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The Lost Primarch Quest

Flagship Name

  • Spirit of Fire

    Votes: 21 47.7%

  • Vigilance

    Votes: 23 52.3%
  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
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Kesar is not a good scapegoat and Emps would know that. Far more likely he would arrange a fait accompli situation where not supporting him would be against our best interests, and unfortunately being infamously single-minded works against us in this case since there is a well-known point of leverage against which we won't budge, but that doesn't mean it can't point us in other directions based on the movements and maneuvers of others.

Kesar is leading the charge (as he usually does) because other people want to act as well, with less generous or benevolent intentions, and while they might not have been likely to move so soon without our prompting, Kesar sees absolutely little point trying to ride the bull and outmaneuver a couple dozen strong personalities over decades.

Instead he's much more likely to put everyone into check immediately by taking a risky gamble and succeeding against all odds anyway when he rightfully shouldn't. People still get surprised by him doing so which says something.
 
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Kesar is playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers, but Kesar also lit the chess and checkers board on fire by accident and just said, "well, I guess we need to play something else?"
 
I'd say that the four biggest options to talk with right now are, in no particular order, Sanguinius, Guilliman, the Masked Stagehand and Corvus Corax with Magnus.

I'm a bit biased, but the Masked Stagehand has to be talked with. In case anyone isn't aware, that is not a Callidus assassin or any Imperial assassin at all. That's a Harlequin of Cegorach, the Eldar Laughing God. Maybe not right exactly now, but the Harlequins have prepared a special gift for Kesar.

The relic belonging to a now deceased Eldar Daemonsbane, a mask that is an anti-Chaos artefact that is focused on stealth, meaning Kesar Dorlin's biggest weakness against Chaos (the fact that daemonic enemies, including literal planets that are daemonic, will just run away if they can before Kesar arrives) is now sorted to some extent.

Aside from that, Guilliman is signalling to Kesar and Fulgrim said that Kesar should talk with Guilliman, so we should definitely go to him. If anyone can help manage a lot of this situation, it's him. Also, I really wanna see a mention of Tumultus as holy shit that was crazy.

Sanguinius is also looking towards Kesar a lot, but if that's signalling or just annoyance is uncertain. Either way, they are one of the most well liked Primarchs and a member of the Imperial Few that was in that recent meeting with the Emperor of Mankind over this situation. He's also Horus's best friend, and with Daemon Hunter confirming that the people here are gonna talk with each other it's certain that Sanguinius is gonna talk to Horus himself later.

So if we go to Sanguinius, we can hopefully ease the tension, have Kesar explain himself and his side, and let Sanguinius able to better talk with and advise Horus later on. As, well, if there's one person who can help Horus right now it's Sanguinius. Or, well, perhaps not.

Corvus Corax and Magnus both at once is tempting all on its own, and they're both (along with Guilliman) in on the Eldar thing, heavily looking into undead matters (including right now with this dead planet we're on) and would just be nice to talk with. Especially coupled with the Masked Stagehand.
 
I would advise talking to the Masked Stagehand.

If we take too long, Daemon might decide that they will need to get our attention otherwise, and that could cause a lot of "problems" for one of the Primarchs.

The sooner Cegorach talks to us, the sooner he can fuck off without causing someone a headache.
 
Roboute seems to be a no-brainer. The other two choices really depend on what we hope to gain out of this meeting, but mind you, if Cegorach's emissary intends to pass that Ghosthelm into our hands, it won't be in plain sight of everyone else, and he'll try to meet Kesar regardless.

If we're a going for a concerted end-state which reconciles opposing opinions, Roboute is likely to see both of those sides and imagine how to ride the incoming storm for the sake of Ultramar, so the perspective of how it would impact someone trying to run a polity is there.

If we want to make our own plan, Perturabo would help us.

There's also options for letting other people make moves and then supporting them instead, so recon would be more important there.
 
Ragingbear21 said:
I am surprised that neither Alpharius nor Omegon came. or did they?
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They had an argument over this. Omegon wanted to come so that Alpharius could hear your reasoning directly as soon as possible. Alpharius didn't want to show up as he thinks it'd be better to have said talk in private so he can ask more sensitive questions. There is an Alpha Legionary present though, not that anyone has noticed them.
 
"Please ignore the Astartes wearing earpieces, government-issued sunglasses, and non-descript legion markings. Those men are simply here to tidy up."
 
Daemon Hunter said:
They had an argument over this. Omegon wanted to come so that Alpharius could hear your reasoning directly as soon as possible. Alpharius didn't want to show up as he thinks it'd be better to have said talk in private so he can ask more sensitive questions. There is an Alpha Legionary present though, not that anyone has noticed them.
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Alpharius is honestly fair and valid there. Not a lot of what we can say to pose a convincing argument is stuff we can air out in the open, not and have his own motives remain indiscernable to other parties. For Alpharius OPSEC is pretty much synonymous with combat integrity for other Legions.
 
