Using this picture as reference, and the fact that a adult troll is stated to be 12 feet tall
(3.6576 meters), I used pixel measurements to find that the club is 3.3 meters long, and .48 meters wide
Lets say the club the club had dimensions of 3.3 meters x .48 meters x .48 meters, a total of 0.76 m^3. Lets assume that the wood his club is made has a density of 700 kgs/m^3 (median density of various types of wood), which gives the club a weight of 535 kgs.
Now lets look at a bullet fired from a Barrett M95 rifle (We wouldn't settle for small stuff). Muzzle velocity of 860 m/s, and a weight of 49 g.
The club weighs 10,918 times more than the bullet, and as such only needs 1/104 times the speed to have equal kinetic energy. Which means a swing speed of 8.2 m/s.
Considering the average base-ball bat swing speed is 34 m/s, I say the club has it.
Now, it's penetrative power is another thing (if that even matters for Protego). Would have to find the cross-sectional area of both to figure that out. Maybe another time.
Except, according to the wiki, he did. I do not currently have the book on hand, so can't check the 1st hand source,[/Spoiler]
And they accelerate at a different rate then, you nit-picker.
I ignored some stuff, because that's what you do unless you want 9 pages of math (that I don't know how to do), rather than one half-page (which I do know how to do)
A bullet has a weight in the order of 5 to 50 grams for pistols and rifles, according to a quick Google. That's 0.005 to 0.05 kg. Using Alanek's data, I'm going to assume 10 g.
Also according to Alanek, rifles can have velocities of 833 m s^-1 at the muzzle. I have no idea if that's right or not, but that doesn't seem unrealistic.
Using the kinetic energy equation, that gives a total energy for a 10 g bullet at that speed of about 3.5 kJ. Note that this is for a rifle bullet.
A troll club made of wood is... well, modelling the whole thing would be a pain and require accounting for variable size and velocity down its length, so let's just use the end. Assume there's a big cylindrical knob on the end, say 1.5 m long and 0.75 m in diameter, and let's use that and assume it has point mass for purposes of kinetic energy (i.e. we can model it as a single moving point).
Wood generally has a density of between 400 to 1000 kg m^-3, depending on species. Going with 500, that gives a club end mass of about 331 kg.
From this, we can calculate that the club end only has to be moving at about 4.5 ms^-1 to equal the energy of the bullet.
A quick Google shows that a average golfer can swing a club so it's tip is moving at between 70 and 100 mph, with pros being significantly faster. I know that's not quite equivalent to a troll club, but it's close enough.
Assuming a troll swings their club at 70 mph, that's about 31 ms^-1. That gives the tip of the club approximately 160 kJ of kinetic energy, or about 45 times that of the bullet.
Note that this is probably low-balling the club speed and weight, only accounts for part of it's mass, and that we're comparing it to a military rifle muzzle velocity- the impact velocity would be slower, and against pistols the difference would be even more extreme.
Lets not call Voldemort incompetent please. I don't recall any canonical fact saying that making horcruxes frays someones decision making abilities and Voldemort was still brilliant after his revival. He kept to the shadows and played Fudge's insecurities about Dumbledore to rebuild his army uncontested. He sent his best death eaters after the one thing that could potentially harming him, the prophecy, and if it hadn't been for plot armor, he would've easily gotten away with it. He played on Harry's need to save others and would've won the Battle of Hogwarts had Harry remained dead. It was really just a shitty case of luck/plot armor that had Harry win. I'm not saying Harry wasn't powerful in his own rights, but Voldemort was in a whole different league.
Lets not call Voldemort incompetent please. I don't recall any canonical fact saying that making horcruxes frays someones decision making abilities and Voldemort was still brilliant after his revival. He kept to the shadows and played Fudge's insecurities about Dumbledore to rebuild his army uncontested. He sent his best death eaters after the one thing that could potentially harming him, the prophecy, and if it hadn't been for plot armor, he would've easily gotten away with it. He played on Harry's need to save others and would've won the Battle of Hogwarts had Harry remained dead. It was really just a shitty case of luck/plot armor that had Harry win. I'm not saying Harry wasn't powerful in his own rights, but Voldemort was in a whole different league.
Which all boils down to plot armor. Take for example, the battle at the Ministry of Magic. You're telling me a bunch of under trained school kids, who have had one, maybe two years of actual Defense Against the Dark Arts, were able to successfully hold of Voldemort's most trained Death Eaters? The same Death Eaters who'd survived the first war dueling highly trained Aurors? I love the Harry Potter series as much as the next guy, but the concept of destiny is ridiculous to me. Harry had magical protection against Voldemort because his mother sacrificed herself to save him. You're telling me that no other mother or father did the same? Harry had a TON of plot armor and there really is no way around that.
Is that a "Guns v. Wizards" argument I see forming? I do believe it is.
Can we cut it short by saying that a competent wizard would have nothing to fear from a mundie with a gun, but an idiot who goes around throwing bolts of light probably does, barring static defenses not in evidence?
