The Power(Harry Potter/The Gamer)

[Van Ropen]

Rowlings repeatedly said that a gun will win 9/10 fights

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Got a cite for that?

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Huh, looking it up I see pages and pages of people making that claim (which is where I picked it up), but nobody is able to provide a source and several threads where people specifically mention this incongruity and ask if anyone can cite a source and nobody able to.

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It's particularly interesting given what Rowling has actually said about the nature of the interaction between magical forces and mundane forces. Specifically:

I decided that, broadly speaking, wizards would have the power to correct or override 'mundane' nature, but not 'magical' nature.

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This was originally brought up with respect to illness (its why you can heal bones shattered by "mundane" means without any issue whatsoever, but similar injuries caused by a curse would be problematic - had Mad Eye's leg been chopped off by a cleaver it could have been fixed, but being removed by magical means resulted in a permanent disability), but also has pretty straightforward implications about the interaction between bullets and a magical shield that can stop physical force (or any number of the other spells which do so).

Which I suppose has interesting implications if we are serious about the whole healing thing, though we probably just skip all things by bringing in out-of-context magic and presume it addresses the magical nature of any injuries.

True, but then you have to ask why things like trolls or giants are considered dangerous. If there's a spell for stopping the knetic force of a bullet, then surely a mere troll club could be stopped easily by the same spell?

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Indeed, it could be. Ron managed to levitate a troll cub as an inexperienced first year with about the same difficulty he had levitating a feather. There is a reason giants are almost extinct and trolls are glorified exotic pets. Their danger stems entirely from their own magical natures, which are more difficult for the average individual to counter "off the cuff".

I believe said teleportation is only good for transportation/running away. Don't think they can use it mid-battle to increase their fighting effectiveness. Could be entirely wrong, but I don't recall anyone using it as such.

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Are bare minimum, we see Voldemort use it to reposition during his duel with Dumbledore in the Atrium.

...but are you really trying to say the ability to relocate via teleportation isn't useful in a fight?

 

[owrtho]

Rowlings repeatedly said that a gun will win 9/10 fights, but almost everyone who hears it made the same point as you, that a wizard would just have to be a moron to have a shootout against muggles instead of actually using their magic. i mean, they can fucking teleport. Anyways, no guns vs magic argument here, just a joke

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It's particularly interesting given what Rowling has actually said about the nature of the interaction between magical forces and mundane forces.

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I've always sorta figured that this is one of those facts akin to the whole 21 foot rule thing with a knife and gun, which is to say true, but it makes certain assumptions regarding the starting scenario and skill level of the participants (specifically, that the individual with the gun is more or less of average skill or less and not say a quick draw specialist, that they do not actually have their gun out, generally with the safety also on, and that it is the knife user who initiates hostilities). In the case of wizard versus gun, it isn't that odd to think that if they are both starting more or less from rest (meaning no passive spells to protect them from bullets, no wand or gun in hand, etc.), and considering the average wizard or witch does not have much in the way of combat training (also meaning that they likely have poor aim in situations where they are being attacked), on top of the tendency to use spells that don't cause permanent harm (stunners, and other spells that cause temporary loss of body control in some limited fashion, which notably travel far slower than a bullet given there is time to respond by casting protego from the point you see the spell being cast to the time it hits you), it isn't hard to imagine that most times the gun would win. It's more or less faster on the draw, more immediately harmful and lethal if it hits, and for that matter most people who know how to use a gun have some degree of training with it to fight. It isn't that a trained combat wizard such as an aura would be prone to lose most of the time, but that they make up less than 10% of the population (mind they would likely lose if caught completely off guard by it, but that is more or less akin to any ambush).

If a wizard already has his wand at the ready and is prepared for a fight, it likely will go to them, provided they can either escape line of sight faster than the muggle could draw and shoot, or otherwise cast a spell that protect against bullets within the same time frame. The issue isn't that magic when used doesn't trump guns, it's that usually the gun will put the wizard out of commission before they can bring it to bear.

owrtho

 

[Trondason]

Are bare minimum, we see Voldemort use it to reposition during his duel with Dumbledore in the Atrium.

...but are you really trying to say the ability to relocate via teleportation isn't useful in a fight?

