Well on the plus side if he didn't just gain a decent chunk of legend off of this I would be shocked. We might just have to impose on him and make sure he gets some sort of trait that doesn't directly tie into what Heske knows he can do.
Time of the Gods: Into the Amber Age
- Thread starter Powerofmind
- Start date
- Original
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
No good, we must fix this! Gaerig must found WWF!
See now if we had Goddess of Love like my plan definitely would've given us with 150% certainty, we could've made the Magical Girls next turn.
,,, Also, it it bad if I kinda want to give them Spirit of Death?
- Location
- Hell
Gravekeeper religion is a go?
One of the big things we can do with traits is to tell him to buy traits that aren't Plant/Earth/Law like his father(which basically means he could sleep for it even if he normally doesn't have it visible, provided WE have it visible).
So, what traits can he take that could change him like that?
Not listing traits with no effect on his appearance/disguise.
-Keshketev's Caldera:
--Fire - Contrary to his Plant nature, so potentially barred(though there are plants which take fire to germinate). Will set him in opposition to his father in the future. Due to our arctic environs, he is more compatible with fire than you might think, as the primary use of wood by our people is tinder, and many plants only grow during hot seasons.
--Clay - Congruent with his Plant nature, but makes him more like his father(and thus more recognizable)
--Steam - I'm not sure what a Steam Plant looks like...needs Fire and Water first though.
--Ox - Picking up an animal aspect helps change his looks, and the ox does do sterling work with agriculture.
--Fertility - Congruent with his Plant nature, but easily recognizable.
--Warmth - It's like fire, but comfier. Not very visible though
-Coastal sites only(easily noticed by Heske):
--Fish/Crustacean/Shark/Walrus - Well, certainly looks different. He'd be able to go underwater too, which helps with hiding.
--Octopus - Grants limited shapeshifting and aquatic capability. Tentacles and vines are also thematically similar.
--Polar Bear - Looks different, but doesn't help much with his focuses.
--Spirit of the Sea - Lets him go underwater(with another Water trait), and makes him a spirit of generalized fertility. May be difficult for him to work out a blessing scheme which works well with both unless edible seaweed or algae farming becomes a thing.
--Lake/Sea/Waves/Ocean - See Spirit of the Sea. But not very useful without Classic Water.
Anywhere:
--Owl/Raven - Gives flight. Less recognizable.
--Earth - Makes him MORE recognizable and more like his father
--Water - Congruent with his Plant nature and later crop blessings, but once our children come of age, there's going to be a lot of water spirits in the area. Might let him hide from his father pretty well though, especially if he goes on to specialize in aquatic plants and our civilization spreads along coastal waters after we propagate a second water trait.
--Ice/Snow/Cold - Contrary to his Plant nature, so potentially barred. Good disguise though.
--Motherhood - Not really an option until he has shapeshifting. Certainly a great disguise though...
--Leadership - Makes him MORE similar to his father. Not to mention the friction that'd generate in the pantheon.
--Wind - Leads towards flight, though it's not a strong Plant thing and we're already spawning a Wind god. Helps with crop blessings.
--Light - I'm not sure Gaerig is capable of telling someone to become brighter. Would help his blessings and change his appearance though.
--Obsidian/Silver - Might help him look different enough, but obsidian/silver are not usually associated with plants.
--Rain - See Wind. Better for crop blessings, but not really helping the disguise.
--Law - Gaerig's not going to order this one, and it makes him more like hisfather.
--Snake - Makes him better at escaping, and also poisonous. Some appearance change. Like Octopus, there's a plant link.
--Reindeer - Antlers look like branches? Changes appearance a bit, but not much else.
--Spirit of the Land - Very powerful for his blessings, but makes him even more like his father, so problematic.
--Stars/Night/Darkness - Changes looks, but no synergy with plants.
--Mischief - Grants shapeshifting and makes him a better liar/escape artist. Probably the most potent trait for getting away with this. But also makes him less reliable for blessings, since...mischief.
So best routes for changing his nature:
-Classical Element - Fire
-Classical Element - Water
-Classical Element - Wind
-Aspect of the Octopus
-Spirit of Mischief
-Spirit of the Sea
Short term, Spirit of Mischief is the most effective. It immediately gives him Trickery and a disguise, so if Heske crosses the sea to yell at us, he'd see this guy who's totally not his son in a dress and a wig(whereas the Moon Mask only gives shapeshifting, but no ability to lie convincingly). However, it's not actually healthy for him, as Spirit of Mischief does not do anything for his DP economy or establishing his worship.
