The Morrsley Village Experiment

Alright so the other major issue thats come up is people fishing for specific info on rolecards or something like that. Maybe we should simplify that for the newer players (Not me) so that they can catch up on whats happened on that front (Once again, not me)
Essentially, @InterstellarHobo made a suggestion that there might not be a scum team, knowing that isn't consistent with information that town should have. The fact that @Shadell entertained this idea has been used to suggest she is not town. That is pretty much it. Going through the details of how one can come to the conclusion there is definitely a scum team is probably better not being shared.
 
Essentially, @InterstellarHobo made a suggestion that there might not be a scum team, knowing that isn't consistent with information that town should have. The fact that @Shadell entertained this idea has been used to suggest she is not town. That is pretty much it. Going through the details of how one can come to the conclusion there is definitely a scum team is probably better not being shared.
Thanks for that, just hard to shift through the walls of text considering its 20 to 2 over here. In other news, I should go to sleep
 
I haven't noticed anything significant being leaked.
Half the thread either said that they did get it, or said that they didn't. Note that there is actually a divide there, and not just everyone saying "Yep, I got that!"
... What was it you just said? Oh.

Honestly, the nerve.
Do you really want to keep drawing false parallels here ondine?

Anyways. Allow me to set the situation for you here.

Interstellar Hobo claims that Shadell is Non-Town because Shadell obviously is missing information that all Town have... Which says that there is more than just Town.
This is openly claiming that due to rolecard information, Shadell is Scum and Hobo is Town. He even points out what that information actually says, and so we know that it says that there is more than just one faction.
So that information is already in the open, the issue though is where did that info come from?
-Was it the Win Condition that suggested such? It's open to (mis)interpretation in that case. See The Rumor.
-Was it the Professor that said so? The Professor is a fluff piece that is running a social experiment and has been given license to have us shot.
-Was it the Town Title? In which case... Does it actually matter? Is the title the same as with everyone else?

I'm pretty sure it's the third thing that is actually what everyone is talking about, but the issue is that you two refuse to even clarify that much. Was it just because the Professor told you? Was it because the actual GM told you there was? You two refuse to specify because "Maybe it'll inform the scum" but you've already told the scum the important part of that information.

So I'm watching you two try to control the lynch with vague reasoning that doesn't actually mean anything, and I'm watching other people just freely give out information in a mockery of the Magical Mafia game. Me pointing out that what you've said could be an issue in translation, and that scum are likely to just nod their heads and go with whatever you're claiming for easy town cred, are reasons that I am suspicious.

Any attempt at clarifying, at actually making sure that things are the way you two are claiming it to be, is immediately shut down with disproportionate reactions. Me pointing out that some people don't seem to have the information you're claiming, and that scum are likely to be hiding among the people who are claiming to be, is called 'Pocketing' and 'part of a strategy', and that Nictis is very smart so you shouldn't listen to him!

Me pointing out that Shadell actually doesn't seem to be having the issue you two are saying she's having... Is a sign that we're both scum instead of seriously considered.

Me openly stating that I don't know what you're talking about, which according to you is a sure sign of me not being Town, is ignored. You keep calling me scum, but you don't actually try to pressure or lynch the person that is 100% non-Town according to your own reasoning.

Cyricubed tries to point out the issues in what you two are doing. Cyricubed is scum too. Obviously.

I'm getting somewhat distracted, but I see you repeatedly overreacting in order to prevent this from falling down on your head, and calling anyone who disagrees with you on something that is very vague to be scum. I see myself actually meeting the criteria you've set for Scum, and ignore it. You outright caution people about getting pocketed by me instead of... y'know, lynching me or giving an actual reason to scumread me. I have to actually demand that you stick to what you're saying in order to get your vote, and even then it's really not.

The important information that you are trying to protect is already in the open, but you refuse to actually show any kind of evidence that you actually have said information. Pointing towards either it being something that the GM told you or something that the Professor told you would tell Scum nothing, but would allow other members of the Town to verify it for themselves or say that it's different.

