The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 592 80.3%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.7%

  • Total voters
    737
From the discord


Even if they don't have a paragon of industry, I think buying a Paragon of some description with the STC constructor is something we should do. There are three reasons why I think we should do it.

1. It gets us a new paragon for basically nothing. The STC constructor is of no more value to us; we've gotten all the tech we can get out of it and it's not doing anything but being the target of pilgrimage. A new technological paragon, on the other hand, would be hugely beneficial for us. Not only materially, but politically, as it introduces a massively holy person to the Trust (high Learning=high holiness in Cult Mechanicus) who would be in favour of progressive policies.
2. The broken STC constructor might actually benefit Callamus. The Forge-Empire of Callamus is massive, covering eighty sectors as of 236.M46. Politics, prestige, pilgrimage, soft power, etc. actually matters in a polity of that size. Getting the closest thing to the Mechanicus' holy grail would be a notable boon to Callamus, as it would give them a good deal more political capital and influence over its many subordinate forge worlds. It should make up for the loss of a paragon at least somewhat, possibly even entirely if they're willing to make the trade.
3. It draws attention away from us. If Callamus ends up with the broken STC constructor, people's assumptions are going to be that the massive technological uplift came from them finding it in some obscure planet somewhere with their Explorator fleets. Abaddon and co will be even less willing to believe that the tech came from some random no-name planet in the least relevant segmentum in the galaxy.
Not an entirely bad idea, but two things.

1. While the trade in religious relics was a common thing IRL I'm not sure how the admech feels about it, particularly the conservatives. Lets not have the mysterious vanishing STC be the reason the war breaks out (since I doubt we're telling people that there's a conclave, the explination for the tech last time was Tranth.)
2. Why do we need a paragon? I'm asking to be irritating, there's little reason that a paragon with us is better than a paragon with Callamus. In fact as the polity with demonstrably more resources and likely +s from buildings etc. there's no real reason for us to want a paragon unless they're someone like Cawl, whose particular speciality gets a real bonus from being on Avernus. For example a Grav tech expert absolutely very useful if we find the space vale. An industry expert will likely be far more useful with Callamus where any inventions they have, will have a much grander immidiate effect.
 
2. Why do we need a paragon? I'm asking to be irritating, there's little reason that a paragon with us is better than a paragon with Callamus.
I mean if we want to be completely honest, it's because this is a quest so having characters on our side provides tangible benefit as opposed to having them in the ether doing nothing beyond being sometimes mentioned in little factoids but not contributing.
 
How much do we think Callamus would actually be able to get out of it? I thought we had basically gotten everything out of it that we could, and that we had shared it all during the conference. As a consequence, the STC is of little further practical value to them, and they may get slightly annoyed at trading away a valuable Paragon for a beat-up box, even if it is one of the most holy boxes in the Galaxy.
 
How much do we think Callamus would actually be able to get out of it? I thought we had basically gotten everything out of it that we could, and that we had shared it all during the conference. As a consequence, the STC is of little further practical value to them, and they may get slightly annoyed at trading away a valuable Paragon for a beat-up box, even if it is one of the most holy boxes in the Galaxy.
It's the admech's holy grail, don't underestimate the power of that. It's like the true cross.
 
@Durin - fluff question/potential omake question

1. Are there 'embassies' for lack of a better word - or consultants/attaches from the other remnants within the Imperial Trust world's? I'm wondering if it's possible For an interaction between a member of the Avernite Helguard or the Thunder Warriors with say an Ultramarine attaché or a Callamus Myrmidon?

2. On a scale of 1-10, how amenable would the Eldar be to trading or helping set-up a 'better Psyker defense procedure'? Training/codex Psykana/tips and tricks/better detection or suppression tech? Maybe in conjunction or in trade for our new Black Ships design?
 
Thinking some more on what to do with this paragon space marine that doesn't want to bind themselves too strongly to a specific polity.
I already thought of giving them a position as an expeditionary force.
Or, alternatively we could send them to carry a message to Lion El Johnson.


From the discord


Even if they don't have a paragon of industry, I think buying a Paragon of some description with the STC constructor is something we should do. There are three reasons why I think we should do it.

