Flagship Name

  • Spirit of Fire

    Votes: 21 47.7%
  • Vigilance

    Votes: 23 52.3%

  • Total voters
    44
  • Poll closed .
Again Primarch tier incompetence in the one thing we're supposed to be good at (cause boy are we not good at anything else) really drains me of any desire to try and constantly maguyver our way out of these situations. I mean omakes shouldn't be the lifeblood of this quest, they are simultaneously where the majority of the interesting story takes place and the only thing keeping us limping along. At this point I just read those instead of story updates, too depressing otherwise.
 
[] Perturabo Stage 3 Defenses - Quadruples Enemy Casualties, costs 120k PP
[] +10 to a roll of the GMs choice

i need to think about 2nd omake reward, so your thoughts? i tried to go beyond the Gothic art style as much possible. Hopefully, it will convey what sort of artstyle i want.
 
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Again Primarch tier incompetence in the one thing we're supposed to be good at (cause boy are we not good at anything else) really drains me of any desire to try and constantly maguyver our way out of these situations. I mean omakes shouldn't be the lifeblood of this quest, they are simultaneously where the majority of the interesting story takes place and the only thing keeping us limping along. At this point I just read those instead of story updates, too depressing otherwise.
What are you talking about? We have 60k Eternal Wardens with us. They managed to miss a single daemon during a gellar field flicker nobody even realized actually happened. We don't yet know what effect it'll have. It's entirely possible that our Alpha Legion buddies will notice before too long and handle it. We're doing fine in the main story updates. We've had issues, but this is 30k. We were always going to have issues. Don't go into this expecting us to turn into Serras and just become godlike in a few years, that is not the kind of quest this is.
 
What are you talking about? We have 60k Eternal Wardens with us. They managed to miss a single daemon during a gellar field flicker nobody even realized actually happened. We don't yet know what effect it'll have. It's entirely possible that our Alpha Legion buddies will notice before too long and handle it. We're doing fine in the main story updates. We've had issues, but this is 30k. We were always going to have issues. Don't go into this expecting us to turn into Serras and just become godlike in a few years, that is not the kind of quest this is.

Dude have you been reading the story updates? Look at our casualty numbers, since the beginning we've lost more than half our legion, we don't train recruits fast and due to qm fuck up we started with way less Astarte's than every other legion bar the Thousand Sons because he didn't research how many Astarte's were in each legion (which he then fixed for the other legions and not us).

I mean we run into (near) daemon worlds yearly which is goddamn insane for 30k, the Great Crusade lasted hundreds of years and if there were as many daemon worlds as this quest indicates the entire galaxy would have died long, long before the Heresy.

The final and worst part (to me) is how much worse even our regular fails are than our best crit success is good. I mean nothing we do makes actual progress regardless of our rolls but the moment we fail even a single check 15,000 of our dudes die. We honestly can't keep up with the attrition rate and I expect us to be combat ineffective (barring something changing) within 10 turns.
 
Again Primarch tier incompetence in the one thing we're supposed to be good at (cause boy are we not good at anything else) really drains me of any desire to try and constantly maguyver our way out of these situations. I mean omakes shouldn't be the lifeblood of this quest, they are simultaneously where the majority of the interesting story takes place and the only thing keeping us limping along. At this point I just read those instead of story updates, too depressing otherwise.

I think the main issue is, when starting off the Quest - Daemon was a little unfamiliar and trying to get a feel of things should work and run, so we were limited in actions and probably should have spent maybe 10 turns or so simply on Valhalla prior to Emps showing up, just getting stuff done and getting better. Now we are kinda fixing it, the issue is... well, we've now gotten hit by rolls that have rather shoehorned us into a corner of a box and we're trying to get ourselves out. The rolls kinda got the Emperor to go, well... you're meh, but you're good at dealing with these things. Not to mention, it should be noted that our main enemy here is Chaos, one of the most powerful factions at any given time in WH40k. Now, admittedly we're Anti-Daemon Faction - but we're more anti-Daemonic Combat and Resistance Faction vs spotting them, I feel like we should have our Anti-Daemon bonuses counted towards both fighting Daemons as well as the act of stealthing in on them and revealing them doing the same from us.

