The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 592 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 144 19.6%

  • Total voters
    736
the second, far more worrying approach is he realizes that the world that Saved isha will be defended by the empire of ashes, possibly to the death, and decides he likes the sound of that. He does not put together a task force to crush the trust, he puts together a crusade to crush the empire of ashes. He goes all-in because right here, right now? he can force the empire of ashes to commit, and commit heavily. they have a static comparatively soft, objective that they are honor-bound to defend. He swings at that as hard as he can, and he can force the empire of ashes into a stand-up fight where they have less than two sectors worth of ground to give. This is risky for him, since it means pulling together a massive Black crusade when he's already shaky and his throne world is a ruin, but Nurgle will absolutely back him to the rotting hilt in this, and i'm honestly not sure if zeentch will care to stop him because that thing is terrified of us doing a dumb and ending the galaxy.
I just can't imagine him doing this when the Void Dragon is busting out of his prison.

He could probably win that fight against the Empire of Ashes, but the losses would guarantee he'd lose against the Void Dragon.

Also I doubt the Empire of Ashes would really commit to that sort of suicidal defense. If Abaddon musters enough forces to actually destroy the Empire of Ashes they'll probably just help us evacuate as much as possible instead of defending us to the last.

I think that regardless we need to start looking at Ether Drive equipped defenses and building a pile of Trelleborg class Starforts to move around the Trust like ghetto command battleships. Fixed defenses are a small fraction the cost of warp capable warships, and the current circumstances leave us with basically nothing we really need to build a fleet to assault. We can build up massive defenses instead of increasing the fleet. The crusade will strike targets in the Trust alone the way most likely, but it will have to point its main thrust at Avernus. Avernus is where the people actually involved in destroying Cadia and rescuing Isha are. This gives us an advantage in that we can stack up a ton of fixed defenses around Avernus and leave lesser defenses at the other planets along the way. Or have the other planets start with the Trelleborgs to discourage attacking them and then have them move in to support Avernus after the attack is committed. A relief fleet consisting of starforts has its own amusement factor.

We can also put ether drives on our shipyards and just have them patrol around. Ether drives can just wander around without asking for disaster like Warp drives, and because they are FTL still they can't be attacked while in motion. So they can just all clown around until the enemy is finished. Or we could be lame I guess and just move the shipyards to a system that isn't being attacked.
 
If you make them that realistic you might as well build actual shipyards.

And if they are not realistic it would be blatantly obvious. Namely that no ships would be produced. Since they are fake.
again, I'm not so sure....sensors are not going to be so powerful/exact as to detect the exact contents of shipyards through their hulls (even if that hull is mostly empty): thats why I'm asking durin where he'd place the rough effectiveness.

at the LEAST, I would expect most ork fleets (and maybe Tau, or a less-then-top-notch chaos fleet) to get fooled at least for a while.

again, this is NOT to counter the current chaos fleet.

also: why woulden't it be much cheaper? we don't have to pay nearly as much for the hull since 50% would be empty (or there abouts), and the reactor could be made much smaller (and also not redundent, they don't need to last long) and we woulden't have to install any of the parts/supplys/men/training/fuel for normal operations....and we'd only have to operate them during the ACTUAL invasion.

Namely that no ships would be produced. Since they are fake.
fights dont' go on for the months/years that it takes for ships to be made so its not like they are going to (not) observe ships being built.
 
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We can also put ether drives on our shipyards and just have them patrol around. Ether drives can just wander around without asking for disaster like Warp drives, and because they are FTL still they can't be attacked while in motion. So they can just all clown around until the enemy is finished. Or we could be lame I guess and just move the shipyards to a system that isn't being attacked.
actually, this would be pretty cool and probably worth the investment of either drives.

now, obviously its (probably?) not worth putting either drives on ALL of our shipyards....

but add either drives to at least a handful of our shipyards and it would MASSIVELY decrease the recovery time of a particularly bad invasion since we'd be able to hide a few of them away during said invasions...returning them to rebuild once its over.

right now we are fairly vulnerable to an invasion leader being smart and crippling our space navy....with this we could hide them in the middle of space, basically unfindable to anyone not specifically looking for them (and for many who are!).
 
Sorry for putting this while a serious discussion is on (and for the long post). But in my sleepy mind, that already forgot this once, so I wished to post these ideas for why Stars have a anti-chaos but can be corrupted (with lots of difficult).

