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Threads Of Destiny(Eastern Fantasy, Sequel to Forge of Destiny)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Was doing my re read and came across a fun line in the RR bonus chapter about the beginning of the Beast Kings' War-

"Spring was coming, and with it, war."

And I suddenly had the idea that Hanyi and Ling Qi were both doing the endings of winter's ending sort of thing. (not quite spring but definitely heralds of it.)

From that I wonder what our insights are going to be about, when we look at what happens after base wants like comfort, community, and knowledge are satisfied.
 
The Laurent said:
Song Of Eleven Princes: A Basic Introduction

Accessed 4/13/2788

The Song of Eleven Princes is a series of manuscripts, poems, songs, and plays that have been cataloged and codified by the famed mortal-born artist and cultivator, Fai Lin, who later took up the name by adoption of Ling Lin. It tells the story of the dying days of the Third Dynasty, and the rise of the Fourth, though the tales selected and their presentation have obvious biases that are the subject even to this day of a great deal of controversy. It begins with the "Spring in Fall" Cycle, which outlined the ascension to the ducal seat of Cai Renxiang, the travails of the small baronial Lo family near the Golden whose scion would become the Bandit King and Hero of Mortals Lo Tzu, the splits among the Zheng, and sundry other difficulties which make it an era of great fascination to both writers and poets alike.

It then covered the rise of several rebellions in the 303rd year of the reign of the last ruler of the Mu Dynasty, the revelation of deep spiritual corruption in the heart of the Imperial Capital, and the chaos that followed.

To note for the historical rather than the literary record, what followed was a series of conflicts and wars lasting 148 years, made all the more brutal by the new techniques of war and peace, including the Xuan Land Battleships, the creation of the Red Flower Path which increased greatly the number of low-level Cultivators who could become part of the army, and several key advancements of the Art beyond the scope of this introduction.

It ended in the ascension of the Cai Dynasty, the rise of the Ducal Lings, the underground settling of Zhengism as an ideology whose anti-imperial and communal roots would grow and shift to become vital in the much later Period of Two Republics, and would be the last such civil war before the dawn of the modern age. It would also be a herald to new ways of warfare and society that shaped and defined the next few thousand years.

The Song of the Eleven Princes is one of three famed treatments of the era, the other two being a pro-Lo Tzu cycle Romance of Burnt Banners that remained incomplete after his death at the Battle of Five Dragons And Six Armies, and a pro-Jin work known as the Saga of Sharpened Blades. Ironically, considering the extent to which the Saga of Sharpened Blades portrays her as one of its arch-villains, Duchess Ling prevailed upon Cai Renxiang to leave it unbanned. While the differing cycles agree on a number of fundamental facts, their diverging opinions make them a fascinating subject in contrast. Indeed, the only major overlap is that both exalt the deeds of Gan Guangli, later to become a much-honored Great Spirit.

As a whole, the story is fantastical but the details exacting, and the rise and fall of great Princes and dangerous enemies make it a staple of Celestial storytelling to this day. The author who brought it together predicted and defined the new order even in its early days, while sharply pointing at the old order. Often in works deriving from these cycles, there are names, almost like of a Domain, given to certain events as a signpost for imagining and reimagining the content.

Thus writers speak of the March of the Land Battleships, and decades later the eventual act of the Xuan turning in the last two decades of the civil strife towards an alliance with the Cai. In the Songs, at least, this is portrayed as a brilliant innovation, even if it is at least initially turned partially against the ambitions of the Cai.

The Flight of Bai Meizhen, treated three different ways in each of the sagas, gives differing glimpses as to the nature of the establishment of the "Emerald Bai" and the eventual reconquest and alliance that would be known to history as the Cai-Bai-Xuan Alliance. In Songs, the emotional content is emphasized, as is the internal politics to an extent ignored by the other two cycles, especially in Banner. It is only in Songs that scholars can learn the otherwise half-forgotten fact that the ties involved were as much ones of old friendship as political scheming, and understand the complex dance of the Ultra-Conservative Meizhen Loyalists standing with her against the Bai Reformists in the matter of her children.

