Flagship Name

  • Spirit of Fire

    Votes: 21 47.7%
  • Vigilance

    Votes: 23 52.3%

  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
I got the impression actually that only even some of them got that much (specifically, Horus, Lion, Roboutte, Leman and Sanguinius) as off the top of my head those are the guys that Emps has a habit of specifically turning to and going "I need you to take care of this thing for me", besides Kesar who pretty much knows everything to a degree more advanced and desperate than any Primarch does, aside from the Twins and I guess Konrad.
Am Horus wasn't even included in that, the only reason he knows as much as he does was a bunch of Eldar trained putzes stole one of Kesar's runes related to it and arguably one of the worst diplomatically inclined Primarchs had to do a verbal minefield jaunt to avoid creating more tension and trouble but did it in such a way that he basically outlined the info for Horus to find without going too far.


I can confirm you did have a fairly large effect on him due to the options you chose for the ritual. He's going to be a bit more active socially for the Primarchs he thinks of as useful.

In the words of Kitten, "I'm scared."
 
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I should clarify as there has been some confusion over which Primarch knows what. IN terms of the knowledge of Archdaemons that's been given by the Emperor you've got Lion, Perturabo, Khan, Leman, Dorn, Konrad, Sanguinius, Guilliman, Mortarion, Vulkan, and the Twins.
 
How do you even explain Konrad inexplicably showing up to a conflict he should know NOTHING about in an AAR and try to sell it like "oh yeah, and Konrad was there and it was great".

That had to be the MOST RIDICULOUS BRIEFING EVER.
 
I should clarify as there has been some confusion over which Primarch knows what. IN terms of the knowledge of Archdaemons that's been given by the Emperor you've got Lion, Perturabo, Khan, Leman, Dorn, Konrad, Sanguinius, Guilliman, Mortarion, Vulkan, and the Twins.
And of that list, even after being pruned by the Emps, you already had some people for which the knowledge was redundant (and hilariously, from at least the Twins' perspective, blatant lies).

Which I think was Kesar, Twins and Konrad, I don't think anyone else has seen that far behind the curtain, even Khan who just kinda knows it's a bigger deal than other people think, but not the sheer scale of existential 'oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck' things really are.
 
And of that list, even after being pruned by the Emps, you already had some people for which the knowledge was redundant (and hilariously, from at least the Twins' perspective, blatant lies).

Which I think was Kesar, Twins and Konrad, I don't think anyone else has seen that far behind the curtain, even Khan who just kinda knows it's a bigger deal than other people think, but not the sheer scale of existential 'oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck' things really are.

Yeah, Kesar didn't quite figure it out fully independently although the Twins and Konrad did do so themselves. Konrad's as you said resulted in some interesting conversations.
 
Yeah, Kesar didn't quite figure it out fully independently although the Twins and Konrad did do so themselves. Konrad's as you said resulted in some interesting conversations.
I mean when Chaos habitually takes a MASSIVE fucking swing at your son every decade, you kinda have to tell him about the birds and the space bees.

"When a galactic civilization loves a concept very, very much, a Deity is formed, and then you have to kill it to double-death because regular death isn't good enough."

Only perhaps half as traumatizing as the real deal.
 
I mean when Chaos habitually takes a MASSIVE fucking swing at your son every decade, you kinda have to tell him about the birds and the space bees.

"When a galactic civilization loves a concept very, very much, a Deity is formed, and then you have to kill it to double-death because regular death isn't good enough."

Only perhaps half as traumatizing as the real deal.

"YOU SEE SON, SLAANESH WAS BORN WHEN THE ELDAR LOVED HEDONISM SO MUCH THEY FUCKED THE EYE OF TERROR INTO EXISTENCE. THAT GAPING MAW OF UNREALITY WAS ONCE THE HEIGHT OF CIVILIZATION IN THE GALAXY. NOW IT'S THE HOME OF AN ABSOLUTE DEGENERATE THAT NO ONE LIKES."
 
"YOU SEE SON, SLAANESH WAS BORN WHEN THE ELDAR LOVED HEDONISM SO MUCH THEY FUCKED THE EYE OF TERROR INTO EXISTENCE. THAT GAPING MAW OF UNREALITY WAS ONCE THE HEIGHT OF CIVILIZATION IN THE GALAXY. NOW IT'S THE HOME OF AN ABSOLUTE DEGENERATE THAT NO ONE LIKES."
"Gee Dad, perhaps are you building a giant funnel for adoration at the center of an 'enlightened' and yet highly insular galactic civilization, right this very moment?"

"... I DO NOT THINK I LIKE THE TONE YOU ARE TAKING, SON."

"Gee Dad, maybe I don't like the literal gaping asshole into Hell that you can see from half the galaxy away at all times?"
 
"Gee Dad, perhaps are you building a giant funnel for adoration at the center of an 'enlightened' and yet highly insular galactic civilization, right this very moment?"

"... I DO NOT THINK I LIKE THE TONE YOU ARE TAKING, SON."

