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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- England
I'm thinking minor warp creatures are likely a thing. Probably not as set in stone as these particular beasties.
Romka
Master of Stealth
- Location
- In a barrel
You seem to be under the impression that I think getting permission for it is difficult when thats precise opposite of what I've been arguing. Its not hard at all. Getting permission isn't whats difficult here its all the other things we should do first. Something you still have yet to address.
The importance of the webway is not in question, Nor is the fact we we should use it. That you seem to think I just don't care about the webway combined with the above gives me the impression that you haven't actually been thinking about what I've said.
Vulkans Imperium is far enough away that the webway is required in any reasonable time, and one of the suggested payments for it is divining the dark eldar, so 4, 5, and 7 are required at a minimum. The other things aren't required if we want to get there at the earliest possible opportunity, but I think we should do them first.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I know its actually the closet of the three relative to us.
Noctern is close to Segmentum Pacificus edge of Segmentum Ultima, its the closet with Callamus being the furthest away if its still located in Segmentum Tempestus.
Edit...wait no no.
Callamus is closest, then Vulkan then Secundus. Pacifius is the galactic west, Ultima galactic east, as Callamus is in Tempestus then they're slightly closer.
I also know I was the one that suggested divining the DE*, but it was just a suggested payment. We don't know what they want yet so that has to wait until we've contacted them.
5 We need to do before we do anything again, these are not Avernite xenos. The governor of Avernus doesn't have the authority to negotiate with starfaring polities independently its in the constitution. We can probably ask Eldrad in advance so we know what we have to do so the council knows more, but turning up saying "I've independently set up all the things to do a tech trade to Vulkan with Eldar help, just need your stamp of approval" is incredibly rude if nothing else. Sure as hell doesn't set a good precedent.
The others are things that would be nice...I guess. The Well is only really useful to show off, though TBF I've repeatedly stated my desire to negotiate with the Eldar to get the well as close to Rokslide and back ASAP (don't expect it to work, cause conservatives, but eh you can try.) The Mindcatcher also...wiggles hands. It really depends, if the mind produced has no chaos resistance it could make things worse against Dark Mech Scrapcode.
*The idea was an alternate to sending Avernite troops off to fight with the Eldar, but to be honest either works. I'm actually kinda interested in Avernites fighting as proxies for the Eldar, helps build up trust.
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- Location
- western US
- Location
- United states
This is pretty much I strongly suggested we bring up the Eldar deals with the council in the next meeting. Beside the the tech trade and contacting other major human polities including the Primarch run ones having Webway access could be insanely handy, especially in emergencies incase we need to be somewhere or potentially warn the other major human polities of threats.
We are also likely to send an expedition to the Rokslide before the next council meeting so having the A-okay to make deals seems like a must since not only would a normal trip be dangerous as is but also increase the risk of our tech getting nabbed including what we find at the Rokslide while taking it back. Having reduced travel time along with it making it harder for potential hostiles to track us back to Avernus is a must. Bringing up that it would make contacting the Primarchs and a major Forge empire just makes it seem likely to convince the council to okay Eldar dealings due to how useful the deal would be.
- Location
- United states
3. No as in there isn't anything we can do or no to both? Because unless I'm misrembering didn't you mentioned that orders would get better at what they do over time due to accumulating knowledge and improving psyker techniques over years?
Hmm, so we can ask Arathea more than one question per action for per action if it's related think it would be good to ask her:
1) The highest level healing she has seen or knows about.
2) The most powerful healers on Avernus.
Consideirng that it was mentioned that healing or at least treating Lin was actually possible it just either requires divine intervention or potentially a transcendant healer thinking that Avernus is one of the few places we can find either of them. Which would be good since we may find something to heal Guilliman as well.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
While I'd love to get the Eldar to transport us I don't have much hope in that regard. Conservatives and Xenos. Then again who knows, Archmagos Explorators are given a broad remit.
Don't get your hopes up there. He got stabbed with Anathame (well a shard of it)
- Location
- Leeds
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Find Segmentum Pacificus, find Hydrapur, draw a line out of it from it towards the halo stars (stop before the stars of course) and angle it so it stops around about lining up with Excovar. I think we're about there.
- Location
- Berkeley
Given our general reputation for being high-handed, I'd really rather wait until we have actual official sanction before we even start feeling out what the Eldar would charge for the webway access for the trade deal. I mean, if the High Council had discussed a galactic scale tech transfer as a good (if impractical) idea at some point us using our own initiative to figure out a way to make it practical is laudable. However, given the effort that our polity has put into preventing the spread of our tech edge and maintaining as low a profile as reasonably possible on a galactic scale even discussing the potential for a plan that would have galaxy-wide effects and could substantially raise awareness of our polity and the technology we have with an outside group could have ramifications.