It is only largely in Banner and Songs that we can see the rise of Zhengism as a significant factor, with both treating it seriously though in very different ways. Banner emphasizes the old ties to the Zheng family, while Song emphasizes, likely under the encouragement of the Ling Clan, the communal aspect of this call for devolution of authority and Cultivation alike, and other proposals rooted deeply in a number of ideals of the past and yet creating something new whose influence, while crushed by both Lo Tzu and the Dragon Army, would resurge in the centuries to come.

It is only in Songs that we can understand the Field of Frozen Dreams outside Xiangman. The now nameless Traitor City's assault upon the heart of the Cai, at a moment of hopelessness during the Year of Sixty-Six White Flowers, is often given relatively short mention, as the victory of the desperate last stand left it seemingly irrelevent to the cycles of the Jin except for a bitter comment on Sagas about the 2nd White Ling. But in Songs it is one of the most moving and deeply controversial sections of the work, most of all for how it, in contradiction to the mores of the time, sees something almost tragic in Ling Biyu's desperate ascension from the peak of the 7th Realm into the 8th, done to save her sister during the last desperate days of the campaign. "She made a choice/and in choosing was chosen/And in choosing, always there are things Lost" so one poem in the cycle goes.

It is also one of the most complimentary, nuanced, and complete takes on the Red Flower Path one has from the time, as the Banners was left incomplete.

For those who wonder what the Red Flower Path is, as its name has changed several times between now and then, it is not like the Yellow Flower Oath named for it, which is seen even by some non-traditionalists to this day as a severe warping of the Way. Instead, it is a set of techniques that can bring almost anyone of adult or near-adult age from mortality to the first stage of Red and Gold in almost precisely a year. It can also do so quite cheaply, relative to how difficult it would be to raise someone of modest or near-nonexistent talent and skill to the rank. Initially dismissed as at least partially irrelevant, Lo Tzu, the Bandit King who came from the sandy wastes with great power, found that a combination of this and a year or two of regular training could create vast armies of modest quality but exceptional quantity, and free up resources and people for creating elite units and concentrating powerful Cultivators. The technique encouraged his early growth, until its adoption first by the Cai, and later and far more reluctantly by the other major 'Princes' neutralized its advantages and restored the bloody stalemate of the middle decades of the period.

However, it is in Songs that we see explored feelingly the emotional and practical uses of the Red Flower Path, the way that it could expand the health and well-being of artisans, workers and more, and the way that--especially as given out nigh-universally in the capital--it transformed Cai society and helped secure the true foundation, more than any one or even four White Cultivators, of eventual Cai victory.

Of all of this, writing nearly a century later, Ling Lin merely writes, "It is triumph that defines these things, and the strongest links can be shattered if the other links are weak."

One could find a thousand such transcendent lines and moments in the Songs, and though the end is one that all three agree on, that eleven Princess became one Empress, the stories emphasize the fact that the Way is never fixed aned never set and never able to be predicted, and that change is constant and ends never permanent.

As a work of literature, as a guide to one's Way, as a scholarly source, and indeed as a fun read, this site will hope to introduce you to the genre that is the Song of Eleven Princes, with this introduction merely being a teaser.

For a review of the translations of the Songs of Eleven Princes, see here

For competing historical analysis of the first Duchess Ling and recent scholarly revaluation, see here.

For information on Lo Tzu and his own Romance of Burnt Banners, left incomplete by his court poet after his death, see here.

For an evaluation of the Sagas of the Jin-faction, see our sister site here.




A/N: (First note, this was written early in Turn 17, and though I modified it I'm keeping stuff involving the Mu vague and not addressing whatever Jiao has really told us about the new Empress.)

Not sure whether this will go on, but it's just an imagined far-distant look back on what's already a far-distant future. It was fun thinking of things that could go completely bananas, though I do wanna keep some mystery about what is what in terms of a lot of this being just… an internet website's brief attempt to get people hyped up for an ancient (possibly foreign-language) cycle.

It is absolutely a take on Romance of the Three Kingdoms, complete with the Saga portraying Cai Renxiang a lot like Cao Coa, and the Romance absolutely being a hyped-up Liu Bei comparison.