My first idea is that multiple narrative effects are helping the stars, like in the same effect that silver work against daemons because we believe in the purity of silver (that in RL has some anti-bacterial effects). So since Stars can bend space they can affect the warp to some degree, and by other things like consuming things as fuel, our believe of stars as sources of life (and death) and our certainly that if we went inside a star we would die it give them lot of narrative powers from believers that probably exist even before the warp was a thing.

The second one would be the 'primal warp' because since plants, animals and other living things need the sunlight (or other star) to live, so I can see it having a more 'pure' and more 'primal' presence there which (kind of) opposite chaos for being part of the 'natural order'.

the third idea is more or less just a part of the first one. Since Stars give life and death (even to C'tans) so they 'fight' entropy until their destruction. And I would not be surprise if a star can use some stuff as fuel to prologue their 'lives' that in RL don't exist (consuming the warp around them)

Now how things like black holes, Hadex Anomaly and so many other shenanigans like stars being use one way or another to kill lots of daemon in these Eons I have no idea how they act.
 
I just can't imagine him doing this when the Void Dragon is busting out of his prison.

He could probably win that fight against the Empire of Ashes, but the losses would guarantee he'd lose against the Void Dragon.

It would be the wrong strategic move, yeah, but abandon is known to make mistakes when his blood is up, and his blood is most certainly up right now.

Also I doubt the Empire of Ashes would really commit to that sort of suicidal defense. If Abaddon musters enough forces to actually destroy the Empire of Ashes they'll probably just help us evacuate as much as possible instead of defending us to the last.

possibly. Remember, calling in an honor-bound is the kind of thing that can have a faction cripple itself for decades to fulfill. So in-universe, he could expect the empire of ashes to commit a lot of forces to an engagement that's a hell of a lot more in his favor than he can usually fight them on. Its at least within the realm of possibility.
 
while in this case it is not particularly useful since this enemy will likely attack multiple locations (and thus, we'd have to build multiple sets of fake shipyards, one for each planet with a real one in the path of possable destruction) and theres a decent chance it doesn't fool the enemy....

but in the future it might be nice to know. I could very easily see orks (and maybe chaos albiet less likely) get fooled by it for example. they woulden't even be able to tell somethings off till they got close enough to board in all likelyhood. combine this with the potential for a enemy to decide to focus on just one planet *, and we might be able to fool a enemy into thinking they did more damage then they actually did.

*less likely then in the past as we have bigger enemys and more planets, but it is still possible that we know ahead of time that they will focus on a planet (especally since ridcully is pretty good at that).

BTW: we should probably assume that they send a general who has a martial trait that counters other martial traits since abbadon probably knows of rotbarts past successes by now.

@Durin
1): how much cheaper would building fake shipyards be (then fake ones I mean).
2): how much faster?
3): how effective would such fakes be? I assume basically anyone would figure it out once they have boarded it....but...?
3a): against orks?
3b): against average chaos policy?
3c): against a Tau?
1. around a tenth the time and price
3. works vs ors, chnce of being stopped vs Chaos
fails vs tau
 
If Abbadon knows anything about Avernus he will try to hurt the rest of the Trust whilst Nurgle keeps Avernus occupied with an incursion. He's going to plan around "suddenly a ridiculous Avernus hero ball apperared" and he's good enough to succeed at planning around us.

Our Alpha Marines have a hell of a job on their hands now, even for them. Hopefully trying to piece together a functioning administration since his old one is now an asteroid cloud will take too long for Abby to look into and organise a response to us in time for Nurgle's revenge attempt.
 
If we manage to discover Abbadon's invasion plans, perhaps we could somehow use our divinations to discover ways to delay and damage the invasion.

I am talking about nudging orc fleets in the direction of his ships. If we can get some Omega Legion on his ships, maybe we could even manage to have a series of unfortunate accidents occur.

I am under no illusion that this will stop the fleet. I am just hoping that we can weaken it slightly and perhaps slow it down enough that Nurgle cannot coordinate his incursion with Abbadon's invasion.
 
If we manage to discover Abbadon's invasion plans, perhaps we could somehow use our divinations to discover ways to delay and damage the invasion.

I am talking about nudging orc fleets in the direction of his ships. If we can get some Omega Legion on his ships, maybe we could even manage to have a series of unfortunate accidents occur.

I am under no illusion that this will stop the fleet. I am just hoping that we can weaken it slightly and perhaps slow it down enough that Nurgle cannot coordinate his incursion with Abbadon's invasion.

