The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
The Power Knife which is probably just a straight boost to melee. this would be nice and I can see it being very helpful but if you are down to just your knife you and need it powered for a problem you are likely buggered anyway. Just because Robart did it with a chaos champion does not immediately make it the go-to for research option.

I actually doubt the power knife will primarily be a combat boost. I'm sure it will give some combat benefit, but It's something cheap enough we might be able to arm our entire population with. I give it a decent chance of giving some kind of econ or morale boost because our population got a universal increase in it's ability to deal with wildlife. If we were not a few years out from a major war I'd likely argue for it. But right now we have a bigger demon to shoot.
 
I wonder if we can import the pilots from Titanfall. Something below Astartes but above regular troops, focusing on making the Eldar look bad. In Titanfall canon the pilot training programs have a 98% fatality rate which would fit in well in 40k.
This is an old idea I had. I'm not sure what to think of it now.
 
Breeching the Defenses of the Plaguefather: An Examination
Breeching the Defenses of the Plaguefather: An Examination


Like all of the core territory of the Chaos pantheon's gods, it is beyond doubt that the Plaguefather's Garden has a vast array of formidable defenses, in addition to being nestled deep within the foul being's domain. Thus, successful completion of the coming mission may very well hinge on how well those participating in it are prepared to face the specific dangers of that realm, as well as how well their strategic approach meshes with both their own strengths and weaknesses in addition to the relative strengths and weaknesses of the defenses and minions of the Plaguefather.


Unfortunately, due to the extreme risks involved in Divining the area in question, as well as the scarcity and value of Diviners capable of directly exploring it, first hand accounts are limited to brief glimpses of extremely small fragments of the Garden, far short of the sort of comprehensive information on the layout or the specific defenses needed to either develop tailored countermeasures or to make a detailed tactical plan for the infiltration. While this certainly limits amount of direct preparation that is possible, the information gleaned from these glimpses has confirmed that the Garden does at least contain similar dangers to the rest of the Plaguefather's territory in the Warp, if vastly scaled up—thus confirming that the standard preparations and countermeasures against that foe will remain relevant. It is of great importance to note, however, that said glimpses are not comprehensive enough to rule out the existence of modes of defense unique to the Garden.


As specific details of the defenses in place have been exhausted, it is time to step back and identify what we can of the relative strengths and weaknesses of the Plaguefather's creations, as while specific details of the defenses in place are unknown, they will likely share the same general characteristics as the rest of his creations. This is further reinforced by our current understanding of the Plaguefather's nature—as while he creates countless new diseases, they are all separated by distinction in the specifics rather than real difference.


The first class of strengths and weaknesses are those intrinsic to what the Plaguefather and his creations are. Characteristics that they can no more voluntarily change than a human could voluntarily decide to be a fish. While correctly identified intrinsic characteristics cannot be changed, though, it is important to note that the certainty of these is limited by our ability to correctly identify a characteristic as being intrinsic to them—to use the prior example, while a human cannot decide to be a fish, they can decide to swim.


As ongoing work by Saint Lin is highly likely to vastly expand our understanding of the intrinsic characteristics of the Plague God, as well as increase the confidence in said understanding, detailed examination of intrinsic strengths and weaknesses would be premature at this time. However, going forward it is important to note that based on our current understanding of one of his primary domains being Stagnation, it is likely that any active defenses will be relatively weak, whereas passive and reactive defenses will be strengthened—an observation that has been verified in other territories defended by him.


A second class of relative strengths and weaknesses are those based on historical experience. While the gods of Chaos are notoriously slow to learn from their experiences by human standards, as well as possessing vast blind spots relative to even the dimmest of sapient mortals, the sheer weight of experience derived from countless millennia of war have both driven the development of and greatly influenced the shape of their myriad defenses. While strengths and weaknesses developed and highlighted through this process lack the certainty and immutability of those that spring from their intrinsic nature, it is nonetheless reasonable to assume them to remain true for unknown defenses and countermeasures without evidence to the contrary.