So everyone who disagrees with you is scum, and you've been scumreading both me and Shadell since the start of the Day for reasons that you "can't" say, more vague bullshit in order to justify lynching whoever you feel like and letting everyone else fill in the blank on why. Repeatedly calling me scummy, suspicious, or having an agenda without actually doing anything to say why is just constant shading in order to try and remove an opponent's credibility.

And why was I already an opponent to you?

I'm in a bad mood from other stuff, but really. Either you two explain what you're on about, or I will do everything I can to guarantee that you die, because you're scum.

That's it.
 
And I know that Hobo has played enough to realize that the entire scumteam isn't going to stand up and say "That's wrong" as a united front on Day 1, so either your assumption should be challenged by the fact that several people are challenging it, or you're scum.

I don't know who is what here, but I'm pretty sure that these two are faking it and taking all of y'all on for a ride. They haven't exactly been doing it in a very Townie way either, so it's kinda crazy that only me Shadell and Cyricubed are actually calling them out for it.
 
(And because I really can't stop myself from dropping the final note here)

Did you really think that I wouldn't recognize this from my own play? Game of Crowns wasn't that long ago for me not to recognize scum pulling an 'Informed Townie' play.
 
Unless if they decide that they want to clarify things, this is something I'm willing to stake my life on. Ondine and Hobo are not Town, and truthfully I'm not entirely certain that there is a Town in this setup, but I'm calling them Scum.
 
Unless if they decide that they want to clarify things, this is something I'm willing to stake my life on. Ondine and Hobo are not Town, and truthfully I'm not entirely certain that there is a Town in this setup, but I'm calling them Scum.
Are you claiming scum then?
 
Unless if they decide that they want to clarify things, this is something I'm willing to stake my life on. Ondine and Hobo are not Town, and truthfully I'm not entirely certain that there is a Town in this setup, but I'm calling them Scum.
You said that you weren't certain there is a town. Which...Then suggests you aren't town?

And I said the GM. Did you not read what I said?

Also, you seem to be under the impression that I'm like reading your games and trying to be you??? I'm way too tired for that. Honestly. I'm just trying to be more aggressive than I was last game.
 
You said that you weren't certain there is a town. Which...Then suggests you aren't town?

And I said the GM. Did you not read what I said?

Also, you seem to be under the impression that I'm like reading your games and trying to be you??? I'm way too tired for that. Honestly. I'm just trying to be more aggressive than I was last game.
You've only just now said the GM, and you still haven't actually said anything at all as to what information you were talking about. "I trust the GM" doesn't tell anyone anything at all. As for the Town thing... You do know there's more than just Scum and Town, right? Considering your repeated mentions of 'Non-Town' instead of 'Scum' this game, I'm pretty sure you do.

And really, I'm calling out Hobo more for the informed Townie play than you, since I'm pretty sure Hobo was in that game, and he's the one who started the play, you're the one who followed up on it.
 
@Nictis, are you willing to claim? Not regarding powers, but anything else that might be relevant?
The main reason I don't want to reveal what I'm talking about is so that you don't know what to lie about in a fake claim.

If you aren't willing to claim, I need to think very hard if there's any benefit at all in revealing what I was talking about.
 
@Nictis, are you willing to claim? Not regarding powers, but anything else that might be relevant?
The main reason I don't want to reveal what I'm talking about is so that you don't know what to lie about in a fake claim.

If you aren't willing to claim, I need to think very hard if there's any benefit at all in revealing what I was talking about.
The benefit is not having me trying to get you lynched or killed the rest of the game out of spite and aggravation.

As for my claim, no.

You two have been the ones who have been trying to lead the lynch around with hidden reasoning that nobody other than Meso actually agrees with, and nobody is actually sure what it is you are talking about. You two have been the ones to call everyone who tries to call attention to that Scum, and she's been attempting to discredit me the entire Day.

I've made it pretty obvious what I've figured my position to be in this setup, I could still be wrong but I doubt it.

