The Power(Harry Potter/The Gamer)

You have a Catch-22 there, because it takes months, given an experienced Legimens to practice again, to have any competency in it for normal people.

Unless you tell them about the Gamer first to buff the required stats via grinding, it's effectively just telling them no, because even if they are good friends, they aren't going to volunteer for us to invade their minds on a regular basis to learn how to resist it.
*shrug*
The risk here is greater than the reward. We didn't even tell Dumbledore, because there was a possibility of him telling Snape, and now we're going to trust their unprotected minds with this secret? The party system is nice, but it's not worth the risk of Voldemort getting wind of the Gamer early.

If they really want to know this, we can help them train and give Oaths that we won't ever share whatever we find out. Maybe look into making magical items that help protect the mind as well.
 
*shrug*
The risk here is greater than the reward. We didn't even tell Dumbledore, because there was a possibility of him telling Snape, and now we're going to trust their unprotected minds with this secret? The party system is nice, but it's not worth the risk of Voldemort getting wind of the Gamer early.

If they really want to know this, we can help them train and give Oaths that we won't ever share whatever we find out. Maybe look into making magical items that help protect the mind as well.
Just that making Occlumens a requirement for the information isn't practical.

MUCH easier to tell them to keep the secret by ordinary means and then induct them into our grinding sessions so they can learn Occlumens faster...assuming Hermione doesn't use the accelerated learning to replicate one of her works in the later books to make sure that nobody can spill the secret, even without any Occlumency.

IIRC, it's a contingent Memory charm to blank out certain knowledge until the conditions are met.
 
[X] Make sure your conversation would be secure and explain about being the Gamer.
 
Just that making Occlumens a requirement for the information isn't practical.

MUCH easier to tell them to keep the secret by ordinary means and then induct them into our grinding sessions so they can learn Occlumens faster...assuming Hermione doesn't use the accelerated learning to replicate one of her works in the later books to make sure that nobody can spill the secret, even without any Occlumency.

IIRC, it's a contingent Memory charm to blank out certain knowledge until the conditions are met.
Even if we make a party with them, their advancement won't be as fast as Harry's. After all, they only get a fraction of the Gamer's benefits, mainly the ability to consciously assign points on level-up and the ability to gain XP from killing monsters. If Voldemort wasn't in the castle, I wouldn't mind, but him checking our and our friends' minds as soon as he can is only to be expected.
 
[X] I do not want to lie to you. On the other hand... It is an important secret. Did you know that some wizards can read your thoughts? How about this: I will teach you Occlumency, this is an art that protects your mind from being read. When you can protect your thoughts I will tell you. Deal?

This seems a reasonable compromise.


Though I'm not sure how practical it is to teach it to them, or how much need they have for it. Mind readers are kind of rare, and you can't practice without one(unless we learn to read minds and then practice mind wrestling with our friends, assuming they don't mind us seeing all their private matters) without Gamer breaking the rules. Sure, a lot of them would be interested in poking at Harry, but Neville and Hermione, not so much.

Well, Harry has 1 point in legilimency(or however its spelled?). This would potentially be a good way of grinding that skill. We could even offer to teach legilimency to them too, which would allow Harry to practise shielding his own mind aswell. We want to be able to grind occlumency ourself too.

I also assume that the user can choose what memories to read, so privacy could be dealt with by having Harry try to read something totally unimportant.

Also, if we start having Hermione and Neville in a party with us, then it will quickly become obvious to everyone that they know something. At that point, I could see Snape and possibly even Dumbledore trying to read their minds. Though in truth I worry a bit more about Quirrell/Voldemort. Can Voldemort read minds through Quirrell? Voldemort is someone who we DON'T want learning about this.

Ofcourse the trouble there is that without Gamer boosted grinding, its going to be really hard for those two to learn enough in reasonable timescale. Maybe we could tell them that we will only teach them after they learn occlumency, then wait until first classes with Snape&Quirrell are over (if they are going to mindread our friends, I would assume its at first opportunity). Then invite them to a party and grind occlumency/legilimency like mad?