The story updates in my own opinion are decent and tend to inspire the Omakes, the issue is we had a really incentivized desire for Omakes early on which created such an atmosphere of "Omakes run this Quest". I will admit, I allowed myself to be drawn in by that somewhat. I will not lie. However, I would like to say thus: I've been more writing these omakes now, for the express purposes of putting ideas to word based off things that happened in the Updates. For example, the idea of Bader came when Eternal Wardens on Valhalla fell then someone wrote the Doom Slayer out of it. I then had an idea where I had one of the Marines wandering through the frigid wasteland thinking about that incident, he was a survivor of the incident. Anyways, ultimately he would die was the plan. It changed from there, obviously. I didn't write that one or as I stated quite a bit of my recent ones for rewards, but rather because I was rereading both updates and omakes and that idea came to me.

Anyways, moving back to the main point here. It should be noted everyone missed the fluctuation, and in all honesty, we're currently dealing with having upset quite a bit of Chaos, which doesn't make it surprising they're "narratively" doing their utmost best to take care of us. The battle of Gehena Station and the most recent Daemon World bit proves that "narratively" we're one of their biggest foes and doing the best to take us out.

The averageness/below it, denotes from the Questers decisions to imperatively and singlemindedly focus in on Warp Tech alongside a Champion Style Leadership/Fighting style as evident by our choice when confronting the Daemon on Valhalla. Now, obviously we're above average by Human standards at many things, but the issue is translation how below average for Primarch/average for them, translates to above average for humans and have to deal with having such supernatural and superhumanish alien foes.

I for one enjoy the quest still and shall be reading the updates. I'm sorry you feel that way, and perhaps further discussion in the thread with the various community members of it and the GM can aid in ensuring your feeling is noted and we are capable of fixing the current problem or issue. Alternatively, may I suggest PMing the GM and maybe select users that you believe that'll help with this issue?

Also to note: Likely won't be on here much longer for a good few hours, I've got to go record a Video for school, got to attend an Orchestra/Symphony event. So yay! (This is a sarcastic yay, btw.)

But for real, I'm sorry you feel that way @Noobody77 and I'm willing to bet some talking with Daemon would likely rectify this all and likely see some changes of sorts?

Edit: I'm sorry to note I did not read the post where you said all the stuff you kinda said was some of the issues. Later on tonight I'll read it since I just noticed and, hopefully respond to it/make an overall proposal to better the quest further if Daemon is particularly okay with that, alongnside you and the others here?
 
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And there's also the (pretty damn high) chance of unlocking conscious psychic powers. Magnus is a Sorcerer and Lorgar is a Cleric, but Kesar is being built like an (ironically) atheist Paladin.

So we've got a massive boost to combat, Warp Research, stealth, tactics, and corruption resistance to look forward to
 
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Dude have you been reading the story updates? Look at our casualty numbers, since the beginning we've lost more than half our legion, we don't train recruits fast and due to qm fuck up we started with way less Astarte's than every other legion bar the Thousand Sons because he didn't research how many Astarte's were in each legion (which he then fixed for the other legions and not us).

I mean we run into (near) daemon worlds yearly which is goddamn insane for 30k, the Great Crusade lasted hundreds of years and if there were as many daemon worlds as this quest indicates the entire galaxy would have died long, long before the Heresy.

The final and worst part (to me) is how much worse even our regular fails are than our best crit success is good. I mean nothing we do makes actual progress regardless of our rolls but the moment we fail even a single check 15,000 of our dudes die. We honestly can't keep up with the attrition rate and I expect us to be combat ineffective (barring something changing) within 10 turns.

