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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Enjou said:
2. We could only redirect the Headcrusha's Waaagh locally. As in once it entered our local vicinity, and we could use our harassment fleets to bait it in a general direction. This only worked because of how close they were to our territory, our foreknowledge of their routes, and the fact that Headcrusha was an utter moron. This would not really work on a Waaagh that's far away from our territory, on the basis that we can't send substantial fleet elements out that far and ensure they've got up to date info from Ridcully, and because most Warbosses aren't nearly as stupid as Headcrusha.
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I disagree, farseers do that kind of thing pretty much all the time. And as I just said, it's likely not possible but if any happen to be close enough due to traveling we may be able to do it or we may not. But we do have one of the best mortal seers ever and he has been responsible with the fanning the flames actions which has seriously bought us a ton of time against the local Ork hoard.

I think we do have a chance even if it's a small one that depends on a lot of favorable factors. Though the deal with the Eldar may make it far likely thanks to access to their webway.
 
Red Bovine said:
I disagree, farseers do that kind of thing pretty much all the time. And as I just said, it's likely not possible but if any happen to be close enough due to traveling we may be able to do it or we may not. But we do have one of the best mortal seers ever and he has been responsible with the fanning the flames actions which has seriously bought us a ton of time against the local Ork hoard.

I think we do have a chance even if it's a small one that depends on a lot of favorable factors. Though the deal with the Eldar may make it far likely thanks to access to their webway.
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*sigh* Farseers have access to the Webway. We do not, at least not at this time. We do not have the capacity to send ships great distances easily. This is our entire problem with respect to dealing with Turoq - travel time matters.

Again, as I've stated before, Ridcully doesn't just magically make the Orks do stuff when he does Fanning the Flames. We actually have people go and do things to nudge the Orks over in Tugozak's domain, but that's with them killing other Orks they're already at war with. Getting a large enough fleet element to actually influence a Waaagh over to the big Ork domain that's over 400 LY away would take far too long, and cost us too many ships that we need for defense.
 
Enjou said:
Again, as I've stated before, Ridcully doesn't just magically make the Orks do stuff when he does Fanning the Flames. We actually have people go and do things to nudge the Orks over in Tugozak's domain, but that's with them killing other Orks they're already at war with. Getting a large enough fleet element to actually influence a Waaagh over to the big Ork domain that's over 400 LY away would take far too long, and cost us too many ships that we need for defense.
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Agreed.

Take Ghazkul for example, the nudge Eldrad used to get him not going towards a craftworld was sending him an entire space hulk.

We don't have the ability to do anything even close to that with our resources.
 
Question: Turoq's neighbours - who are they?

Obviously interested in if any of them have bad enough relations with Turoq that igniting or fanning the flames of a war is possible.

Should be a lot easier vs Chaos than most others, because of chronic backstabbing syndrome, if nothing else.
 
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Enjou said:
Added loaning out the Ramilies and the Last Hunters to my plan.



How in the hell would we influence a Waaagh from a domain that's 400 light years away? Remember that Fanning the Flames isn't done through pure magic - Ridcully makes his predictions, and then stealth ships are sent with teams of assassins and whatnot to nudge events so that Warbosses die, and this is a group that's already fighting eachother. That's a lot different than trying to make an entire Waaagh head to a specific target hundreds of lightyears away, when Turoq isn't even the best fight in the region and thus doesn't appeal as much to the Orks in the first place. (there's a reason that the Waaaghs we've dealt with have been heading for us, rather than other targets)

But maybe we should actually ask about this before just assuming we can do it or not.

@Durin
1. What are the chances of us actually being able to cause a Waaagh to attack Turoq?
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1. low but existent, basically if there is a waaagh that is already heading in the right general direction you may be able to redirect it a bit if Ridcully is paying attention at the exact right time
 
You know, we could also maybe let the Eldar know about Turoq's plans. Even if they can't give us better FTL access, I'm sure they have some assets in the area and a vested interest in not letting our advanced technology fall into the hands of Chaos. It just makes their work much harder in the long run. They might not be able to help us formally but even a few occasional 'accidental' guerilla attacks might be worth it.

...Incidentally, have we ever warded the high council meeting building or the low council or any of the various councils against scrying and other sundry demonic attacks? That seems like a pretty good step to take.
 
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Stormgear said:
...Incidentally, have we ever warded the high council meeting building against scrying? That seems like a pretty good step to take.
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I believe they've always had some of the strongest wards in the Trust.

@Durin
1. What do we think Turoq's chances against a level 2 waargh are?

Out of curiosity since I agree with Enjou if the opportunity comes, but its so small its negligible?
 
Doomed Wombat said:
I believe they've always had some of the strongest wards in the Trust.

