The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
Shit whiskers, did we somehow forget that we were supposed to talk to the high council before any diplomacy with the Eldar. How did we forget that?

Quick, let's play this off as Ridcully deciding to do something and a bunch of his associates helping him out.
 
Shit whiskers, did we somehow forget that we were supposed to talk to the high council before any diplomacy with the Eldar. How did we forget that?

Quick, let's play this off as Ridcully deciding to do something and a bunch of his associates helping him out.

technically this is an extension of the treaty the trust already agreed to where we sold our seers services as part of a larger deal. Then the empire offered us an alternative payment method, and we went for it. Though it is a bit of a grey area though.
 
technically this is an extension of the treaty the trust already agreed to where we sold our seers services as part of a larger deal. Then the empire offered us an alternative payment method, and we went for it. Though it is a bit of a grey area though.
It's not our fault. Clearly because none of our advisors remembered to bring it up there must have been extraordinary forces at play here clouding our minds.
Because the only Eldar who could have done it without Lin noticing are Phoenix Lords or other heavily occupied assets it is clearly the fault of the planetmind.

This becomes a really convenient excuse for things we don't want to be responsible for.
 
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So, just for chuckles, I decided to try to figure out the single highest plausible bonus to resistance Ridcully can get.

Against a soul-affecting Warp effect disease crafted by Nurgle, he has +550 to rolls resist it, it's effects are halved before said rolls, and if he rolls better than it does he automatically negates it.

That's just the specific bonuses too, not the ones the would come from his piety (52 now) or his psychic control (60 from helm bonus).
 
You know would be a strange irony if there a companion, watcher or...even porn oriented AI/robot. Because in one side a man of stone advanced enough and safe enough to be use in this finality could be a lesser impact than let say a war man of stone. In the other side well you probably can hear HERESY so loud in the trust warp than even the daemons would decide to hide for a day or 10.
Edit: grammar.
 
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hey @inverted_helix dso you still have whatever you used to make that nova cannon armor mitigation spreadsheet? I'm trying to work out how much of a knockout punch a volley of macro cannon shells at +10 piercing really is. right now it's looking like one of our light cruisers will be able to knock out anything short of a heavy cruiser, but I'm having to more or less eyball the armor.
Well the alpha strike potential is kind of extreme. Since you wanted a light cruiser. A Buccaneer light cruiser with normal weapons vs a tier 2 Waaagh Kill Kroozer (Cruiser) does 27% of its health damage at short or medium range. With vortex shells this goes to 110%.

Against a Tier 2 Waaagh Battlekroozer (heavy cruiser) it does 5.8% of their health damage at short or medium range with normal weapons, and 33.8% with vortex shells.

Mind you they only get one shot of vortex shells a battle I think. And the hypothetical battle between a battlekroozer and a buccaneer is almost certain to result in the buccaneer being dead quite quickly.

(No time for fancy spreadsheet images)
 
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Well the alpha strike potential is kind of extreme. Since you wanted a light cruiser. A Buccaneer light cruiser with normal weapons vs a tier 2 Waaagh Kill Kroozer (Cruiser) does 27% of its health damage at short or medium range. With vortex shells this goes to 110%.

Against a Tier 2 Waaagh Battlekroozer (heavy cruiser) it does 5.8% of their health damage at short or medium range with normal weapons, and 33.8% with vortex shells.

Mind you they only get one shot of vortex shells a battle I think. And the hypothetical battle between a battlekroozer and a buccaneer is almost certain to result in the buccaneer being dead quite quickly.

(No time for fancy spreadsheet images)

that's about what I was getting by eyeballing it. Usually, kill anything in the ships weight class, and do critical damage to anything a category or two above. though a lot of the alpha strike is going to get absorbed by the escort screen unless we do something clever.
 
I notice the favor is to us, personally, as in Avernus, not the Imperial Trust.
Let's, uhm, not risk a political shitstorm by asserting that.

