The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
Here's an idea, have at least one of Avernus' armies tutor the PDF's of the colonies to help them get up to that +100 bonus. We said we'd be okay with deploying 8 long-term yes? 5 should be more than enough to have tutoring take place across our colonies, and I doubt we'll need more than that, probably more like 3.
 
No it's not, it's one level below. Super Heavy is level 6, currently all Avernus cities have Incredibly Heavy defenses (lvl 7) with the exception of psyker cities who have Ultra Heavy ones (lvl 8).
Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 3953

We're still listed as Super Heavy level 6 defenses.

Half the fleet we make goes to the Trust. For every warp ship they make they must make another for the trust. So they are helping the trust greatly in that way. While they are the largest shipyard in the trust Midguard and Avernus are still growing their as well as the colonial shipyards. It is similiar to the way Midgard provides more troops than everyone else. It is incredibly valuable but Midgard also has its own fleet.
I'm a little unclear on what you mean here.

Building a massive navy is why Vanaheim is contributing more than their fair share to the Trust though. No one else spends so much on ships the way they do. Troops aren't contributed at anywhere near the 50/50 split of ships, and Midgard throwing people at the problem isn't really at all comparable. Midgard has so many people they'd rather get rid of them than keep them, so it's no great expense for them to throw 20 billion people at a problem, I rather doubt they spend all that much on them.

Vanaheim spending so much on their fleet despite knowing that half of it will go to the Trust is a huge contribution. Whereas you look at someplace like Svartalfheim where they choose instead to spend on building up defenses which suffer no tithe at all. You can look at it from the perspective of how much a planet spends on defenses versus ships being how much they want to contribute to the Trust. The more they spend on defenses the less they contribute to the Trust. By spending itself into massive debt on ships, Vanaheim has contributed a huge amount to the Trust. By running a surplus and building up absurd defenses, Svartalfheim has focused on itself.

Troops are sort of a middle ground because they suffer a much smaller tithe than ships, but do have a tithe unlike defenses.

What I wil be proposing besides banking reform, is to raise the tithe, increase the rebate and to bring even more of the current core worlds military to be under the trust. The most expensive thing we have is that we are paying for the upkeep of our forces. Both the fleet and the hellguard cost significant amount. I believe that tithing more ships or tithing even more troops with revenues raised from taxes/tithe/levies would greatly help pay for the expansion we need with out putting too much of a financial burden on the core worlds but on the trust as a whole.

We need to grow the economy of not just the core worlds but the trust as a whole. In order to do that we need time and stability.
The Trust as a whole is in far larger debt than any individual member. Trying to offload our upkeep cost onto the Trust isn't going to work because they can afford it less than we can.

These is the end times while we are about to finish book one soon, us making it to the end is not guaranteed. It is why he has been so generous with everything.
Surviving any point is not guaranteed. However throwing away our future to ensure the now only ensures that we definitely die when the economy implodes later. Given we know there is a later, we can't afford that. We have to take risks now to avoid certain death later.

Don't higher ground defenses allow better defenses of Orbitals?
In every war we've had the ground defenses have contributed very little to defending the orbitals. It's there, but it's so minor it might as well not be.

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Forces capable of defeating higher-level orbital defenses will have bigger, more powerful ground contingents. Meanwhile, sufficiently heavy ground defenses can hold off non-exterminatus orbital attack pretty much indefinitely, and are more likely to hold against ground forces long enough for reinforcements to arrive.
No it really doesn't work that way. It straight up means you need a bigger attack force to accomplish anything against that planet. Whereas lower orbital defenses and higher ground defenses still means our enemies can land outside the cities and do whatever the fuck they want in the countryside outside the cities. This is really bad against both Chaos and Orks. Chaos because they can do rituals in the countryside that still give you a bad day even without ever assaulting your walls. Orks because it means they can start up an Ork ecosystem. Orbital defenses are actually especially effective against orks because they bring their transports in as capital ships rather than protecting them, so every ship you shoot down decreases their ground forces.