Is that possible? How big are the advantages of inviting them to a party?
 
[X] I do not want to lie to you. On the other hand... It is an important secret. Did you know that some wizards can read your thoughts? How about this: I will teach you Occlumency, this is an art that protects your mind from being read. When you can protect your thoughts I will tell you. Deal?

You know, it feels like we're voting whether or not to tell people about The Gamer ability every other update.
 
Even if we make a party with them, their advancement won't be as fast as Harry's. After all, they only get a fraction of the Gamer's benefits, mainly the ability to consciously assign points on level-up and the ability to gain XP from killing monsters. If Voldemort wasn't in the castle, I wouldn't mind, but him checking our and our friends' minds as soon as he can is only to be expected.
Hermione is already bullshit on her own though, so she just needed a bit of a boost.

I also assume that the user can choose what memories to read, so privacy could be dealt with by having Harry try to read something totally unimportant.

Probably, based on what we know. It's a fairly large stretch of trust, but possible.

Ofcourse the trouble there is that without Gamer boosted grinding, its going to be really hard for those two to learn enough in reasonable timescale. Maybe we could tell them that we will only teach them after they learn occlumency, then wait until first classes with Snape&Quirrell are over (if they are going to mindread our friends, I would assume its at first opportunity). Then invite them to a party and grind occlumency/legilimency like mad?

Is that possible? How big are the advantages of inviting them to a party?
Fairly big, they can actually gain XP for instance, and spend that towards stat gains when they level. They have to train skills normally, but the ability to artificially raise intelligence and wisdom through fighting monsters would allow Neville to learn at genius rates, and Hermione...she was inventing new spells in first year in canon.

Give her accelerated Int growth and she's going to be a complete monster. I'd personally guess that Hermione will pick up the Legimens/Occlumens combo fastest of our friends, after which it comes down to mental wrestling to mutually build ability there.
 
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Hermione is already bullshit on her own though, so she just needed a bit of a boost.
Occlumency isn't just a matter of being smart, it requires great self-control and ability to rein in your emotions. And while Hermione is very good for her age, this is still a difficult skill that one can't just brute-force. Unless one cheats via Gamer, naturally. This also doesn't take Neville into account, who doesn't have the advantage of bullshit-tier intelligence.

Hermione...she was inventing new spells in first year in canon.
...I can't remember her doing that. Unless you mean the Bluebell Flames? I highly doubt she invented them, it's probably just an obscure spell she found somewhere.
 
She cast a specialized version of reparo on Harry's glasses before she ever even attended a class. Also she said she practiced all her spells at home before ever getting on the train which throws a lot of crap into question...

As for canon party members being able to use skill books? We just don't know, Ji-han was too stupid to check it with anyone who was in his party. Still is.
 
...With this approach, we'll quickly turn Dumbledore into an enemy, or at least make him highly suspicious and thus potentially restrictive.

Think of how this will look to him if he ever catches wind of it: a bright student with skill far beyond his years who keeps his secrets close to heart forms an inner circle (OOC, we've even been discussing the relative usefulness of friendship choices) and has those in it learn occlumency so that they will be better at keeping his secrets. With it being obvious that we'll end up training everyone in that circle in magical and non-magical combat, what message does that send and whom does that behavior resemble? Besides, we have no viable way to teach them occlumency aside from Gamer mechanics, and that defeats the whole purpose.



Now, moving on from that, even just knowing that there is a secret may be enough of a tell for Quirrelmort to not risk letting Harry become a greater threat - it's one thing to know that your opponent has been trained by Alastor Moody and is competent beyond his age; it's entirely another to know that there is a secret beyond that which you are not privy to. This makes telling or even hinting about it to anyone without mental defenses not a bit suicidal. From this perspective, if we were going to tell them, we should have done so during the summer, when we had had the time and opportunity to take precautions.

However, there is another side that's more important to me personally here. Hermione is Harry's first friend and vice versa. Lying is just plain not a way out here. If we lie here, it will come out sooner or later. With that in mind, I would rather let the secret out and deal with that than push her away with distrust.