I mean, we are planning on using them for the benefit of the Trust as a whole when it comes down to it, and I'm guessing that Vanaheim and the conservative factions that might find most of our ideas about it objectionable don't have other plans.

Personally, in my ideal world right now we'd split one Major into minors and spend one minor on treatment for Lin (assuming he wants it, of course) and one on military assistance against the Turoq attack, which would ensure that it would not be capable of achieving its goals and would still give us a decent chance to gib him with Areathea.

The rest we hold for the time being. As we can't trade back up in favor scales, that honorbound favor is irreplaceable for the foreseeable future, and having a full major favor means we won't need to bust the honorbound favor out to deal with something big but not huge.
 
I notice the favor is to us, personally, as in Avernus, not the Imperial Trust.
This has been discussed, the conclusion was to not point it out and to bring the high council in on deciding their use to defray political irritation about us getting into a grey area and potentially doing somthing unconstitutional with our Eldar diplomacy.

In terms of immediate use it would be nice to do something about the Turoq problem.

that's about what I was getting by eyeballing it. Usually, kill anything in the ships weight class, and do critical damage to anything a category or two above. though a lot of the alpha strike is going to get absorbed by the escort screen unless we do something clever.

Maybe fleet tactics that rely on stealth ships and focusing fire on line of battle warships during the initial phases just got much more viable?
 
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So thinking about what to do with our favors.
I think Durin mentioned that the Eldar could redirect a waagh to strike Turoq's forces for a minor favor, though It was unclear whether he was answering with regards to either a roving waagh, or our local Ork domain.
It would be especially useful if he was talking about the local Ork domain.
This would allow us the cheapest option for going on the offensive, namely that the enemy forces would be pinned in place so our fleet could get over there.
With the potential disadvantage of the Dark Mechanicus not caring and attacking anyway, let's not do this.

Other options include using a minor favor to somehow cripple the motion of their fleets. Or maybe a minor favor would be enough to get a surprise Eldar warhost out of nowhere to wipe out Turoq while he's attacking, specifically with the goal of getting Areatha and some support to kill Turoq, then scaring off the rest of his fleet, that way we can focus nearly all our forces on defending the Core Worlds from the Dark Mechanicus, and they could stop by to help, or to hunt down retreating Dark Mechanicus and prevent them from taking info back.

I sort of don't want to spend it to just wipe them out, we already asked Areatha for help so we might as well get to give her that fight, but there was mention of a major favor being enough to wipe out all of the neighboring ork and Chaos polities.
I think they wouldn't want to fight the Necrons without something much bigger, as their cold war situation implies some sort of agreement or understanding between them.

And I don't actually want to wipe out all those local groups just yet, we can't hold that ground and it would make war with the local Necrons an inevitability. Splitting up a major favor into multiple incidents of assistance VS local powers serves multiple purposes, allowing us time to expand and fortify areas that have been wiped, and to give the Necrons the impression that the local humans have the Eldar willing to consistently offer aid and work alongside the humans, making them less inclined to casually invade the instant the war in the Void ends, I want to make them hesitate.

There are some other interests to pursue, we already have the costs for local area webway access, or for hiding and reconstructing the STC, both of which are honourbound and would let us grow much more.
But we are also short on merchant ships and population, we could have them direct uncorrupted refugees our way, to increase our store of both. This could be effective but would have varying levels of use depending on how much we want to spend on it.
Finally something I really want to do that would benefit us in the long term, I want to get ahold of Eldar lore and maybe training on redirecting Orkz, so it's no longer a fifty fifty split as to whether they attack us or the intended target.