You're also assuming the enemy won't exterminatus. We've been told you need at least some orbital control to execute an exterminatus, but you don't have to do anything to the ground defenses for that. Why wouldn't an enemy exterminatus a planet with tough ground defenses and lacking orbital defenses? This becomes even more dangerous when you consider expected chaos raids where they have no hope of holding the planet long term and just want to cripple us. They aren't going to be able to overwhelm even Heavy defenses before reinforcements arrive. Running around exterminatusing our colonies would cripple the Trust in short order in a way landing raiders and shooting at walls for a couple days before having to run away won't.
 
We're still listed as Super Heavy level 6 defenses.
It's a bit out of date (the table not the sheet), we are at level 7 IIRC we were at level 6 after the incursion.

You're also assuming the enemy won't exterminatus. We've been told you need at least some orbital control to execute an exterminatus, but you don't have to do anything to the ground defenses for that. Why wouldn't an enemy exterminatus a planet with tough ground defenses and lacking orbital defenses? This becomes even more dangerous when you consider expected chaos raids where they have no hope of holding the planet long term and just want to cripple us. They aren't going to be able to overwhelm even Heavy defenses before reinforcements arrive. Running around exterminatusing our colonies would cripple the Trust in short order in a way landing raiders and shooting at walls for a couple days before having to run away won't.
Hopefully he won't have Exterminatus to use. Chaos doesn't use em often.
 
Here's an idea, have at least one of Avernus' armies tutor the PDF's of the colonies to help them get up to that +100 bonus. We said we'd be okay with deploying 8 long-term yes? 5 should be more than enough to have tutoring take place across our colonies, and I doubt we'll need more than that, probably more like 3.
Actually I'm pretty sure PDF of Trust colnies already have base skill bonus of more than +100. Colony armies are based on Midgard ones (though slightly worse due to less established tradition and facilities, though that's partially compensated by Orkworld bonus) and Midgardian PDF has base skill bonus of +154 to +164.

That's outdated, we finished upgrading our defenses to lvl7 just before the Green Awakening.
 
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No it really doesn't work that way. It straight up means you need a bigger attack force to accomplish anything against that planet. Whereas lower orbital defenses and higher ground defenses still means our enemies can land outside the cities and do whatever the fuck they want in the countryside outside the cities. This is really bad against both Chaos and Orks. Chaos because they can do rituals in the countryside that still give you a bad day even without ever assaulting your walls. Orks because it means they can start up an Ork ecosystem. Orbital defenses are actually especially effective against orks because they bring their transports in as capital ships rather than protecting them, so every ship you shoot down decreases their ground forces.
Except higher ground defenses can still reduce the impact of a feral Ork ecosystem flaring up every so often, and probably allows for smaller garrisons, meaning you can afford larger forces when you sally out to disrupt whatever warpy bullshit the Chaos bastards are trying to pull.
You're also assuming the enemy won't exterminatus. We've been told you need at least some orbital control to execute an exterminatus, but you don't have to do anything to the ground defenses for that. Why wouldn't an enemy exterminatus a planet with tough ground defenses and lacking orbital defenses? This becomes even more dangerous when you consider expected chaos raids where they have no hope of holding the planet long term and just want to cripple us. They aren't going to be able to overwhelm even Heavy defenses before reinforcements arrive. Running around exterminatusing our colonies would cripple the Trust in short order in a way landing raiders and shooting at walls for a couple days before having to run away won't.
Exterminatus warheads are rare, and for most are probably irreplaceable. They likely can't afford to just spam them, especially if it destroys the prize they're after in the process.
 
Yeah that is out of date. But if we need to we can have Vanaheim reclassified as strategic importance and help with there defense.

Them raising there defenses and the pdf can only help them and the trust long term.
 
Except higher ground defenses can still reduce the impact of a feral Ork ecosystem flaring up every so often, and probably allows for smaller garrisons, meaning you can afford larger forces when you sally out to disrupt whatever warpy bullshit the Chaos bastards are trying to pull.
Yeah, but you don't want to do that because that means fighting them without defences...so better they not get there on the ground in the first place so the ecosystem never appears and chaos can't do the rituals.

I mean it is best to have both of course.
 
