- Location
- Elsewhere
While this is possible, it is possible that the Emperor may not be so understanding.
This is valid, although do be warned you are basically outright threatenning the Consilium with this. Which could cause issues down the line.
The Lost Primarch Quest
- Thread starter Daemon Hunter
- Start date
While this is possible, it is possible that the Emperor may not be so understanding.
This is valid, although do be warned you are basically outright threatenning the Consilium with this. Which could cause issues down the line.
@Daemon Hunter How politically costly would it be to get the pardon for all the troops that were involved in the coup?
- Location
- Elsewhere
It depends on how much time Kesar wants to spend on it. If he just wants it to be agreed to immediately, then it'd be moderately costly overall. If he's willing to spend the time arguing for it, then it wouldn't cost anything. It's just in this case, that time may be better spent elsewhere.
Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
- Location
- United States
[X] Plan Cui Bono
-[1] Preventing Eli from voting - Having Eli vote for his own removal is clearly a conflict of interest. Surely the Consilium understands this and will prevent him from doing so? Nonetheless, it may be worth ensuring this occurs.
-[2] Removing Eli from power - While Kesar likes the man, it is clear that he cannot be allowed to remain in power. Guilliman tacitly supported a coup, and Corvus outright sent Astartes to support it. Leaning on the Consilium to remove him is a necessity.
-[3] Reform the office of Lord Commander Militant - Clearly the position of Lord Commander Militant is too unstable and top-heavy to be retained in its current form. Whosoever holds this position is effectively able to decide not only Imperial military policy but also, by way of promises of funding, Imperial monetary policy. These powers combined bring it far in excess of the authority of any other leading body in the Imperium save for perhaps the Mechanicum, which in turn leads to an excessive amount of liability when said power is used with restraint and an excessive amount of purchased popularity when said power is used without restraint. Thus it is, more than any other, volatile, and such volatility can lead to situations such as this one. If its powers were limited or divided, there would be less risk of such a problem occurring with such frequency again. Kesar's immediate suggestion would be adding a new position to the Consilium who would serve as the Imperial treasurer, whose responsibility is the balancing of the budget and by extension management of debt and monetary policy. Thus the Lord Commander Militant would not be able to unilaterally decide the Imperium's financial future.
-[4] Pardon the rank and file of the coup - If the coup forces feel as if they have nothing to lose, then they may try and burn down the palace. Skullface clearly hopes this will occur, and with Kesar pushing for it, it may even happen.
-[5] Avoid executing Skullface's inner circle - A difficult proposition, and one likely to be shot down immediately, Skullface's inner circle has proven to be exceptionally competent. If Kesar spends time campaigning for it, it may be possible to recruit them for the Wardens in a specialized penal unit.
-[X] Nothing but words - Following the laws and regulations of the Imperium is critical in tumultuous times. While it will bind him quite a bit, and risk an outcome he doesn't like, Kesar isn't so distrusting of the Imperium. Yet.
[X] Plan Cui Bono Alternative
-[1] Preventing Eli from voting - Having Eli vote for his own removal is clearly a conflict of interest. Surely the Consilium understands this and will prevent him from doing so? Nonetheless, it may be worth ensuring this occurs.
-[2] Removing Eli from power - While Kesar likes the man, it is clear that he cannot be allowed to remain in power. Guilliman tacitly supported a coup, and Corvus outright sent Astartes to support it. Leaning on the Consilium to remove him is a necessity.
-[3] Reform the office of Lord Commander Militant - Clearly the position of Lord Commander Militant is too unstable and top-heavy to be retained in its current form. Whosoever holds this position is effectively able to decide not only Imperial military policy but also, by way of promises of funding, Imperial monetary policy. These powers combined bring it far in excess of the authority of any other leading body in the Imperium save for perhaps the Mechanicum, which in turn leads to an excessive amount of liability when said power is used with restraint and an excessive amount of purchased popularity when said power is used without restraint. Thus it is, more than any other, volatile, and such volatility can lead to situations such as this one. If its powers were limited or divided, there would be less risk of such a problem occurring with such frequency again. Kesar's immediate suggestion would be adding a new position to the Consilium who would serve as the Imperial treasurer, whose responsibility is the balancing of the budget and by extension management of debt and monetary policy. Thus the Lord Commander Militant would not be able to unilaterally decide the Imperium's financial future.