@Durin
1. What do we think Turoq's chances against a level 2 waargh are?

Out of curiosity since I agree with Enjou if the opportunity comes, but its so small its negligible?
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1. you are not that sure, but given his forces and how smart he seems to be he would win without suffering crippling damage but not without major damage depending on the Waaagh and leader of course, a waaaght hat would be minor with headcrusha in charge would be an existential threat with Garkill in charge
 
[X] Plan Additions

@Durin
1. Are warded ships faster in the warp? I mean aside from greater resistance to warp turbulence (like going in for 1 year and it taking 10) slowing them down.
 
Enjou said:
So practically non-existent, then. Honestly doesn't bear mention in our strategy, then.
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...There is a difference between low and non existant which the QM himself just said. Considering that we are likely going to be doing divinantion on them even if the odds are low it does seem like it would be worth mentioning since if Ridcully does see an opportunity then that would be great for us and would play a major role if we got lucky. And again, it costs us nothing.
 
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Red Bovine said:
...There is a difference between low and non existant which the QM himself just said. Considering that we are likely going to be doing divinantion on them even if the odds are low it does seem like it would be worth mentioning since if Ridcully does see an opportunity then that would be great for us and would play a major role if we got lucky. And again, it costs us nothing.
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When it requires that the Waaagh A) be on a suitable route and B) Ridcully paying attention at the exact right time, then the chances of it happening seem like they'd be too low to really consider it worthwhile to pursue.
 
Enjou said:
When it requires that the Waaagh A) be on a suitable route and B) Ridcully paying attention at the exact right time, then the chances of it happening seem like they'd be too low to really consider it worthwhile to pursue.
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And if we're lucky and a waaargh does turn up when we divine I don't see why we can't initiate re-directive efforts?
 
Enjou said:
When it requires that the Waaagh A) be on a suitable route and B) Ridcully paying attention at the exact right time, then the chances of it happening seem like they'd be too low to really consider it worthwhile to pursue.
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...I just said that we are likely going to have Ridcully spend years doing divination on those guys anyway. If he finds something great, would help a lot and for all we know low may mean something like a 90 DC. If not oh well, but would be nice to have the Inquisition on the up and up if we find an opportunity.
 
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Enjou said:
Sure. If we're that lucky it's fine. But it's not something that really bears mentioning as part of a strategy here because of how low the chances of it actually happening are.
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Well maybe mentioning in a "if we get the chance we do this, but its not guaranteed kinda way."

Leave our options open, but don't commit ourselves to it.
 
Enjou said:
Sure. If we're that lucky it's fine. But it's not something that really bears mentioning as part of a strategy here because of how low the chances of it actually happening are.
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Yes it has a low chance but it will involve setting up the work before hand. Such as divining the all the Waaghs in the region and getting what is nessary to lead them or attack them into attacking Turoq.
 
Enjou said:
Sure. If we're that lucky it's fine. But it's not something that really bears mentioning as part of a strategy here because of how low the chances of it actually happening are.
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Like I said, despite the odds of it happening if it does happen the rest of the Trust would probably need to be informed anyway since if we do get lucky us being able to send a waagh could change things. For example Turoq may suffer serious damage which could change things a lot. We would also like to have the Inquisition ready to help. It's likely just a small mention but an important one that could be said with just a few lines from Rotbart. Again doesn't really hurt to mention it.
 
@Durin

1. How long does Rotbart expect a raid to require to achieve a minimal success? How much does this vary with defenses?
a. Assuming the raiders are prepared to suffer catastrophic losses to achieve success in acquiring tech, what minimum force ratio would a raiding force need to guarantee success?
2. Is blockading a (friendly) planet with mines a practical thing?
 
[X] Plan Additions

Sheesh, people forgetting the very thing Enjou has explained twice now: Fanning the Flames involves not just Ridcully Divining a given subject, but also a group of allies near to the subject to take advantage of his Divinations. Ridcully may be a Seer on par with higher level Farseers, but that is only as a Seer. Only in the Seer subaspect of Divination does he have range greater than Orbital, while Farseers can nudge probability at ranges over 1 Light Year (we don't often know in canon how close the Eldar need to be to do these kinds of things).

Sheesh, it's like people think that because Ridcully knows something will happen, he can retroactively reshape reality so that he changes what will happen. That is higher tier than even the Eldar can achieve. Even the Necrons only have one guy who can attempt that, and Orikan can't forsee warp stuff which makes his divinations too iffy for such matters.
 
sabreFather said:
[X] Plan Additions

Sheesh, people forgetting the very thing Enjou has explained twice now: Fanning the Flames involves not just Ridcully Divining a given subject, but also a group of allies near to the subject to take advantage of his Divinations. Ridcully may be a Seer on par with higher level Farseers, but that is only as a Seer. Only in the Seer subaspect of Divination does he have range greater than Orbital, while Farseers can nudge probability at ranges over 1 Light Year (we don't often know in canon how close the Eldar need to be to do these kinds of things).