First among the circumstances dictating the growth of the Plaguefather's defenses is, of course, the eternal war between him and the forces of the Lord of a Change. While a constant state of low-level skirmishing to outright war exists between all the forces of Chaos, baring the most exceptional of circumstances, has lead to defenses honed against each style of threat, this does not mean that the defenses and the experience countering are equally balanced. The degree of enmity held by the forces representing change for the forces representing stagnation, and vice versa, has ensured that each has far more experience fighting, and devoted far more of their defenses to countering, their respective opponent.


Unfortunately, this means that while the Plaguefather's forces have little aptitude towards the divinatory arts, their measures against hostile divination have been honed to a razor's edge simply to prevent the Lord of Change's minions from exploiting their massive advantage there to its fullest. Although it may seem like repeating the obvious, do no underestimate the relative simplicity or lack of flair in the Plaguefather's many defenses—they conceal their lethal effectiveness and reliability.


Of course, while the general anti-divinatory defenses are strong, they are specifically designed to counter the forces of the Lord of Change, whose behavior profile is substantially different from our own. Thanks to recent revelations about the intrinsic nature of both the Lord of Change and its forces, it is possible to at least in part predict the form of the countermeasures for a given specific weaknesses or intrinsic characteristic to be exploited, and thereby better avoid them.


First and most importantly among the intrinsic characteristics of any minion of the Lord of Change is their ambition. The desire, the raw need to reach beyond their grasp, never satisfied with their current lot, underlies their every action, and the forces of the Plaguefather have doubtless learned to exploit this to its fullest. Be very cautious of overextension in any manner—it is behavior they have come to expect from those that dare trespass, and tantalizing secrets are carefully arranged to draw the ambitious or incautious in ever further, until all hope of escaping with their bounty is lost. The defenses in place are not designed to blow through your shields in one fell swoop once you are detected, instead they will bog you down while eating away at you at an ever-increasing pace. Do not tarry too long even in a seemingly undefended area, for though there is just enough gold scattered among the dross to seem worth sorting through, the true purpose is to delay those blinded by its shine while the many reactive defenses of the entire realm spin up to further heights.


Another important characteristic of the minions of the Lord of Change that the Plaguefather's defenses are tuned to handle is their sublime mastery of intrigue and stealth, for their ever-present need to reach beyond their grasp is constantly forcing them to face down those they have no hope of attacking directly. As the Plaguefather's forces have abysmal inherent skills on this front, though, rather than attempting to match stealth with hunters and plotting with counter-espionage, a different direction is taken. Detecting and hunting down interlopers directly is unnecessary when every breath they take invites in the ever-present disease, trickery is impossible when the forces are too simple to fool, and backstabbing non-existent when none desire to supplant another. While his minions will certainly attempt to hunt you down should they detect you (most frequently due to simple passage being enough to disturb the careful equilibrium of the Garden), the spore and disease filled air and the bog-covered ground are their main defense against those that sneak. Responses to diversions are either predictable but nearly useless or almost random—similar in many ways to Orks. And unlike Orks, they lack any motivation towards infighting.


Final among the types of dangers in the Plaguefather's Garden are the circumstantial. These are further divided into those dictated by the immediate distribution of his forces at the time of infiltration as well as the random if impermanent hazards of the Warp. While these are all but impossible to predict with any certainty, there are still specific things to be cautious about. First among these is the inevitability of traps left by the Changer of Ways. While the Plaguefather himself largely avoids traps in the traditional sense due to the ability of his primary enemies to co-opt or avoid them, over the course of their unending war innumerable traps have been scattered by the Changer to aid his forces and impede his foes. It is also important to note that among said traps may be traps specifically tailored to our forces, as underestimating its planning abilities have been the downfall of many a Seer.


Second among these circumstantial dangers is the effective environment in the Warp. While anything from storms to currents are possible, it is unlikely that so great a perturbation would be allowed by the Plaguefather so close to the core of his domain. Another possibility of note, however, is the unceasing war in the Warp heating up—either due to chance, successful actions of friendly Seers, or even 'helpful' actions from the Changer of Ways to aid in our humiliation of his rival or for reasons of its own. While chaos of this nature creates opportunity, the possibilities are far to numerous to delve into in this work.