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No, that Apparation is difficult enough, that it would take enough focus off the fight to do that it would leave you vulnerable. It's fine for running away, cause you have the time it takes to re-orient yourself, but mid-battle you don't have the time, and it would take a fair bit of skill to be able to re-orient fast enough.
Plus, notice, that I wasn't sure if any-one did, merely that i don't recall anyone doing so. Voldemort doing it, alright, he's one of the best wizards in Britain. I mere meant to say that for most combat, sure they can move fast, but the person they are fighting can usually re-aim faster than they can re-orient themselves.

 

[KnightofTempest]

I'm reminded of a Quote from the dresden files about how a mercenary would go about killing a wizard.

"If I were to kill you dresden, it would be with a sniper rifle from 100 yards away."

 

[horngeek]

enough of this This is not a 'Wizards vs. Guns' thread, and the last three pages have gone way too far off topic. Please keep on the subject of the Quest.

 

[Corvo Montés]

This isn't Dresden files, and please stop the stupid argument guns vs magic.

 

[KnightofTempest]

This isn't Dresden files, and please stop the stupid argument guns vs magic.

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Still rings true though, can't protect against what you don't know is coming.

But then we've been told to stop, so. . .

 

[Trondason]

Anyways, things we want to do in our last week. Go shopping for any magical items or skill books we want (like years 4-7). Figure out how to use our menus quietly. Figure out how to use abilities quietly. Explore our menus in general (find the setting menu, hopefully figure out we can make parties).

Anything else you all can think of that we really should get done before heading off to Hogwarts?

 

[KnightofTempest]

Anyways, things we want to do in our last week. Go shopping for any magical items or skill books we want (like years 4-7). Figure out how to use our menus quietly. Figure out how to use abilities quietly. Explore our menus in general (find the setting menu, hopefully figure out we can make parties).

Anything else you all can think of that we really should get done before heading off to Hogwarts?

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As I mentioned before going off topic it seems like training with moody is giving negligable gains to physical stats and diminishing gains to defense.

I propose we train Karate with weights on, which will increase our physical stats AND Karate and focus magically on Charms and Transfiguration.

 

[Crazy7s1]

Anyways, things we want to do in our last week. Go shopping for any magical items or skill books we want (like years 4-7). Figure out how to use our menus quietly. Figure out how to use abilities quietly. Explore our menus in general (find the setting menu, hopefully figure out we can make parties).

Anything else you all can think of that we really should get done before heading off to Hogwarts?

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That all sounds good. The only thing I would add would be training Occulmency, don't want anyone figuring out all our secrets too easily after all.

 

[Trondason]

As I mentioned before going off topic it seems like training with moody is giving negligable gains to physical stats and diminishing gains to defense.

I propose we train Karate with weights on, which will increase our physical stats AND Karate and focus magically on Charms and Transfiguration.

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We can do that at Hogwarts though. I was asking stuff we either CAN"T do at Hogwarts, or are so useful we want them as soon as possible anyways.

 

[megamiaouh]

hopefully figure out we can make parties

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In the manwha the party system is only used for communication and checking the status of allies since it doesn't give Gamer's Body and Mind which is the basis for living life as a game.
If it's the same in this Quest it isn't really useful yet and (depending on how close to canon HP it is) won't be for a few years, if so it shouldn't be a priority.

 

[KnightofTempest]

We can do that at Hogwarts though. I was asking stuff we either CAN"T do at Hogwarts, or are so useful we want them as soon as possible anyways.

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Then I would suggest trying to do more dungeons and pick up more skill books. Houses in Hogwarts are communal, so we are unlikely to get much alone time to do dungeons or devour skill books without people seeing.

 

[RandomLurker]

In the manwha the party system is only used for communication and checking the status of allies since it doesn't give Gamer's Body and Mind which is the basis for living life as a game.
If it's the same in this Quest it isn't really useful yet and (depending on how close to canon HP it is) won't be for a few years, if so it shouldn't be a priority.

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It's useful if you plan on either mooching off a higher level or more combat focused player or if you want to keep your friends in a close range, level wise.

 

[Trondason]

In the manwha the party system is only used for communication and checking the status of allies since it doesn't give Gamer's Body and Mind which is the basis for living life as a game.
If it's the same in this Quest it isn't really useful yet and (depending on how close to canon HP it is) won't be for a few years, if so it shouldn't be a priority.

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Just those would be very useful, but they aren't the only things it does. It also allows others to level up and distribute their stats how they wish.
Plus, that might not be the limit of it, the Manhwa doesn't explore the limits of most of it's things much.

