Altered
Duality | Redeemed
- Location
- Terra
Our current action economy kinda sucks... so people might skip that in favor of other things. Just saying.
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The Lost Primarch Quest
- Thread starter Daemon Hunter
- Start date
Our current action economy kinda sucks... so people might skip that in favor of other things. Just saying.
- Location
- Elsewhere
This is definetely one of the biggest issues the Imperium has. The problem being that they rely on the warp for transport and communication, which means chaos gods can really screw with it. Moreover, warp storms cripple Imperium fleets. The Roubitan Heresy had some good examples of this screwing over Legions.
Edit: I will say that this is outside your expertise. Runes do help, but they can only do so much.
- Location
- western US
pretty sure emps big plan was to get the primarchs ready to defend the imperium while he figures out the webway.....at least partial seperation from the warp and orders of magnitude faster? yes please.
maybe we can talk the DM into letting us have action slots (with one being personal)? or maybe thats something that comes with more helpers like the admech did for research....hint hint hint
- Location
- Elsewhere
That is true, but I wanted to keep the actions low by design. However, I think I may have made the action count too low.
Yeah, he was trying to create a human webway, but I think it was said that it would be a millenia long project.
- Location
- western US
20 demi-god like commanders to hold off the chaos for 1000 years? sounds about right....might need more tho...
- Location
- US of A
This. We are in a universe where things occur in a scale hardly compared to other media. And the fact we're Primarchs and how slow our development process is is really jarring and leave us in a horrible position even when compared to our brothers. Like Magnus is already going deep into Warp Study...
Honestly, with how snail-pace we're going I'm concerned with our survival in the eventual Heresy.
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- Location
- western US
I would agree, if you are concerned with OP growth curves. try to look into ways besides stunting player choice...this is a quest, IE: a game, IE: a thing where the players do things. (I am honestly trying to say this without my gamer-mindset pushing me towards wanting MOAR POWAH and keeping a OOC, Non-gamer perspective of straight criticism.)
I would like to point out a handy graph that you can put diff games on.
one one side you have low-choice games like "choose your own adventure" which generally only has like half a dozen different endings which come as a result of only a dozen or so combinations of good or bad choices earlier on....(you can go farther technically...but if you only have 1 ending then its basically just a movie that you have to hold down "play" to watch, I personally do NOT count those as games by definition)...games like detroit: becoming human and The walking dead count as this.
in the middleish you have games which still have a limited set of endings/choices but at least have a "interval" of choices to reach there...so ME3 and most single-player games fit this spot as they give you the ablity to choose how to beat individual levels with a very wide range of tatics (sneaky/cunning vs brute power etc)
then you have games where the player is given lots of choices to do things but still some kind of rough end-goal to maybe-eventualy reach for. open-ended games like skyrim and fallout count as this.
on the extreme other end you have "sandbox" type games where the players are pretty much non-restricted and can do any one or hundred things amongst millions or even more....these games are almost always only fun because the player restricts themselves to a certain "meta-game" within the game where they force themselves to play by certain rules (at least once they get past the "messing around" and learning the boundarys of what the game lets them do, ).....games like garrys mod and minecraft count as this. (yes I know mine craft technically has a ending...but I'm pretty sure most people probably play the game for everything ELSE 99% of the time)
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- Location
- Elsewhere
Yeah, I'll probably add more actions for the players, but I'll try to space them into different categories so that things are a bit more limiting but you still have more actions. Right now I'm thinking
Great Crusade
Social
Research
Runes
Infrastructure
I'll think of a way to add them without suddenly changing things. I will also be having other polities grow. Also the Primarchs you have met.
Great Crusade
Social
Research
Runes
Infrastructure
I'll think of a way to add them without suddenly changing things. I will also be having other polities grow. Also the Primarchs you have met.
Dezron
In the Omnissiah we trust !
- Location
- Poland
Will you add some ideas that other players suggested as actions to take ?
