The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
Sub-sector governments could have a voting position, perhaps?
Nah, that would result in even more new voting members than Surt's proposal. To me the Enjous proposal of "Grant the colonies one High Council member now, with the High Council being required to vote on whether to add more later" sounds good, Trust isn't looking to undertake any major expansions any time soon anyway.
 
1. probebly, depending on the rights
1a. also may work, again depends on the rights
1b. ditto

Would extra colonization rights help?

1. I know Vanaheim was planning on making a bid for one particular colony in the Danaan sub-sector, but did they actually get it in light of the Ork Gods awakening? What about Midgard? Or did the Trust just take over management of both of those worlds?
2. Could we perhaps guarantee Vanaheim, Alfheim, and Asgard some additional colony prioritization rights in a future expansion be viable? Perhaps give them two worlds each that they could colonize without being put in the 'wait queue' we set up?
2a. If so, would we need to give any of the other worlds such rights to avoid them having issues?
3. Could a guarantee of allowing the Mechanicus at least one Forge City on each colony world going forward help with their influence concerns?

Sub-sector governments could have a voting position, perhaps?

That would end up adding even more High Council members than what Surt is proposing, which would not assuage anyone's concerns.
 
I don't like the idea of giving them a seat now when they have very little to contrubute. Political power should be paired with martial might and the strength of economics, it's true, but it works both ways. Right now colonies do not deserve a high council seat and shouldn't have any.
 
I don't like the idea of giving them a seat now when they have very little to contrubute. Political power should be paired with martial might and the strength of economics, it's true, but it works both ways. Right now colonies do not deserve a high council seat and shouldn't have any.

You don't think 25 of them together would add up to enough martial might and economics?
 
I don't like the idea of giving them a seat now when they have very little to contrubute. Political power should be paired with martial might and the strength of economics, it's true, but it works both ways. Right now colonies do not deserve a high council seat and shouldn't have any.

I'm thinking the seat would only be gained once they become full members (and thus are able to contribute, due to having been established for a century) - even Surt's proposal would have waited for them to become full members, I believe.
 
And here I was thinking in terms of techno-progressivism and techno-conservatism, not xeno-relations. We might want to be a little more clear on what we mean by progressive and conservative.
Generally conservatism means closer to Imperial norms, progressivism means further away from Imperial norms, probably closer to DAoT ways of thinking.
 
1. I know Vanaheim was planning on making a bid for one particular colony in the Danaan sub-sector, but did they actually get it in light of the Ork Gods awakening? What about Midgard? Or did the Trust just take over management of both of those worlds?
Could we perhaps guarantee Vanaheim, Alfheim, and Asgard some additional colony prioritization rights
Woah, easy there, no need to give other worlds such a drastic advantage just to placate the provinces. Seems counter-productive. Maybe if the only change is a restriction in who can immigrate, and those colonies are otherwise just as independent, then we can consider it. But it might start people down the road of trying to control their "own colonies".
guarantee of allowing the Mechanicus at least one Forge City on each colony world
Possible logistic issue. Give them a guarantee that they can do so eventually sounds fine, but we already plan that, don't we? Not much of an offer in that case.
I'm thinking the seat would only be gained once they become full members
And by full member, you mean what? And still only one seat per 25 "full members", right?
Generally conservatism means closer to Imperial norms, progressivism means further away from Imperial norms, probably closer to DAoT ways of thinking.
Yes, but that can mean any number of things, "norm" is a pretty broad word. People can easily be techno-progressive and xeno-conservative, and that's not getting into all the other ways one can differ from Imperial "norms", or the other directions to differ from those besides DAoT-ward.
Let's stay the hell away from simplifying our politics into the Hegelian dialectics of nothing but two opposed choices. It's great for dividing people, but that's really not what we want right here.
 
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Woah, easy there, no need to give other worlds such a drastic advantage just to placate the provinces. Seems counter-productive. Maybe if the only change is a restriction in who can immigrate, and those colonies are otherwise just as independent, then we can consider it. But it might start people down the road of trying to control their "own colonies".

There's a period in which colonies are partially controlled by their founding system and they have certain rights over them in regards to getting resources from them, but there are limitations on attaining colonies - specifically there's a wait list which you have to get in if you've founded a colony and someone else who hasn't has founded one wants a world that's recently been conquered to colonize. The intent is to ensure everyone who wants a colony can get one, but the conservatives ended up getting pretty screwed due to the need for us to rapidly colonize the Ork Domains with Midgardian colonists. So Midgard, and thus the progressives, could end up getting a lot more influence, and I'm looking to assuage the worlds who are afraid of losing their influence by letting them get a few extra colony worlds without having to be put on the 'wait list' after their first one to allow them some number of extra colonies to make up for it.

Possible logistic issue. Give them a guarantee that they can do so eventually sounds fine, but we already plan that, don't we? Not much of an offer in that case.

The intent is for them to be given the rights to found them on their own time.

And by full member, you mean what? And still only one seat per 25 "full members", right?

Once a colony has met certain conditions and have been established for a century they become full members of the Imperial Trust, independent from their founding colony and completely managing themselves. Currently most of the colonies are under the Trust's direct management, and aren't fully independent, with two colonies possibly being controlled by Vanaheim and Midgard respectively.
 
And this artificially limits how much we can effectively colonise. Christ. I guess that's just how it is.

Just as a note, our next likely expansion will be conquering Valinor. They have 16 worlds, though one is an Angyl World so we couldn't really conquer it most likely, but with 15 worlds there should be a fair number to distribute if needed.
 