Then I would suggest trying to do more dungeons and pick up more skill books. Houses in Hogwarts are communal, so we are unlikely to get much alone time to do dungeons or devour skill books without people seeing.

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Dungeons would be really easy. Slip into the bathroom, or really anywhere where we are unseen, and then slip into a ID, and we are good. Only have to be careful about exiting, but we have invisibility. We can eat skill-books in the ID as well. The only hard-ish part would be the getting of Skill-books. We would only have so much money once at Hogwarts after all, can't just pay Gringotts another visit for more.

 

[RandomLurker]

Then I would suggest trying to do more dungeons and pick up more skill books. Houses in Hogwarts are communal, so we are unlikely to get much alone time to do dungeons or devour skill books without people seeing.

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We could spend a lot of time "outside."

 

[Gen.Raven]

In the manwha the party system is only used for communication and checking the status of allies since it doesn't give Gamer's Body and Mind which is the basis for living life as a game.
If it's the same in this Quest it isn't really useful yet and (depending on how close to canon HP it is) won't be for a few years, if so it shouldn't be a priority.

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Doesn't it give people the ability to actually select where to put their stat points?

 

[Trondason]

Doesn't it give people the ability to actually select where to put their stat points?

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When they level up from being in our party, yes.

 

[RandomLurker]

Just those would be very useful, but they aren't the only things it does. It also allows others to level up and distribute their stats how they wish.
Plus, that might not be the limit of it, the Manhwa doesn't explore the limits of most of it's things much.

Dungeons would be really easy. Slip into the bathroom, or really anywhere where we are unseen, and then slip into a ID, and we are good. Only have to be careful about exiting, but we have invisibility. We can eat skill-books in the ID as well. The only hard-ish part would be the getting of Skill-books. We would only have so much money once at Hogwarts after all, can't just pay Gringotts another visit for more.

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@Halpo133 Do the monsters in the HP dungeons (Like the flobberworm dungeon and the Nundu dungeon) drop Galleons and such?

 

[Trondason]

@Halpo133 Do the monsters in the HP dungeons (Like the flobberworm dungeon and the Nundu dungeon) drop Galleons and such?

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He already said so, yes. The HP dungeons drop those, the others drop Muggle Money.

 

[Enjou]

Anyways, things we want to do in our last week. Go shopping for any magical items or skill books we want (like years 4-7). Figure out how to use our menus quietly. Figure out how to use abilities quietly. Explore our menus in general (find the setting menu, hopefully figure out we can make parties).

Anything else you all can think of that we really should get done before heading off to Hogwarts?

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We can order magical books by owl mail, so we could wait to do that until we're at Hogwarts if desired. Also, Hogwarts has a library - we can read the skill books the old fashioned way and probably grind Int at the same time.

I think we should train with Moody and double down on Occlumency to raise it as high as we can to prevent anyone from mind-reading us.

I'm thinking we should...
1. Meet with someone. (Bones family?)
2. Meet with a second friend. (Neville, probably since we didn't last week)
3. Train with Moody
4. Train with Moody
5. Train with Moody
6. Occlumency Training, and just that. Do pushups and mediation while doing it.
7. Run a Zombie dungeon, but this time with Moody to give us commentary and see if he has ideas on how to run the dungeon better. Maybe see about getting the Legion Zombie to show up.

Free action to send a letter to Hermione. Also, might have us arrange a meetup time for her, Neville, Susan, and us so we have a good crew for the train ride.

Maybe drop Susan Bones if we don't particularly feel like having her be part of our crew. I'm kind of undecided on bringing her in.

As I mentioned before going off topic it seems like training with moody is giving negligable gains to physical stats and diminishing gains to defense.

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Defense gains are decreasing due to us being higher levels at it. We should train more with him next week because he gives a very large modifier for it that we are not likely to get while at Hogwarts, at least for this year there, as personalized instruction of that quality is not likely to make itself available. Grinding Defense will be much, much harder once in Hogwarts.

@Halpo133 Do the monsters in the HP dungeons (Like the flobberworm dungeon and the Nundu dungeon) drop Galleons and such?

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Harry Potter dungeon monsters drop wizarding currency, Gamer dungeons drop muggle currency.

