The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 592 80.3%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.7%

  • Total voters
    737
Then what are we going to use it on? If we have a plan for it, im down for keeping it. But just saving it for a rainy day is pretty suboptimal imo. Especially since we have the honorbound favor too.
Faster warp drives for one. That we could then share with the major human polities.

We have ideas.

Spending favor on every Waaargh that rolls along is basically broadcasting the fact of our alliance with the Eldar to every nearby polity thus giving them a reason to work together against us.
No its not, because redirecting consists of divinations and some nudges. Its subtle.

No Eldar fleets and personal sighted beyond the norm.

If using a favor to redirect a waaagh(other than, possibly, a huge one from out of our immediate area) came to a vote I would try to convince people to spend to favor on getting lore to manipulate Orkz and redirect Waaaghs ourselves. With everything we could spend them on I don't think we should spend a favor on doing something we could plausibly do ourselves or on gaining an advantage we could potentially gain through less expensive means.
This is The main reason I was pretty against using a favor for unlocking the Data Jewels, though the calculations on how many turns of work that would be were eventually convincing.
I am against. Any redirecting of Orks would need significant amounts of Ridcullys times. Better use time to divine matters of galactic import.

It would be massively wasteful otherwise.

If it costs us significantly more to ask Eldar to redirecting them then doing so ourselves (after learning from them), then they fail at economics utterly.

The Eldar have extensive practice with directing Orks. They can do far faster, cheaper, and better then us, even after tutoring on the subject.
 
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I be willing to do that. The only problem I see is if we can learn how in time.
Well frankly I am not sure it will be able to completely do away with the stirring war with the orks right now but it would allow us to be able to redirect orks by the time all the other apocalypses are happening which will be pretty damn useful and will buy us moments to breathe during that time period.
In total honesty, it depends on how fast it can be learnt and how soon the orks will be coming.
 
This is a very interesting idea.

Consider, any Wildlife that attaches themselves to a human psyker will enjoy a massively longer expected life span, need to do far less work, and will become much more powerful.

With Wildlifes intelligence, might we be getting volunteers soon perhaps?

Remember that Mittens is bonded to a hero class Beta. Most familiars won't be getting the same benefits.

That said, one thing I've been thinking about for Avernite wildlife are various species that use the familiar bond. Two that I've suggested are the Celebrant Sloth and the asp evolution in my most recent batch.
 
We need time and peace.
Time and peace would benefit us because we can spend actions on building higher. But in my opinion, even several turns of rebuilding after Waagh, something that is not certain to happen, is not worth breaking up a major for.

Nothing stops us from marrying Syr or going to the pole if the Waagh happens, anyway (unless we or Syr die, which would be pretty unlikely).
If it costs us significantly more to ask Eldar to redirecting them then doing so ourselves (after learning from them), then they fail at economics utterly.

The Eldar have extensive practice with directing Orks. They can do far faster, cheaper, and better then us, even after tutoring on the subject.
Eldars have far more stuff to do then we are, and there is probably a cap at how much faster or cheaper you can get doing that.
How much of a speed increase could we get? Because its pretty close to useless unless it puts us on par with chaos.
We don't know exactly, but no it's not? Any speed increase is massively useful.
 
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Then what are we going to use it on? If we have a plan for it, im down for keeping it. But just saving it for a rainy day is pretty suboptimal imo. Especially since we have the honorbound favor too.
I would have supported some sort of economic use, getting more development that would have been otherwise impossible for us, up until we got the calcs on how likely this tech trade is to make the major Chaos powers aware that we exist. The only way for us to stand off a proper attack from a giant out-of-region power is to spend a favor and get the Eldar to do it, otherwise we don't stand a chance. Wait until we either get more favours or until we can confirm that the Black Imperium remains unaware of our role in the tech trade before we discuss using the favor.
We need time and stability. The longer we wait the longer something will happen. Chaos is put off for a few decades but they will be back. They are just not going to leave us alone. The fact that we most likely have something coordinating cultist and demons on Avernus to attack anti psykers forces is a example. The Waagh is also going to form sooner than later.