It's something of a tragedy, since it's hard to imagine Ling Qi wanting to take part in a massive civil war, and she does all sorts of things that can be easily portrayed in the other two as horrific. It is how life is, Ren's mother never imagined who she would become, not fully, but at the end of a long winter, a new spring begins. New techniques are created that might transform both warfare and peacetime (automation, the Red Flower Path becoming a political football over the next few thousand years similar to healthcare in a sense), and the future is not merely a recreation of the past.

Everyone loves Gan Guangli though, there's not a single account that doesn't at least respect him.
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@yrsillar New omake
 
Adhoc vote count started by Elsecaller on Mar 25, 2023 at 1:49 PM, finished with 55 posts and 36 votes.
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Doramas said:
To subtly alter the construction plans so the workers go just a bit deeper than it's safe and other small mistakes speaks of a detailed knowledge of said plans and the ability to modify them without the changes being noticed by other people reviewing them.
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I think that's overstating the difficulty. There are a lot of people here, so it's easy to slip in observers. And it's not necessary to know everything to throw something out of whack.
 
We have a n Indigo and a Violet spook providing oversight. To have infiltrators slip past that would be exceptional. That's not the sort of thing Shu Yue is going to let slide as a "test".

I think it's far more likely that some inside imperial faction is messing with things, using their official position as cover.
 
TedBear said:
We have a n Indigo and a Violet spook providing oversight. To have infiltrators slip past that would be exceptional. That's not the sort of thing Shu Yue is going to let slide as a "test".

I think it's far more likely that some inside imperial faction is messing with things, using their official position as cover.
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Its not too difficult to analyze.
Lets start with the means of achieving this:
1) Alter the survey data

This requires either high realm interference, because the survey data is derived from high realm senses, or else subverted surveyor or geomancer. As Shu Yue remains limited by not actually having the authority to rifle through high noble heads freely, if someone is doing it this way, it has to be a stakeholder.

This is unlikely however, because the Polar Nation is ALSO doing their own surveys and a simple data mismatch would blow the whole thing.

2) Alter the blueprints, the workers will carry them out.

This is relatively easier to accomplish, you don't need to doctor all the blueprints, only some of the ones going to the fallible Red and Yellow workers, and only in small ways. Ling Qi could have done this as a Yellow herself.

But its improbable because Shu Yue, the Ministry and the Crowfathers are keeping an eye on things, unless again, its someone with the authority to handle messages, and with a status that puts them above casual probing.

3) Subvert the workers

This would be rather challenging to accomplish, since they can be freely probed without issue, unless you gas them with intoxicants while they work, and just leave random chance to do the damage because they can't think straight.

4) Directly excavate, the workers are not high realms with mathematically precise senses and photographic memory, if you dig where they dig, they can't tell the difference. Heck, you could slip in while they work and slip out after to let their activity mask your presence.

This would normally be difficult to accomplish, any cultivator would stick out on a land survey, but Xia Ren's Mountain-to-Mesa kata generated a tremendous amount of spiritual noise, I dare say a Green or Cyan keeping their exertions low, and approaching via earth glide could do so, but would probably die to the environment unless they had a secure base of operation underground.

TLDR - Only two plausible culprits at present
A) A stakeholder decided to commit sabotage despite the risks to them and theirs if their interference can be traced. Accusations of such must be done carefully, these are duke and count backed individuals moving around here, even if it was correct, it could be dangerous to acknowledge.

B) An Ith-ia operation team approached the site after noticing the whole screaming wounded mountain, and set about doing what sabotage they can get away with. As they approach from the underground vector, the wounded mountain itself screens them from casual detection or patrols, and the impurity of the deeps will deflect pursuit by high realms.
 
Altering blue prints might be possible, depending on what kind of "surveyor to worker" route they take.
If they are at any time removed from area looked over by Shu Yue or crowdudes the change could happen them.
For example, if the plans need to go to some office in a nestablished city for archiving and approval, before being sent back.

I don't think that's likely, but it's possible.
Sabotage by an imperial faction either coming after LQ/CRX personally, or objecting to the very idea of diplomacy with non imperials strongly enough to take the risk.
And it is a risk, because this does not seem like something hard to track down.
 
Don't forget that Shu Yue is mainly there to ensure Cai Renxiang's personal safety, they follow her along. Whenever Cai Renxiang isn't around, the main anti-sneak protection of our operation is the Ministry of integrity's personnel, which is certainly not on the level of Shu yue.
 