 

[owrtho]

Well, so far as plans for the time being, I'd again suggest getting some books for investigative/stealth skills (my suggestions having been Sherlock Holmes, Arsène Lupin, and potentially Lovecraft. In the case of the last Call of Cthulhu 4th Edition came out in 1989, and it has a decent array of skills and abilities pertaining to investigation. Also detailed insanity rules, but those are more along the lines of gaining it rather than curing it, for which it is primarily reliant on psychological counselling). Getting such skills and having a chance to train them some under Moody could be quite helpful. Otherwise, so far as actions to take before school starts, I'd suggest potentially grinding levels so as to earn trait points. Key traits of interest I think are Eidetic Memory (7), Metamorphmagus (10), and Remove Nearsighted (3). In the case of the last mostly as it would likely be better to take that before starting school if we plan to get it so as to avoid having to explain suddenly not needing glasses. Metamorphagus is good for potential stealth, blending in, etc. but not likely a priority at this point. If we plan to keep it secret there is no real issue with not having it before starting school, though we could admittedly change our look to something else before school starts if we so desire. Eidetic Memory mostly fits in with my desire for strong investigative skills (which would make things far easier I suspect), but also would help learning magic and grinding mental skills.

owrtho

 

[Trondason]

We can order magical books by owl mail, so we could wait to do that until we're at Hogwarts if desired. Also, Hogwarts has a library - we can read the skill books the old fashioned way and probably grind Int at the same time.

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The shopping is less for the books, and more for any neat magical items we might find. There are probably tons of neat things that might be useful in some situation, and given both our limitless storage space, and our almost limitless money, we can get those things. I'm particularly interested in what's down knock-turn alley if we can go shopping down there, especially particularly the Vanishing Cabinet if it's on sale, since that links to the Room of Requirement which also has lots of neat stuff.
Plus, can't owl order muggle books.

double down on Occlumency to raise it as high as we can to prevent anyone from mind-reading us.

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I'm not too worried about that. Our low Occlumency should be high enough to keep anyone from taking a casual peek, and tip us off if anyone is trying anything more thorough.

Eidetic Memory (7)

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Actually, Eidetic Memory comes with the rather big down-side to opening us up to spells like Imperious, and Dementors.

so as to avoid having to explain suddenly not needing glasses

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We are the boy who lived, who has perfect grades in every class. People probably won't question it much.

 

[owrtho]

Actually, Eidetic Memory comes with the rather big down-side to opening us up to spells like Imperious, and Dementors.

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Is there WoG on that? For one thing it only note that we are more vulnerable to attacks that use our memories. Presumably we already are susceptible to them, just not in the normal manner, instead getting status effects while maintaining rational thought. Based on the wording it just makes such effects more likely to work on us, rather than removing an immunity. That said, from what I remember of the books, the Imperious has nothing to do with memories. While our vulnerability to Dementors may be increased, I don't think it would make as weaker against Imperious, and in either case stronger mental stats and resistances can likely counteract them (for instance our Occulmency skill).

Fair enough on the eyesight thing though. I was more noting it as not being a bad idea to do if we had the points and plan to get it at all. I do figure it to be lower priority than the other traits I mentioned, while the ones not mentioned could be useful (the stat boosting ones being better sooner than later) they don't really give things that would benefit from getting them before starting classes.

owrtho

 

[Trondason]

Is there WoG on that? For one thing it only note that we are more vulnerable to attacks that use our memories. Presumably we already are susceptible to them, just not in the normal manner, instead getting status effects while maintaining rational thought. Based on the wording it just makes such effects more likely to work on us, rather than removing an immunity. That said, from what I remember of the books, the Imperious has nothing to do with memories. While our vulnerability to Dementors may be increased, I don't think it would make as weaker against Imperious, and in either case stronger mental stats and resistances can likely counteract them (for instance our Occulmency skill).

Fair enough on the eyesight thing though. I was more noting it as not being a bad idea to do if we had the points and plan to get it at all. I do figure it to be lower priority than the other traits I mentioned, while the ones not mentioned could be useful (the stat boosting ones being better sooner than later) they don't really give things that would benefit from getting them before starting classes.

owrtho

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Here is the important and possibly terrifying part of that trait and negative traits and all. See... It gives a 1.5x on top of other bonuses to ALL magical and mental skills. Yet, unlike Magic of the Multiverse which is just as good, it only costs 7 trait points. That's because the negative is dangerous. The negative from that, and indeed the negative from all traits, bypasses gamer's mind/body. It becomes an inherent part of your character, and thus not something the Gamer's Mind affects. Right now, dementors, while threatening, wouldn't have the affect they did in canon. If you took that trait, that is no longer true.

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