Than we have to start worrying about the larger Ork domain getting thier act together and laying waste to the region. Which when it happens and it will eventually happen it will be devastating for everyone to the point that Durin said we may get asked for help form chaos forces in the region.

Also the necron will be coming back in a few decades. We have no idea what they will do but we should assume the worst. So in my mind they are coming back to kill everyone.

So we only have a few decades of possible peace before war comes. we can take the coming Waagh but that takes time away from building up industry, shipyards, hives and other things we need to do. We need stability and time. Not constantly trying to play catch up after multiple wars.

Rotbart can build multiple hives or shipyards but that takes time. He could also lead a expedition to the north and meet the penguins. There is a lot of actions that he can do if he has the time.

Syr can be brought back and married than have some kids so we can continue the line of Rotbart. Which most if not all the thread has wanted to do.

We need time and peace.
It will have a larger impact if used as a single mass, and the tech trade is enough to make me worry that we may need it to avoid getting overwhelmed by a major Chaos power that realizes we are here. If we need relative peace isn't it better to trade favours to prevent the most devastating wars possible rather than ones we are sure we could win?

That said, I do see the value of getting one group of enemies to fight another, but I don't seriously expect the Orkz to challenge Amir-ka. If we hadn't just spent so much effort weakening them, or if we were able to get their Waaagh to specifically hit one of the forge worlds that just got our tech I would think it worth considering, but I think both of those are too far away.
 
but I don't seriously expect the Orkz to challenge Amir-ka. If we hadn't just spent so much effort weakening them, or if we were able to get their Waaagh to specifically hit one of the forge worlds that just got our tech I would think it worth considering, but I think both of those are too far away.
If you compare their fleets and armies from descriptions, it's actually a closer fight than one might think. Most probably not enough to kill Amir-Ka, but enough to really damage it, especially if it turns into one big battle and not Orks getting slowly whittled down. Though that data might be old.

Atlas is about 300 lightyears away from Tugozak, which is pretty far, but if we can get it to target Amir-ka, it would be one of the best places to get that one big fight.
 
we could always invade the orks and expand , the chaos realms have backed off after what happened to the last guy (true death) , so we have some breathing room to act

pros for expanding
1)chances are even if we redirect the orks ,we would still have a large ork domain on our border
2)if we are to redirect the orks they would need to unite first and durin said the warboss was Tier 3 better not risk it
3)the ork are going to unite at one point or the other its better we attack first and keep the war over there than over hear
4)expanding will give us more systems and planets which will give us a better negotiating position when we merge with dragons nest

possible cons
some one in the sector might try there luck and raid or even attack us
counter : Rids can see them coming and predict there attack in great detail and we have fought a war on two fronts before and won also any attack wont be any were near as bad not to mention Rids would see any such attack coming years in advance
 
If you compare their fleets and armies from descriptions, it's actually a closer fight than one might think. Most probably not enough to kill Amir-Ka, but enough to really damage it, especially if it turns into one big battle and not Orks getting slowly whittled down. Though that data might be old.

Atlas is about 300 lightyears away from Tugozak, which is pretty far, but if we can get it to target Amir-ka, it would be one of the best places to get that one big fight.
Ok, I've seen the idea of redirecting a Waaagh at our chaotic neighbors repeatedly pop up, and it's a neat idea, but the idea always seems aimed at the same target, so I have to ask why Amir-Ka? I mean looking at our lists of neighboring and regional powers and Amir-Ka would not be my first or even second or third choice. Amir-Ka is neither the closest Chaos power to us or even the strongest, and it's history of being internally focused on it's own politics makes it much less likely to launch a serious crusade against us then the more traditional chaos polities also neighboring us(sure we might get the occasional raid by an internal faction like Atlas, but we can handle that easily enough).

