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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Adventwolf said:
Except the Alpha Legion is split into loyalists, traitors of chaos, and traitors against chaos that want to kill humanity to kill off chaos. So they are not a galactic power.
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The Eldar would disagree with that statement they consider them a galactic power and a very plausible candidate for the patsy. They also state that their very nature makes it hard to prove or disprove, whether they're the patsy which only makes it more likely in my eyes, since where else is better for the Deceiver to hide?

Also the third group wants to omnicide the entire galaxy not just humans, depressingly they're right that probably would kill chaos.
 
Ok moving onto other things barring Tranth failing black ships I think we should go gravity array programming. It will allow us to make a feet faster, macro cannons to shoot farther, destroy fighters, or make enemy fire less effective. Hell if we get it working we can add it to the list of things do reverse engineer. We know if we do that will be a game changer for defenses.
 
Nurgle said:
Ok moving onto other things barring Tranth failing black ships I think we should go gravity array programming. It will allow us to make a feet faster, macro cannons to shoot farther, destroy fighters, or make enemy fire less effective. Hell if we get it working we can add it to the list of things do reverse engineer. We know if we do that will be a game changer for defenses.
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I know at least one thing it can do is give an enemy fleet -1 speed. which given hulks are sped 2 would double how long we have to shoot them.
 
Azgrin said:
And if Aelfric dies of old age before then (the lead up to the conference makes me feel that he is ancient) the Trust losses one of its better Generals.
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Aelfric has the same problem that Klovis has juvent quite working on them but they are not going to die in th next few decades. The way I want to do it programming, followed by Juve-Nat, followed by laser study, neutron study than ship neutron lasers.

But something to remember that making juvent Breyer also allows the conservative leaders to live longer, its a double edge sword.
 
Nurgle said:
The way I want to do it programming, followed by Juve-Nat, followed by laser study, neutron study than ship neutron lasers.
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I can live with this, I would like to see Warhound (but not reaver) titans added to that list but that's another debate.
Nurgle said:
But something to remember that making juvent Breyer also allows the conservative leaders to live longer, its a double edge sword.
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Those same conservative leaders that have lost lots of influence lately? Either way that's a poor way to think, they are our allies against the insane.
 
Azgrin said:
I can live with this, I would like to see Warhound (but not reaver) titans added to that list but that's another debate.

Those same conservative leaders that have lost lots of influence lately? Either way that's a poor way to think, they are our allies against the insane.
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I think we should wait for the titans till we finish the massive technology upgrade we have to implement. So 40 years worth of actions, maybe less when we finish the Admech forces.
 
Azgrin said:
We might want to delay that to look into Juvenat with him, there's some very old leaders in the Trust.
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Juve-Nat research is not guaranteed to make it work longer. The most likely outcome is that it becomes slighty cheaper to make. As for the Old -Leaders that is life we have to be ready to work with the people that replace them. It is called progress if we want to keep going we need people not of the Imperium Era in control.

Azgrin said:
Those same conservative leaders that have lost lots of influence lately? Either way that's a poor way to think, they are our allies against the insane.
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Losing power and radicalizing and doubling down. They are still capable of throwing the Trust into a dangerous civil war.
 
Adventwolf said:
Losing power and radicalizing and doubling down. They are still capable of throwing the Trust into a dangerous civil war.
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I see the extension of Aelfric's, Schwartz's and Klovis's life worth as a worthy trade off. On the other hand.
Adventwolf said:
Juve-Nat research is not guaranteed to make it work longer. The most likely outcome is that it becomes slighty cheaper to make.
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This could be the result.
 
Azgrin said:
I see the extension of Aelfric's, Schwartz's and Klovis's life worth as a worthy trade off. On the other hand.
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They are old they have done their duty and served with all the greatness that was expected. They have also raised successors so that they can be replaced. They have no want or need to stay around especially if to do so is spending time and resources on other projects that can improve the Trust. You have to let them die so that the future can progress. We are in this for the long haul. Unless the Juve-nat suddenly makes them live for thousands of years it is not worth it. We are still 4000 years away from the earliest possible return of the Emperor and even then it is unlikely he will get to us quickly. The major powers where he is likely to be reborn are all on the other side of the galaxy.
 
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Adventwolf said:
They are old they have done their duty and served with all the greatness that was expected. They have also raised successors so that they can be replaced. They have no want or need to stay around especially if to do so is spending time and resources on other projects that can improve the Trust. You have to let them die so that the future can progress.
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Little too idealistic to me, far too idealistic in fact. I hope to extend the lives of some of our best through research, id rather have them for as long as possible for the good and safety of the Imperial Trust.

Not sacrificed on the altar of "progress".
 
Azgrin said:
Little too idealistic to me, far too idealistic in fact. I hope to extend the lives of some of our best through research, id rather have them for as long as possible for the good and safety of the Imperial Trust.

Not sacrificed on the altar of "progress".
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It is not sacrificing it is reality and necessity, They have replacements lined-up they have trained these replacements for this job they will be fine in taking over. Trying to keep them around for longer than what we can is wasteful and clinging to something instead of learning to deal and work with the new situation.
 