Hmm... Are there any items or D&D gimmicks that could help keep this secret secret?

P.S. On Occlumency: the idea of using our low-rank Legilimency on our 11 year old friends' immature minds sends shivers through my spine. What the hell, people? They are kids, and they don't have the same perks as Harry to let them shrug off the trauma of repeated mind rape.
 
Occlumency isn't just a matter of being smart, it requires great self-control and ability to rein in your emotions. And while Hermione is very good for her age, this is still a difficult skill that one can't just brute-force. Unless one cheats via Gamer, naturally. This also doesn't take Neville into account, who doesn't have the advantage of bullshit-tier intelligence.
So raise Wisdom, unless she wants to invent Mind Blank from the base HP magic theory, or devise a tinfoil hat enchantment.

@Darklord

That vote won't be counted I think. You need to remove the quotes.
 
Edit: Vote Changed

This isn't the option this update needs... But it's the one it deserves. XD

In all seriousness, I would rather not tell them. I've read so much cruddy fanfiction since I finished the series that it's hard to separate canon from fanon, especially in oft-wanked situations like 'Occlumency'. So, I don't really know to what degree training them will defend them against legilimency from grown, experienced, talented, adult wizards.

I'd prefer something different...but I'll take what I can get that isn't just 'telling them'. That's a bad move. We'd be best off learning a spell like Fidelius or something similarly jumped up on our own, casting it, and then letting them onto the secret.

Yeah, we could help Hermione grind up and replicate her apparently canon feat, but that leaves a window of uncertainty.

Does Moody know how to cast something like what we need? He's the ideal helper for this.
 
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[X] Stick with your accidental magic story.

Telling them is stupid.
Mind-readers abound. Plus they're kids, and Hermione at this point is pretty big on "authority figures know all and are right". I wouldn't put it past her, at this point, to go off and tell Dumbledore. Kids that could quite easily blab.
 
Hermione at this point is pretty big on "authority figures know all and are right"
Not anymore. We actually had to stop her from going on an outraged rant in an earlier turn about non-human rights.

We butterflied that trust away~
But mostly, to make efficient use of Gamer, you need party members at near parity power levels. The longer you put off getting any party members in paranoia, the worse off you are when you finally get around to it.
 
Hmm could we stunt trying to teach her the spell? A tutor skill would be really useful, and when it gets to 100 it will probably upgrade to teacher and allow to teach several people at once.
 
...With this approach, we'll quickly turn Dumbledore into an enemy, or at least make him highly suspicious and thus potentially restrictive.

Exaggeration. In the worst case, we can simply tell him the truth. Heck, it seems likely that we will tell Dumbledore eventually. Moody just told us to make sure he swears an oath to not tell it to anyone else.

Before that however, we should try and get to know him a bit better. Maybe we could try and visit him occasionally. Try to talk to him about Voldemort (Harry knows IC that Dumbledore does not think Voldemort is truly dead and gone) or perhaps ask about some other magic fields like the whole blood-love-barrier thing.

It makes sense to tell Dumbledore IC once he is no longer a complete stranger to us. Right now however, he is a stranger.

Now, moving on from that, even just knowing that there is a secret may be enough of a tell for Quirrelmort to not risk letting Harry become a greater threat - it's one thing to know that your opponent has been trained by Alastor Moody and is competent beyond his age; it's entirely another to know that there is a secret beyond that which you are not privy to.

You do realise that the only reason Voldemort would learn this, is if he tries to read the minds of Harry or his friends and fails. In which case the only other option would be that he tries to read minds, and actually succeeds (and learns everything). Him knowing there is a secret is WAY better than him actually learning what the secret is.

However, there is another side that's more important to me personally here. Hermione is Harry's first friend and vice versa. Lying is just plain not a way out here. If we lie here, it will come out sooner or later. With that in mind, I would rather let the secret out and deal with that than push her away with distrust.