You two are the ones who need to show that you haven't been lying this entire time, and you've both been dodging the issue with the flimsiest of excuses since the beginning. I'm not going to give you more than I already have until then.
 
I've made it pretty obvious what I've figured my position to be in this setup, I could still be wrong but I doubt it.
This is basically claiming not to be town, right? Am I reading this wrong???

Nictis I have never said non-town. You're the one who has said it now multiple times.

And it's almost 24 hours to EoD. I'm not going to just bleed everything now. If you have a specific question that will make you feel better about me that won't put me in a bad place then ask it. You can't just fish for all the information.
 
Ok. Assume, for a minute, that I am town and actually have a point here- though potentially a meaningless or bad one.
This is the only situation in which I would possibly be inclined to reveal said point.

However, I'm not inclined to reveal it, because there seems to be no benefit. You use the threat trying to get me lynched, except I think that's rather toothless, and further "I will try to get you lynched if you don't share information" really isn't something smart to fold to.
 
Mmm, further on this:
Your arguments don't mesh together.


You accuse me of performing an informed townie act.
You later accuse me of making up the information wholesale.

These do not work together. If I'm doing an informed townie act, I am informed.
If I am making up the information wholesale, I somehow got ondine and Mesonoxonian to go along with it, despite having entirely bogus information.
It could be an extremely ballsy and equally bad scum play, as opposed to a rather ballsy and not-quite-commensurately bad town play.

You should be able to conclude with reasonable probability that I am not lying, independant of me being town.
 
Nictis I have never said non-town. You're the one who has said it now multiple times.
Right, sorry. You've said "Not Town" multiple times, and I've assumed that you were specifically saying "Not Town" and not "Scum" because... That's what you were saying.

And because I know you are aware of Non-Town Non-Scum roles being a thing. And because I'm pretty sure there's been talk of third parties. And because we've talked about non-Town non-Scum roles last game together.
...
So I can really only read this as being purposefully obtuse ondine.
Are you claiming not town?
Agreed. I will say that I'm fairly certain Shadell is not town for a number of reasons.
I should point out.. that if town should know there's more than town.. everyone should. Because either you're town and you know for unspecified reasons. Or you aren't town, and uh duh, you know there's not just town since that's you.
Not to mention the concern over me pocketing people who don't have the info that all Town have. Because why would that be a concern? (That is still bugging me)

Not to mention that there should still be the base assumption that there's more than just Town in any given game, because that's how Mafia works. Which is why your insistence on vaguely stating that you know there's more than one Town really means nothing, because everyone is going to agree with it if they think you're Town and want to score Town points.
Ok. Assume, for a minute, that I am town and actually have a point here- though potentially a meaningless or bad one.
This is the only situation in which I would possibly be inclined to reveal said point.

However, I'm not inclined to reveal it, because there seems to be no benefit. You use the threat trying to get me lynched, except I think that's rather toothless, and further "I will try to get you lynched if you don't share information" really isn't something smart to fold to.
Let me rephrase then. You are acting like scum. You are leading the lynch around on reasons that are non existent. Both you and ondine dodge every opportunity of acting like Town and actually providing reasons why someone is suspicious and should be lynched. I'm not saying to bleed info, I'm saying to back up the bullshit.

Because if you don't prove it, it's only because you can't. Because if you are Town, you've already betrayed that the info exists and what it means.

But if you're Scum, you can't afford to let it come to light. Because it's nothing more than what it appears to be, bullshit.
Mmm, further on this:
Your arguments don't mesh together.


You accuse me of performing an informed townie act.
You later accuse me of making up the information wholesale.

These do not work together. If I'm doing an informed townie act, I am informed.
If I am making up the information wholesale, I somehow got ondine and Mesonoxonian to go along with it, despite having entirely bogus information.
It could be an extremely ballsy and equally bad scum play, as opposed to a rather ballsy and not-quite-commensurately bad town play.