1. It gets us a new paragon for basically nothing. The STC constructor is of no more value to us; we've gotten all the tech we can get out of it and it's not doing anything but being the target of pilgrimage. A new technological paragon, on the other hand, would be hugely beneficial for us. Not only materially, but politically, as it introduces a massively holy person to the Trust (high Learning=high holiness in Cult Mechanicus) who would be in favour of progressive policies.
2. The broken STC constructor might actually benefit Callamus. The Forge-Empire of Callamus is massive, covering eighty sectors as of 236.M46. Politics, prestige, pilgrimage, soft power, etc. actually matters in a polity of that size. Getting the closest thing to the Mechanicus' holy grail would be a notable boon to Callamus, as it would give them a good deal more political capital and influence over its many subordinate forge worlds. It should make up for the loss of a paragon at least somewhat, possibly even entirely if they're willing to make the trade.
3. It draws attention away from us. If Callamus ends up with the broken STC constructor, people's assumptions are going to be that the massive technological uplift came from them finding it in some obscure planet somewhere with their Explorator fleets. Abaddon and co will be even less willing to believe that the tech came from some random no-name planet in the least relevant segmentum in the galaxy.
All that makes sense. But wasn't there some discussion of fixing the thing using Vulcan, Ridcully, and Tranth that Vulcan seemed enthusiastic about when people asked about it after the tech trconference?
If we fix it it might be better to pin the finding on Vulcan somehow.
 
2. On a scale of 1-10, how amenable would the Eldar be to trading or helping set-up a 'better Psyker defense procedure'? Training/codex Psykana/tips and tricks/better detection or suppression tech? Maybe in conjunction or in trade for our new Black Ships design?
I dunno if they have much, but the main thing to point out is that the Eldar don't need our black ship design and have already transported it to the big three.
 
2. Why do we need a paragon? I'm asking to be irritating, there's little reason that a paragon with us is better than a paragon with Callamus. In fact as the polity with demonstrably more resources and likely +s from buildings etc. there's no real reason for us to want a paragon unless they're someone like Cawl, whose particular speciality gets a real bonus from being on Avernus. For example a Grav tech expert absolutely very useful if we find the space vale. An industry expert will likely be far more useful with Callamus where any inventions they have, will have a much grander immidiate effect.
It'd justify giving away the STC constructor to a polity that could actually make use of it, and at this point I think the Imperial Trust has proven itself worthy of getting a bit of additional investment to keep it going. Isha, the Conclave, and now Guilliman. Taking away a bit from Callamus to buff ourselves up is worth it even with a galactic viewpoint.

But the thing that any tech paragon would be good for is developing new tech by working with Tranth. By combining their specialty with Tranth's ability to do fundamentals and develop tech, we will greatly accelerate technological development in that field even compared to if they were in Callamus.

Industry in particular would be best though. Our biggest problem is that our industrial tech isn't as good as our military tech, which an industry paragon would be good for.
 
I would argue that an industry type paragon would be best used by the other major human powers. We just don't have the full supporting cast to even have Tranth researching on all cylinders, needing to divert the free actions to building up our infrastructure fairly frequently.
 
I would argue that an industry type paragon would be best used by the other major human powers. We just don't have the full supporting cast to even have Tranth researching on all cylinders, needing to divert the free actions to building up our infrastructure fairly frequently.
I mean I'm pretty sure an industry paragon would help with building that infrastructure...

But anyway, core idea is good. Getting a tech paragon of some kind is good and will help us who are galactically important, the STC constructor will not help us, the STC constructor is good for Callamus and will help them.
 
It'd justify giving away the STC constructor to a polity that could actually make use of it, and at this point I think the Imperial Trust has proven itself worthy of getting a bit of additional investment to keep it going. Isha, the Conclave, and now Guilliman. Taking away a bit from Callamus to buff ourselves up is worth it even with a galactic viewpoint.

But the thing that any tech paragon would be good for is developing new tech by working with Tranth. By combining their specialty with Tranth's ability to do fundamentals and develop tech, we will greatly accelerate technological development in that field even compared to if they were in Callamus.

Industry in particular would be best though. Our biggest problem is that our industrial tech isn't as good as our military tech, which an industry paragon would be good for.
And as I said any tech paragon we ask for should be someone that synchrises with what we' Good at.

Industry isn't one of those. A paragon like that is best off with calamus a more esoteric one with us. Just cause we can probably ask for things at the detriment of others doesn't mean we need too when there are equally beneficial alternatives. (AKA let's ask what paragons they do have first).

Also again please after the civil war. Scott needs legitimacy the STC is good for that.
 
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(AKA let's ask what paragons they do have first)
Sounds like a plan.