Comparatively, The Princedom of Demagoye is a mere 110 lightyears from us, and is a fully Slaneeshi Domain. Meaning that once Vect's deal goes through, it's going to get uplifted to a tech level higher then us sooner rather then later, so I'd ranking taking it out before that happens a higher priority then any of the others.

Then there's the Princedom of Assour, which at 400 light years is just as far away as Amir-Ka, but is even bigger and is the largest and most powerful neighboring Chaos power to us. And as they are a traditional chaos power under a single Chaos Lord, I'd easily rank them as a much larger threat then Amir-Ka.

Pass them, is the More'lumix's Realm, which at 500 light years is the furthest away but is a fully Tzeenchian Realm, which again makes them more likely to attack us do to Tzeentch's paranoid fear of us accidently screwing with something the Old Ones left and blowing up the galaxy.

I'd honestly rate Amir-Ka as being more around the level of the Nexx when it comes to their threat level towards us simply because of how distracted their internal politics leaves them.
 
we could redirect the orks into a near by threat and invade with most of them away but that would need the orks to unite which I would rather they not do
 
Because Amir-ka is the same distance away from Tugozak's domain as we are.
Your point? Orks aren't exactly limited in how far they can travel. It's humanity that needed the astronomican for fast ftl travel, orks would be uneffected by its loss. If there's a good fight to be had, orks will reach it no matter how far away it is, you'd need to merely point them in the right direction.
 
Your point? Orks aren't exactly limited in how far they can travel. It's humanity that needed the astronomican for fast ftl travel, orks would be uneffected by its loss. If there's a good fight to be had, orks will reach it no matter how far away it is, you'd need to merely point them in the right direction.
Orks are more likely to travel to the closer fight than they are to the farther.
 
We need time and stability. The longer we wait the longer something will happen. Chaos is put off for a few decades but they will be back. They are just not going to leave us alone. The fact that we most likely have something coordinating cultist and demons on Avernus to attack anti psykers forces is a example. The Waagh is also going to form sooner than later.

Than we have to start worrying about the larger Ork domain getting thier act together and laying waste to the region. Which when it happens and it will eventually happen it will be devastating for everyone to the point that Durin said we may get asked for help form chaos forces in the region.

Also the necron will be coming back in a few decades. We have no idea what they will do but we should assume the worst. So in my mind they are coming back to kill everyone.

So we only have a few decades of possible peace before war comes. we can take the coming Waagh but that takes time away from building up industry, shipyards, hives and other things we need to do. We need stability and time. Not constantly trying to play catch up after multiple wars.

Rotbart can build multiple hives or shipyards but that takes time. He could also lead a expedition to the north and meet the penguins. There is a lot of actions that he can do if he has the time.

Syr can be brought back and married than have some kids so we can continue the line of Rotbart. Which most if not all the thread has wanted to do.

We need time and peace.

A Waagh coming out of Tugozak's former domain is not the level of threat I believe would cause us enough damage that it would be overly problematic. All of the colonies now have developed past the point of being vulnerable, we got off rather light in Turoq's invasion attempt, and we're no longer being actively raided. We can deal with the Waagh without breaking up a major favor that we currently lack the means to replace.

A major favor with the Eldar is a strategic resource. We could use it to have them outright wipe out an enemy polity if need be. I was ok with breaking up our last one because the sum total of what we were able to get was more than the value of the major favor, but we lack that here. Linnis as healed as they can make him, the data jewels are decoded, and the super dangerous enemy is perma-dead. There's nothing I see as worth that much in respect to minor favors.
 
I'd much rather just engage the next Waaargh with our regular forces, which are perfectly capable of dealing with it, than waste favor by redirecting it. The Orks can actually succeed in an invasion and create more ork realms which means more Waaarghs forming in our local area that we have to deal with.
We should just kill the green bastards, messing around trying to play puppet master will screw us over.
 