Altered
Duality | Redeemed
- Location
- Terra
No offense, yeah. I was thinking like maybe 5 Actions overall. And the ability to up them by 1, making it 10 at most - with it being kinda hard to get that other action and from there just not allowing more. That said, it's your quest and I'd be fine with 5 actions at most or the current set up.
- Location
- US of A
Since we have Marines starting to improve Vallhala IV, maybe have trusted member of the Legion be delegated one aspect of the polities? Given they're skilled diplomats, they decided to assist their Primarch in regards of matters outside of research - - like arranging meetings with other Primarchs, improving the planets and even coordinate other projects. Just trying to make this as natural as possible.
...Maybe I'll write a Notable Marine for this very purpose. Later though; I still need to work.
...Maybe I'll write a Notable Marine for this very purpose. Later though; I still need to work.
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- Location
- Elsewhere
Yeah definetely.
Sure thing, I'll have that being the case, maybe with 2 actions in infrastructure at the start for the deal with the Mechanicus.
I like this idea, but I'm a bit unsure as to how I should implement it. I'll try to come up with something for it over the weekend.
- Location
- India
Is it possible remove nails from angron without killing him?
- Location
- US of A
Technically yes? But this will be an arduous process and will require large amount of time and resource, I reckon.
- Location
- Elsewhere
You can't actually remove the nails, you can mitigate the effects with a rune composed of Suppress*Anger + Maintain*Emotion. It also works if you replace Anger with pain to mitigate the other part of it. Nevertheless, this rune does require 4 paragon researches and 2 transcendant ones.
- Location
- western US
I bet that we might be able to make some runes that could help with that...runes of healing and/or calming anyone?
I think I like the idea of "unlocking" extra actions...makes it feel mroe earned. plus, you could make it so that its 5 actions plus K*X where the extra X comes at a eco cost with proportionality value K, you as DM can control the quests ramping by simply adjusting K....increasing it when you are concerned (might want to talk about it with quest-goers....most people are understanding I think) and decreasing it by giving us unlock opportunity.
the idea of also adjusting by having other groups ramp as well is good idea too....quests do need a feeling of progression I think.
- Location
- western US
this is AU so we cant predict based off canon...but I think its going to be quite some time as the great crusade happend THEN emps went off and started the webway project THEN the heresy happened....thats probably around a 1000 years at least I want to say?
I'd note that increasing actions is unlikely to actually fix the problem, just hide it better and exhaust the GM faster. Well proven across SB and SV quests.
What you need with a Primarch is increase the power of actions. They are extremely badass and get a lot done, but they can only be in one place at a time. This maintains the challenge of choosing which fire to put out, but wherever the Primarch hits the fire IS going to be put out, unless its outright impossible without primarch work.
I'd suggest a restructure as below:
-Research shouldn't be conflicting with other choices. Intellectual Primarchs like ourselves, Magnus and the like SHOULD always be doing one research automatically every turn just from thinking about things in transit(a battle barge is hardly a car, it can have proper labs if a primarch wants labs). If we were at peace being able to trade actions for more research makes sense, but we're at war and constantly moving, so theres no sense in doing so.
-Socials given the Warp shouldn't be open selection. Just bundle socials into deployment actions. The Primarchs are all too damned busy to take a separate trip just to chat, make it an event vote after choosing deployment, where you can get anyone in that theater or an adjacent one into one scene. Plus a semi-random one where other primarchs might seek us out.
-Infrastructure same as research, any administrator primarch SHOULD be able to delegate the build orders, they only need to indicate what priority is going on.
So I'd suggest the following example turn plan:
-Research Focus(Pick 1)
--<Insert research options>
-Administration Focus(Pick 1)
--Improve Infrastructure
--Uplift
--Cult hunt
-Force Deployment(Pick 1-3, divide forces between them)
--<Insert list of locations to intervene with Legion>
--Pick one of these locations for the Primarch to physically be present for.
Force Deployment triggering subsequent social vote for whoever is in the area.
