The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

[Andres]

If our people start worshipping isha, then jane hunts them like they were cultists.

Lets keep ridcully's blessing secret.

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I disagree. Yes, we will get Isha cultists going on the execution pyres, but a good amount of them might've instead become Nurgle cultists, and that's worse. Making it public will also allow Isha worship to spread amongst the Avernite xenos, which may give Isha just slightly enough of a power boost to succeed in being rescued when the eldar try another rescue attempt. In terms of how Isha worship by xenos would benefit us, those civilisations where Isha worship becomes popular would like us quite a bit, because we have the one person who was directly blessed by her.

That's only Xenos, as in aliens. Xenos gods, I fell, fall under religious traditions, which is allowed as long as it doesn't conflict with the New Imperial Truth.

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Xeno gods are warp xenos.

 

[DragonParadox]

I disagree. Yes, we will get Isha cultists going on the execution pyres, but a good amount of them might've instead become Nurgle cultists, and that's worse. Making it public will also allow Isha worship to spread amongst the Avernite xenos, which may give Isha just slightly enough of a power boost to succeed in being rescued when the eldar try another rescue attempt. In terms of how Isha worship by xenos would benefit us, those civilisations where Isha worship becomes popular would like us quite a bit, because we have the one person who was directly blessed by her.

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That's really cold... but looking at Rotbart's traits it's also something he might do.

Xeno gods are warp xenos.

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I agree, otherwise to maintain logical consistency one would have to argue that the Emperor is not human and while a case can be made for that it's not exactly compatible with our theology to say the least.

 

[HanEmpire]

If we're worshipping Isha, we need the Eldar to train up our priests so that the worship doesn't create a Fake Isha Daemon. Maybe have the priests work with Lin to optimize it for human worship too.

 

[dragon]

I disagree. Yes, we will get Isha cultists going on the execution pyres, but a good amount of them might've instead become Nurgle cultists, and that's worse. Making it public will also allow Isha worship to spread amongst the Avernite xenos, which may give Isha just slightly enough of a power boost to succeed in being rescued when that eventually happens. In terms of how Isha worship by xenos would benefit us, those civilisations where Isha worship becomes popular would like us quite a bit, because we have the one person who was directly blessed by her.


Xeno gods are warp xenos.

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I find it questionable to allow isha worship, because it allows potential chaos recruits to die on the execution pyres untainted.

If local xenos take up isha worship, then this is likely to become a point of tension rather than fellowship.

You'd have to recognize it as a 'local religious tradition that acknowledges the imperial truth'. Which it's not currently, and if it were then local religious practices which acknowledge the imperial truth but worship xenos are still unconstitutional.

The constitution would have to be amended to allow this.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I disagree. Yes, we will get Isha cultists going on the execution pyres, but a good amount of them might've instead become Nurgle cultists, and that's worse. Making it public will also allow Isha worship to spread amongst the Avernite xenos, which may give Isha just slightly enough of a power boost to succeed in being rescued when that eventually happens. In terms of how Isha worship by xenos would benefit us, those civilisations where Isha worship becomes popular would like us quite a bit, because we have the one person who was directly blessed by her.


Xeno gods are warp xenos.

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Depending on the legality of the matter we could just exile any cultists to the Eldar.

@Durin
1. Assuming Rids is home now how have the Sirens changed their view of him if at all with his blessing?
2. Are the Crone Blades things in Embers?
3. At developed how far as Rids advanced down the path of ascension?
4. Even with his blessing Rids ain't exactly the best healer, but does it open up some unique chances to heal shards and the like?
5. What level of favour would be needed for the Eldar to give us all their stored up STCs rather than needing to purchase them (I'd like to anyway, but as a marking).
6. What is Lin's view on Isha?
7. How far beyond expectations did Rids manage to get?
8. If we used a favour to decode the data jewels, what level would get them to do all of them at once rather than one at a time or would they just do em all at once?

 

[Shard]

Recognizing that someone was blessed by a god so that you get worshippers of that god to be killed reeks of evilness.

 

[AlsoSprachOdin]

I imagine its a legal issue based on wording.
You can take it to mean that any xenos religion is out for humans, or you can take it to mean you cannot worship aliens, but their real Gods are fine.
Its rather tenuous though.