"Gee Dad, maybe I don't like the literal gaping asshole into Hell that you can see from half the galaxy away at all times?"

"MOST PEOPLE DON'T, IT'S WHY PERTURABO IS THERE TO MAKE SURE THE SHIT IT SPEWS DOESN'T AFFECT ANYONE ELSE."
 
"Dad, we are literally about to launch a full-scale attack on Hell's Perineum, site of former Dark Age of Humanity worlds and research facilities. Thereby implying warp rifts formed by downward spiraling civilizations seem to hold basis in empirical fact."

"WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING? THAT MY PERFECT GOLDEN AGE OF HUMANITY WILL NOT COME TO PASS BECAUSE OF THE FAILINGS OF THOSE WHO STOOD IN ITS WAKE AND FLOUNDERED IN INADEQUACY?"

"If nothing else, the people taking part in this fantasy of speciest dominance are just as fallible as those aforementioned incompetents?"

"BUT THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE WRONG. I MEAN, YOU HAVE ALREADY PROVEN TO MEET LITERALLY EVERY EXPECTATION I HAVE SET FOR YOU AND IN FACT OVERSHOT THOSE ESTIMATES. CLEARLY WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK."

"...fucking, hoist by my own petard."

"NICE TRY, SON, MAYBE SUCK A LITTLE HARDER NEXT TIME."
 
"Dad, we are literally about to launch a full-scale attack on Hell's Perineum, site of former Dark Age of Humanity worlds and research facilities. Thereby implying warp rifts formed by downward spiraling civilizations seem to hold basis in empirical fact."

"WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING? THAT MY PERFECT GOLDEN AGE OF HUMANITY WILL NOT COME TO PASS BECAUSE OF THE FAILINGS OF THOSE WHO STOOD IN ITS WAKE AND FLOUNDERED IN INADEQUACY?"

"If nothing else, the people taking part in this fantasy of speciest dominance are just as fallible as those aforementioned incompetents?"

"BUT THAT IS WHERE YOU ARE WRONG. I MEAN, YOU HAVE ALREADY PROVEN TO MEET LITERALLY EVERY EXPECTATION I HAVE SET FOR YOU AND IN FACT OVERSHOT THOSE ESTIMATES. CLEARLY WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK."

"...fucking, hoist by my own petard."

"NICE TRY, SON, MAYBE SUCK A LITTLE HARDER NEXT TIME."

This sounds like our fella on the throne. If only this guy was in charge when the Emperor was trying to conquer the galaxy. He would have been a better father at least.
 
This sounds like our fella on the throne. If only this guy was in charge when the Emperor was trying to conquer the galaxy. He would have been a better father at least.
In TTS!Emps defense, he is literally fractured into a million million pieces and partially the coalescing psychic energies from countless psychically active souls being fed to him, and ten thousand years of concentrated belief in his innate benevolence and compassion (for humans).

They're basically two different people.

Though going by Star Child's behavior in TTS, it's clear that Emps is capable of being a father, if he wasn't currently pulling the emotional (and metaphysical) equivalent of deadbeat father about it.
 
For the Emperor's defense, Primarchs are all Grown-up Ass Men over thirties at least.😅
No... no this is a terrible defense.

The Primarchs aren't quite man-children, but their emotional maturity is plainly aberrant. One moment you will find them accomplishing Herculean tasks and leading men with all the charisma and machismo of Alexander the Great (or I guess Macharius, lol) and the next you will have them throwing a temper tantrum due to disrespect. Usually from the ones who are all about "oh, don't treat me like a demigod, I'm really down to earth" to some people and act like total hypocrites the moment their feelings are sufficiently hurt by someone with the clout and reputation to actually matter.

And when they're not acting like that, there's their own individual hang-ups, psychosis and insanity making them essentially impossible to manage on a parental level for anyone who isn't a Super Mom or Dad... which y'know, Emps could be, if he didn't take one look at trying to be that for twenty bundles of ego and rage and metaphorically and sometimes literally ran in the opposite direction.
 
No... no this is a terrible defense.

The Primarchs aren't quite man-children, but their emotional maturity is plainly aberrant. One moment you will find them accomplishing Herculean tasks and leading men with all the charisma and machismo of Alexander the Great (or I guess Macharius, lol) and the next you will have them throwing a temper tantrum due to disrespect. Usually from the ones who are all about "oh, don't treat me like a demigod, I'm really down to earth" to some people and act like total hypocrites the moment their feelings are sufficiently hurt by someone with the clout and reputation to actually matter.

And when they're not acting like that, there's their own individual hang-ups, psychosis and insanity making them essentially impossible to manage on a parental level for anyone who isn't a Super Mom or Dad... which y'know, Emps could be, if he didn't take one look at trying to be that for twenty bundles of ego and rage and metaphorically and sometimes literally ran in the opposite direction.

And the Emperor, in his vast wisdom, decided to cull them in Canon....