@Durin omake
 
I'm pretty sure Nurglites fight each other. They'd be the most powerful Chaos faction around if they had no infighting.
Might have wanted to clarify, but my impression was more limited in-fighting within a given group, like Abomination followers, and no backstabbing, but they don't automatically follow orders. The reason they can't effectively cooperate as being more because they favor stagnation internally as well—thus anyone suggesting big plans gets hammered down. Left alone they just sit there and rot, and they're only getting up to do anything if they think it'll please their papa.
 
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Nurglites are the fat lazy slobs of Chaos. They laze around rotting and dancing, and aren't particularly active unless they're up against Tzeentchian plots. Nurglites love screwing over the Tzeentchians.
 
Munitorium
-Y1 - Implement ( phoenix gunship): Plannine
-Y3- Implement ( Shadowbat stealth assault shuttle)
-Y5- Implement ( Phoenix bomber)

save some money and get these implement

Void Command
-Y2 - Construct: Defence Monitors for the trust

I want to make too costly to attack Avernus by adding 290 monitrs should help


Adeptus Administration

-Y2 - Take over Build Hive: (Lonely Mountain)

I am doing this to free up Rotbart for the coming war

Diplomacy
-Y1
- Make a request (ask her if she would be willing to leave Avernus to help kill Turoq and any forces that get in her way?)
-Y2- Sound Out ( trading all tech) times two
-Y4 Sound Out ( sending out Scott, Ridicully, Saint Lin, Surt, Aelfric, and King Zaren) times two

Arbites
_Slot A
-Y1 Integrate Nulls - Expedite
-Y4- Integrate Voids -Expedite

Slot B
-Y1 - Counter Intelligence
-Y2 - Focused Psyker Hunting
-Y3- Focused Psyker Hunting
-Y4 -Focused Psyker Hunting
-Y5 - Focused Psyker hunting

Adeptus Mechanicus

Tranth
-Y2 - Redo Void shells if fail, If successful Gravitic Engines Part Three: Replicate -Double Down
Max

-Y4- Complete examination meteor fig
Fabricator General
-Y4- Build Vault Dis
Free option
-Y1- Titan design double down

Trying to get as much tech as possible for the meeting. Also really hate I am spending so much relic material

Adeptus Ministorum
-Y2- Those in the shadows twice
-Y3 - The Nature of ( Abomination) twice and double down

doing those in the shadow twice so I can get a triple down on the Abomination

Adeptus Telepathica

Ridicully
-Y1- Greater divination ( Turoq's attack plans)
-Y2- Divination: Attacks
-Y3- Fanning the Flames
-Y4- Greater Divination: The Throne of the Plague God -Double down
Xavier
-Y4- Ward Vault Dis
Tamia
-Y3- Siren rune of bridge
Aria
-Y4- Implement Siren rune of trap

Personal
Slot A
-Y1- A New assistant
-Y2-Y5 Deployment

Slot D
-Y1- Spend time with ridicully
-Y2- Spend time with ridicully
-Y3-Spend time with ridicully
-Y4-Spend time with Surt
-Y5- Spend time with Surt

Ok here is plan 2.0 let me hear the suggestions and reason why to change.
 
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@Nurgle

Few plan issues/ideas/preferences

First, I'd like to join the general chorus for doing a cheap-ish tech implementation option for Munitorum. Locator shells seem like they'll be cheap, easy, and give us an immediate boost against Turoq, especially relevant as a big fight's going to be happening in 2-10 years, but that's personal preference.

Second, I'd make the Deployment conditional for Rotbart on if attacks are actually incoming in the time frame and otherwise have him do something else—either some quick education reforms, readiness training, or the 5-year education reform from our departed assistant.

Third, I'd confirm we can get Ridcully all the Black Crystal stuff at a relevant time for the Divination if Rotbart's away, as travel time here isn't exactly instantaneous.
 