Yeah, but you don't want to do that because that means fighting them without defences...so better they not get there on the ground in the first place so the ecosystem never appears and chaos can't do the rituals.

I mean it is best to have both of course.
The problem I have with orbital defenses is that they are pretty all-or-nothing. Either they can stop an invasion in space, or they die quickly. Meanwhile, surface defenses give you more options when the enemy makes landfall, and make more sense given the nature of this universe conspires to encourage ground campaigns.
 
The problem I have with orbital defenses is that they are pretty all-or-nothing. Either they can stop an invasion in space, or they die quickly. Meanwhile, surface defenses give you more options when the enemy makes landfall, and make more sense given the nature of this universe conspires to encourage ground campaigns.
True, but what can we do.

What kind of gear do the Imperial Trust space marines have and how does it differ from canon space marines?
Standard equipment for a Tactical Marine is a master crafted Neutron Rifle, an Astartes suit of Elite Power armour (it has integrated ion shields, can mount two modules typically jetpack and stealth for a normal marine, command for a sergeant, unlike normal Elite power armour it has infinite charge. It has a durability only slightly below an Imperial terminator suit while providing a much larger strength boost and an agility boost compared to normal marine armour), melee weapons are an integrated plasma foil (superior to a power sword while also being smaller and lighter) and a power knife. All marines upon graduating also get a custom crafted relic from Svartalfheim.

Special weapons are all combi weapons for example, a Neutron/plasma gun.

Similar for the rest though there are new formations too using the Destroyer and Recon power armours.

Elites use the special terminator armour we made, which basically requires anti titan weapons to harm while providing something like a x3 modifier to damage +a lot to health, stealth and manoeuvrability.

A fresh marine can fight on par with a canon veteran with our tech.
 
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[X] Plan build up defenses
-[X] vote for the second proposal to increase the Inquisition funding to 1.5 of the trusts economy
-[X] vote for the second proposal increase the size of defenses and of the core worlds and as well the colonies.
-[X] propose contacting the eldar to inform them of the dangers Ridcully has divined as well as ask for webway access to contact other Human Polities. Also ask about other forms of ftl that the eldar would be willing to trade for and if they have any human tech stashes they be willing to trade for. These will be to just find out what they want and any decisions will be decided upon the council.
@Doomed Wombat his speech as followed
Eldar Proposal

In order to maintain our advantages and grow stronger in the face of overwhelming odds as fast as possible we propose that we contact other known surviving polities by means of the Eldar Webway and exchange technology with them.

Our current understanding of the situation is that there are three major polities

1. Vulkan's Imperium Quartius the strongest, with a Primarch at its head that is going to rise to a preeminent position of power in the galaxy. A wealth of ancient knowledge and power
2. The Imperium Tertius or Ultramar. On the front line of the Destroyer's return with thousands of chapters calling it home.
3. The Forge Realm of Callamus: Made of hundreds of Forge Worlds this realm has survived to become one of the largest in Segmentum Tempestus and has doubtless reclaimed a vast array of ancient technology.

All three of these realms benefit from our assistance, Vulkan can appear properly and claim more territory, Ultramar needs it if it is to survive the wrath of the C'tan and according to our divinations Callamus is stretched to its limits on all fronts. We also benefit securing additional technology and techniques.

The obvious problem with this is that our technology will be stolen quicker, but given our divination of Asdrubal Vect Chaos is about to gain possess of weapons surpassing even ours in deadlines. These polities will need more advantages as will we.

While the Eldar will require payment, Ridcully's divinations suggest that this is because they are desperate for any assistance they can acquire, thus if by paying we not only strengthen ourselves, strengthen our fellow survivors and stop threats to the galaxy as a whole I consider that a bargain.

In addition, if amenable, Ridcully has determined that the Eldar also have technology of the Dark Age that they use to strengthen polities that require it, which they would likely give to us if we ask.