Remember, Vanaheim at the very least views the Eldar as a semi-hostile faction due to their history with them. I would expect them to be furious if they view this as giving away information on some of our inner workings and secrets (aka that we have massive amounts of tech and at least a planetary faction interested in affecting galactic-scale happenings). This is information that the very act of inquiring if they would be willing to facilitate such a transfer and the general cost of doing so would by necessity reveal. Sure, more likely than not they already know that info at some levels, but letting some classified intel slip just because you assume they know some or all of it is still a bad idea.
While having details of the willingness of the Eldar to help out and a general idea of what type and quantity of compensation they would want would help with the planning/idea presentation, I don't see it as being much of a potential sticking point in our internal negotiations. On the flip side, I do see any opposition to the trade deal painting this as another high-handed move by Avernus as being a potential wedge issue. As such, I just don't see the cost/benefit analysis as being favorable, even before factoring in the opportunity cost of tying up a year of Ridcully's very valuable time.
Remember, Vanaheim at the very least views the Eldar as a semi-hostile faction due to their history with them. I would expect them to be furious if they view this as giving away information on some of our inner workings and secrets (aka that we have massive amounts of tech and at least a planetary faction interested in affecting galactic-scale happenings). This is information that the very act of inquiring if they would be willing to facilitate such a transfer and the general cost of doing so would by necessity reveal. Sure, more likely than not they already know that info at some levels, but letting some classified intel slip just because you assume they know some or all of it is still a bad idea.
While having details of the willingness of the Eldar to help out and a general idea of what type and quantity of compensation they would want would help with the planning/idea presentation, I don't see it as being much of a potential sticking point in our internal negotiations. On the flip side, I do see any opposition to the trade deal painting this as another high-handed move by Avernus as being a potential wedge issue. As such, I just don't see the cost/benefit analysis as being favorable, even before factoring in the opportunity cost of tying up a year of Ridcully's very valuable time.
- Location
- Leicester UK
I wanted to ask the council about approaching the eldar to ask about the price of transportation last meeting and I still do now, we only have guesses on how they can be payed for this service and I really doubt something as obvious as divining the dark eldar, which I would be very surprised if they haven't done so already by themselves, will be sufficient. The High Council already know we want to since we bought up a trade with Ultramar at the last full meeting of the High Council so our position on the matter is already out.
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Locer Smoke
- Location
- Australia
@Durin, tech
Locer Smoke
Locer smoke is a special type of smoke used primarily in the form of grenades and ordnance munitions. As part of its creation, locer smoke is alchemically created with charged electronic particles that resonate at a very specific frequency. This frequency is linked to a djinn-skein system that allows users to see the shapes of people and things within the smoke with great clarity. This even works on invisible enemies due to how they physically displace air in their location, but locer smoke is completely ineffective against ethereal enemies since they don't displace air. To those without the proper visual equipment, locer smoke is thick, grey, and difficult to see through.
Locer Smoke
Locer smoke is a special type of smoke used primarily in the form of grenades and ordnance munitions. As part of its creation, locer smoke is alchemically created with charged electronic particles that resonate at a very specific frequency. This frequency is linked to a djinn-skein system that allows users to see the shapes of people and things within the smoke with great clarity. This even works on invisible enemies due to how they physically displace air in their location, but locer smoke is completely ineffective against ethereal enemies since they don't displace air. To those without the proper visual equipment, locer smoke is thick, grey, and difficult to see through.
- Location
- Berkeley
We haven't brought it up. Last meeting was almost entirely about the two-front war, and the one before it preparations for the Orks in general. OOC we mentioned it as an idea, but generally decided to hold off on it until a more opportune time.
Plus, having a known position is fine, unilaterally deciding to negotiate with foreign powers isn't, even if said negotiations are extremely preliminary.
- Location
- Australia
Dynamesmouse
Bzzzzzz
We could ask for permission to barter, or for the High Council to assign us a diplomat, with Ridcully acting as a messenger to Eldrad.
- Location
- Leicester UK
Yes we did, at the last proper council meeting durin said this
to remind us about trading with Ultramar but our write up didn't pass.
- Location
- Berkeley
That is precisely what I said. We had discussed it OOC, but ultimately didn't end up making a proposal (aka discussing it in character).