What you need with a Primarch is increase the power of actions. They are extremely badass and get a lot done, but they can only be in one place at a time. This maintains the challenge of choosing which fire to put out, but wherever the Primarch hits the fire IS going to be put out, unless its outright impossible without primarch work.
I'd suggest a restructure as below:
-Research shouldn't be conflicting with other choices. Intellectual Primarchs like ourselves, Magnus and the like SHOULD always be doing one research automatically every turn just from thinking about things in transit(a battle barge is hardly a car, it can have proper labs if a primarch wants labs). If we were at peace being able to trade actions for more research makes sense, but we're at war and constantly moving, so theres no sense in doing so.
-Socials given the Warp shouldn't be open selection. Just bundle socials into deployment actions. The Primarchs are all too damned busy to take a separate trip just to chat, make it an event vote after choosing deployment, where you can get anyone in that theater or an adjacent one into one scene. Plus a semi-random one where other primarchs might seek us out.
-Infrastructure same as research, any administrator primarch SHOULD be able to delegate the build orders, they only need to indicate what priority is going on.
So I'd suggest the following example turn plan:
-Research Focus(Pick 1)
--<Insert research options>
-Administration Focus(Pick 1)
--Improve Infrastructure
--Uplift
--Cult hunt
-Force Deployment(Pick 1-3, divide forces between them)
--<Insert list of locations to intervene with Legion>
--Pick one of these locations for the Primarch to physically be present for.
Force Deployment triggering subsequent social vote for whoever is in the area.
- Location
- Lowton
Well given that the imperium had over a million words and the fact are legion has around 600 complied I would say we have no more than 20,000 right now.
I have no idea where that puts us in the crusade though.
- Location
- western US
yep, this should be a goal of ours...probably should ask Angron first tho, I would ASSUME that he wants it off as much as we do but who knows right?
probably can get magnus's help too and maybe even emps if we can make enough progress before he finds out....hopefully hes more reasonable about psykers this time around (I recall him banning them initally before.....??? happened).
also, theres (probably) no reason we can't get MULTAPLE grand-master (or at least master) runes to work together.....at the very least both versions of what hunter game (^^^).
I think I am going to put down a post tomarrow (if I remember) to hold a "list of things we should do" with a OOC section and a IC section...(sorry hunter, but OOC meta-gaming is basically unavoidable...might as well accept it and allow it to happen in ways you can obvserve)
- Location
- Elsewhere
I'm going to say right around the time Alpharius was discovered is the current year, so take that as you will.
I like the idea of extra actions costing something, the main issue is that I'll need to have some way to balance this, but you had a good argument for that. I'll have to find something to penalize extra actions though.
I have kind of been doing something like that, mostly having it be 1 social action, 1 research/social/infrastructure action, and 1 deployment. I do like the ideas you gave, they seem like they would work pretty well.
- Location
- Elsewhere
Feel free to have the OOC knowledge, I am trying to butterfly things, but part of the fun is using existing knowledge to make things better. For the runes though, the main issue is that they saturate they warp since they are essentially imposing their will on reality. The result is that its very difficult to have more than one active on a person at a time. I'm not going to say that it's impossible, just that its harder to have both sets of this rune active on Angron at the same time.
- Location
- western US
hm...maybe a rune-type we can eventually get is one that increases the capacity of the warp...so like the reverse of a blank. probably would do the opposite of what the humanity rune does(I assume humanity rune makes people like, more heathy and/or sane and/or less mutated) (and is likely similar level)...this would mean that we can always hypothetically stack X rune effects on someone, but they would not cost X runes but instead 2X or something like that.
I suggest listing our past reseachs and maybe techs too in a info-post btw and especally what rune-info we have...might need to evetually split it into several.
edit- OOOH I just realized! theres a cool narrative idea where someone decides to fight angron by throwing blanks at him (since he would presumeably have runic armor after we help him)....but then because the nails comes back while they are near and hes unprepared so he gets ....angry.....
and you won't like him when hes angry.....
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