@Durin
1. When you explained that it would cost a minor favor to redirect Orkz into Turoq were you talking about a wandering waagh or the locals?
2. If you weren't talking about the locals, how much would the Eldar convincing the local domain to unite and bypass us and Dragon's Nest to attack an enemy, like Turoq or the Necrons, cost?
3. Would getting a support force able to take out Turoq(maybe with Areatha riding along), then assist us in battle/hunt down retreating ships/help our counter attack campaign, presumably under contract for five?ten? Years or the end of the current war, whichever comes last(because I'm expecting an Ork interrupt), be a minor favor?
4. Could we get any elaboration on the Necron cold war situation? IE. how it affects favor use against them?
5. Would getting refugees help much with the merchant ship shortage, and productivity/population per planet increases? Is it really useful? redundant? Some sort of context would be welcome.
6. How much would Eldar derived improvement to our methods of dealing with Ork manipulation help and what would it cost?
 
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does that mean that even if it is porn it would still be a form of VR simulation that would have enough value that it would be worth reverse engineering? man, that would be an awkward bit of tinkering.
Imagine it being some hyper advanced VR MMO server. One that is a living world, so to speak with NPCs that act sentient. For a porn world. It has been running for over 20k years. Man, that would be an interesting sociology project to study.
 
Kinda of it's more efficient to use it to clear the local area since minor is either kill the leader or help turn a battle completely in our favor.
Even if it's not maximally efficient, I would support using a major favor to eliminate turoq's domain, and forgeworlds atlas and chrone. Maybe tugozak too.

It draws less attention than killing everyone indiscriminately, prevents trust tech being taken from turoq, and the attention it does draw incentivizes fighting each other for new real estate and disincentivizes attacking the trust.

Though we should wait until our industrial and population growth plateaus so we can take advantage of the free space.

Edit: atlas might be part of amir-ka, so it's arguable we should skip it to not draw amir-la out of it's isolationism, or strike harder so atlas doesn't disseminate turoq's bribe. But, darkmech, so they don't share anything that they don't have to.
 
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Even if it's not maximally efficient, I would support using a major favor to eliminate turoq's domain, and forgeworlds atlas and chrone. Maybe tugozak too.

It draws less attention than killing everyone indiscriminately, prevents trust tech being taken from turoq, and the attention it does draw incentivizes fighting each other for new real estate and disincentivizes attacking the trust.

Though we should wait until our industrial and population growth plateaus so we can take advantage of the free space.
That would actually be about as efficient as clearing the local area. If the Dark Admech worlds are taken down then along with turoq's realm it still gives us breathing room. The issue is that the Ork domain is almost unified and sending a Waaagh against us in a few turns. If we can manage to get another minor favor we could use it to direct that Waaagh to the other local chaos domain. At the trade conference we should try for that probably going to need to send more forces to the Eldar for it.
 
That would actually be about as efficient as clearing the local area. If the Dark Admech worlds are taken down then along with turoq's realm it still gives us breathing room. The issue is that the Ork domain is almost unified and sending a Waaagh against us in a few turns. If we can manage to get another minor favor we could use it to direct that Waaagh to the other local chaos domain. At the trade conference we should try for that probably going to need to send more forces to the Eldar for it.
With ridcully trading divinations and hopefully our elites having value as mercenaries, i'm hopeful we have a renewable source of minor favors.
 
With ridcully trading divinations and hopefully our elites having value as mercenaries, i'm hopeful we have a renewable source of minor favors.
Yeah that's what I'm hoping for to. But we need Ridcully's divinations as well hopefully just our elites will be enough to get the one minor in time. After that we can focus better we need to consolidate all our holdings and expand into the Valinor sub-sector.
 
With ridcully trading divinations and hopefully our elites having value as mercenaries, i'm hopeful we have a renewable source of minor favors.
that is called business.

Avernus may become galaxy-famous for the trading of secrets and soldiers in the future.

But yes, Ridcully has beaten odds more than anyone can realize.

1. being a psyker when most end up dead very fast. (that problem has gotten a tiny bit better by now it feels like).
2. allowed to be sanctioned despite being so powerful (unless it is because latter on, humanity is more psychic than in the past and delta like when he was sanctioned first is the norm by 44 and 45k.).
3. being a psyker during the fall of the Astronomicon.
4. surviving Avernus.
5. seeing multiple gods and deities.
6. escaping said dieties.
 