Ok, I've seen the idea of redirecting a Waaagh at our chaotic neighbors repeatedly pop up, and it's a neat idea, but the idea always seems aimed at the same target, so I have to ask why Amir-Ka? I mean looking at our lists of neighboring and regional powers and Amir-Ka would not be my first or even second or third choice. Amir-Ka is neither the closest Chaos power to us or even the strongest, and it's history of being internally focused on it's own politics makes it much less likely to launch a serious crusade against us then the more traditional chaos polities also neighboring us(sure we might get the occasional raid by an internal faction like Atlas, but we can handle that easily enough).

Comparatively, The Princedom of Demagoye is a mere 110 lightyears from us, and is a fully Slaneeshi Domain. Meaning that once Vect's deal goes through, it's going to get uplifted to a tech level higher then us sooner rather then later, so I'd ranking taking it out before that happens a higher priority then any of the others.

Then there's the Princedom of Assour, which at 400 light years is just as far away as Amir-Ka, but is even bigger and is the largest and most powerful neighboring Chaos power to us. And as they are a traditional chaos power under a single Chaos Lord, I'd easily rank them as a much larger threat then Amir-Ka.

Pass them, is the More'lumix's Realm, which at 500 light years is the furthest away but is a fully Tzeenchian Realm, which again makes them more likely to attack us do to Tzeentch's paranoid fear of us accidently screwing with something the Old Ones left and blowing up the galaxy.

I'd honestly rate Amir-Ka as being more around the level of the Nexx when it comes to their threat level towards us simply because of how distracted their internal politics leaves them.
Demagoye would probably be turned into multch at their current level or even the next few levels of strength.

Assour meanwhile would probably chew out quick and More'lumix too far for me to be confident (though TBF Assour is probably my personal favourite choice powerful Undevided's don't come along often and hobbling them is good.)

I mean frankly so long as the Orks go somwhere that isn't us I'm fine, I'm having flash backs to Da Krumpas considering what we've been doing to them.

That being said we need to remember, Bloodbusta will be coming along as the big threat in the next few centuries minimum. We're not strong enough to take on a level 3 waaargh.
 
A Waagh coming out of Tugozak's former domain is not the level of threat I believe would cause us enough damage that it would be overly problematic. All of the colonies now have developed past the point of being vulnerable, we got off rather light in Turoq's invasion attempt, and we're no longer being actively raided. We can deal with the Waagh without breaking up a major favor that we currently lack the means to replace.

A major favor with the Eldar is a strategic resource. We could use it to have them outright wipe out an enemy polity if need be. I was ok with breaking up our last one because the sum total of what we were able to get was more than the value of the major favor, but we lack that here. Linnis as healed as they can make him, the data jewels are decoded, and the super dangerous enemy is perma-dead. There's nothing I see as worth that much in respect to minor favors.
We took damage with Rotbart victory over Asgard enough that we will be spending the next 3 turns repairing them. We also took damage that Midgard and Vanaheim will be preparing. The Waagh will most likely attack sooner than later.

Which is moot because we have one minor favor and would not have to break up the major favor.

Edit nope we do not have any minor favors.
 
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We took damage with Rotbart victory over Asgard enough that we will be spending the next 3 turns repairing them. We also took damage that Midgard and Vanaheim will be preparing. The Waagh will most likely attack sooner than later.

Which is moot because we have one minor favor and would not have to break up the major favor.
We do not have any minor favors currently.

Ridcully got us a Honorboud and two Majors. One Major we broke to get Lin healed some, Data Jewels decoded, and damage from Turoq massively reduced and him likely permakilled (which happened).

One H and one M left.

We can get a minor with 3-4 Ridcullys major divinations if I remember correctly, which means that we can earn one in two turns (We have two greater divinations per turn).

This is why some of us wanted to wait healing Lin a bit, it wouldn't have hurt him and we wouldn't have this problem.

The best solution here that I can see is Ridcully delaying the Orks until he earns a minor, spend it on redirect, then earn another for emergencies (or for Eldar Seers to take over some of his duties, giving him more Divinations), then resume his work for us.

At least this should do some good to the galaxy.
 
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