I am sorry that you don't like the quest, but at the same time, I find you opinion on the attrition rate to be misinformed. If you check the Legion stats, you will note that you are above 100,000 Astartes. I will admit that I am still unfamiliar with running a quest and am still learning. At the same time however, as a GM I prefer to make make things realistic and fair to all parties. The main reason why you are dealing with chaos worlds, is that people specced the Legion against them. As such, the Emperor looked at what you are good at and set you up to deal with this. If you have suggestions on how to improve things, I'm happy to listen to them and incorporate those suggestions if I feel I can. Once again though, as Altered said, you are dealing with chaos and have scared them quite a bit. As such, they are taking steps to deal with you before you grow stronger, which makes sense in my eyes. I will also admit that I prefer to have fails be worse than successes, since it makes sense. At the same time, I try to keep the consequences of a fail realistic and fair. Again though, I think you are overreacting in the belief that the Legion will be combat ineffective in 10 turns.
 
Dude have you been reading the story updates? Look at our casualty numbers, since the beginning we've lost more than half our legion, we don't train recruits fast and due to qm fuck up we started with way less Astarte's than every other legion bar the Thousand Sons because he didn't research how many Astarte's were in each legion (which he then fixed for the other legions and not us).

I mean we run into (near) daemon worlds yearly which is goddamn insane for 30k, the Great Crusade lasted hundreds of years and if there were as many daemon worlds as this quest indicates the entire galaxy would have died long, long before the Heresy.

The final and worst part (to me) is how much worse even our regular fails are than our best crit success is good. I mean nothing we do makes actual progress regardless of our rolls but the moment we fail even a single check 15,000 of our dudes die. We honestly can't keep up with the attrition rate and I expect us to be combat ineffective (barring something changing) within 10 turns.
I really don't see where you are getting that idea from. We've lost so many troops because we actively split our Legion up. We don't have to. If we'd brought all of our forces to Abom we'd be doing fine. Instead, we regularly vote to aggressively handle additional threats. That's our own issue, and its entirely reasonable for us to get dinged hard by it. Beyond that, worlds run by cultists are still incredibly rare. With over a thousand worlds conquered per year in the great crusade, having 1 per year be kicked to us due to daemonic shenanigans there isn't so crazy.
 
I really don't see where you are getting that idea from. We've lost so many troops because we actively split our Legion up. We don't have to. If we'd brought all of our forces to Abom we'd be doing fine. Instead, we regularly vote to aggressively handle additional threats. That's our own issue, and its entirely reasonable for us to get dinged hard by it. Beyond that, worlds run by cultists are still incredibly rare. With over a thousand worlds conquered per year in the great crusade, having 1 per year be kicked to us due to daemonic shenanigans there isn't so crazy.
1/1000 still seems a bit high imo
 
Again though, I think you are overreacting in the belief that the Legion will be combat ineffective in 10 turns.
Truth be told the rate at which astartes can breed if they're just grabbing any suitable body like in the Great Crusade, even with picky geneseed is such that I think you're being about right.

I really don't see where you are getting that idea from. We've lost so many troops because we actively split our Legion up. We don't have to. If we'd brought all of our forces to Abom we'd be doing fine. Instead, we regularly vote to aggressively handle additional threats. That's our own issue, and its entirely reasonable for us to get dinged hard by it. Beyond that, worlds run by cultists are still incredibly rare. With over a thousand worlds conquered per year in the great crusade, having 1 per year be kicked to us due to daemonic shenanigans there isn't so crazy.
Eh that's more a problem with the setting since how common chaos worlds were before the HH is a bit hard to tell as far as I can see.

After all its not like anyone is identifying them as chaos worlds with chaos cultists or taking note of the chaotic iconography, they're just another world filled with lunatics which when there are thousands of other worlds filled with lunatics these ones don't stand out save for consorting with warp xenos and psykers with strange powers.

Its possible to note similar factors, but even still its much harder to judge, so again I think Daemon Hunters getting this about right since Chaos seems far more active in this setting vs canon.

1/1000 still seems a bit high imo
In canon maybe, but it seems like part of @Daemon Hunter's version of 40K is that chaos is far more active than it was in canon. Its not biding its time its actively subverting major organisations and trying to assassinate a primarch etc. rather than subtly subverting them or getting ready to.
 
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I would also like to point out that Chaos is out to get Kesar. We don't know it in character but chaos is out to get him. Also the Emperor gave us the job of attacking worlds with cultist and demons on them but did not tell us anything about chaos.
 