Yes, but that can mean any number of things, "norm" is a pretty broad word. People can easily be techno-progressive and xeno-conservative, and that's not getting into all the other ways one can differ from Imperial "norms", or the other directions to differ from those besides DAoT-ward.
Techno progressive has nothing to do with the main stream trust, it's an admech thing mainly.

And yeah it is a broad world and so is Conservative.

Accurately defining what it is on it's own is impossible so we can only list things that are seen as Progressive in the Trust.

Just as a note, our next likely expansion will be conquering Valinor. They have 16 worlds, though one is an Angyl World so we couldn't really conquer it most likely, but with 15 worlds there should be a fair number to distribute if needed.
Ehhh, I'd reduce it by another one or two, as I don't want to have any worlds within 20 light years of Valinor (the Demon world.)

It might be paranoia, but @Durin did confirm that just being in the same system as a Demon world is dangerous and given who and what they are if this plan to... appease... the conservatives goes through then we really don't want em too close to Valinor, hell the only people who can 100% safely colonise those worlds are Niflehiem...

Or Avenernite.
 
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Combined they already have 2nd biggest army in the Trust (after Midgard) and bigger economy than at least 3 (possibly 4) Core Worlds.
Uhm, their combined economy is about two times smaller than Alfheim's (compared by economy strength in kCredits) . They've got a good number of soldiers but while it's second biggest if combined it's not the second strongest and it's mostly garrison forces. Also no navy to speak of.
 
Just as a note, our next likely expansion will be conquering Valinor. They have 16 worlds, though one is an Angyl World so we couldn't really conquer it most likely, but with 15 worlds there should be a fair number to distribute if needed.
Ho boy. That brings up a question. Because orks are one thing, but Valinor is a bunch human heretics.
So what shall it be, guys? Wholesale genocide, or suffer the heretic to live?
It might be paranoia, but @Durin did confirm that just being in the same system as a Demon world is dangerous.
We could also just give them the ork treatment, blast their leadership and infrastructure until they give up trying to rebuild, or just loose the capability to do so, leaving nothing but splintered, starving wastelands.
 
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So what shall it be, guys? Wholesale genocide, or suffer the heretic to live?
Genocide the fuck out of them no mercy for chaos worshipping bastards.

The Emperor (or Lin) said non chaos/non genocidal xenos were ok (and they are), chaos gets no such mercy, they are directly contributing to the end of the universe.

We could also just give them the ork treatment, blast their leadership and infrastructure until their stop trying to rebuild, leaving nothing but splintered, starving wastelands.
Doesn't work I'm afraid, the problem with demon worlds is that

A. They are memetic hazards like all chaos.
B. Demon worlds are in the warp to an extent, rebuilding them is incredibly easy between the infinite man power and resources made of warp stuff.

The other worlds we could take normally, but I'd be hesitant to colonise them as getting rid of the chaos artefacts would be near impossible.

Basically only Niflehiem could do it semi safely.
 
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Ho boy. That brings up a question. Because orks are one thing, but Valinor is a bunch human heretics.
So what shall it be, guys? Wholesale genocide, or suffer the heretic to live?

Genocide. The entire population is hopelessly corrupted beyond saving.

Doesn't work I'm afraid, the problem with demon worlds is that

A. They are memetic hazards like all chaos.
B. Demon worlds are in the warp to an extent, rebuilding them is incredibly easy between the infinite man power and resources made of warp stuff.

Personally I'm tempted to try dumping a bunch of Avernite wildlife on the place and seeing if that helps at all.
 
Personally I'm tempted to try dumping a bunch of Avernite wildlife on the place and seeing if that helps at all.
The Trolls have offered to lend us a hand against chaos, so we could probably use them as auxiliaries when we go for it.

If we can convince a breeding population to migrate that would be funny.

Still I think best case scenario is our Valinor problem is solved by us diverting the super waargh right at it.
 
The worst case scenario is Avernite life getting corrupted without PM's protection.
Shrugs.

Given the evidence of the Orks and Eldar I'd say that they're flat out immune thanks to Old One SUPER SCIENCE *propaganda starts playing*

Ahhem.

Still either the PM is powerful enough to keep the literal living symbol of the Abomination from getting corrupted or they're just immune on a level we don't get yet.
 
Perhaps a better way to divvy up high council votes would be attaching votes to strategic locations, economic power, military power, and or unique resources?

So everyone would get a basic amount of votes for being a planet, then depending on what you offer the Trust you gain additional votes. Since vannanhiem is so important to our navy that's get votes from that, Alfhiem would get votes from being a fuel producer, that sort of thing.

The cool part of this would be that we could vary the amount of votes you get for different resources. So if we really needed a naval boom we could increase the amount of votes naval resources get.
 
Perhaps a better way to divvy up high council votes would be attaching votes to strategic locations, economic power, military power, and or unique resources?

So everyone would get a basic amount of votes for being a planet, then depending on what you offer the Trust you gain additional votes. Since vannanhiem is so important to our navy that's get votes from that, Alfhiem would get votes from being a fuel producer, that sort of thing.

The cool part of this would be that we could vary the amount of votes you get for different resources. So if we really needed a naval boom we could increase the amount of votes naval resources get.

That could get overly complicated, though. I'd prefer to keep the High Council fairly simple in terms of structure and who gets on it.
 
We really should start talking the the Sphinx. They seem to be able to close Chaos portals and that would help us in the short term with the psykers and long term trying to find a way to get rid of a demon world.
 
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