-[4] Avoid executing Skullface's inner circle - A difficult proposition, and one likely to be shot down immediately, Skullface's inner circle has proven to be exceptionally competent. If Kesar spends time campaigning for it, it may be possible to recruit them for the Wardens in a specialized penal unit.
-[5] Pardon the rank and file of the coup - If the coup forces feel as if they have nothing to lose, then they may try and burn down the palace. Skullface clearly hopes this will occur, and with Kesar pushing for it, it may even happen.
-[X] Nothing but words - Following the laws and regulations of the Imperium is critical in tumultuous times. While it will bind him quite a bit, and risk an outcome he doesn't like, Kesar isn't so distrusting of the Imperium. Yet.
-[1] Preventing Eli from voting - Having Eli vote for his own removal is clearly a conflict of interest. Surely the Consilium understands this and will prevent him from doing so? Nonetheless, it may be worth ensuring this occurs.
-[2] Removing Eli from power - While Kesar likes the man, it is clear that he cannot be allowed to remain in power. Guilliman tacitly supported a coup, and Corvus outright sent Astartes to support it. Leaning on the Consilium to remove him is a necessity.
-[3] Reform the office of Lord Commander Militant - Clearly the position of Lord Commander Militant is too unstable and top-heavy to be retained in its current form. Whosoever holds this position is effectively able to decide not only Imperial military policy but also, by way of promises of funding, Imperial monetary policy. These powers combined bring it far in excess of the authority of any other leading body in the Imperium save for perhaps the Mechanicum, which in turn leads to an excessive amount of liability when said power is used with restraint and an excessive amount of purchased popularity when said power is used without restraint. Thus it is, more than any other, volatile, and such volatility can lead to situations such as this one. If its powers were limited or divided, there would be less risk of such a problem occurring with such frequency again. Kesar's immediate suggestion would be adding a new position to the Consilium who would serve as the Imperial treasurer, whose responsibility is the balancing of the budget and by extension management of debt and monetary policy. Thus the Lord Commander Militant would not be able to unilaterally decide the Imperium's financial future.
-[4] Pardon the rank and file of the coup - If the coup forces feel as if they have nothing to lose, then they may try and burn down the palace. Skullface clearly hopes this will occur, and with Kesar pushing for it, it may even happen.
-[5] Avoid executing Skullface's inner circle - A difficult proposition, and one likely to be shot down immediately, Skullface's inner circle has proven to be exceptionally competent. If Kesar spends time campaigning for it, it may be possible to recruit them for the Wardens in a specialized penal unit.
-[X] Nothing but words - Following the laws and regulations of the Imperium is critical in tumultuous times. While it will bind him quite a bit, and risk an outcome he doesn't like, Kesar isn't so distrusting of the Imperium. Yet.
[X] Plan Cui Bono Alternative
-[1] Preventing Eli from voting - Having Eli vote for his own removal is clearly a conflict of interest. Surely the Consilium understands this and will prevent him from doing so? Nonetheless, it may be worth ensuring this occurs.
-[2] Removing Eli from power - While Kesar likes the man, it is clear that he cannot be allowed to remain in power. Guilliman tacitly supported a coup, and Corvus outright sent Astartes to support it. Leaning on the Consilium to remove him is a necessity.
-[3] Reform the office of Lord Commander Militant - Clearly the position of Lord Commander Militant is too unstable and top-heavy to be retained in its current form. Whosoever holds this position is effectively able to decide not only Imperial military policy but also, by way of promises of funding, Imperial monetary policy. These powers combined bring it far in excess of the authority of any other leading body in the Imperium save for perhaps the Mechanicum, which in turn leads to an excessive amount of liability when said power is used with restraint and an excessive amount of purchased popularity when said power is used without restraint. Thus it is, more than any other, volatile, and such volatility can lead to situations such as this one. If its powers were limited or divided, there would be less risk of such a problem occurring with such frequency again. Kesar's immediate suggestion would be adding a new position to the Consilium who would serve as the Imperial treasurer, whose responsibility is the balancing of the budget and by extension management of debt and monetary policy. Thus the Lord Commander Militant would not be able to unilaterally decide the Imperium's financial future.