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That is insane, from an in-universe perspective it makes zero sense and from a meta perspective it makes even less. That in no way should have been a roll, at most it should have been a roll for the initial quality of what we could scrounge up not a yes/no is Big E sending you to die/get corrupted (we landed on yes).
You do realise that "canon" emps did exactly bugger all to counter act chaos despite knowing how dangerous it was.

In many ways him tasking a legion to counter chaos at all is a giant step up.

Also a bit misleading he did give us access to additional worlds to recruit from, including Terra.

Although I do agree rolling for somethings is a tad extreme...however things like potential chaos not so much.

Need I remind you two Primarchs were raised by chaos cultists and one got himself a connection to the eye of terror...cause that's a thing.

I would also like to point out that Chaos is our to get Kesar. We don't know it in character but chaos is out to get him. Also the Emperor gave us the job of attacking worlds with cultist and demons on them but did not tell us anything about chaos.
Emps makes stupid decisions news at 11.

I gotta appreciate the runner of a larp I did for the Council of Nikea. He had an excellent way of simulating "the mind of the Emperor at work."

We influenced it, but whenever he made a decision he just rolled a ****ing dice.
 
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Uh... did nobody delete one of his posts just now? I could've sworn there was another
 
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Yep he did.

I got a bit of it in my post.
Anyway, I think one of our problems is just lack of time. Narratively, it's lack of experience due to being on the crusade for barely a decade now. Mechanically, it's a lack of time on the homeworld to gain traits and bonuses as well as lowered Astartes count (temporarily) combined with more difficult targets. This will be corrected as time goes on and every daemon world we take gives us a trait, guaranteed. We'll be doing better and better as time goes on until we reach parity or better with the others. Rather than dying before turn 22, we'll be nearly invincible by then.
 
Anyway, I think one of our problems is just lack of time. Narratively, it's lack of experience due to being on the crusade for barely a decade now. Mechanically, it's a lack of time on the homeworld to gain traits and bonuses as well as lowered Astartes count (temporarily) combined with more difficult targets. This will be corrected as time goes on and every daemon world we take gives us a trait, guaranteed. We'll be doing better and better as time goes on until we reach parity or better with the others. Rather than dying before turn 22, we'll be nearly invincible by then.
I mean in part the reason we're not as good as the others is that we're dealing with over specialisation which I kinda get...but equally our legion spends most of its time preparing to fight the most dangerous being in the galaxy you think that would bleed over to other areas.
 
Anyway, I think one of our problems is just lack of time. Narratively, it's lack of experience due to being on the crusade for barely a decade now. Mechanically, it's a lack of time on the homeworld to gain traits and bonuses as well as lowered Astartes count (temporarily) combined with more difficult targets. This will be corrected as time goes on and every daemon world we take gives us a trait, guaranteed. We'll be doing better and better as time goes on until we reach parity or better with the others. Rather than dying before turn 22, we'll be nearly invincible by then.
also, every gene-seed research upgrade seems like it will further increase our recruitment rate. Plus we can get 10 more per gene-clinic, which costs what? 30 per planet? 10 astartes per year for 30 PP seems like a pretty good deal. Especially as our PP per turn grows. Hell, as it is now, we could spend all this pp we've saved up and get 3000 more astartes recruited per year.
 
I mean in part the reason we're not as good as the others is that we're dealing with over specialisation which I kinda get...but equally our legion spends most of its time preparing to fight the most dangerous being in the galaxy you think that would bleed over to other areas.

That's a fair criticism, so far I've mostly been giving upgrade options based on what happens during the combat. So this results in a feedback loop of becoming more specialized. I will be giving more generalized upgrade options, although they likely won't be as powerful as the specialized ones. +5 vs +10 for instance.
 
That's a fair criticism, so far I've mostly been giving upgrade options based on what happens during the combat. So this results in a feedback loop of becoming more specialized. I will be giving more generalized upgrade options, although they likely won't be as powerful as the specialized ones. +5 vs +10 for instance.
That should still be pretty useful overall. We've got plenty of the specialization stuff, having some more general benefits will be helpful.
 