Yeah, it's worth the hair pulling and more.:o
 
Hard to do that if you form attachments.

Also hard to social and actually achieve productive use of your time invested in social-ing them if you don't open yourself to forming attachments.

The perfect catch-22. :V
 
Alright, I'm going to be calling the vote here. Looks like Kesar will be meeting with the Wardens and Magnus. Sorry for the lack of updates, but as I've said before this move for me has been a lot harder than I thought it would be.

Adhoc vote count started by Daemon Hunter on Jan 5, 2021 at 8:14 PM, finished with 118 posts and 34 votes.
 
Scheduled vote count started by Daemon Hunter on Dec 29, 2020 at 5:55 AM, finished with 119 posts and 34 votes.
 

You said ask this on SV:

47. Quite a bit more, he's got a folder concerning each of the projects as well as an analysis on Baldur's interactions within and without the Legion. He doesn't have the communications with Malcador though which Oriacarius doesn't like but isn't pushing against. He's also got a far more comprehensive psychological dossier on Baldur.

So I will! Mind explaining this further in a kinda comprehensive breakdown. Aka the analysis on Baldur's interaction within and without the legion. The psychological dossier on Baldur. The projects. His view in Baldur, etc?

I'd most definitely appreciate it boss! Whenever you got the time!
 
You said ask this on SV:



So I will! Mind explaining this further in a kinda comprehensive breakdown. Aka the analysis on Baldur's interaction within and without the legion. The psychological dossier on Baldur. The projects. His view in Baldur, etc?

I'd most definitely appreciate it boss! Whenever you got the time!

Alright so for Baldur he's one of the heroes of yours that has what I refer to as background actions. These effectively make up background fluff, but periodically have effects that can reach your level of abstraction. Maticus for example has improved the 3rd company to the point that it'll be breaking up for the Ritual and having its Sergeants make up the leads of 10 of the kill teams. As for Baldur, he's mainly focused on the diplomatic and intrigue parts of the Wardens, although he's been focused on projects that don't affect the Legion as a whole out of necessity as it simply doesn't get together all too often.

For Oriacarius himself, he's a paranoid man, and has spent his background actions compiling dossiers on a lot of your characters. For his dossier on Baldur there's four main parts of it. His interactions related to the Legion, interactions unrelated to the Legion, the psychological dossier, and a series of contigencies for if he would go rogue.

For Baldur's interactions within the Legion, Oriacarius didn't quite interrogate the Wardens, but he did essentially debrief them as if they were on an undercover mission. There he formed an analysis of Baldur that paints him in a semi-decent light. He's one of the older Wardens and other Astartes come up to him for advice from time to time. Generally Baldur gives them some pointers but warns them that he developed his skills in a manner that many of them won't actually go down. There's also his advice on cost-benefit, where he paints a more callous viewpoint than Maticus' training does. It's something Oriacarius is unsure what he thinks of it, but everything he's checked says there's nothing to worry about, so he's only added his normal contingencies.

For his interactions without the Legion, Oriacarius has a more complicated set of folders due to who Baldur interacts with. His exchanges with Malcador are simply something Oriacarius isn't allowed to access which grates on him. He's accepting of it as he understands the reasoning, but he certainly doesn't like it. His exchanges elsewhere though are easier to track. They mainly tend to focus around Baldur's projects concerning the diplomatic teams within Kesar's domain. He's essentially been working on collating the analysis of all compliances and then using that to find ways to improve the system. It's a complex project and one that's expected to take a while, but he's slowly working on it. That and also using it to slowly put moles within it that report to the Wardens in case it's needed. Oriacarius has loose ties to the people Baldur has interacted with, mainly just knowing how to get in touch with the less important ones and exchanging letters with the more important ones. The latter project of reporting to the Wardens though is something Oriacarius is actually interested in and tacitly supports.

For the psychological dossier, this is something I tend to keep more abstract as I'm not a psychologist. But for Baldur it tends to focus on his ruthlessness compared to other Wardens. He certainly doesn't waste lives, but he's far more callous about expending them than the Legion normally is. This leads to a psychological dossier that is more developed than the ones for other heroes as Oriacarius' paranoia kicked in. Essentially it's an analysis of his past compliances, projects, and interactions that covers why he made the decisions he did. Essentially it comes down to Baldur being more ruthless than other Wardens and being less loyal to Kesar personally than the other Wardens. It's for this reason that Baldur is tasked with a key part of the Godslayer contingency that will trigger if Kesar joins Chaos.

Lastly there's the contingencies for if he goes rogue. These tend to focus on cutting off Baldur from external contact and ordering him to be taking down quickly and at once. He's to be kept silent for the duration of the capture and the team that does so is chosen to be one of veterans that haven't interacted with him. Additionally it covers neutralizing his contacts outside the Legion in case he's set up a spy network for hostile powers. This involves working heavily with Malcador while deploying Astartes teams to the various sites. There's definitely more to it, but I like to keep this somewhat abstracted since Oriacarius is much better at this than I am.
 
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