-[4] Avoid executing Skullface's inner circle - A difficult proposition, and one likely to be shot down immediately, Skullface's inner circle has proven to be exceptionally competent. If Kesar spends time campaigning for it, it may be possible to recruit them for the Wardens in a specialized penal unit.
-[5] Pardon the rank and file of the coup - If the coup forces feel as if they have nothing to lose, then they may try and burn down the palace. Skullface clearly hopes this will occur, and with Kesar pushing for it, it may even happen.
-[X] Nothing but words - Following the laws and regulations of the Imperium is critical in tumultuous times. While it will bind him quite a bit, and risk an outcome he doesn't like, Kesar isn't so distrusting of the Imperium. Yet.
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- Location
- USA
[X] Plan Cui Bono Alternative
[X] Plan Cui Bono Alternative Open
-[1] Preventing Eli from voting - Having Eli vote for his own removal is clearly a conflict of interest. Surely the Consilium understands this and will prevent him from doing so? Nonetheless, it may be worth ensuring this occurs.
-[2] Removing Eli from power - While Kesar likes the man, it is clear that he cannot be allowed to remain in power. Guilliman tacitly supported a coup, and Corvus outright sent Astartes to support it. Leaning on the Consilium to remove him is a necessity.
-[3] Reform the office of Lord Commander Militant - Clearly the position of Lord Commander Militant is too unstable and top-heavy to be retained in its current form. Whosoever holds this position is effectively able to decide not only Imperial military policy but also, by way of promises of funding, Imperial monetary policy. These powers combined bring it far in excess of the authority of any other leading body in the Imperium save for perhaps the Mechanicum, which in turn leads to an excessive amount of liability when said power is used withrestraint and an excessive amount of purchased popularity when said power is used without restraint. Thus it is, more than any other, volatile, and such volatility can lead to situations such as this one. If its powers were limited or divided, there would be less risk of such a problem occurring with such frequency again. Kesar's immediate suggestion would be adding a new position to the Consilium who would serve as the Imperial treasurer, whose responsibility is the balancing of the budget and by extension management of debt and monetary policy. Thus the Lord Commander Militant would not be able to unilaterally decide the Imperium's financial future.
-[4] Avoid executing Skullface's inner circle - A difficult proposition, and one likely to be shot down immediately, Skullface's inner circle has proven to be exceptionally competent. If Kesar spends time campaigning for it, it may be possible to recruit them for the Wardens in a specialized penal unit.
-[5] Pardon the rank and file of the coup - If the coup forces feel as if they have nothing to lose, then they may try and burn down the palace. Skullface clearly hopes this will occur, and with Kesar pushing for it, it may even happen.
-[6] Public votes - By default the Consilium will vote using a secret ballot. While this prevents them from bowing to public pressure, in this case, that is exactly what is needed.
-[X] Nothing but words - Following the laws and regulations of the Imperium is critical in tumultuous times. While it will bind him quite a bit, and risk an outcome he doesn't like, Kesar isn't so distrusting of the Imperium. Yet.
[X] Plan Cui Bono Alternative Open
-[1] Preventing Eli from voting - Having Eli vote for his own removal is clearly a conflict of interest. Surely the Consilium understands this and will prevent him from doing so? Nonetheless, it may be worth ensuring this occurs.
-[2] Removing Eli from power - While Kesar likes the man, it is clear that he cannot be allowed to remain in power. Guilliman tacitly supported a coup, and Corvus outright sent Astartes to support it. Leaning on the Consilium to remove him is a necessity.