That's a fair criticism, so far I've mostly been giving upgrade options based on what happens during the combat. So this results in a feedback loop of becoming more specialized. I will be giving more generalized upgrade options, although they likely won't be as powerful as the specialized ones. +5 vs +10 for instance.
Thing is I don't think things like that are likely to ever be picked since at the end of the day we are meant to be the anti demon legion. When our main enemy is going to be demons there's neither incentive nor really need to pick anything else at this stage both from an in character perspective and from out of character one given that we know what's coming.

If this was more of a strategic thing like the Scar's focus on hit and run tactics then it'd be all well and good and I wouldn't suggest this, but we're perfecting tactics against a specific kind of enemy and unlike orks they're the kind of enemy that is hilariously dangerous vs well pretty much any other foe.

The other legions presumably are amassing large numbers of the generic +5 and +10s they're incentivised to do so they're fight a much wider variety of enemies, so I'd propose something to compromise or at least stop us from falling so far behind.

Basically for generic combat rolls our marines get...I dunno +1/3 of their anti daemon bonus or something, representing the bleed over of skill needed to put down creatures that are a genuine 1v1 threat to marines.

I don't know how much our anti demon bonus is, but whatever an appropriate amount is should be enough to keep us from falling behind, but also not becoming completely OP.
 
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I am sorry that you don't like the quest, but at the same time, I find you opinion on the attrition rate to be misinformed. If you check the Legion stats, you will note that you are above 100,000 Astartes. I will admit that I am still unfamiliar with running a quest and am still learning. At the same time however, as a GM I prefer to make make things realistic and fair to all parties. The main reason why you are dealing with chaos worlds, is that people specced the Legion against them. As such, the Emperor looked at what you are good at and set you up to deal with this. If you have suggestions on how to improve things, I'm happy to listen to them and incorporate those suggestions if I feel I can. Once again though, as Altered said, you are dealing with chaos and have scared them quite a bit. As such, they are taking steps to deal with you before you grow stronger, which makes sense in my eyes. I will also admit that I prefer to have fails be worse than successes, since it makes sense. At the same time, I try to keep the consequences of a fail realistic and fair. Again though, I think you are overreacting in the belief that the Legion will be combat ineffective in 10 turns.

The reason I think we will be combat ineffective is stated in your post "I prefer to have fails be worse than successes". Dude we fail regularly, pretty much at least once (or more) every turn and some are way worse than others. I mean in one turn we lost half our legion (for little to no gain so far) and it's not even been ten years yet. All that has to happen is for the next ten to roughly the same.

Another thing is how insane Big E is in this setting I mean "the Emperor looked at what you are good at and set you up to deal with this" makes no sense. Of all the people in the galaxy he should know best how damaging, corruptive and powerful the Chaos gods are. They aren't like other factions and the fact that he sent us off against them with little to no support makes no sense in-universe unless he is purposefully trying to kill us or hand us to them on a silver platter (which to be fair given his canon actions to some of the other Primarchs isn't that unlikely) and from a meta perspective the fact that that was based on rolls is insane, at worst the rolls should have been for the quality of help we could get that year not for all time. I mean think about it man, in-universe he sent a single legion against the most dangerous and powerful enemy in setting with no backup and no support.

And next "I prefer to have fails be worse than successes, since it makes sense." i'm sorry but no it doesn't, if we get a super critical success it should be better than a regular fail. I mean last turn a fantastic roll followed by bad rolls by the enemy meant that we true killed some daemons, but it turns out that didn't matter at all because surprise they have about a billion (more like trillion) more and only seems to have made things worse for us.

And finally "At the same time, I try to keep the consequences of a fail realistic and fair". Dude you can't have a single turn kill half our legion and then try and say this, it just isn't true and while it is totally fine to run or enjoy hard mode unfair quests this wasn't marketed as one and as such i'm kinda bothered.

All that said I am glad this exists because a lot of people enjoy it and you presumably enjoy running it, and it spawns some great omakes that I like to read so I wish you the best but I don't think the main quest is for me anymore.

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Uh... did nobody delete one of his posts just now? I could've sworn there was another

Yeah I realized I was addressing it to the wrong person.
 
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