Except that we are not necessarily lying. Telling them that there is a major secret that we want to tell, but are afraid of mind readers is NOT a lie.

P.S. On Occlumency: the idea of using our low-rank Legilimency on our 11 year old friends' immature minds sends shivers through my spine. What the hell, people? They are kids, and they don't have the same perks as Harry to let them shrug off the trauma of repeated mind rape.

First, I would expect that our low rank in legilimency actually makes it less traumatic. Second, Harry can focus on harmless memories. Or heck, use ESP. Calling it "mind rape" is a massive exaggeration. We won't be causing any trauma.
 
She cast a specialized version of reparo on Harry's glasses before she ever even attended a class. Also she said she practiced all her spells at home before ever getting on the train which throws a lot of crap into question...
That's... great? Yes, she's quite intelligent and talented at magic, but we're talking about inventing spells, which is a high-end skill and quite different from adding modifiers to spells.

...With this approach, we'll quickly turn Dumbledore into an enemy, or at least make him highly suspicious and thus potentially restrictive.

Think of how this will look to him if he ever catches wind of it: a bright student with skill far beyond his years who keeps his secrets close to heart forms an inner circle (OOC, we've even been discussing the relative usefulness of friendship choices) and has those in it learn occlumency so that they will be better at keeping his secrets. With it being obvious that we'll end up training everyone in that circle in magical and non-magical combat, what message does that send and whom does that behavior resemble?
That we've been trained in CONSTANT VIGILANCE and don't want the secret to our power divulged in an uncontrolled manner. We've made the decision to hide this from Dumbledore for now, and will hopefully be able to determine whether we can trust him with it in the near future. For now, we need to actually stick with our decision. Because by just telling them right now we might as well tell every unscrupulous Legilimens in the castle (I'm looking at you, Voldemort).

Besides, we have no viable way to teach them occlumency aside from Gamer mechanics, and that defeats the whole purpose.
Party mechanics aren't a certain way to teach them either. It speeds things up for them, but we don't know by how much. What if it still takes weeks/moths, even with increased stats?

Now, moving on from that, even just knowing that there is a secret may be enough of a tell for Quirrelmort to not risk letting Harry become a greater threat - it's one thing to know that your opponent has been trained by Alastor Moody and is competent beyond his age; it's entirely another to know that there is a secret beyond that which you are not privy to. This makes telling or even hinting about it to anyone without mental defenses not a bit suicidal. From this perspective, if we were going to tell them, we should have done so during the summer, when we had had the time and opportunity to take precautions.
We're his prophecised nemesis, and he's going to try and kill us anyway. Heck, he tried to kill Harry in canon, and that guy was as clueless as it gets.

P.S. On Occlumency: the idea of using our low-rank Legilimency on our 11 year old friends' immature minds sends shivers through my spine. What the hell, people? They are kids, and they don't have the same perks as Harry to let them shrug off the trauma of repeated mind rape.
So better to leave them unprotected when Voldemort takes a peek? He's not going to be nearly as careful as Harry.

So raise Wisdom, unless she wants to invent Mind Blank from the base HP magic theory, or devise a tinfoil hat enchantment.
The problem is as always time. Yes, she can raise her (probably low) Wisdom, but how long until her talent for Occlumency is high enough?

And why do we need Hermione to invent any of those spells? Our potential rate of advancement (including skills) is much higher, and them learning Occlumency can be a stop-gap explanation until we devise a better solution like the tin-foil hat or a Mind Blank equivalent.
 
I seriously doubt that Harry is able to read more than surface thoughts at the moment anyway. A deep brain probe...canon already shows us that even for an expert Legilmens, you can't read more than the most superficial thoughts unless you more or less have your target captive, it requires your full concentration, and it cannot be done subtly unless you have an uninterruptible channel(like a Horcrux). Harry broke Snape's mental assault by simply physically assaulting him.

The risks of mind reading at this point are greatly exaggerated, unless they already have our friends captive. In which case Legilimens is probably second to Crucio or Imperius.
 
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