I mean there is one way we could probably stop him, at high risk... kill him. It's doable if we assemble something like the dream team with full Eldar support, but we can't afford to destabilize the Black Imperium with the Void Dragon incoming. So the question becomes does Abadon understand the risk, is he aware of the fact that if he does draw the Empire of Ashes out and deals a killing blow he has a good chance of not seeing the victory?
 
what if we create a distraction for Abadon , the Quartus Imperium is right on his border right ? so how about Rids divines all the information the primarches would need to lunch a massive and successful offensive on the black imperium giving them info on every thing from defenses , troop deployments ,security , fleet composition ,whatever nasty surprises the defenders may have in store ,what reinforcements the enemy can bring to bare with there arrival data and location , the best and safest warp lanes and info an any demons they might run into .

with Cadia the administrative command and control center of the Black imperium gone , the factions of the various chaos gods and there demons at each others throats playing the blame game for what happened to Cadia and the rituals as well as exploiting any opportunity at the assumed weakness and rise of there rivals ,Abadons authority is likely being openly questioned for the first time in centuries and he has already spent who knows how many fleets fighting the nids and that level 4 we sent his way . so to summarize the Black Imperium has never been more vulnerable and open for outside attack , so we should endeavor to make sure said attack happens and is as devastating and successful as possible
 
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what if we create a distraction for Abadon , the Quartus Imperium is right on his border right ? so how about Rids divines all the information the primarches would need to lunch a massive and successful offensive on the black imperium giving them info on every thing from defenses , troop deployments ,security , fleet composition ,whatever nasty surprises the defenders may have in store ,what reinforcements the enemy can bring to bare with there arrival data and location , the best and safest warp lanes and info an any demons they might run into .

with Cadia the administrative command and control center of the Black imperium gone , the factions of the various chaos gods and there demons at each others throats playing the blame game for what happened to Cadia and the rituals as well as exploiting any opportunity at the assumed weakness and rise of there rivals ,Abadons authority is likely being openly questioned for the first time in centuries and he has already spent who knows how many fleets fighting the nids and that level 4 we sent his way . so to summarize to Black Imperium has never been more vulnerable and open for outside attack , so we should endeavor to make sure said attack happens and is as devastating and successful as possible
I would advocate for such a large scale attack after the Void Dragon is defeated.

Hopefully Abbadon will bleed his forces against it and any invasion by the Sane Powers will face significantly less resistance. If we attack him now and wreck his forces, there is a good chance the Void Dragon will just sweep us both.

That is my two cents at least.
 
The Effects of the Ritual on Avernus
The Effects of the Ritual on Avernus

The thinning of the veil initially seemed to have little effects on Avernus, most of the wildlife operating on relatively small amounts of power in the first place. That is not to say, however, that there were no consequences. Indeed some were rather major.

The Peoples

At present all known peoples possess powerful psykers in one form or another. As such feats that were once far more limited have become much more common. This compounds with the innate control that most Avernite Peoples have over their abilities to make already terrifying Avernites exceptionally more dangerous.

For example, Troll shamans have been observed using their geomancy on an unprecedented scale, changing the internal and external components of entire mountains single handedly to acquire raw materials for processing into their burgeoning industrial economy.

In general, this mirrors a trend in Peoples attempting to both grow more organised and improve their defences. For those not already starting well in advance, watching the World Serpent in action prompted them to begin. This trend does predate the ritual, but the knowledge of the vast incoming incursion has whipped them into a further frenzy.

Alliances are forming between the Nynye Hierarchies and Trolls, the Sirens are communicating and coordinating where they can, the pixies of the woods are seeming to weave layers of enchantments, Dragons put aside their differences to train and are even paying for food from Avernus so as to grow as large and strong as possible for the coming conflict and so on.

Everywhere possible the Peoples are readying.

Well they should, for it is far too likely that they will be wiped out.

The most striking of these preparations are those of the Lizardmen. With the promise of Isha resurrecting their true lords, all remnants of the past 60 million years of conflict seem to have been expunged. Saurus, Skink and Kroxigor work together to expand their defences to a scale never before seen on Avernus. At the same time, emissaries go out across the world, intent on providing advice and aid where they can.

Yet still, all eyes look to the poles as the aurora of Avernus constantly turns a sickly green.
======================================================================
Duat

This region of Avernus has always had a weaker barrier between the warp and reality than in other areas, owing to an experiment performed there millions of years ago. This has necessitated a permanent detachment of the Guardians known as the Sphinxes who slay any daemons that emerge and shut down the warp gates used.

The ritual weakening the veil further causing a spontaneous explosion of daemons pouring through the now paper-thin veil of the region, something seemingly expected by Avernus.

Significantly more Sphinxes had emerged, situated across the region, while the Sun Beetles started to swarm in by the thousands.