EDIT:
Also again please after the civil war. Scott needs legitimacy the STC is good for that.
This is the first time you've brought it up, and really it'll be fine. The STC won't determine who'll win the war or how much damage the conservatives will do, and having another Learning Paragon will provide its own prestige and legitimacy.
 
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This is the first time you've brought it up, and really it'll be fine. The STC won't determine who'll win the war or how much damage the conservatives will do, and having another Learning Paragon will provide its own prestige and legitimacy
Dude I think the legitimacy of the literal holy grail is worth a lot more in a religious schism than some skilled, but unknown tech priest appearing from no where since we have not made our connection with the big three public or even we'll known in the trust's upper eschelons.
 
Dude I think the legitimacy of the literal holy grail is worth a lot more in a religious schism than some skilled, but unknown tech priest appearing from no where since we have not made our connection with the big three public or even we'll known in the trust's upper eschelons.
I suppose you have a point there, but on the other hand, Scott is willing to consent to the trade, so I don't think the political situation and consequences are as bad as they seem to us.
 
I suppose you have a point there, but on the other hand, Scott is willing to consent to the trade, so I don't think the political situation and consequences are as bad as they seem to us.
Likely because it's only going to happen at the next conclave which is still a ways off I think. I just want to make sure we don't do so earlier.
 
Hum, I am with the guys that say that moving the holy STC would piss our tech priest when they discover. Since we have enemies like the alpha legions plus people that can use chaos to perform divination. I would say that is a bit soon for using the STC.

But more important the STC needs men of stone to work (from what I got from a discussion in this quest) and we could cause some religious issues to our allies if they don't handle that discover well.
 
I think what we should do at the next conclave is just raise the idea of working together to get the STC up and running. Its the kind of mega project that would need the big powers working together on. we have Rids and the constructor, as well as the needed MOS STC, but we lack the expertise and resources. Open it up to the other empries, and the project looks a lot more doable.
 
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I think what we should do at the next conclave is just raise the idea of working together to get the STC up and running. Its the kind of mega project that would need the big powers working together on. we have Rids and the constructor, as well as the needed MOI STC, but we lack the expertise and resources. Open it up to the other empries, and the project looks a lot more doable.
MoS stc and Callamus I think would not be on board. Or indeed secundus.
 
I'll be honest outside of combat paragons (which are not really that interesting to me by themselves) I think any paragon we have is vastly superior to a paragon someone else has, no matter how much abstract use the larger polities would get out of them for one simple reason. Those larger polities are barely part of the story, they are numbers in the background.

If we had a button marked 'you get an intereting character that opens some cool options but Callamus is eaten by Tyranyds' I would push it in a moment because it makes the story more interesting and the voting options more engaging. A polity that is little more than numbers on a spreadsheet is bearely worth anything besides that .
 
The Custodian-Genetor Part 3: The Deal
The Custodian-Genetor

Part 3: The Deal

Long ago, Belisarius Cawl set foot upon Macragge.

It was truly, truly long ago. Long before the fall of the Imperium. Long before the War of the Beast. Right after the Sundering, in fact. When the Emperor's Son laid upon the precipice of death, by the hands of his traitorous brother. He was no Archmagos Veneratus then, no Custodian-Genetor, still picking up the pieces of his teacher's craft. The devastation of the Heresy had been significant and the knowledge he sought fragmented. But he stepped upon Macragge, yes.

He had to see the state Roboute Guiliman was in. To know the mortality of even a Primarch. To see what he had to match, to surpass if he had to.

Some fifteen thousand years have passed since. Cawl had changed greatly. Long gone were the days where he was a Genetor rather than the Genetor. He had grown older and wiser. Bitter and somber. Taken on the mantle of Fabricator-General of Mars for a time before being cast out by politics. Creating wonder after wonder, tasting bitter failure at his works of the Adeptus Astartes, feeling great shame and betrayal when the Third Curse showed itself...

And all the while, Roboute Guiliman did not change. Still dying eternally. Still frozen in time.

At least, that is what the Tau had told him.

The project he embarked upon for the Tau Empire was the work of mere decades, in retrospect. For all the differences in biology between mankind and the Tau, for all the frailties the Tau faced in contrast to even mortal man-flesh, some things in nature were still the same. Lessons could be carried over. Methods could still be applied. The same augmentations - strength, metabolism, mental acuity - were still universally appreciated. And when one added the Kroot into the genetic mixture...

Suffice to say, Cawl now had new ideas to build upon the Omophagea. Nothing heretical, of course. Simply... innovative.

