advantages
[X] Study Stars - Study the skies and stars, seeking patterns that will tell you what was, what is, and what may yet be.
-[X] Read the Past - Look beyond yourself to a time before. The world is old and storied, and secrets are buried in history. Helps develop rituals. Costs: 12 DE
[X] Wander the Depths - Travel away from your shoal to explore the deeper places. Costs: 10 DE
[X] Calm Waters** - You calm the waves and direct the currents for those under your care, ensuring the boats that travel your surface are safe and see greater success in their endeavors. Costs: 5 DE
In not a single one have we focused on raising DE. We've focused more on doing our own thing instead. How about instead of worrying how to increase Avatar or Influence we try and raise DE instead?

[]Unforgotten Power
[] Roil Waters** - You bend the waters to your command against your enemies, sending larger waves at the settlement near you, or creating deadly sprays and whirlpools that will capsize any boat they dare put upon the surface of your waters. Costs: 5 DE
-[] x2
[] Calm Waters** - You calm the waves and direct the currents for those under your care, ensuring the boats that travel your surface are safe and see greater success in their endeavors. Costs: 5 DE
[] Guide the Ships - Guide and navigate the boats in person, sending them where they need to be. Costs: 6 DE
-[] x2
[] Bless Petitioner for Sacrifices - Expend some of your DE to empower those who come to your shrine or pray to you in exchange for more offerings. Current Skills that can be blessed: Astrology, Navigation.
-[] Expend <2> DE on petitioners

This would get us double what we have recieved so far simply by including twice as many more actions that affect the populace at large as any other plan we've done so far
 
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Well, I will take one last shot at this.

[] Plan Terror of the Depths

[] Fear 0->1
[]Minor Aspect of the Crustacean (+2 Melee, Increased wound threshold): 2 Legend

[] Declare yourself Gaerig, spirit of the sea, and threaten destruction! Costs: 5 DE
[] Roil Waters** - You bend the waters to your command against your enemies, sending larger waves at the settlement near you, or creating deadly sprays and whirlpools that will capsize any boat they dare put upon the surface of your waters. Costs: 5 DE
--[] X2
[] Study Stars - Study the skies and stars, seeking patterns that will tell you what was, what is, and what may yet be.
-[] Read the Future - Look forward to what has not yet been, but may yet be. Will aid you in a number of ways during the turn, and warn you of potential dangers. Costs: 8 DE
[] Bless Petitioner for Sacrifices - Expend some of your DE to empower those who come to your shrine or pray to you in exchange for more offerings. Current Skills that can be blessed: Astrology, Navigation.
-[] Expend 5 DE on petitioners

This is your last chance if you are at all interested in fear people. The voting block will never let us turn back once we make that first Faith purchase. This plan gives us a firm method of defending ourselves, some foreknowledge about what is to come, and a chance to change our destiny away from being another human-faith build that is absolutely coming down the pike. Just look at the lead Faith advocates, Human ALWAYS comes up from them shortly after talk of Faith.

We can get outselves into fear and THEN get the stone with the DE we harvest from terror.
 
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@veekie, may I remind you (for argument purposes and to persuade others, if nothing else) that Avatar 3 is the minimum we need to have for us to create demispirits/Monsters (unless @Powerofmind changed that?). Because, if you put up a plan that'll get us to making demispirits early and consistently, you'll have my vote.
That was kind of the thing. I was talking about making lots of demispirits early due to having a source of cheap ambrosia, so that we can fully colonize the sea(especially at the current point, where the only trait they CAN inherit are Water breathing enablers).

Plus demispirit legend reactor. Even if it got nerfed, the sooner you start it the better the payoff.
We buy Faith and do the guiding in one year (this one), sleep the next turn for EA+Avatar, and have four for the movement, no?

Edit: Ah, just saw your edit. Yup.
Was actually thinking to buy EA+Avatar first THEN guide, since we can haul the rock more efficiently then. I'm not sure how much of a margin we have, but even one more year with Strong Adult strength rather than teenage girl strength would make a big difference in how far we can get it.

Though it would be hilarious if we overkilled it at Avatar 3, just picking up the whole thing and dragging it :p
 
Well, I will take one last shot at this.

[] Plan Terror of the Depths

[] Ocean Affinity - Waves (Push and Pull, High and Low, forever lapping at the earth and reclaiming the land into the sea): 3 Legend

[] Declare yourself Gaerig, spirit of the sea, and threaten destruction! Costs: 5 DE
[] Roil Waters** - You bend the waters to your command against your enemies, sending larger waves at the settlement near you, or creating deadly sprays and whirlpools that will capsize any boat they dare put upon the surface of your waters. Costs: 5 DE
--[] X2
[] Study Stars - Study the skies and stars, seeking patterns that will tell you what was, what is, and what may yet be.
-[] Read the Future - Look forward to what has not yet been, but may yet be. Will aid you in a number of ways during the turn, and warn you of potential dangers. Costs: 8 DE
[] Bless Petitioner for Sacrifices - Expend some of your DE to empower those who come to your shrine or pray to you in exchange for more offerings. Current Skills that can be blessed: Astrology, Navigation.
-[] Expend 5 DE on petitioners

This is your last chance if you are at all interested in fear people. The voting block will never let us turn back once we make that first Faith purchase. This plan gives us a firm method of defending ourselves, some foreknowledge about what is to come, and a chance to change our destiny away from being another human-faith build that is absolutely coming down the pike. Just look at the lead Faith advocates, Human ALWAYS comes up from them shortly after talk of Faith.

We can get outselves into fear and THEN get the stone with the DE we harvest from terror.
1. You've used too much DE (28/24) 2. I've already put forth a plan that is very similar, switching out one Roil for Guide the Ships.

Reasoning for that is to create dependency on us and because doing new things creates more Legend that we can spend as well as first time bonus DE. Would you be amicable to that? I do NOT want to go Faith spirit and and need all the help I can get.
 
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