Long term, Spirit of the Sea + Aspect of the Octopus works well. With two aquatic traits, next time daddy comes for him he can just swim for it, and he will also be able to bless the fertility of seaweed(which also boosts the fish). And he'd be able to shapeshift.
So what I'd do as a general game plan:
-Immediate
--Teach him Trickery skill. Costs us some time, but should be easy to pick up.
--Lend him the Moon Mask. Together with the skill, he should be able to pull it off.
These two gives him the option to evade Heske's attention, at least for the short term.
-Long term
--Tell him to pick up Aspect of the Octopus. Pretty cheap for him I'd think, as he doesn't have any visible animal aspects, and it gives him the ability to disguise himself, so we can take the mask back.
--Tell him to pick up Spirit of the Sea. This lets him expand to underwater domains together with the aspect. This requires The Aquatic People to be a thing first, or he'd find blessings sparse.
These two should both significantly change his appearance AND puts him in a completely different domain from Heske. The odds of them meeting are slim.
Noting that we don't actually know his trait spread so this could all be pointless because he's already at cap or something.
So, what traits can he take that could change him like that?
Not listing traits with no effect on his appearance/disguise.
-Keshketev's Caldera:
--Fire - Contrary to his Plant nature, so potentially barred(though there are plants which take fire to germinate). Will set him in opposition to his father in the future. Due to our arctic environs, he is more compatible with fire than you might think, as the primary use of wood by our people is tinder, and many plants only grow during hot seasons.
--
--Steam - I'm not sure what a Steam Plant looks like...needs Fire and Water first though.
--Ox - Picking up an animal aspect helps change his looks, and the ox does do sterling work with agriculture.
--Fertility - Congruent with his Plant nature, but easily recognizable.
--Warmth - It's like fire, but comfier. Not very visible though
-Coastal sites only(easily noticed by Heske):
--Fish/Crustacean/Shark/Walrus - Well, certainly looks different. He'd be able to go underwater too, which helps with hiding.
--Octopus - Grants limited shapeshifting and aquatic capability. Tentacles and vines are also thematically similar.
--Polar Bear - Looks different, but doesn't help much with his focuses.
--Spirit of the Sea - Lets him go underwater(with another Water trait), and makes him a spirit of generalized fertility. May be difficult for him to work out a blessing scheme which works well with both unless edible seaweed or algae farming becomes a thing.
--Lake/Sea/Waves/Ocean - See Spirit of the Sea. But not very useful without Classic Water.
Anywhere:
--Owl/Raven - Gives flight. Less recognizable.
--
--Water - Congruent with his Plant nature and later crop blessings, but once our children come of age, there's going to be a lot of water spirits in the area. Might let him hide from his father pretty well though, especially if he goes on to specialize in aquatic plants and our civilization spreads along coastal waters after we propagate a second water trait.
--Ice/Snow/Cold - Contrary to his Plant nature, so potentially barred. Good disguise though.
--
--
--Wind - Leads towards flight, though it's not a strong Plant thing and we're already spawning a Wind god. Helps with crop blessings.
--Light - I'm not sure Gaerig is capable of telling someone to become brighter. Would help his blessings and change his appearance though.
--Obsidian/Silver - Might help him look different enough, but obsidian/silver are not usually associated with plants.
--Rain - See Wind. Better for crop blessings, but not really helping the disguise.
--
--Snake - Makes him better at escaping, and also poisonous. Some appearance change. Like Octopus, there's a plant link.
--Reindeer - Antlers look like branches? Changes appearance a bit, but not much else.
--Spirit of the Land - Very powerful for his blessings, but makes him even more like his father, so problematic.
--Stars/Night/Darkness - Changes looks, but no synergy with plants.
--Mischief - Grants shapeshifting and makes him a better liar/escape artist. Probably the most potent trait for getting away with this. But also makes him less reliable for blessings, since...mischief.
So best routes for changing his nature:
-Classical Element - Fire
-Classical Element - Water
-Classical Element - Wind
-Aspect of the Octopus
-Spirit of Mischief
-Spirit of the Sea
Short term, Spirit of Mischief is the most effective. It immediately gives him Trickery and a disguise, so if Heske crosses the sea to yell at us, he'd see this guy who's totally not his son in a dress and a wig(whereas the Moon Mask only gives shapeshifting, but no ability to lie convincingly). However, it's not actually healthy for him, as Spirit of Mischief does not do anything for his DP economy or establishing his worship.
Long term, Spirit of the Sea + Aspect of the Octopus works well. With two aquatic traits, next time daddy comes for him he can just swim for it, and he will also be able to bless the fertility of seaweed(which also boosts the fish). And he'd be able to shapeshift.