Munitorium
-Y1 - Implement ( phoenix gunship): Plannine
-Y3- Implement ( Shadowbat stealth assault shuttle)
-Y5- Implement ( Phoenix bomber)
Get the locator shells first. They're a major boon to both ground combat and space combat, far more than any other unimplemented tech. More accurate artillery is super good to have.

Void Command
-Y2 - Construct: Defence Monitors -Expedite
-Y4- Construct: Defence Monitors - Expedite

I want to make too costly to attack Avernus by adding 290 monitrs should help
It's already too costly to attack Avernus. Give the monitors to the Trust, who'll be the ones to actually need it in defence against Turoq.

-Y1 Integrate Nulls - Expedite
-Y3- Integrate Voids -Expedite
Can't expedite non-construction projects.

Adeptus Ministorum
-Y2- Those in the shadows twice
-Y3 - The Nature of ( Abomination) twice and double down

doing those in the shadow twice so I can get a triple down on the Abomination
Doing those in the shadows first is absolutely pointless. Furthermore, while I think slot 1 Y2 should be Abomination, I think slot 2 Y3 should be Malal. We should look at all the Gods of Chaos before looking at Chaos as a whole.

Tamia
-Y3- Siren rune of lighting
Aria
-Y4- Implement Siren rune of trap
I'd like for the Trap rune to be implemented by Tamia on Y3. Turoq could invade this turn, and it's critical that we get the Trap rune before then due to how many psykers he uses.
 
Get the locator shells first. They're a major boon to both ground combat and space combat, far more than any other unimplemented tech. More accurate artillery is super good to have.


It's already too costly to attack Avernus. Give the monitors to the Trust, who'll be the ones to actually need it in defence against Turoq.


Can't expedite non-construction projects.


Doing those in the shadows first is absolutely pointless. Furthermore, while I think slot 1 Y2 should be Abomination, I think slot 2 Y3 should be Malal. We should look at all the Gods of Chaos before looking at Chaos as a whole.


I'd like for the Trap rune to be implemented by Tamia on Y3. Turoq could invade this turn, and it's critical that we get the Trap rune before then due to how many psykers he uses.
1 changing to located shells.

2 if more people want to change to the trust I will.

3 the point of doing those in the shadows is so I can do a double down on the mechanic action in year 2

4 the wording is implementing a plan to implement the rune. Essentially coming up with a plan to get a action to implement it.
 
I can confirm that it is highly unlikely that Turoq will attack Avernus. One of his traits is wise and he has seen what happened to the lsat few attacks.
 
-Y1- Invesitgate Asgard new Governor
Change this to Make a Request (Areatha's help fighting Turoq). Fighting his invasion forces will be way easier with her there. As a bonus, Turoq may decide to personally join one of the invasion forces like he did in the last big raid, which means we'll have an opening to permakill him. Areatha is much more powerful than him and has an ungodly amount of psychic stealth to boot, so if we can get her in the same battlefield as him, it's near guaranteed that she'll be able to reach him and permakill him, especially if we loan her the Black Crystal Sword.
 
Change this to Make a Request (Areatha's help fighting Turoq). Fighting his invasion forces will be way easier with her there. As a bonus, Turoq may decide to personally join one of the invasion forces like he did in the last big raid, which means we'll have an opening to permakill him. Areatha is much more powerful than him and has an ungodly amount of psychic stealth to boot, so if we can get her in the same battlefield as him, it's near guaranteed that she'll be able to reach him and permakill him, especially if we loan her the Black Crystal Sword.
Do we have the high council permission to allow Areatha off Avernus? Because them letting a xeno human alpha psyker off Avernus sounds out of character.

@Durin would the high council be ok with us taking Areatha off Avernus?
 
I can confirm that it is highly unlikely that Turoq will attack Avernus. One of his traits is wise and he has seen what happened to the lsat few attacks.
@Durin
1. Given his likely perfect knowledge of our defences (or perfect enough to make no real difference), which worlds would logical deduction say are at the top of his list of targets based on our understanding of his personality, least defence or highest damage to the trust?
2. When has Sarnow been in boarding actions...
2ii. More to the point why is Sarnow leading aggressive boarding actions?
3. Whose ships have been making probes of us for the last few years Turoq's or someone elses? People have been saying that Turoq's only able to project force because of Dark Mech favours, I want to check that.
4. Given again his seemingly perfect knowledge of everything we have, if Turoq is aware of someone with the capabilities to permanently kill him without a powerful and hard to use technique such as Xavier, like say Jacob with the BCS, Jane or Areatha how likely would it be that he will simply decide not to show up.
 