True, this is very much a "you can handle this" level problem.
Nothing that threatens CRX's life or the safety of the province.
 
True, which reopens the possibility of worker subversion, since Shu Yue COULD find that sort of thing trivially, but none of the other actors could without melting their brains out their ears.
 
Let's try to think who has the means, opportunity and motives to cause these incidents.

First, let's assume that the MoI's agents and the Count's security personnel aren't incompetent.
It's true that Shu Yue it's in a league all of their own. But their very nature makes it impossible to know when they are observing things. Even if they are there is no guarantee they will inform us if something happens or decide it's something we should solve on our own or suffer the consequences.
It's reasonable to expect the security measures should be thorough and extensive even without Shu Yue.

To sabotage the preparations like this you need the ability to move the hearts quickly and surreptitiously without any of the experts in geomancy noticing. The mountain's disturbance may serve as a cover, but as both Ling Qi and Meng Dan noted, both Meng and Wang geomancers approved the plans. That's, at the minimun, a high green level specialized in geomancy level of ability.
The other incidents may have been orchestrated through an outsider info-gathering, but the displacement of the mountain's heart should have been done in the window after the last survey of their location and the workers starting construction, but before someone came to check on the progress.
That shows a fairly precise understanding of the construction schedules. More than should be able to be gleamed through covert observation. And it shoudn't be so easy to sneak in and adquire the documents. Rememeber, Count clan's level security is nothing like the things Ling Qi has faced herself.
If we also assume that the plans delivered to the workers were tampered with, an insider seems much more likely. Because it's just not modifying them but also determining at which point of the chain nobody will notice the alterations.
In light of that, someone that is a part of or has easy access to the chain of command, but whose orders won't go through capable people who may notice the changes seems the most plausible. A middle supervisor of some kind, then.

I guess it's not impossible for other traitors allied with the Ith-Ia to have infiltrated the Summit and for them to have those bone stealth talisman both Yan Renshu and the Shaman back in Forge had. But it still feels like a stretch.
Yan Renshu was a very particular case. Very few people are going to want to ally themselves with inhuman beings against the Empire. Even less so the personnel brought to the Summit place by the Duchess and the Count clans.
It's also true that the subterranean and impurity nature of the Ith-Ia makes them inherently difficult to detect. But for that very reason a lot of effort and resources must have been placed to monitor the underground.
If the Yth-Ia were capable to bypass all that, they would perform a critical terrorist attack instead of many small harrasments.
After all, the more they act the more chances there are for them to be discovered.

No, an imperial faction against the Summit it the most likely culprit. Which isn't as common as one could think.
Not that many actually want the Summit to fail, not in the sense of devoting resources against it. They just think it's really unlikely to succeed, won't bring many immediate benefits, and any agreement can fall apart at any moment due the Wall's instability.
The prevalent sentiment is mistrust towards the WS, apathy and indifference. The belief that this is all a waste of time, in short.

A heavily imperial oriented person may be against dealing with barbarians by default. The only ones that may fit that are the Diao, Jia and MoI.
Renxiang and GG are taking care of the Diao and Jia, so we don't have much info on their representatives. Even so, the Diao and Jia are also the 2 Count clans more loyal to the Duchess. I can't imagine even a subfaction inside of them going against the Duchess in such a way.
Regarding the MoI, Jiao confirmed us that Cao Chun wouldn't do something like this. I'm inclined to believe him. I guess it's possible a group or individual inside the MoI is the culprit. But if they can slip under the gaze of a renown hero of the MoI, then we are in trouble regardless.
Again, let's assume Cao Chun and his subordinates aren't incompetent enough to miss suspicious activity perpetrated by some of their own.

That leaves us with a motivation of going against Renxiang or Ling Qi in particular. There is only one faction with a -4 rep against Ling Qi: the Meng Weilu Reactionaries. We also know that many of them are against dealing with the WS due to their isolianist tendencies, even if the can't call it "untraditional".

As I see it, based on all the previous points, the most likely suspect is a particularly disgruntled Meng Reactionary that is working as a middling geomancer supervisor in the construction. It fits perfectly.
 
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