Where is this information coming from? I can't seem to find it anywhere I look. I probably am just missing it but if you have a link I would appreciate it.

@Durin
1.Wouldn't that mean that Ridcully should be at step three then?
1a. Since if starting is 1 and doing the Deceiver was a step and then Nurgle's Throne was another step?
3. Also these two questions didn't get an answer.
3a. How are the 15 space marines from the original 30 that weren't the ancients doing?
3b. If they still live are they respected only slightly less than the 15 ancients.
3c. I'm asking about the guys from when we first got the Space Marines it was 30 in total 15 were originals from the very beginning and the rest were surviving recruits that had been with them for a little while.
1. yes it should be, adjusting trait
3a. 12 of them still live
3b. most of them are captains or praetors
??? I thought the existence of the Lost and Forgotten was known as part of record since there's nothing explaining why you suddenly jump from 1-3 and 10-12 in the Imperial records. Its just anyone investigating tends to be visited by the inquisition.


Eggsailent.

@Durin
1. Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 4349 just sending your way.
2. As an estimate how big of a boost did the minor gods get via their theft?
3. What level of favour for assisting the recovery of the Grey Knights (either through genetics or if Corvus has that covered recovery of techniques, texts and other things). Eventual hope is that we can hand the knights over to the Eldar to assist them.
4. Assuming we check and it won't end badly for us, what level of favour to recover the process to create custodes?


Breast plate makes things tougher, presumably passively adds a bunch to our armour value.


Its from the book Clonelord where Bile passes through the region of space with the Ymiga monolith and remarks on the second passing through the area.

The monolith in other works is revealed as a necron device that can somehow duplicate ships and other things.
2. significant for them but still minor
3. unknown
4. impossible
@Durin what would it cost to get the Elder to do some joint research projects with UU regarding some of the weird shit on Avernus?
minor favour
@Durin

1. What would be the effects of a civilisation setting up a full organised religion dedicated to Isha, with temples, holy days, clergy, sacrifices, etc.?
2. What level of favour would it cost to get the eldar to improve the defences of the North and South Poles of Avernus to defend against future daemonic incursion?
1. not really any different
2. honorbound
@Durin

1. Is it possible to understand the nature of conceptual concept other than chaos using ridacully and lin? For example order or balance? Is such attempt dangerous?

2. Is it possible to divine lost primaries now that our oracle's power boosted even further?

3. Is it possible for Lin to comprehend the nature of Helhiem or perpetual power?

4. Can ridacully use greater divination to see the nature of Emperor's rebirth like Eldar seers able to see/predict/engineer ynnead birth before it actually happened?

5. If he sees the Emperor's birth and his death will it help him to divine his rebirth more clearly?

6. If we ask Eldar seers help to do aka joint divination so will it increase chance of success?( Like in case Isha) How much it will cost us?
1. yes, and the danger is unknown
2. Primarches? you can try but dont know enough to know how successful you will be
3. no
4. yes but only a lot closer to the event
5. yes
6. you could, major favour
@Durin:
1) Can we network the Eldar with the Siren and other Peoples to proselytise the Eldar Pantheon?
2) How would the High Council take Avernite Peoples worshipping Isha?
1. yes
2. they would not care
1. Can we sell Ridcully's future divination for minor favors like we did with the conference (basicly we get 3 minor favors now and we promise to perform 9-12 divinations within 50 years)?