-[3] Reform the office of Lord Commander Militant - Clearly the position of Lord Commander Militant is too unstable and top-heavy to be retained in its current form. Whosoever holds this position is effectively able to decide not only Imperial military policy but also, by way of promises of funding, Imperial monetary policy. These powers combined bring it far in excess of the authority of any other leading body in the Imperium save for perhaps the Mechanicum, which in turn leads to an excessive amount of liability when said power is used withrestraint and an excessive amount of purchased popularity when said power is used without restraint. Thus it is, more than any other, volatile, and such volatility can lead to situations such as this one. If its powers were limited or divided, there would be less risk of such a problem occurring with such frequency again. Kesar's immediate suggestion would be adding a new position to the Consilium who would serve as the Imperial treasurer, whose responsibility is the balancing of the budget and by extension management of debt and monetary policy. Thus the Lord Commander Militant would not be able to unilaterally decide the Imperium's financial future.
-[4] Avoid executing Skullface's inner circle - A difficult proposition, and one likely to be shot down immediately, Skullface's inner circle has proven to be exceptionally competent. If Kesar spends time campaigning for it, it may be possible to recruit them for the Wardens in a specialized penal unit.
-[5] Pardon the rank and file of the coup - If the coup forces feel as if they have nothing to lose, then they may try and burn down the palace. Skullface clearly hopes this will occur, and with Kesar pushing for it, it may even happen.
-[6] Public votes - By default the Consilium will vote using a secret ballot. While this prevents them from bowing to public pressure, in this case, that is exactly what is needed.
-[X] Nothing but words - Following the laws and regulations of the Imperium is critical in tumultuous times. While it will bind him quite a bit, and risk an outcome he doesn't like, Kesar isn't so distrusting of the Imperium. Yet.
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Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
- Location
- United States
Is it possible for there to be more than 5 topics/objectives @Daemon Hunter
- Location
- Elsewhere
You can, although anything at that point in the priority queue is something that Kesar isn't going to have time to push, and instead only have time to just suggest as an idea.
How much narrative time do we have for this anyway?
Slightly related note, but how much time does Orban plan on using for this?
- Location
- Elsewhere
You've got around a day, as the Consilium isn't willing to wait.
Orban expects this to occur over the course of a day, and he'll be using all of it.
Just for the sake of this, and also because I imagine another Princeps is going to say it, "But we can please have this meeting away from the Golden Throne? Right now, I rather we just discuss this away from the blinding light and headache it produces."
i imagine that so long as we keep Malcadore happy with Kesar he'll keep is dogs on a leash
- Location
- The Golden State
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Plan Cui Bono
-[1] Preventing Eli from voting - Having Eli vote for his own removal is clearly a conflict of interest. Surely the Consilium understands this and will prevent him from doing so? Nonetheless, it may be worth ensuring this occurs.
-[2] Removing Eli from power - While Kesar likes the man, it is clear that he cannot be allowed to remain in power. Guilliman tacitly supported a coup, and Corvus outright sent Astartes to support it. Leaning on the Consilium to remove him is a necessity.
-[3] Reform the office of Lord Commander Militant - Clearly the position of Lord Commander Militant is too unstable and top-heavy to be retained in its current form. Whosoever holds this position is effectively able to decide not only Imperial military policy but also, by way of promises of funding, Imperial monetary policy. These powers combined bring it far in excess of the authority of any other leading body in the Imperium save for perhaps the Mechanicum, which in turn leads to an excessive amount of liability when said power is used with restraint and an excessive amount of purchased popularity when said power is used without restraint. Thus it is, more than any other, volatile, and such volatility can lead to situations such as this one. If its powers were limited or divided, there would be less risk of such a problem occurring with such frequency again. Kesar's immediate suggestion would be adding a new position to the Consilium who would serve as the Imperial treasurer, whose responsibility is the balancing of the budget and by extension management of debt and monetary policy. Thus the Lord Commander Militant would not be able to unilaterally decide the Imperium's financial future.
-[4] Pardon the rank and file of the coup - If the coup forces feel as if they have nothing to lose, then they may try and burn down the palace. Skullface clearly hopes this will occur, and with Kesar pushing for it, it may even happen.
-[5] Avoid executing Skullface's inner circle - A difficult proposition, and one likely to be shot down immediately, Skullface's inner circle has proven to be exceptionally competent. If Kesar spends time campaigning for it, it may be possible to recruit them for the Wardens in a specialized penal unit.
