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The Power(Harry Potter/The Gamer)

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Unelemental said:
That's if they actually notice him invading their minds. All Quirrel has to do is face the blackboard and start mining for information.
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They would.

Legilimens is not at all subtle to the target, if you read the Occlumency training sequence in canon. To get any specific information, you do so by pushing an image into the persons's mind, reading what comes up in response, then adjusting what image/thought you push into it until they think of the right thing you want, which you can then read. There's a reason why most of the time interrogations just use Crucio.

Quirrel reading the mind of the class while working on the blackboard is going to get "man he smells funny", "this class is boring", etc.
Except for Hermione who's probably the only one focused on the subject. :p
 
veekie said:
They would.

Legilimens is not at all subtle to the target, if you read the Occlumency training sequence in canon. To get any specific information, you do so by pushing an image into the persons's mind, reading what comes up in response, then adjusting what image you push.

Quirrel reading the mind of the class while working on the blackboard is going to get "man he smells funny", "this class is boring", etc.
Except for Hermione who's probably the only one focused on the subject. :p
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If we tell them about the Gamer, that (and everything related to it, such as grinding together with Harry) is going to be a sizable part of their day-to-day thoughts for a long time.
 
Unelemental said:
If we tell them about the Gamer, that (and everything related to it, such as grinding together with Harry) is going to be a sizable part of their day-to-day thoughts for a long time.
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That supposes a much higher attention span than they've demonstrated?

People mostly think about what they're doing at the moment. Or they don't do it very well if something else occupies their attention so thoroughly. Particularly, finding the right mental image to pull out the thought of Gamer powers requires a depth of knowledge that suggests knowing about the power already.


Hmm, I wonder if putting an earworm song into their heads is cruel and unusual for a distraction....
 
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veekie said:
That supposes a much higher attention span than they've demonstrated?

People mostly think about what they're doing at the moment. Or they don't do it very well if something else occupies their attention so thoroughly. Particularly, finding the right mental image to pull out the thought of Gamer powers requires a depth of knowledge that suggests knowing about the power already.
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People are more likely to think and remember things that provoke higher states of emotion in them. What do you think is more likely, that they focus on Quirrel's highly boring and uninstructive stuttering, or their regular adventures (fighting against monsters) and what else they can do with Harry and his super-secret ability?

Thing is, we don't actually have to fully teach them Occlumency, as you've mentioned. They just need enough to notice when they're being invaded, while we'll be looking for alternative solutions like magical items or special skills.

Hmm, I wonder if putting an earworm song into their heads is cruel and unusual for a distraction....
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While it's a nice thought, a basic ability of an Occlumens is 'clearing their mind'. An earworm is unlikely to occupy their attention for long. :p
 
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veekie said:
They would.

Legilimens is not at all subtle to the target, if you read the Occlumency training sequence in canon. To get any specific information, you do so by pushing an image into the persons's mind, reading what comes up in response, then adjusting what image/thought you push into it until they think of the right thing you want, which you can then read. There's a reason why most of the time interrogations just use Crucio.

Quirrel reading the mind of the class while working on the blackboard is going to get "man he smells funny", "this class is boring", etc.
Except for Hermione who's probably the only one focused on the subject. :p
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No.
Both Dumbledore and Snape, and probably Voldemort, were able to read surface thoughts without a wand, an incantation or alarming the one whose thoughts they read.

Incantation and a wand are necessary if you want to dive deeper or use more power.
Voldemort was able to cast the spell wandless and none verbally.
 
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That was referring to getting anything more than surface thoughts. I was arguing that surface thoughts present a low security risk given just how much crap is going to be there at all times.
Unelemental said:
While it's a nice thought, a basic ability of an Occlumens is 'clearing their mind'. An earworm is unlikely to occupy their attention for long.
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I know, I just want to put a really really annoying song into Quirrelmort's head.

Unelemental said:
Thing is, we don't actually have to fully teach them Occlumency, as you've mentioned. They just need enough to notice when they're being invaded, while we'll be looking for alternative solutions like magical items or special skills.
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That works I guess.
I'd expect Neville to be a lot more accepting of mental wrestling though. He doesn't have much of a self image or any secrets, while Hermione would be quite rightfully wary of any boy asking to read her mind.
 