@Durin
1. Why not? Do we need to perform divinations before receiving the favors or is there some other issues?
2. Could we get 1 minor favor now this way?
3. Unrelated thing I keep forgetting to ask - I remember you said that Jane wears relic warded armor, what kind of armor is it? Ignatius?
1. Eldar polotics
2. no
3. Elite
@Durin
1. So one of Ridicully's new traits indicated the Eldar were adding him to their Pantheon. Does this worship translate into a further push along the path to apotheosis?
1. not unless it reaches the point where he can become a religious god
@Durin
  1. Can we expect any issues from the local necrons if we openly show our relationship with the Eldar given they are ancient enemies?
1. maybe
@Durin, will Lin's life be extended more the earlier we get the eldar to give him treatment?
as long as you get it in the next 20 years it is fine
So thinking about what to do with our favors.
I think Durin mentioned that the Eldar could redirect a waagh to strike Turoq's forces for a minor favor, though It was unclear whether he was answering with regards to either a roving waagh, or our local Ork domain.
It would be especially useful if he was talking about the local Ork domain.
This would allow us the cheapest option for going on the offensive, namely that the enemy forces would be pinned in place so our fleet could get over there.
With the potential disadvantage of the Dark Mechanicus not caring and attacking anyway, let's not do this.

Other options include using a minor favor to somehow cripple the motion of their fleets. Or maybe a minor favor would be enough to get a surprise Eldar warhost out of nowhere to wipe out Turoq while he's attacking, specifically with the goal of getting Areatha and some support to kill Turoq, then scaring off the rest of his fleet, that way we can focus nearly all our forces on defending the Core Worlds from the Dark Mechanicus, and they could stop by to help, or to hunt down retreating Dark Mechanicus and prevent them from taking info back.

I sort of don't want to spend it to just wipe them out, we already asked Areatha for help so we might as well get to give her that fight, but there was mention of a major favor being enough to wipe out all of the neighboring ork and Chaos polities.
I think they wouldn't want to fight the Necrons without something much bigger, as their cold war situation implies some sort of agreement or understanding between them.

And I don't actually want to wipe out all those local groups just yet, we can't hold that ground and it would make war with the local Necrons an inevitability. Splitting up a major favor into multiple incidents of assistance VS local powers serves multiple purposes, allowing us time to expand and fortify areas that have been wiped, and to give the Necrons the impression that the local humans have the Eldar willing to consistently offer aid and work alongside the humans, making them less inclined to casually invade the instant the war in the Void ends, I want to make them hesitate.

There are some other interests to pursue, we already have the costs for local area webway access, or for hiding and reconstructing the STC, both of which are honourbound and would let us grow much more.
But we are also short on merchant ships and population, we could have them direct uncorrupted refugees our way, to increase our store of both. This could be effective but would have varying levels of use depending on how much we want to spend on it.
Finally something I really want to do that would benefit us in the long term, I want to get ahold of Eldar lore and maybe training on redirecting Orkz, so it's no longer a fifty fifty split as to whether they attack us or the intended target.

@Durin
1. When you explained that it would cost a minor favor to redirect Orkz into Turoq were you talking about a wandering waagh or the locals?
2. If you weren't talking about the locals, how much would the Eldar convincing the local domain to unite and bypass us and Dragon's Nest to attack an enemy, like Turoq or the Necrons, cost?
3. Would getting a support force able to take out Turoq(maybe with Areatha riding along), then assist us in battle/hunt down retreating ships/help our counter attack campaign, presumably under contract for five?ten? Years or the end of the current war, whichever comes last(because I'm expecting an Ork interrupt), be a minor favor?
4. Could we get any elaboration on the Necron cold war situation? IE. how it affects favor use against them?
5. Would getting refugees help much with the merchant ship shortage, and productivity/population per planet increases? Is it really useful? redundant? Some sort of context would be welcome.
6. How much would Eldar derived improvement to our methods of dealing with Ork manipulation help and what would it cost?
1. wandering Waagh
2. minor
3. yes
4. they will not conduct any preemptive attacks on necrons or destroy their tombworlds
5. not very useful, between the time and resources needed to vet them and get them up to your standards you would not be worth that much, and the Eldar would not be able to direct many your way unless they opened the webway to masses of random refugees which is out f the question
6. a good bit and minor favour
@Durin how much favour would it cost to wipe out all of the Tugozak Orks?
major
 
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