Sheesh, it's like people think that because Ridcully knows something will happen, he can retroactively reshape reality so that he changes what will happen. That is higher tier than even the Eldar can achieve. Even the Necrons only have one guy who can attempt that, and Orikan can't forsee warp stuff which makes his divinations too iffy for such matters.
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The reason we think Ridicully can do that is because he can. He is better than any living Farseer and can see events years to decades in advance. Which would give the inquisition even with the slow mobility they have the ability to kill or influence a event. The only reason it is possible is because Ridicully is better than any other living Farseer. I said that twice to emphasize that the only seers better than him are Demons, gods, dead, or possible the one Necron Guy.
 
sabreFather said:
[X] Plan Additions

Sheesh, people forgetting the very thing Enjou has explained twice now: Fanning the Flames involves not just Ridcully Divining a given subject, but also a group of allies near to the subject to take advantage of his Divinations. Ridcully may be a Seer on par with higher level Farseers, but that is only as a Seer. Only in the Seer subaspect of Divination does he have range greater than Orbital, while Farseers can nudge probability at ranges over 1 Light Year (we don't often know in canon how close the Eldar need to be to do these kinds of things).

Sheesh, it's like people think that because Ridcully knows something will happen, he can retroactively reshape reality so that he changes what will happen. That is higher tier than even the Eldar can achieve. Even the Necrons only have one guy who can attempt that, and Orikan can't forsee warp stuff which makes his divinations too iffy for such matters.
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the QM just said that Ridcully could pull off what we talked about. We also aren't assuming he can do whatever and have based things off what we've seen far seers do. Farseers do this kind of things literally all the time. So it doesn't seem weird to think that Ridcully can do something similar and guess what? The QM did fact confirm that he could though we are limited.
Adhoc vote count started by Red Bovine on Jul 22, 2018 at 12:29 AM, finished with 231 posts and 21 votes.
  • [X] Plan Additions
    -[X] Chapter Master Julius's plan is sound. Rotbart has no objections or changes to it.
    -[X] We will have Ridcully spending some time predicting enemy attacks. There's not likely any among the enemy who are better, though we should still not rely overly on this given the nature of the enemy.
    -[X] We can feed spies information to help trap the enemy. This will be less effective than normal though, given the opponent and their awareness that we use such traps.
    -[X] It may be useful to create some highly warded fleet elements that are difficult for the enemy to divine and detect in the Warp. We will also prioritize research on the Siren Rune of Warding, which is likely to help.
    -[X] We will ask the Ancient Wanderer if she is aware of any Avernus people's who might be able to help sabotage enemy efforts without leaving the planet. Everything that lives on Avernus hates Chaos.
    -[X] Propose the seconding of the Ramilles star fort to the Trust Navy with Deployment based on the Security Council needs for the duration of this crisis
    -[X] Avernus will loan out half the Last Hunters to help assassinate enemy leaders, spies, psykers, etc.
    [X] Plan drive the Barbarian back
    -[X]vote for Chapter Master Julian's Plan
    -[X] propose the deployment of half the last hunters.
    -[X] propose letting Tranth apply stealth technology to assault shuttles. So we can start ambushing incoming raiders.
    -[X] propose warding of ships so that they can respond to attacks without demons spotting them.
    -[X] propose the inquisition find a way to Assassinate chaos leaders are o cause rebellion in Turoq realm or lead a Waagh to attack Turoq. Act only if feasible. Offer Ridicully help in these if necessary.
    -[X] Propose the seconding of the Ramilles star fort to the Trust Navy with Deployment based on the Security Council needs for the duration of this crisis
    -[X] We will ask the Ancient Wanderer if she is aware of any Avernus people's who might be able to help sabotage enemy efforts without leaving the planet.
    -[X] We will have Ridcully spending some time predicting enemy attacks.
    [x] short term plan (revised)
    [X] Plan Moderated Additions
    -[X] Chapter Master Julius's plan is sound. Rotbart has no objections or changes to it.
    -[X] It may be useful to create some highly warded fleet elements that are difficult for the enemy to divine and detect in the Warp. We will also prioritize research on the Siren Rune of Warding, which is likely to help.
    -[X] We will ask the Ancient Wanderer if she is aware of any Avernus people's who might be able to help sabotage enemy efforts without leaving the planet. Everything that lives on Avernus hates Chaos.
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Since we suck so much in warp travel, we should make getting access to the Webway a priority.

If Vanaheim has a Gateway, maybe we can locate it and start studying it.
 
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