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@Durin
did you miss my questions?
Do you want me to repost them?

Edit:
You know I'm not sure if more than five regiments of avernites have ever broken from moral. I know there was one during the carniflower ramage and one during the first chaos invasion

@Durin
1) How many avernite regiments have broken and retreated?
2) if there are any how any more what did they break too?
I'm betting on daemons and animals of Avernus only

Edit:
WHY DO I ONLY HAVE ONE LIKE

Edit Edit:
3)Does anyone have a link to the discord I can't find it, it should occupy me for a while.
And
1) how does the milita do against the guard of the other remnants? Already done
2) pdf?
3) hell troopers
4) hell guard
5) the average trust guard
 
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@Durin
1. Given his likely perfect knowledge of our defences (or perfect enough to make no real difference), which worlds would logical deduction say are at the top of his list of targets based on our understanding of his personality, least defence or highest damage to the trust?
2. When has Sarnow been in boarding actions...
2ii. More to the point why is Sarnow leading aggressive boarding actions?
3. Whose ships have been making probes of us for the last few years Turoq's or someone elses? People have been saying that Turoq's only able to project force because of Dark Mech favours, I want to check that.
4. Given again his seemingly perfect knowledge of everything we have, if Turoq is aware of someone with the capabilities to permanently kill him without a powerful and hard to use technique such as Xavier, like say Jacob with the BCS, Jane or Areatha how likely would it be that he will simply decide not to show up.
1. Asgard, Alfheim and Jotunheim are the most likely. Svartalfheim, Midgard and Byzantium are possible. Avernus and Vanaheim are certain not be be attack with Muspelheim and Nilfheim hard to tell
2. Whenever he fights Orks mostly. And counter boarding more then aggressive
3. Mix of Turoq and Dark Mechanicus.
4. You spent that he will go far out of his way to avoid anyone able to permakill him. Especially the BCS and Areatha which are not only able to permakill him but likely to. His personal flaw is cowardice.
 
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You know I'm not sure if more than five regiments of avernites have ever broken from moral. I know there was one during the carniflower ramage and one during the first chaos invasion

@Durin
1) How many avernite regiments have broken and retreated?
2) if there are any how any more what did they break too?
I'm betting on daemons and animals of Avernus only

Edit:

WHY DO I ONLY HAVE ONE LIKE

Edit Edit:
Does anyone have a link to the discord I can't find it, it should occupy me for a while.
1. Some mostly at a lower level of focus then you see
2. And Orks
 
Especially the BCS and Areatha which are not only able to permakill him but likely to.
Remember guys, this is only assuming that he can tell she's there. Areatha has Transcendent Control, which prevents Turoq from shutting down her illusions with his Paragon traits. Not only that, but her wide variety of powers and her Transcendent trait means she can creatively get around the specific way Gift of Insight works, just like she can get around Sees no Barriers.

@Durin, Sees no Barriers not only lets Ridcully see through wards, it also lets him see through "interference". What exactly does "interference" mean?
 
Ok first the me and now this.

Autocorrupt strikes again!


@Durin
1. Why Asgard? Cause he crippled em already?
2. Do we know which Dark Mech?
1. that and they are on the lower end of defences for the core world
2. Atlas + at least 1 other
Remember guys, this is only assuming that he can tell she's there. Areatha has Transcendent Control, which prevents Turoq from shutting down her illusions with his Paragon traits. Not only that, but her wide variety of powers and her Transcendent trait means she can creatively get around the specific way Gift of Insight works, just like she can get around Sees no Barriers.

@Durin, Sees no Barriers not only lets Ridcully see through wards, it also lets him see through "interference". What exactly does "interference" mean?
basically background warp radiation
 
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