Finally the Eldar may have a key to addressing one of our most pressing issues travel. Humanity in the Dark Age of Technology advanced far, it is possible the Eldar remember whether some of them, any of them found an alternative mode of travel rather than the warp. Even if not, we should still ask if there are any alternative methods long dead xenos used in ages past. Surely the Emperor's webway project shows that he was willing to use Xeno's craft to deny chaos the opportunity to corrupt human souls and any chance to deny them is one we should take.
- [X] Propose closer ties with dragon's nest, as well as helping to upgrade their infrastructure and any technical assistance they need. Material and Finacial assistance will be discussed with the Blood Dragon's to see what the Trust can spare. With talks hopefully going into the possible integration of the Blood dragon's and their protectorates into the Trust.
-[X] propose increasing the rebate of the Hellguard to 50 percent for more of the hellguard to be tithe to the Trusts army.

Ok updating vote let me know if anyone wants to add something non governmental or financial.
 
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Ok updating vote let me know if anyone wants to add something non governmental or financial.
Can you add a thing about the Chosen?

Like propose the chosen system be implemented and coordinated (so sharing tips across worlds that kinda stuff) across all Trust worlds to improve the quality of all elite soldiers. It's meant to be very cheap and effective.
 
@inverted_helix i don't know how detailed I can get but I checked the spreadsheets and Vanaheim has a reserve of 150 million am and 1million 600 thousandth em I don't think they need too much help

Edit read that wrong but they have a lot.
 
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  • The Security Council, the Inquisition, the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Varangian Guard and Muspelheim are supporting this proposal.
So basically, everyone who doesn't have to pay for it?
So hopefully the Krork, Necrons and Tau should be getting boosts
...
hopefully the Necrons should be getting boosts
Its sad that I can't disagree.
the main reason it is so low is that the Inquisition has HIGH STANDARDS when it comes to strength of will, you know xaviers Pure of Mind and Soul trait, that is required for the Inquisition to recruit you
@Durin
1) If the Inquisition had Carte Blanche to recruit any and every pskyer that they wanted, what percentage would that stabilize at?
2) Would it be lower than since they're getting dibs on the Hero units and primaris or about the same as the heros are such minorities, compared to the maximum number of psykers that meet their minimum standards.
I know there's a temptation not to care about the burden we place on other planets, but given Vanaheim is pretty much the only world contributing more than its fair share to the defense of the Trust as a whole, I feel that they deserve such consideration.
What about Midgard? They've committed so much to the expansion of the trust that their economy stagnated (which isn't something any other system did) and despite that they've still generally offered a higher fraction of their army than any other planet.
And what about Byzantium? This turn they offered about 95% of their space marines for long term deployments.
Honestly I could make arguments like these for most of the planets.
Nobody in the trust is freeloading and that makes your statement rather unfair.

I don't disagree with the compromise though.
The fact there is only one vote in favor of the heavy defense plan that would actually be required to upgrade and maintain those defenses is kind of a telling split. And I'm especially concerned about the colonies who don't have a voice here. If the core planets are worried about the impact this will have on their economy will it be sustainable across 27 planets whose sum economic output is roughly equal to Nilfheim's.
 
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@Durin;
1) How many of the Colonies and Core worlds have implement a Chosen style Grenadier System?

IIRC it was Muspelheim, Nilfheim, Avernus and Midgard.
 
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[X] Plan build up defenses
-[X] vote for the second proposal to increase the Inquisition funding to 1.5 of the trusts economy
-[X] vote for the second proposal increase the size of defenses and of the core worlds and as well the colonies.
-[X] propose contacting the eldar to inform them of the dangers Ridcully has divined as well as ask for webway access to contact other Human Polities. Also ask about other forms of ftl that the eldar would be willing to trade for and if they have any human tech stashes they be willing to trade for. These will be to just find out what they want and any decisions will be decided upon the council.
- [X] Propose closer ties with dragon's nest, as well as helping to upgrade their infrastructure and any technical assistance they need. Material and Finacial assistance will be discussed with the Blood Dragon's. With talks about possible integration of the Blood dragon's and their protectorate into the Trust.
-[X] propose implementing the Midgard Chosen systems across the trust elite forces that it can help the most. With elite units sharing teaching methods and organizational knowledge to better help others.
Ok updating vote let me know if anyone wants to add something non governmental or financial.
I thought Midgard was already planning on proposing closer ties to the Blood Dragons, is this not the case?
 
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