When the daemons emerged it was to a crossfire of lance level attacks and a barrage of conceptual locks, as the Sphinx seemed to treat the entire region as a warp rift, shutting it down and preventing the daemons from gaining a foothold.

The battle was over in a matter of days, even with the enhanced strength of the daemons, the World Serpent unleashing a handful of attacks from its scales which annihilated any remaining hold outs.

Even now more Sphinxes remain to guard the veil, but the increased threat appears to be contained... for now.

As it stands the Duat is a hot bed for the additional changes afflicting Avernus, with warp creatures and geography able to slip in and out of the region. In fact there are a few cases of humans accidentally doing the same.
======================================================================
The Wildlife

Much of Avernus's wildlife was unaffected due to their low levels of power, but mere months after the ritual occurred, Avernus has already started to deploy creatures designed to take advantage of the increased power levels, averaging from gamma to beta (although none so far have been found to be alpha level for unclear reasons.) Many of these are new creatures, but others are variants on old ones, like colossal Thundabeasts designed to anchor and amplify the effects of their collective shield.

Furthermore, the weakening is causing the warp ecosystem of Avernus to bleed into its real space one. Creatures, before seen only by psykers, can be found spontaneously appearing and meandering through Avernite streets.

This has unleashed a new wave of horrors upon Avernus, as these warp creatures represent some of the strongest monsters Avernus has yet had to offer outside of the caverns and the deep sea.

======================================================================
Geography and Environment

Similar to creatures of warp fauna and flora emerging into reality, parts of the ecosystems that those creatures come from are also randomly merging into reality.

Random events are occurring that should be impossible within the normal laws of reality, areas of strange structures, alien ecosystems spontaneously appearing and reappearing, and other strange occurrences are happening across regions formerly thought to have a relatively stable realspace.

However alien Avernus was, it has suddenly become even stranger.

======================================================================
Humans

As was already known, Avernus seems to have started pushing for the stability of human psykers shortly before the ritual started, and its efforts are only accelerating, as seem to be its other investments in the human genome.

How much progress it will make before the incursion occurs is presently unclear.

Furthermore, cultist numbers have increased dramatically, as have their danger owing to how easy it now is to summon daemons. Avernus has never been safe from corruption, but the weakening has made it even easier for daemons to work their spells upon the mad, the greedy and the desperate. The over all increase is significant in terms of percentage, but it is still well within containable limits. This is not unique to Avernus, it is merely more pronounced.

Additionally and adding more confusion is the fact that many of the Cultists are Nurglish in nature, indicating the God's increased focus upon the World. How much this is inflating the numbers of cultists is unclear.

======================================================================
Ghosts

Referring to a phenomenon of ethereal figures that will often appear shortly after someone's death, these ghosts so far have been mostly non-hostile, and unable to interact with reality. They do however, exhibit traits and reactions of the recently deceased.

Whether they are in fact the actual souls of Avernites, or impressions left on the warp by their presence, they eventually fade away without leaving a trace.

For some Avernites this presence is comforting, others it is abhorrent. Whatever the case is, it is causing uncomfortable questions to be asked as to our afterlife.

This phenomenon is not unique to humans on Avernus so far. Other Peoples experience them as well and are purportedly experimenting.
================================================================================================================
Hopefully some of its right.

@Durin
 
For how we spend favours against Abbaddon it depends on if he plans to force an engagement with the eldar using us or not. If not we can pour favours into eldar armies and defence support.

But if he does want to force the eldar into a fight I say we spend the majority of our favours tearing down the eldar props for the BI and then some. Only use the minimum favours for Defense we can and try to attack BIs weak point to tear it down. This plays to eldar strengths to about trying to avoid pitched fights and all.

Now is this viable or am I talking out my ass?
 
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what if we create a distraction for Abadon , the Quartus Imperium is right on his border right ? so how about Rids divines all the information the primarches would need to lunch a massive and successful offensive on the black imperium giving them info on every thing from defenses , troop deployments ,security , fleet composition ,whatever nasty surprises the defenders may have in store ,what reinforcements the enemy can bring to bare with there arrival data and location , the best and safest warp lanes and info an any demons they might run into .

with Cadia the administrative command and control center of the Black imperium gone , the factions of the various chaos gods and there demons at each others throats playing the blame game for what happened to Cadia and the rituals as well as exploiting any opportunity at the assumed weakness and rise of there rivals ,Abadons authority is likely being openly questioned for the first time in centuries and he has already spent who knows how many fleets fighting the nids and that level 4 we sent his way . so to summarize the Black Imperium has never been more vulnerable and open for outside attack , so we should endeavor to make sure said attack happens and is as devastating and successful as possible
You are severely underestimating what he'd need to kill us. Unless the black imperium is facing an existential threat he'll always have enough stuff to kill us.