You should be able to conclude with reasonable probability that I am not lying, independant of me being town.
... Did you not realize what the word "Act" means?

Let alone that I have very obviously called you and ondine both as Scum, and Meso having demonstrated a habit of sheeping people for bad reasonings?
 
If I die, I'm dying calling you two out.

If you can't prove what you're saying, it's because you're bullshitting the whole way.

If you can get anyone other than ondine or Meso to say that they definitively know what you're talking about, fine. Town isn't going to be three people now is it?

Either prove it, or let someone else say that they know exactly what you're talking about, because according to you it's obvious and all Town know it.

Call it fishing if you want, I'm calling your bluff.
 
I do not plan to prove it. Even if fishing isn't your goal, it would be the result.

I intend to drop this discussion and focus on other things for the remainder of the day. Do what you will.
 
I do not plan to prove it. Even if fishing isn't your goal, it would be the result.

I intend to drop this discussion and focus on other things for the remainder of the day. Do what you will.
Hobo. You really can't drop the discussion.

You've stuck yourself in this situation because it's been the only thing you've done today. Everything has been backed with the reasoning of "But I can't tell you why" and "The GM told me something that proves you're scum" and you've shown no willingness to confirm if the stuff you've been told even matches what everyone else has been told. Everything the two of you have argued has been on the basis of "My rolecard says... oh wait, I shouldn't say that, tee-hee~"

Your arguments against Shadell:
-They obviously aren't Town, they don't know the thing!
-They're getting protected by their scum buddies, who are scum because they don't know the thing!
-I've suspected Shadell since the start of the Day but I can't actually say why! (Ondine)

Your arguments against me:
-Well they're scum. No reason provided.
-Well they're scum, they said so! They don't know the thing!
-They're fishing for information about the thing!
-Nictis is very smart and is pocketing people, so don't listen to him! (Ondine)
-Nictis' response to Shadell is suspicious because they aren't scumreading Shadell! (Ondine)
-Nictis' response to Shadell is suspicious because... Oh wait, I shouldn't say! (Ondine)

Your arguments against Cyricubed:
(Honestly should go read them again, I can only remember these)
-He obviously doesn't know about the thing!
-He's fishing for information about the thing!
-He's not agreeing with us using rolecard info to scumhunt, he obviously doesn't know about the thing!

You've provided nothing else, and nearly everything else in the Day has stemmed from it. Of course we're going to discuss it, and I'm going to need you to prove it.
 
You're welcome to continue, and to try to get me lynched as a result.
I do not intend to reveal any more information than I already have. You do not seem inclined to accept anything else from me.
I do not think my time would be well spent on what seems to be an intractable problem, and intend to pay attention to other things.

Hence, do what you will.
 
@Nictis I do not want to keep doing this. This is exhausting. I do not know for a fact how many groups there are, just more than one. I will claim town. My wincon is that everyone else has to die. Not terribly surprising. So, look, now scum has a nice juicy night target. I would rather lose than have people screaming for the next however many days.

I don't think any of us are having fun. I don't know how to tell you what you want to hear to make you feel better. I would really, really like to have a decent game and not let a dumb mafia game impact our friendship. So, I'm going to back off now. I didn't know how shitty it was to use role card info. I've literally played one game before and that had an open set up. Is this enough for you?
 
You're welcome to continue, and to try to get me lynched as a result.
I do not intend to reveal any more information than I already have. You do not seem inclined to accept anything else from me.
I do not think my time would be well spent on what seems to be an intractable problem, and intend to pay attention to other things.

Hence, do what you will.
Then let me ask you this then, since you've decided that it's best to just ignore me pointing out how you're claiming to hold back information already leaked enough to be irrelevant.

What are you going to pursue? What are you going to question?

Are you going to try to lynch Cyricubed for... Not having the same rolecard as you?
Are you going to make a return to Shadell for the same reason?
Are you going to lynch me for actually matching what you are claiming is bad?

Or are you going to engage with the actual game and not just hide behind your rolecard?
 
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