But when Belisarius Cawl returned to Macragge alongside his bodyguard, as eternal as they have always been, he saw fanfare - not for himself, though he made no attempt to hide his return. No, the celebrations were much greater, far too prolific. Far too many Space Marines involved.

And then he learned the truth. And what had transpired when he was away - and in transit.

----

The Imperial Trust, it was called, was a small sub-sector sized polity, one of the many Imperial Remnant that now dotted the galaxy. They were small, but their actions had impact that verged on the galactic. Not least because the Emperor Himself had chosen one of the holy men there, a mere Deacon, to become his Last Saint.

And this same man would give his life to bring back Roboute Guiliman, just days before he returned.

This, amongst other revelations, coloured Belisarius Cawl's day. Other Primarchs had returned, four of them! Vulkan, Jaghatai Khan, Corvus Corax and Leman Russ had all returned to lead the Quartus Imperium - and Corvus Corax, who Cawl always knew to have the spark of genetic genius in him, had gone far and beyond any expectations.

They called them the Trueborn. The next evolution of the Adeptus Astartes.

And in almost every regard, they outstripped the performance of his Primaris.

It would sting. It did sting. And for all that Cawl knew that this too was good, it frustrated him.

Fifteen thousand years of work, banging his head against the work of a genius beyond even him. And someone else did it first.

Not wanting to darken the festivities, Belisarius Cawl kept to himself.

Until a blind man came to see him.

----

Ulysses, his Shield-Captain, noticed scant seconds before he did, and was far faster to act. Whirling into motion, he and his Custodians quickly stood between Cawl and the Eldar.

Eleven Aspect Warriors looked back at him, their faces cowled beneath scowling war masks. Cawl could name each of their Aspect Temples - they made no attempt to hide those - but it was the man they stood around that truly caught his attention. He wore a blindfold around his head, moving with a calculated slowness - but there was a surety in his motion that resembled, no, exceeded what those with eyes had.

Cawl knew before he even spoke. This man was a Psyker.

"Belisarius Cawl," the old man chuckled. "It is good to finally meet you."

[Who are you,] Cawl asked.

"Only a man with an offer," replied the old seer. "You feel frustrated that a Primarch has done what you cannot."

[I am the Custodian-Genetor. This is my only task.]

"Indeed, indeed," the old man nodded. "But even a genius amongst geniuses cannot build a puzzle with half the pieces."

Cawl paused. [What do you mean?] He asked.

And so the Blind Seer told him. And the Custodian-Genetor saw.

----


Simple. So simple. It was so clear in retrospect, so blindingly obvious. And he had been going about it the wrong way the entire time.

Cawl should have known that the Adeptus Astartes were not wholly material. No, their power had to come from elsewhere. Their genes were of Primarchs, a twice-over dilution of the immensely psychic Emperor of Mankind! Of course there had to be more to their makeup than simple biomechanics. But he had been blind. Obsessed. Trying to make them fit the mould of the Custodians, who were something else entirely.

Why else would each Custodian be a personal masterwork, whereas the Adeptus Astartes were Legion.

"Do not beat yourself up, Archmagos," the old man chuckled, as ever in good cheer. "It took us a long time to see the truth ourselves, in the only place anyone could."

And so, the seed of an idea was placed in Cawl's mind.

[And what would such a place be,] asked the Custodian-Genetor.

The old man smiled.

"And that, Archmagos, is why I am here. My name is Munstrum Ridcully, the Blind Seer. Of the Imperial Trust."

Cawl's eyes widened. His mechanical heart seized for an instant. He was one of them.

"And I extend an invitation for you to visit my world, one unlike any other. One where you may find your answers - as well as many others."

Cawl said the words at once.

[I accept.]

Ridcully smiled.

"Then welcome to Avernus, Custodian-Genetor."
 
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Trying to make them fit the mould of the Custodians, who were something else entirely.
Codex Adeptus Custodes, page 56
I mean, maybe there's a purely material explanation for this (Thunder Warriors do have warp resistance despite being purely material), but there's also the possibility that Custodes are to some extent also supernatural.

EDIT: Page 14
A Space Marine is created by the introduction of gene-seed to the body, as well as the implantation of supporting organs. Between them, these modifications reshape those who receive them into living weapons. By comparison, whatever mysterious bio-alchemy is used to trigger the transformation into a Custodian occurs on an entirely deeper level, taking root in the cells, perhaps even the soul, of an aspirant.
 
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