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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Might as well trade it for technomancy, we get something and they get the far better end of the deal.
The conservatives already look like they may be a bit salty about the notion since they're opposing - sometimes it's best to take things in steps.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I have to wonder why they're opposing.
Still I guess it'd be a good idea to just table it, but ask for a vote fairly soon as it's potentially a more immediate issue than Garps.
@Durin
1. Why is are Vanahiem and Aflehiem opposing Surt's proposal? The main reason I can think of it that they're afraid of a lack of centralisation right now.
2. Would a bank proposition be considered out of place at the moment?
Seems more like Scott or the Trust diplomat's job, not ours.
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- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. it seems to be not wanting to lose any influence
2. no
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
This at the very least has to happen, I do not want the Trust to disintegrate because of a banking crisis.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
@Durin
1. Why is the inquisition opposing the high council's seat proposal? If they gave us any indication that is.
2. Would the psykers just casually joss my world tree/treeway hunch as inconsistent with everything they can detect or is it the kind of thing that would require a lot more study to give an indication one way or another?
1. Why is the inquisition opposing the high council's seat proposal? If they gave us any indication that is.
2. Would the psykers just casually joss my world tree/treeway hunch as inconsistent with everything they can detect or is it the kind of thing that would require a lot more study to give an indication one way or another?
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. no indication
2. a lot more study before any indication can be found, and one of those things that can't be disproved, given how near impossible the Webway is to locate from the outside there is no reason hat another creation by the same group could not be equally difficult, or better as the Eldar Webway is a pale shadow of the Old One Webway, which was scarily good
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I'm sorry I'm afraid I've forgotten your world tree hunch?
Temple Cats retain their abilities near the nine worlds (but not, IIRC, near Byzantium).
This suggests some Yggdrassil action is going on.
I'm pretty sure I suggested something similar shortly after we received that particular revelation.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
The temple cat thing, and the exact positioning of the edges of the warp storm, remember Avernus isn't near the center of the Trust but there are still indications it was suppressing or influencing the warp storm throughout the nine worlds, there must have been some kind of carrier of the effect to make that practical, rather than Avernus' influence just being a sphere a certain distance from the planet. Also Norse mythology.
Taken all together I have a hunch that there's a plant of some kind growing between the nine worlds through the warp, probably started growing from Avernus, like the world tree of Norse myth, and that using the world tree for transportation somehow is probably possible. So I've decided I like calling this hypothetical structure the Treeway.
Edit: Also Norse myth says there's a dragon chewing on the root of the world tree in Niflhiem, considering that they're blanks that has concerning implications of the Void Dragon kind.
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One thing to remember is that the Imperium had a singe, centralized authority. Segmentums, sectors, even planets had their own governors with a substantial degree of autonomy but ultimately everything answered to Terra.
Part of the reason the Trust has a ruling council is because none of the members could claim, or enforce, authority over the others. However the Trust is not a federation, or a republic. It is an Imperium and there is a strong perception that it should have a central authority much like its predecessor. The conservatives have likely come to see themselves as the new High Lords of Terra. We are the planets the Emperor charged with carrying the light of humanity until his return after all.
Thus any suggestion that we let more planets have a say in ruling is something they will oppose.
Plus… there is the point that the more you dilute authority, the more people you add to the council, the harder it is to achieve a majority and the harder it is for the group as a whole to act. At present our one vote and a couple more bought with reputation can swing most decisions. Imagine having to secure a dozen votes just to break a deadlock?
Part of the reason the Trust has a ruling council is because none of the members could claim, or enforce, authority over the others. However the Trust is not a federation, or a republic. It is an Imperium and there is a strong perception that it should have a central authority much like its predecessor. The conservatives have likely come to see themselves as the new High Lords of Terra. We are the planets the Emperor charged with carrying the light of humanity until his return after all.
Thus any suggestion that we let more planets have a say in ruling is something they will oppose.