Which all boils down to plot armor. Take for example, the battle at the Ministry of Magic. You're telling me a bunch of under trained school kids, who have had one, maybe two years of actual Defense Against the Dark Arts, were able to successfully hold of Voldemort's most trained Death Eaters? The same Death Eaters who'd survived the first war dueling highly trained Aurors
I don't know there seem to be certain limitations to dueling itself that mean in confused circumstances one can hold off superior opponents with a great deal of luck. And all the kids had drunk a luck potion of great potency the likes of which one can only take once every three decades.
A lot of fantasy tropes run on it though from the times when out ancestors were telling stories around the fire in the cave most likely. The idea of destiny was/is part of most major mythologies
Harry had magical protection against Voldemort because his mother sacrificed herself to save him. You're telling me that no other mother or father did the same? Harry had a TON of plot armor and there really is no way around that.
They probably did. After all the memory of Riddle recognized the protection when he heard about it. Most likely Dark wizards attacking kids in such way that the parents could sacrifice themselves is an unlikely situation for a variety of reasons from the scarcity of Dark wizards to the basic pointlessness of attacking kids to the chaotic conditions of life-and-death situations.
I don't know there seem to be certain limitations to dueling itself that mean in confused circumstances one can hold off superior opponents with a great deal of luck. And all the kids had drunk a luck potion of great potency the likes of which one can only take once every three decades.
A lot of fantasy tropes run on it though from the times when out ancestors were telling stories around the fire in the cave most likely. The idea of destiny was/is part of most major mythologies
They probably did. After all the memory of Riddle recognized the protection when he heard about it. Most likely Dark wizards attacking kids in such way that the parents could sacrifice themselves is an unlikely situation for a variety of reasons from the scarcity of Dark wizards to the basic pointlessness of attacking kids to the chaotic conditions of life-and-death situations.
Is that a "Guns v. Wizards" argument I see forming? I do believe it is.
Can we cut it short by saying that a competent wizard would have nothing to fear from a mundie with a gun, but an idiot who goes around throwing bolts of light probably does, barring static defenses not in evidence?
Rowlings repeatedly said that a gun will win 9/10 fights, but almost everyone who hears it made the same point as you, that a wizard would just have to be a moron to have a shootout against muggles instead of actually using their magic. i mean, they can fucking teleport. Anyways, no guns vs magic argument here, just a joke
Rowlings repeatedly said that a gun will win 9/10 fights, but almost everyone who hears it made the same point as you, that a wizard would just have to be a moron to have a shootout against muggles instead of actually using their magic. i mean, they can fucking teleport. Anyways, no guns vs magic argument here, just a joke
I believe said teleportation is only good for transportation/running away. Don't think they can use it mid-battle to increase their fighting effectiveness. Could be entirely wrong, but I don't recall anyone using it as such.
Oh, I get that. However, it was a joke that seemed likely to set off the same tired arguments you alluded to, hence the post. I trust you weren't too terribly offended?
Huh, looking it up I see pages and pages of people making that claim (which is where I picked it up), but nobody is able to provide a source and several threads where people specifically mention this incongruity and ask if anyone can cite a source and nobody able to.
It is possible that the source was just insignificant enough that it got buried under mountains of discussion and google's prioritization algorithms, or that maybe it is a lie that stuck around. I don't know.
Oh, I get that. However, it was a joke that seemed likely to set off the same tired arguments you alluded to, hence the post. I trust you weren't too terribly offended?
Wow, it's a good thing this talk of guns against wizards is so incredibly relevant to exactly what we're doing in the quest right now, otherwise this entire thread would be considered derailed.
Seriously people, drop it. Absolutely none of this is even slightly relevant to anything we're doing right now. If you absolutely need to talk about something, then why not talk about something that we are doing? It'd be a million times more interesting, if nothing else.
Wow, it's a good thing this talk of guns against wizards is so incredibly relevant to exactly what we're doing in the quest right now, otherwise this entire thread would be considered derailed.
Seriously people, drop it. Absolutely none of this is even slightly relevant to anything we're doing right now. If you absolutely need to talk about something, then why not talk about something that we are doing? It'd be a million times more interesting, if nothing else.
What we ARE Doing is waiting for Halpo to write the next update. Not much to talk about that.
So instead, we talk about the background, which is relevant to what we might do in the future.
Wow, it's a good thing this talk of guns against wizards is so incredibly relevant to exactly what we're doing in the quest right now, otherwise this entire thread would be considered derailed.
There is no talk about guns vs wizards, it was only mentioned by people wanting to preempt such a discussion, and everyone agreed that we should not have such a discussion, and thus the subject was dropped before it was even raised.
you telling people to drop it is you bringing it back up after it was already dropped by everyone else
There is no talk about guns vs wizards, it was only mentioned by people wanting to preempt such a discussion, and everyone agreed that we should not have such a discussion, and thus the subject was dropped before it was even raised.
you telling people to drop it is you bringing it back up after it was already dropped by everyone else
I'm going to assume you missed all the posts talking about how well guns would work against Voldemort, which was then followed by several more posts on the subject.