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Surely Isha is actually a Xeno herself?
I suppose we could ask our experts for advice.
@Durin
1. What does Lin think about allowing humans worshipping Isha?
2. How do we think the High Council would react if the brought the idea up?
2a. Particularly the Inquisition?
3. Would there be actual, observable advantages to such worship?

I find it questionable to allow isha worship, because it allows potential chaos recruits to die on the execution pyres untainted.

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Isn't that good?

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I agree, otherwise to maintain logical consistency one would have to argue that the Emperor is not human and while a case can be made for that it's not exactly compatible with our theology to say the least.

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I'd absolutely make that argument...but yeah internal trust stability good.

If local xenos take up isha worship, then this is likely to become a point of tension rather than fellowship.

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M'dude they already worship their own gods and acknowledge the truth with yeah that's a thing.

I don't think adding Isha would change that over much.

 

[Execute/Dumbo]

I agree, otherwise to maintain logical consistency one would have to argue that the Emperor is not human and while a case can be made for that it's not exactly compatible with our theology to say the least.

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What? No, if you're allowed to worship Xenos gods then that doesn't mean your own species' gods are then in some way not human. If I started worshipping Cthulu and the government said that was allowed, that doesn't mean the Christian big G isn't human anymore.

 

[Durin]

Depending on the legality of the matter we could just exile any cultists to the Eldar.

@Durin
1. Assuming Rids is home now how have the Sirens changed their view of him if at all with his blessing?
2. Are the Crone Blades things in Embers?
3. At developed how far as Rids advanced down the path of ascension?
4. Even with his blessing Rids ain't exactly the best healer, but does it open up some unique chances to heal shards and the like?
5. What level of favour would be needed for the Eldar to give us all their stored up STCs rather than needing to purchase them (I'd like to anyway, but as a marking).
6. What is Lin's view on Isha?
7. How far beyond expectations did Rids manage to get?
8. If we used a favour to decode the data jewels, what level would get them to do all of them at once rather than one at a time or would they just do em all at once?

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1. he is not home but they will respect him significantly
2. yes
3. 2/9 step. he could potentially ascend now but it would require between a Paragon and Master Sorcerer to design the riutal depending on exactly what you could put into the ritual. at 9 the ritual for acending is accepting it
4. with the blessing he is effectively a master healer, not enough to mess with shards but pretty good by human standards
5. wait for the meeting
6. generally positive, she is sane and does not seem to have any problems with humans
7. he pretty much matched their wildest hopes
8. it would be all at once

 

[DragonParadox]

What? No, if you're allowed to worship Xenos gods then that doesn't mean your own species' gods are then in some way not human. If I started worshipping Cthulu and the government said that was allowed, that doesn't mean the Christian big G isn't human anymore.

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You are missing the point. if one argues that xenos gods are not xenos by reason of being gods then it follows that the Emperor a human god is not human for the same reason.

 

[Durin]

Surely Isha is actually a Xeno herself?
I suppose we could ask our experts for advice.
@Durin
1. What does Lin think about allowing humans worshipping Isha?
2. How do we think the High Council would react if the brought the idea up?
2a. Particularly the Inquisition?
3. Would there be actual, observable advantages to such worship?

Isn't that good?

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1. minor herasy
2. badly
2a. yes particulary them
3. a slight boost for healers

 

[dragon]

Isn't that good?

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Not for the subset of isha worshippers that weren't potential chaos cultists.

Not for us when avernite xenos who worship isha take a negative view when we're killing their fellow isha cultists.

Which we can't allow without violating the constitution.

 

[Andres]

If we're worshipping Isha

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We're not. It's heresy. Your idea of getting eldars to train priests is a good one, but it should be applied to Avernite xenos, not humans.

I find it questionable to allow isha worship, because it allows potential chaos recruits to die on the execution pyres untainted.

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It's absolutely a moral evil, but it's the lesser evil. Better to kill an innocent man than let his soul be tainted by the Ruinous Powers. It's worse for a man to lose his soul than his life.

If local xenos take up isha worship, then this is likely to become a point of tension rather than fellowship.