-[X] Nothing but words - Following the laws and regulations of the Imperium is critical in tumultuous times. While it will bind him quite a bit, and risk an outcome he doesn't like, Kesar isn't so distrusting of the Imperium. Yet.
-[1] Preventing Eli from voting - Having Eli vote for his own removal is clearly a conflict of interest. Surely the Consilium understands this and will prevent him from doing so? Nonetheless, it may be worth ensuring this occurs.
-[2] Removing Eli from power - While Kesar likes the man, it is clear that he cannot be allowed to remain in power. Guilliman tacitly supported a coup, and Corvus outright sent Astartes to support it. Leaning on the Consilium to remove him is a necessity.
-[3] Reform the office of Lord Commander Militant - Clearly the position of Lord Commander Militant is too unstable and top-heavy to be retained in its current form. Whosoever holds this position is effectively able to decide not only Imperial military policy but also, by way of promises of funding, Imperial monetary policy. These powers combined bring it far in excess of the authority of any other leading body in the Imperium save for perhaps the Mechanicum, which in turn leads to an excessive amount of liability when said power is used with restraint and an excessive amount of purchased popularity when said power is used without restraint. Thus it is, more than any other, volatile, and such volatility can lead to situations such as this one. If its powers were limited or divided, there would be less risk of such a problem occurring with such frequency again. Kesar's immediate suggestion would be adding a new position to the Consilium who would serve as the Imperial treasurer, whose responsibility is the balancing of the budget and by extension management of debt and monetary policy. Thus the Lord Commander Militant would not be able to unilaterally decide the Imperium's financial future.
-[4] Pardon the rank and file of the coup - If the coup forces feel as if they have nothing to lose, then they may try and burn down the palace. Skullface clearly hopes this will occur, and with Kesar pushing for it, it may even happen.
-[5] Avoid executing Skullface's inner circle - A difficult proposition, and one likely to be shot down immediately, Skullface's inner circle has proven to be exceptionally competent. If Kesar spends time campaigning for it, it may be possible to recruit them for the Wardens in a specialized penal unit.
-[X] Nothing but words - Following the laws and regulations of the Imperium is critical in tumultuous times. While it will bind him quite a bit, and risk an outcome he doesn't like, Kesar isn't so distrusting of the Imperium. Yet.
- Location
- Reno Nv
[X] Plan Cui Bono
[X] Plan Cui Bono Alternative
[X] Plan Cui Bono Alternative Open
[X] Plan Cui Bono Alternative Open
- Location
- Bronx new york
[X] Plan Cui Bono
- Location
- Elsewhere
Do be aware that the Imperial Army will be strongly against this.
I might as well ask, then. "Why would they be against it, Daemon?"
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Nicholas Brooks
Redeemer and Destroyer
- Location
- United States
But of course. They want their guy to be able to print money for them. But at the same time, fuck them for that.
- Location
- Elsewhere
For that, it'd be because the IA has been chronically underfunded until Eli came along. And pulling that funding and ability to get that funding will be very unpopular among the IA.
This still makes me laugh then because if Skullface did assume control of the LCM, he would still tell people "You are still getting your funding for this quarter, you just aren't getting it next one, but so is no one else." and that oddly enough would buy Skullface enough good will as the generals in charge just go "Alright, fuck this then, time to stockpile and wait for Terra to pull their heads out of their asses again. Not like anyone but the Primarchs are giving orders anyway"
- Location
- Elsewhere
I will say that it'd still be quite unpopular, but less so than the current winning vote.
Less popular, yes, but I feel it's the more responsible option long term?
- Location
- Elsewhere
If you're referring to splitting off responsibilities from the LCM, it is the more responsible option in the long-term yes. It's just that the Imperial Army likes the current arrangement, and doesn't view it that way. They view their funding source remaining in their hands as a much better option long-term.
Queue several Primarchs having very pointed remarks about that last bit
I get the idea of letting them hold onto the power, but we're currently looking to be on LCM #3 within five years. It's looking pretty bad, yo.