Adventwolf said:
It is not sacrificing it is reality and necessity, They have replacements lined-up they have trained these replacements for this job they will be fine in taking over. Trying to keep them around for longer than what we can is wasteful and clinging to something instead of learning to deal and work with the new situation.
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It's a few years of a Tranth action to keep our best and brightest producing longer if the research pans out. This is one of the least wasteful actions we can take. Like, literally so.
 
Nurgle said:
Maybe but we got told to expect a war in the next 2-4 turns. Programming give us a benefit in 5years.
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In the Helheim system.

The thing needs to be programmed for each system it enters and the action explicitly programmes it for Helheim.

Durin said:
Gravitic Array: Programming- Now that he knows what the Gravatic Array can be used for it is time for Archmagos Tranth to figure out how to create programs that will allow him to use it. He tells you that this will be a complex task that will require much experimentation, and very deep surveys of the Helheim systems gravity.
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It may be quicker to programme it again once Tranth has got it down, but just bare it in mind.

Azgrin said:
It's a few years of a Tranth action to keep our best and brightest producing longer if the research pans out. This is one of the least wasteful actions we can take. Like, literally so.
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Juv nat takes 12 years (exotic technology) with -2% chance of success.

While I'm not against keeping people alive longer, I do think there are better options for research ATM, psycannons for when we reach the Penguins for example.
 
Nurgle said:
Ok moving onto other things barring Tranth failing black ships I think we should go gravity array programming. It will allow us to make a feet faster, macro cannons to shoot farther, destroy fighters, or make enemy fire less effective. Hell if we get it working we can add it to the list of things do reverse engineer. We know if we do that will be a game changer for defenses.
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I personally don't think that making one system more defensible is that good of an action, and I really don't think it will have that much of a finesse as to make all those things happen.

What I would like to do is to adapt Advanced Singularity Thrusters for escort and light cruisers, so we can seriously look into replacing escorts.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Juv nat takes 12 years (exotic technology) with -2% chance of success.

While I'm not against keeping people alive longer, I do think there are better options for research ATM, psycannons for when we reach the Penguins for example.
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Ouch, I thought it was one step lower.

On the psycannons I thought we already secured the aid of the Grey Knights to get our fish. Thus avoiding a spat with the Mechanicus over giving Xenos human tech.
 
Azgrin said:
Ouch, I thought it was one step lower.

On the psycannons I thought we already secured the aid of the Grey Knights to get our fish. Thus avoiding a spat with the Mechanicus over giving Xenos human tech.
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We have secured them to talk with the penguins about it, we've no idea if either side will go for the trade.

Psicannon is a good alternative and could help secure other things. It'd also probably help them defend Avernus come next incursion so I think Scott could swing a lease.

Regardless we do need to do stiff with them soonish research or no. Daemon ships are currently one of the things that bugger us the most.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
We have secured them to talk with the penguins about it, we've no idea if either side will go for the trade.

Psicannon is a good alternative and could help secure other things. It'd also probably help them defend Avernus come next incursion so I think Scott could swing a lease.

Regardless we do need to do stiff with them soonish research or no. Daemon ships are currently one of the things that bugger us the most.
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Oh I agree on the Psy cannon, I'm going to push to get it done before Amir Ka finishes it's war, I have a bad feeling the parties will (half correctly) blame us for it. I want it implemented now.

I want the fundamentals researched shortly thereafter so we can use it on the ground against incursions on Avernus through fixed positions and in campaign through a Psycannon mounted on an Ordinatus.
 
Adventwolf said:
They are old they have done their duty and served with all the greatness that was expected. They have also raised successors so that they can be replaced. They have no want or need to stay around especially if to do so is spending time and resources on other projects that can improve the Trust. You have to let them die so that the future can progress. We are in this for the long haul. Unless the Juve-nat suddenly makes them live for thousands of years it is not worth it. We are still 4000 years away from the earliest possible return of the Emperor and even then it is unlikely he will get to us quickly. The major powers where he is likely to be reborn are all on the other side of the galaxy.
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You know by the logic of just letting people die when we can find ways to increase lifespans we should have never used juvenats and just let our people die of natural age. While yes our guys have succesors people of Rotbarts or Tranths abilities are rare as hell and losing them would be heavy blow. Increasing people's lives just makes sense since the older someone is the more experience and thus the loss of those skills are a heavy blow.
 
Plus, if we do Juve-nat and it makes it last longer?

That's not just them. It's all their successors too. It's an investment in competent minions.
 
So, admittedly I just skimmed the arguments about the Deceiver, but the main clues I saw were essentially "sudden jumps in tech level, likely ending up in the 20+ range", "totally unexpected to be a Deceiver catspaw" , and "strongly controlled by secretive cabal like the Ethereal Caste of the Tau". Doesn't the Imperial Trust fit all three of those points? (assuming you include the impact of Freddie being controlled by a quest, it's not as strong a fit for the third point otherwise)
 
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