You'd have to recognize it as a 'local religious tradition that acknowledges the imperial truth'. Which it's not currently, and if it were then local religious practices which acknowledge the imperial truth but worship xenos are still unconstitutional.

The constitution would have to be amended to allow this.

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Our constitution does not apply to anyone outside of the Imperial Trust.

 

[agumentic]

If we're worshipping Isha, we need the Eldar to train up our priests so that the worship doesn't create a Fake Isha Daemon. Maybe have the priests work with Lin to optimize it for human worship too.

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"Worshiping Isha is against the law, and if you'll do it you will be killed and your soul sold to Sirens, so here's a full guide on what not to do"? Probably not the bestseller name for a book.

 

[dragon]

M'dude they already worship their own gods and acknowledge the truth with yeah that's a thing.

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The point of tension wouldn't be over the introduction of a new religious figure, it would be over isha cultists not liking that we kill isha cultists.

As a counterpoint to the idea that spreading isha worship would make us closer to avernite xenos who took it up.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

"Worshiping Isha is against the law, and if you'll do it you will be killed and your soul sold to Sirens, so here's a full guide on what not to do"? Probably not the bestseller name for a book.

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Nah we'll exile you to the Eldar.

Its probably a death sentence either way.

The point of tension wouldn't be over the introduction of a new religious figure, it would be over isha cultists not liking that we kill isha cultists.

As a counterpoint to the idea that spreading isha worship would make us closer to avernite xenos who took it up.

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I dunno...I feel the vernites would be chill.

 

[DragonParadox]

"Worshiping Isha is against the law, and if you'll do it you will be killed and your soul sold to Sirens, so here's a full guide on what not to do"? Probably not the bestseller name for a book.

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Actually wait a moment... if the Sirens take up Isha worship and we sell their fellow cultists to them we could very carefully not investigate if those people actually get eaten.

 

[Andres]

3. a slight boost for healers

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Ok, definitely introducing Isha worship to the Avernite xenos.

@Durin, I have an idea I'd like your opinion on. First, the eldar train some of our people on how to be Isha priests. The idea is not that they actually become priests, worshipping Isha and the like, but just to know how to do so. These trained people will then go to Avernite xenos and in turn teach them how to worship Isha, who would worship her and such. The reason behind this is twofold: First, to spread Isha worship amongst the Avernite xenos. Second, so that we, humanity, gets the credit for it, improving relations between us and the xenos.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Actually wait a moment... if the Sirens take up Isha worship and we sell their fellow cultists to them we could very carefully not investigate if those people actually get eaten.

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They may already worship her.

Remember they are the Eldar's cousins.

 

[dragon]

Questionable, in that isha has different virtues which would appeal to different segments of the population, which wouldn't traditionally be vulnerable. Meaning we're killing alot of people that never would have turned to chaos.


For the potential chaos cultists, this is less objectionable than sirens.

Our constitution does not apply to anyone outside of the Imperial Trust.

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It absolutely applies to humans who live on avernus.

Unless you suggest spreading it to xenos while hiding it from humans. In which case it can't serve as a point of commonality.

 

[Shard]

@Durin

1. With Isha's blessing is Ridcully effectively immortal? (Outside of being killed, and I suppose the Eldar would provide biological immortality anyway if he isn't.)
2. Does Isha's blessing qualify Ridcully for providing immortality in others? IIRC we needed Power 35+, Control 35+, Master Biomancy and ???. Does the blessing fulfill the latter two reqs?

 

[Andres]

@Durin, with Ridcully immune to disease, does that mean he suffers none of the backlash from overdosing on potions and drugs?

 

[sargentorion]

yeah one problem with equating the eldar god's to big E, big E was explicitly a human who became a god unlike the eldar gods who were never human.
also the part where in the trust constitution were cults worshiping xenos gods being proscribed would mean humans worshiping xenos gods is not allowed as the cults it references mean human cults on the trust worlds which us allowing Isha worship would be.

let's do the smart move in this and don't mention that the blessing occured.

 

[DragonParadox]

yeah one problem with equating the eldar god's to big E, big E was explicitly a human who became a god unlike the eldar gods who were never human.

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Considering how vastly the Emperor's experience of life diverged from the rest of humanity it's at least debatable if he has enough in common to count as human.