So what I'd do as a general game plan:
-Immediate
--Teach him Trickery skill. Costs us some time, but should be easy to pick up.
--Lend him the Moon Mask. Together with the skill, he should be able to pull it off.
These two gives him the option to evade Heske's attention, at least for the short term.
-Long term
--Tell him to pick up Aspect of the Octopus. Pretty cheap for him I'd think, as he doesn't have any visible animal aspects, and it gives him the ability to disguise himself, so we can take the mask back.
--Tell him to pick up Spirit of the Sea. This lets him expand to underwater domains together with the aspect. This requires The Aquatic People to be a thing first, or he'd find blessings sparse.
These two should both significantly change his appearance AND puts him in a completely different domain from Heske. The odds of them meeting are slim.
Noting that we don't actually know his trait spread so this could all be pointless because he's already at cap or something.
I would be incredibly cautious about pushing him towards fire when we are currently enraged at a nearby fire/light spirit. Light seems like a very easy jump to make after you get fire, especially when you are trying to make more plants for your people. If we start him on the path to picking up both of these things might get messy.
Until we see what he actually has I am not in a huge rush to decide what to push onto him, or even if we have to push anything onto him at all. So long as we relocate him far away from Heske we will at least have a decent chunk of time. He can't come over to visit and investigate our lands trivially after all. He is a giant after all, so walking over would be noticeable to the center warlike nation who would almost certainly see it as a challenge.
On that note, the two sides might already be fighting. Heske's war god rolled quite poorly right as his pantheon head's hated kid was escaping. He might have tried to follow him and started a war all on his own. It sounds fitting for a major error in judgement from a war spirit. If the bloodied man wasn't between us I might be more concerned about Heske wandering down or the warmaker spirit coming snooping around, but we have a nice little barricade there.
Seeing that Heske has a warmaker honestly makes me kind of jealous. Everyone except maybe Shosho and us have one after all. I think if it is at all possible we should try to guide our new child into including that in his portfolio. He has some humanity after all, and traits for making combat kids. It will be awhile for that latter bit, but it might be worthwhile to keep the idea in mind as time goes by.
- Location
- Hell
Hiss
I was all on board for this until this part. Gaerig will have Octopus Aspect first
Let him have Snake so he can go the herbalism/healer route.
Naw, keep in mind that Shoshoan IS innate Fire/Light and both the [Element] Avatars, which really pisses Gaerig off, but Keshketev HAS Fire, which Gaerig is like "oh, cool, you have hotsprings", while Attrouska HAS Light, which Gaerig is like "interesting fact".
As such I doubt that taking Fire or Light will make him hostile to Gaerig. I do however, doubt that Gaerig would even have the option to suggest that he gain Fire or Light without Capricious One, so it ultimately got dropped from my final solution.
I personally feel there is a risk of Heske showing up in the next 1-3 turns. It's not actually that difficult for him to walk over, precisely because he's so huge that the straits are potentially within hiking distance for him.
And my immediate action doesn't affect his traits, just teach him how to lie(Skill Training: Trickery) and lend him the Mask.
We can figure out the trait solution after we assess him as I've said at the end.
Uh...he's not. Heske is on the mainland, visible across the sea from our villages.
Our new kid has the right build for it I think. But nobody in our pantheon knows War at all, so we can't teach him War.
We can learn Writing and teach him that to fake War maybe?
Uh...missing the point. Snake doesn't do what's needed. Shapeshifting is Octopus only as far as known aspects are concerned. Either that or Mischief, but Mischief is more expensive for a Spirit of PlantsHiss
I was all on board for this until this part. Gaerig will have Octopus Aspect first
Let him have Snake so he can go the herbalism/healer route.
We also already have a healer on the way to ascension
Besides, the more Octopus around the easier an Octopus ritual should be to accomplish.
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Calanor
Not so silly Silicoid
[X] Appear to him and guide him home. Guiding the Bastard to his new home with you, you will try to settle him in your lands.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
Saitev has War 4.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
Saitev has War 4.
- Location
- Israel
[X] Appear to him and guide him home. Guiding the Bastard to his new home with you, you will try to settle him in your lands.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
- Location
- Germany
[X] Appear to him and guide him home. Guiding the Bastard to his new home with you, you will try to settle him in your lands.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
Oh I had misread that situation. That makes ALOT more sense.
[X] Appear to him and guide him home. Guiding the Bastard to his new home with you, you will try to settle him in your lands.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
ts, even if they'd have been slower.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
ts, even if they'd have been slower.