- Location
- Leicester UK
No, we did ask IC but it didn't pass the council vote.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Probably an idea, somewhat hampered by how large in scale the project is.
We have a vast number of all of the above.
I believe my logic for the DE is that their hideouts are very very well hidden to the point that their normal farseers likely can't safely locate them or probe their defences (doubly so now that the DE are active psykers again). Of course Eldrad can do it, but he's also busy and I doubt they'd ask Ahriman, so Ridcully's the only being with the right mix of skills and special abilities to pull it off (that we know of and isn't a Daemon or Necron). He's pretty much undetectable, can't be blocked by any ward below God level (something the DE thankfully don't have) and isn't affected by distance like other farseers.
Still I believe Durin said they may accept Avernite troops acting as Auxiliaries/Proxies for their fights.
Given that the Raven Guard are can somehow appear from Deliverance all the way near the Veiled Region, across the entire galaxy I'm comfortable guessing the Eldar are familiar with this kind of arrangement (the exodites sure are). Its a good deal too, we get to punch enemies of the galaxy in the face...only downsides are increased notoriety and likely damage to the Helguard.
Pretty sure if it doesn't get the votes it doesn't get mentioned IC, but we'd have to ask.
Either way we should mention it at the next meeting.
- Location
- western US
ooh, I like this idea.
maybe we could set up a order for that? a order of warding or something?
seems kinda important to me actually that we start to build up information on how to passively protect ourselves as soon as possible
and if its already kinda a thing, can we get a option to throw more money at them to increase passive defence?
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
mmm. While it could be construed that way I do have to give my views on how we could argue against them.
First we're proposing getting in contact with not one, but four Primarchs and providing them aid. After Lin they're potentially the closest beings to the Emperor's representatives and effectively allying ourselves with them is far from a bad move, especially since we know they're going to be one of the top powers in the galaxy (and I can believe it too, if they just take the space between Noctern, Chogoris and Deliverance they'd control a large chunk of Segmentum Ultima and Segmentum Tempestus. Add in the fact that he might be able to nab Ryza and Catachan.)
Giving them additional support and ability to stand against the Orks, Abanddon and whatever other gribbles are coming via the Destroyer or the Tyranids breaking through seems like something we can argue is for the survival of the Trust as a whole.
Second this will directly benefit the Trust. The Primarchs are the Primarchs, even a semi equal exchange of technology and psycic information would likely benefit us multifold. Svartheim for instance we could swing by getting a chance to talk to the greatest human smith to ever live. All of them have things that would be useful, from Russ's Cryoguns, Vulkan's Golems, Khan's enhance Grav bikes and Corvus's stealth armour ect. and that's just the stuff I know exists from canon. Hell they potentially know things like the Martian Forge designs (ah the blessings of perfect memories), more ways to increase AM, EM and RM production. Vulkan may even know how to make ARM.
Third I'd argue we have a duty to spread the Banishment and Soul Flame techniques as far and wide as possible. Because **** chaos.
Fourth I'd argue that the risk to the Trust from this deal can be minimised. We're gaining in notoriety to be sure, but we're still fairly unknown and the Webway minimises detection from Chaos and other interested parties. It'll certainly take time for people on the other side of the galaxy to realise that the source of this tech wasn't the Primarchs themselves, but instead a small polity literally on the other side of the galaxy.
Fifth I'd argue that since we're coming to the Trust with this proposal rather than going off on our own, pretty much doing it and then asking for permission we're not driving a wedge at all. We're keeping to our remit and powers granted to us and will respect the will of the council. If our arguments cannot sway them then we loose, if we can then we win there's nothing devise about that, especially on the matter of contacting the Primarchs.
Finally Ridcully...eh loosing a year on any action sucks, but there you go.
We do already have an order of warding its one of the larger ones, and the problem with the idea is the same as any large scale warding we have. That it requires a large amount of power and maintenance.
Currently warding our command centres within the cities is doable, but there are comparatively not too many of them. There are a lot of hospitals, schools and orphanages, likely millions of them all told, and the runes in them would need to be fixed from damage, recharged ect.
Its likely a similar problem to warding one of our cities completely. We could do it, but it would tie up every single one of our psykers into batteries forever.
- Location
- Leicester UK
Yeah, the thread was talking about using the webway for transportation and Durin popped up and mentioned that any troops that were working for the Eldar would get to use the webway, so very strong odds on them accepting troop loans as payment.
I also dont put it past Eldrad to say "errm... yeah I already knew that" selectively on information given to him tbh.