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[X] Make sure your conversation would be secure and explain about being the Gamer.

Is there actually any real reason why keeping it secret matters?

It plays into the narrative already constructed about Harry as being special, and the only wizards who might be a threat are too ignorant of muggle culture to understand it. Everything we do with it is magic and can be explained as merely advanced magic, which it will be because that explains things in an easier way than The Gamer existing does.


"Oh Harry? He learns magic very fast, defeated a dark wizard before his first day really started and calls his talent by a weird name. Very imaginative."

Not exactly going to get us dragged off by Unspeakables.
 
@Halpo133 - How long would it take to order a book on Occlumency?

The fastest way to teach them Occlumency is skill books. Though I suppose we could get one from the library, I guess, but we haven't confirmed if our copy spell will work to make skill books.
 
[X] Make sure your conversation would be secure and explain about being the Gamer.

A lie wwould damage their freindship and Oclumency would take years to teach.
 
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[X] I do not want to lie to you. On the other hand... It is an important secret. Did you know that some wizards can read your thoughts? How about this: I will teach you Occlumency, this is an art that protects your mind from being read. When you can protect your thoughts I will tell you. Deal?
 
[X] I do not want to lie to you. On the other hand... It is an important secret. Did you know that some wizards can read your thoughts? How about this: I will teach you Occlumency, this is an art that protects your mind from being read. When you can protect your thoughts I will tell you. Deal?
 
[X] Make sure your conversation would be secure and explain about being the Gamer.
-[X] This is an excellent chance for a demonstration and to do an experiment you meant to try. Take the conversation somewhere more private, and use the Copy Charm to make a copy of your first year Defense textbook. Invite the two to your party, and see if Neville can consume the copy. If he can, make another copy and have Hermione consume that one. If not, just have him consume the real thing and you'll order a new one for classes and a copy for Hermione.
--[X] If the experiment worked out, go with them tomorrow to the library and find a book on Occlumency that you can copy for them and have them consume. If it did not, order two copies of books on Occlumency via Owl, rush order.

Teaching them Occlumency will take months or even years. That's too long. Just use skill books to solve the problem.
 
More complete:

[X] Make sure your conversation would be secure and explain about being the Gamer.
-[X] This is an excellent chance for a demonstration and to do an experiment you meant to try. Take the conversation somewhere more private, and use the Copy Charm to make a copy of your first year Defense textbook. Invite the two to your party, and see if Neville can consume the copy. If he can, make another copy and have Hermione consume that one. If not, just have him consume the real thing and you'll order a new one for classes and a copy for Hermione.
--[X] If the experiment worked out, go with them tomorrow to the library and find a book on Occlumency that you can copy for them and have them consume. If it did not, order two copies of books on Occlumency via Owl, rush order.
 
Enjou said:
[X] Make sure your conversation would be secure and explain about being the Gamer.
-[X] This is an excellent chance for a demonstration and to do an experiment you meant to try. Take the conversation somewhere more private, and use the Copy Charm to make a copy of your first year Defense textbook. Invite the two to your party, and see if Neville can consume the copy. If he can, make another copy and have Hermione consume that one. If not, just have him consume the real thing and you'll order a new one for classes and a copy for Hermione.
--[X] If the experiment worked out, go with them tomorrow to the library and find a book on Occlumency that you can copy for them and have them consume. If it did not, order two copies of books on Occlumency via Owl, rush order.

Teaching them Occlumency will take months or even years. That's too long. Just use skill books to solve the problem.
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That's assuming party members can consume skill books. Did that happen in canon Gamer or in this quest? If so, that might work.
 
[X] I do not want to lie to you. On the other hand... It is an important secret. Did you know that some wizards can read your thoughts? How about this: I will teach you Occlumency, this is an art that protects your mind from being read. When you can protect your thoughts I will tell you. Deal?