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It would be a little bit challenging to sail from the middle of our island to the coast
.... WE have more advanced boats. THEY have a raft. In the ocean.
Uh, our boats are leather, 1-2 man sized vessels. They would not survive the trip across to the mainland. They have a raft capable of carrying a few dozen people.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Clealry we must spawn a new breed of monsters that can be used as boats to travel to the mainland.
Yes, that is my solution to everything.
Yes, that is my solution to everything.
@mastigos
Compare
A 2-3 person dugout canoe is classy.
Our biggest boat carries two youngish hunting type people and one load of fish.
This is their boat.
It carries a handful(say 4-5) of youths, some(2-3) old women and one spirit.
They actually have rope(that's corded grass), while we're using rawhide and leather to bind everything.
Compare
This is our boat.
A 2-3 person dugout canoe is classy.
Our biggest boat carries two youngish hunting type people and one load of fish.
This is their boat.
It carries a handful(say 4-5) of youths, some(2-3) old women and one spirit.
They actually have rope(that's corded grass), while we're using rawhide and leather to bind everything.
- Location
- La La Land
[X] Appear to him and guide him home. Guiding the Bastard to his new home with you, you will try to settle him in your lands.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
We're adopting the Bastard. And no one fucks with mama Gaerig's children.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
We're adopting the Bastard. And no one fucks with mama Gaerig's children.
- Location
- The Void
[X] Appear to him and guide him home. Guiding the Bastard to his new home with you, you will try to settle him in your lands.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
Our Son Now.
-[X] Draw him and his raft into your Divine Realm with you, then guide him to the pool within your Temple. Keep the raft, it's interesting.
-[X] Scatter logs, grass and leathers across the sea around where you took him, so it seems like the raft had been struck by foul weather.
Our Son Now.
Honestly I'd say the biggest difference is that while ours have better craftsmanship, they simply have better access to wood.
...REALLY stretching there.
Our boats are lightweight, fragile, and have a maximum size capable of holding one or two people.
The most advanced boat is a dugout, a single log whittled into a reasonably seaworthy shape and then you dig/carefully burn a hole into the boat using a great deal of time and manual labor, to house a few people. OR a canoe, made using the bone and leather of larger animals in a single piece. This is durable enough not to be casually broken or sunken by anything heavier than calm seas, but still easily capsized, as we've done with Saiga's vessel.
The most common boat is made of leather strapped to a bone frame. Their sole merits are that they float and are light. They have great difficulty going further than near-coastal waters. This type of boat is not strictly speaking watertight.
Our boats are not ocean-worthy for more than a mile out to sea, if at that. The most common boats can't even go out that far, as they aren't even fully watertight when burdened. They're purely coastal vessels that move up and down the coast.
Their boat(comparing to our dugouts/canoes, because this is likely to be their best vessel rather than their mook vessels) is stable enough to cross miles of ocean, carrying five times the load of our boats.
It's comprised of composite construction when our boats are single piece.
Yes, they have more wood, but we also have wood(we actually rely on wood to survive the winter). Saitev has an actual forest over in his parts, and the dugout requires a fair sized tree to create compared to a raft, which can be build out of multiple smaller trees.
The main challenge here is each of the parts.
-Figuring out rope takes innovating with grass. To braid and weave them into a stronger form. Keshketev probably knows about rope, and if the Essence Drinkers get domesticated, I suspect we'd have silk ropes for our best work. You need rope over rawhide since it can be extended indefinitely, whereas rawhide or leather strips have a maximum length limited by the source animal(which means you're also scrapping good leather), discouraging the heavy use of long bindings. Rawhide also rots and loses strength pretty fast when wet compared to vegetable fibers.
-Figuring out log and plank construction requires significant amounts of wood to work into structures and some spirits interested in blessing the process. It means the possibility of building larger structures than single piece materials allow for. There's probably some of this already, but lack of rope, lack of cutting tools for joints, and obviously lack of nails means it can't progress.
-Assembling a raft itself requires the above two in practice enough for someone to try out the floatation qualities of lashed logs and branches.
Calling our vessels better made is a little like comparing log rollers to a wagon. We spend a lot more effort to get less done.
On the other hand! With the Divine Realm enhancing Innovation, we can spend a Decree slot to make people go in there to make something new...well, once we stabilize it with amenities. For now we can maybe show it off to Seski
This might be unnecessary. I am willing to bet that at least one of the worshippers with the bastard knows how the boat works. If I was the mother I would want to send a sailor with him to make sure his avatar actually reached us after all.