Daemon Hunter said:
Alpharius dropped as well, although Omegon stayed where he was.
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Oh... Oh fuck a duck. The Twins were so good at working together, damn it! But... honestly I can understand. Omegon was the one whose life was saved by Ahriman using Eldar holy texts, so it stands to reason that he's more willing to lend an ear to the "other side" so to speak. And of course, Kesar at least on paper seems to be on that same "other side" which means the relationship hit doesn't happen
 
Omegon is not so much in lockstep with Alpharius as one would think. One of the few if only people to recognize that was Kesar. While their Warp-presence situation is unique they are two distinct individuals closely bonded. Which makes it worse for Alpharius becuse on some level he wants to side with Kesar despite many best laid plans insisting he shouldn't.

The thing is. They also made plans for if Kesar was in the right, naturally. Because Alpha Legion.
 
Crake said:
Omegon is not so much in lockstep with Alpharius as one would think. One of the few if only people to recognize that was Kesar. While their Warp-presence situation is unique they are two distinct individuals closely bonded. Which makes it worse for Alpharius becuse on some level he wants to side with Kesar despite many best laid plans insisting he shouldn't.

The thing is. They also made plans for if Kesar was in the right, naturally. Because Alpha Legion.
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Which is actually nice to see as a character moment. It downplays the nonsense that twins often behave and act the same when that is just not the case at all. But modern media continues to portray it as such.
 
And that is sthe s
Crake said:
Omegon is not so much in lockstep with Alpharius as one would think. One of the few if only people to recognize that was Kesar. While their Warp-presence situation is unique they are two distinct individuals closely bonded. Which makes it worse for Alpharius becuse on some level he wants to side with Kesar despite many best laid plans insisting he shouldn't.

The thing is. They also made plans for if Kesar was in the right, naturally. Because Alpha Legion.
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It helps to remember that in Canon, Alpharius was recovered basically as soon as his pod fell out of the warp, potentially on Terra. Omegon meanwhile was NOT found immediately. He was found later by Alpharius, with the canonical "discovery" having been pre-arranged.

We should of course expect Alpharius and Omegon to think different.
 
Ragingbear21 said:
I still don't understand how we got to this point,
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Im staunchly anti-imperium so take it with a shiton of salt

But overall i have always thought the imperium is not sustainaible even without chaos

You have a expansionist empire that expands through new conquests (not impossible but is harsh on the economy)

The 18 transhuman super generals whose armies loyalties are nore tied to their commanders than the nation

A miriad of self hating and hating each other faction that make yugoslavia and the caucasus blush

Religious oppresed groups (imagine the sheer amount of rebel cells laying around)

And god knows how many repressed nations

But i think the biggest issue is that the imperium is built on raw utilitarism (sacrifices are worth it for achieving a better future)

But there is ALWAYS a new enemy to defeat,a new goal to achieve,a new height to reach in order on wich civilians are sacrificed

Ultimately a imperium that keeps on going through raw utilitarism is bound to have the same endless bloodspilling as the eldar empire,just that instead hedonism is done for "pragmatism"

The necesary evil "means to an end" are worthless is there isnt a actual end on sigth

And even the idiot stunted manchilds of the primarchs realized this
If things dont change by 40k they will still be expanding and killing in the name of unrecheable glorious future that will never get there
 
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Daedwartin said:
And that is sthe s

It helps to remember that in Canon, Alpharius was recovered basically as soon as his pod fell out of the warp, potentially on Terra. Omegon meanwhile was NOT found immediately. He was found later by Alpharius, with the canonical "discovery" having been pre-arranged.

We should of course expect Alpharius and Omegon to think different.
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In this timeline, since that lore was non-existent when we met the duo in the quest, they were actually discovered together. But still, they're similar and they actually put forth the effort to be able to replicate each other 100% if they should want to... and Kesar still knows. That's because he loves them and sees them as individual people, not as tools, enemies, or whatever else. So it's actually kinda more pronounced in a way that despite having the same shared background, they are still not a single person but two.

Edit: On top of this, they have slightly different skillsets and as such gained slightly different experiences over time. Omegon got infected by countless Nurglite Plagues whilst in the Garden, and Ahriman showed up and saved his life using the knowledge Isha provided. Alpharius did not have such an experience, so even in this one way the two are automatically made different. And I'm sure this isn't the only example of such a thing.
 
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How much do we know about the eta of the Blood and Thunder War in character? If we have a rough date for that we can say we need to get shit sorted so we have a solid foundation for that.
 
w34v3r said:
How much do we know about the eta of the Blood and Thunder War in character? If we have a rough date for that we can say we need to get shit sorted so we have a solid foundation for that.
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Somewhere between 20 years from now and eternity. Trying to predict the Orks and Khorne is not a task that tends to provide useful metrics beyond the bare minimum.
 
[X] Horus
[X] Guilliman
[X] The Masked Stagehand

Horus because he is a very competent bigger picture type of primarch. Rowboat Gorillaman because Fulgrim literally just suggested that we talk to him. The Calidus because I really don't want to ignore Malcador's assassin order, especially if might change some perspective options.
 
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[X] Guilliman
[X] Sanguinius
[X] Corvus and Magnus

Regarless of what wins i think we need to try to get Sanguinius, he is angry to us so we need to fox that and make him undestant our position, we have the oportunity to bring him to our side specially now since he has to fight the empire and emperor expy next turn.
 
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