Hold off for now without lying. Also it give us time to see if we can find alternate means of protecting their minds. There are so.e dnd spells that would do so. We may be able to make a magic item to keep them safe
 
Hm. I wonder if any of the protection line would defend them from legilimency.

The basic thing here is that we can't tell them until the time for them to finish learning occlumency once they've joined the party is less than the time until they see Snape, Dumbledore, or one of the other legilimens floating around the place. If they can eat skill books, that could be hours and we could do it after classes one day. If they can't, but we've spent some time grinding up a "teaching" skill and have resources and we're a legilimens, that could be days and we could do it over a weekend or Christmas break. If neither, and they have to learn it the hard way, that could be months and we won't be able to tell them until this summer.

I do think that, to reduce the possibility of them walking around for months with all our stuff available for the taking, we should at least grind up a teaching skill or some kind of Protection from Telepathy spell. Can anyone think of something that'd be useful? I don't have the spell list, but I suspect that even if AD&D has a Mind Blank it'd take too long to get to.

Also, it should be noted: our enemies knowing about our Gamer power is dangerous and the knowledge gives them an immediate tactical advantage. We cast from a mana bar. We lose any contests of endurance until we get more mana. Our enemies cannot learn about this.
 
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[] I do not want to lie to you. On the other hand... It is an important secret. Did you know that some wizards can read your thoughts? How about this: I will teach you Occlumency, this is an art that protects your mind from being read. When you can protect your thoughts I will tell you. Deal?

This is actually a really good precaution. only tell people who can defend their mind from mind reading. and also teach all our close friends to defend against mind reading

... on the other hand, if we tell them, we can invite them to party with us and there is only a slim chance of someone finding out (who reads the minds of random children in depth?) before we teach them occulmancy even faster (thanks to being in the party of a gamer)
 
Unelemental said:
That's assuming party members can consume skill books. Did that happen in canon Gamer or in this quest? If so, that might work.
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Wasn't really brought up ever I don't think. Sun-Il was used as a tank while in the party and they didn't have any skill books apart from drain health and I think Jee-Han learnt that, When the red haired girl and the chibiwitch were in the party they were sort of fighting for their lives and Jee-Han didn't have any skill books for them to try.

It's 50-50 really. With no proof for or against in the gamer it can go either way. For a compromise maybe not learning the skills straight away for party members? Maybe like read the book and practice it for like an hour or two. So still ridiculously quick skill gain compared to most wizards for occlumency but nowhere near as quick as Harry.

Plus if they leave the party they revert back to typical wizard skill gain. So years to master occlumency as opposed to Harry who can have it done in a couple days of full on grinding at most.
 
Antumbra said:
Is there actually any real reason why keeping it secret matters?
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Right now, the Gamer ability is an OCP. Its going to be pretty hard for any of our enemies to prepare themselves for it. Its clearly NOT a "talent by a weird name", but something MUCH stranger than that. Odds are that Harry is the first wizard to have this ability. At the very least, its absurdly rare given that Moody had never heard of anything like it. That gives us a big advantage, since no one can prepare for it. However once its revealed, that advantage is lost to us.

Theres a very big difference between Harry being a "normal" prodigy that simply learns very fast, and Harry living a videogame and possessing clearly superhuman abilities/skills. Right now even basic things like Gamer Body/Mind give us a significant edge. Not to mention the ability to move around via ID. And the ability to learn and use spell effects from fictional stories.

If Voldemort knows all that, we can expect him to take all of that into account in his plans to the best of his ability. If however he does NOT know any of that, then we have a "trump card" which we can pull in an emergency to surprise him with abilities that he could never have predicted.


Unelemental said:
That's assuming party members can consume skill books. Did that happen in canon Gamer or in this quest? If so, that might work.
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Also, even it its possible, seems to me that it would be smarter to test if the copying works and acquire occlumency books first, before telling things. This is our first day in Hogwarts. We will have plenty of time to tell them later, once we are ready. Heck, waiting until the first classes are over would seem smarter, since if theres a time when Snape/Voldemort are going to be reading minds, its when they meet us&our friends for the first time (in other words, the first class).
 
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