Further more while he is being challenged, Cadia wasn't his admin centre it was his prestige piece, to say nothing of the fact that sans him being questioned the black imperium is stronger than ever between the dark eldar tech, the power boost of the ritual and the super weapon that is the avatar.

His fleets are rebuilt, his armies empowered, his forces now practically endless cause sorcerers.
 
For how we spend favours against Abbaddon it depends on if he plans to force an engagement with the eldar using us or not. If not we can pour favours into eldar armies and defence support.

But if he does want to force the eldar into a fight I say we spend the majority of our favours tearing down the eldar props for the BI and then some. Only use the minimum favours for Defense we can and try to attack BIs weak point to tear it down. This plays to eldar strengths to about trying to avoid pitched fights and all.

Now is this viable or am I talking out my ass?

That sounds very noble and all but Abadon is not an idiot, if he aims to make an Eldar trap than the minimum number of favors we will need to survive will bring more than enough eldar into play to cripple them. There is no magical favor ratio we can call on to survive and lose less Eldar lives than he anticipates because our own forces are barely a rounding error besides both the Black Imperium and the Ynnari. If Abadon goes all out the only Avernite forces likely to be relevant are the heroes.
 
what if we create a distraction for Abadon , the Quartus Imperium is right on his border right ? so how about Rids divines all the information the primarches would need to lunch a massive and successful offensive on the black imperium giving them info on every thing from defenses , troop deployments ,security , fleet composition ,whatever nasty surprises the defenders may have in store ,what reinforcements the enemy can bring to bare with there arrival data and location , the best and safest warp lanes and info an any demons they might run into .

with Cadia the administrative command and control center of the Black imperium gone , the factions of the various chaos gods and there demons at each others throats playing the blame game for what happened to Cadia and the rituals as well as exploiting any opportunity at the assumed weakness and rise of there rivals ,Abadons authority is likely being openly questioned for the first time in centuries and he has already spent who knows how many fleets fighting the nids and that level 4 we sent his way . so to summarize the Black Imperium has never been more vulnerable and open for outside attack , so we should endeavor to make sure said attack happens and is as devastating and successful as possible
scale is wrong, the Black Imperiums Core territories are over a dozen the size of the Quartus Imperium, with its vassals doubling that
when that is combined with Chaos' greater strategic speed and spread out industry any attack able to cause significant damage right now would leave the Quartus Imperium critically overstretched at best
right now the Black Imperium controls around 10% of the gaalxy directly and another 10% though vassals
when the big imperial successors generally have around 1%

EDIT: Also the gods of Chaos are no more at theit throats then normal, the Black Imperium is pretty decentralised so losing Cadia was no way a critical blow and there is now way for even Ridcully to divine enough infoamtion to provide all of those benifits. He can find anything, everything is a bit to much for him
 
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scale is wrong, the Black Imperiums Core territories are over a dozen the size of the Quartus Imperium, with its vassals doubling that
when that is combined with Chaos' greater strategic speed and spread out industry any attack able to cause significant damage right now would leave the Quartus Imperium critically overstretched at best
right now the Black Imperium controls around 10% of the gaalxy directly and another 10% though vassals
when the big imperial successors generally have around 1%

EDIT: Also the gods of Chaos are no more at theit throats then normal, the Black Imperium is pretty decentralised so losing Cadia was no way a critical blow and there is now way for even Ridcully to divine enough infoamtion to provide all of those benifits. He can find anything, everything is a bit to much for him
Geez. In the words of Vlad Tepes: "If the Black Imperium was even as efficient as the Imperium it would have conquered the galaxy by now."

Hope the Eldar stop propping them up. The BI can slowly collapse or someth.
 
Geez. In the words of Vlad Tepes: "If the Black Imperium was even as efficient as the Imperium it would have conquered the galaxy by now."

Hope the Eldar stop propping them up. The BI can slowly collapse or someth.

It's worth remembering the galaxy needs them to stop the Void Dragon. The Avatar of Khorne is the only thing we know of what might be able to fight on the level of that thing and it will need a hell of a lot of sacrifices and sorcerers to summon.
 
@Durin , it doesn't really matter now, but since Lin sacrificed his life for that of the Primarch, could researching the Law of Costs have affected his rolls?
 
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