Plus… there is the point that the more you dilute authority, the more people you add to the council, the harder it is to achieve a majority and the harder it is for the group as a whole to act. At present our one vote and a couple more bought with reputation can swing most decisions. Imagine having to secure a dozen votes just to break a deadlock?
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Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
[X] Plan: On with the show
[X] Vote for Sigurd's proposal
[X] Vote for Surt's proposal
[X] Bring up the problem of the Imperial Bank, specifically Article VIII subsection 2, which stipulates that the Nine Worlds must have 70% of the shares of the Trust's bank and that no other organisation can have more than 3% of the remainder noting the potential economic and equality issues this could present. Ask that a vote be held on this within the next 50 years at a minimum similar to Garp.
@Durin
Is the bank tableing idea ok?
We are going to have to start thinking about changing the system soon though, both for Durin's sanity, our own and the long term viability of the Trust.
[X] Vote for Sigurd's proposal
[X] Vote for Surt's proposal
[X] Bring up the problem of the Imperial Bank, specifically Article VIII subsection 2, which stipulates that the Nine Worlds must have 70% of the shares of the Trust's bank and that no other organisation can have more than 3% of the remainder noting the potential economic and equality issues this could present. Ask that a vote be held on this within the next 50 years at a minimum similar to Garp.
@Durin
Is the bank tableing idea ok?
Yeah we are going to have to change things, but my problem with their logic is that the expansion of the high council is going to happen anyway, only instead of it being phased in to an extent it'll instead happen all at once.
We are going to have to start thinking about changing the system soon though, both for Durin's sanity, our own and the long term viability of the Trust.
I see they haven't been reading their book properly
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
Yeah but that's the point where you begin pushing for a body with more central authority, probably growing out of the military or administratum. All the planets have enough power to feel like they can influence things and have buy in into the political process but have to acknowledge the importance and primacy of non-planetary authority at some point, eventually making them more like states in the US or provinces in some modern confederacies than separate polities connected by common cause or a common conqueror.
Edit: Also @Durin, we specifically have firsthand experience in the kind of supposedly very effective combinations of Naval tactics, army stratagems and creative landings that the splitting of the Imperial army into the Guard and Navy supposedly prevented outside of Space marines in the reorganization following the Horus Heresy.
We also have a Navy that is supposed to specialize in planetary assault.
1. Could we somehow set things up to allow these tactics without our direct involvement?
1.a. Possibly through greater coordination of the Avernite Army and Navy?
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We never do plan votes for these particular sections - it is always voting by line on proposals.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Fine
[X] Vote for Sigurd's proposal
[X] Vote for Surt's proposal
[X] Bring up the problem of the Imperial Bank, specifically Article VIII subsection 2, which stipulates that the Nine Worlds must have 70% of the shares of the Trust's bank and that no other organisation can have more than 3% of the remainder noting the potential economic and equality issues this could present. Ask that a vote be held on this within the next 50 years at a minimum similar to Garp.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
[X] Vote for Sigurd's proposal
[X] Vote for Surt's proposal
Edit: withdrew the third part of my vote, not entirely sure the banking needs to be brought up yet.
[X] Vote for Surt's proposal
Edit: withdrew the third part of my vote, not entirely sure the banking needs to be brought up yet.
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- Location
- Leicester UK
[X] Vote for Sigurd's proposal
[X] Vote for Surt's proposal
[X] Bring up the problem of the Imperial Bank, specifically Article VIII subsection 2, which stipulates that the Nine Worlds must have 70% of the shares of the Trust's bank and that no other organisation can have more than 3% of the remainder noting the potential economic and equality issues this could present. Ask that a vote be held on this within the next 50 years at a minimum similar to Garp.
[X] Bring up the problem of the Imperial Bank, specifically Article VIII subsection 2, which stipulates that the Nine Worlds must have 70% of the shares of the Trust's bank and that no other organisation can have more than 3% of the remainder noting the potential economic and equality issues this could present. Ask that a vote be held on this within the next 50 years at a minimum similar to Garp.
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- Location
- The Bayou, Everglades
If the new colonies get a vote, it becomes all the more important that we start getting those spy networks running out there. If not to infiltrate their governments, then only to prevent other core worlds from doing the same.
CyberNinja
Lost in blizzard, presumed eaten by Canadians
- Location
- Maine
Eh we have a good chance of giving Midgard obscene amounts of control with this, the colonies are their citizens after all, they'll be similar in thought due to culture if nothing else.
You know I'm surprised that no one has ever thought of just abstaining from a vote to let other parties come to us to try to swing the vote rather than just jump on whichever train seems like a f*ck you to the conservatives? No one's ever considered what sorts of boons we could get with being owed favors? After all then we wouldn't have to burn so much opinion when we try to swing unpopular votes. Ah whatever, be the good little doggy and bark twice for yes.
- Location
- Asia
[X] Vote for Sigurd's proposal
[X] Vote against Surt's proposal
-[X] Convince Svartalfheim to vote against this proposal
[X] Bring up the problem of the Imperial Bank, specifically Article VIII subsection 2, which stipulates that the Nine Worldsmust have 70% of the shares of the Trust's bank and that no other organisation can have more than 3% of the remainder noting the potential economic and equality issues this could present. Ask that a vote be held on this within the next 50 years at a minimum similar to Garp.
I don't think we should be diluting the High Council with more members, at least not in this form.
If the Council growls large and unwieldy them the whole Trust will stagnate. Remember that the more members the Council has, the more influence we'd have to spend to get things done.
With a large council, the days of Avernus playing the maverick would be over.
We need to have hard cap on the number of High Council members before admitting new members.
[X] Vote against Surt's proposal
-[X] Convince Svartalfheim to vote against this proposal
[X] Bring up the problem of the Imperial Bank, specifically Article VIII subsection 2, which stipulates that the Nine Worldsmust have 70% of the shares of the Trust's bank and that no other organisation can have more than 3% of the remainder noting the potential economic and equality issues this could present. Ask that a vote be held on this within the next 50 years at a minimum similar to Garp.
I don't think we should be diluting the High Council with more members, at least not in this form.
If the Council growls large and unwieldy them the whole Trust will stagnate. Remember that the more members the Council has, the more influence we'd have to spend to get things done.
With a large council, the days of Avernus playing the maverick would be over.
We need to have hard cap on the number of High Council members before admitting new members.
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- Location
- Brazil
So, is no one worried at all in how Surt's proposal will quickly dilute the Nine World's power?
Putting the right to lord over us in the hands of some random, likely corrupted colonies in the ass end of nowhere doesn't sit right with me.
Why can't things stay as they are? Or rather, give the Low Council as a whole a single seat on the High Council.
More people will mean shit will never get done, much like in the Imperium.
Putting the right to lord over us in the hands of some random, likely corrupted colonies in the ass end of nowhere doesn't sit right with me.
Why can't things stay as they are? Or rather, give the Low Council as a whole a single seat on the High Council.
More people will mean shit will never get done, much like in the Imperium.
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[X] Vote for Sigurd's proposal
[X] Vote for Surt's proposal
[X] Bring up the problem of the Imperial Bank, specifically Article VIII subsection 2, which stipulates that the Nine Worlds must have 70% of the shares of the Trust's bank and that no other organisation can have more than 3% of the remainder noting the potential economic and equality issues this could present. Ask that a vote be held on this within the next 50 years at a minimum similar to Garp.
[X] Bring the options of what to do with the new Advanced Terminator Armor before the High Council. Wheter it should be traded or given as a gift to Dragons Nest.
[X] Vote for Surt's proposal
[X] Bring up the problem of the Imperial Bank, specifically Article VIII subsection 2, which stipulates that the Nine Worlds must have 70% of the shares of the Trust's bank and that no other organisation can have more than 3% of the remainder noting the potential economic and equality issues this could present. Ask that a vote be held on this within the next 50 years at a minimum similar to Garp.
[X] Bring the options of what to do with the new Advanced Terminator Armor before the High Council. Wheter it should be traded or given as a gift to Dragons Nest.