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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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ArchAIngel said:
I think "It's full of fucking Orks" is a non-trivial reason.
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And the wildlife and slaves are innocent.

You are overlooking one important weakness, of the orks, they are far away, so they have to rely more on the fleet, than land units to fight.

The knowledge the sirens have is not worth, changing Avernus way for the worst, they may be cultists, but they are still your people.
 
Azgrin said:
Unfortunately that is not the galaxy we are living in. Cultists are barely human scum only fit for execution, the Quartok are an anomaly, I don't see guys that nice, human or not, still being alive.

Also remember the places we are exterminatusing are Ork worlds, any life on them has likely given way to the Orkoid eco system. In addition, survival and growth of the Trust > cute animals.
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That sort of thinking is why chaos wins, or evil is victorious, just by humanity sinking that low on the morality spectrum is a victory for evil.
 
Saotome Nakazawa said:
And the wildlife and slaves are innocent.

You are overlooking one important weakness, of the orks, they are far away, so they have to rely more on the fleet, than land units to fight.

The knowledge the sirens have is not worth, changing Avernus way for the worst, they may be cultists, but they are still your people.
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Wildlife: Orks ate or supplanted them by now.

Ships: Need Orks to build.

Slaves: ...I'm pretty sure death's the better option. Like shooting Dark Eldar slave-soldiers. Orks are not nice.

Knowledge: Cultists are willingly refusing all of society. Thus, society's privileges like "Not being eaten by horrible monsters all the time" no longer apply.
Saotome Nakazawa said:
That sort of thinking is why chaos wins, or evil is victorious, just by humanity sinking that low on the morality spectrum is a victory for evil.
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...It's a morally bad thing to blow up Orks.

Wot.
 
Saotome Nakazawa said:
That sort of thinking is why chaos wins, or evil is victorious, just by humanity sinking that low on the morality spectrum is a victory for evil.
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No, it is why we will survive until the big E comes back.
Saotome Nakazawa said:
The knowledge the sirens have is not worth, changing Avernus way for the worst, they may be cultists, but they are still your people.
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It honestly totally is. Remember that Daemon incursion that killed a third of all Avernites? Well the sirens and their rune warded cities didn't even come under attack.
 
ArchAIngel said:
Wildlife: Orks ate or supplanted them by now.

Ships: Need Orks to build.

Slaves: ...I'm pretty sure death's the better option. Like shooting Dark Eldar slave-soldiers. Orks are not nice.

Knowledge: Cultists are willingly refusing all of society. Thus, society's privileges like "Not being eaten by horrible monsters all the time" no longer apply.

...It's a morally bad thing to blow up Orks.

Wot.
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Its morally bad to destroy planets with innocent lives on them, especially when its donw not out of desperation but convenience, it will paint a target on humanity's back for destroying planets , when its not needed, other alien species will be triggered by how violent humanity is destroying planets just to gain a war advantage.

Avernus is a symbol of the new imperium, the imperial trust symbolizes something better a return to how humanity should have been.

And now you want to feed cultists for a powerup, It is not worth it,morally and for spiritual reasons, it is inhumane to treat others as tools to get a advantage especially when its a fate worse than death, especially when cultists used to be normal people with lives, Its like taking several hundred steps back for the imperial trust as a whole. The knowledge gain is not enough to compromise the trust's humanity and morals.
 
Azgrin said:
No, it is why we will survive until the big E comes back.

It honestly totally is. Remember that Daemon incursion that killed a third of all Avernites? Well the sirens and their rune warded cities didn't even come under attack.
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Or the sirens live underwater, making it harder to invade, these cultists were brothers friends and neighbors and your sentencing them to a fate worse than death, oblivion, and feeding cultists will symbolically change Avernus forever and not for the better, it will not make the trust better than the corrupt imperium.
 
Saotome Nakazawa said:
Its morally bad to destroy planets with innocent lives on them, especially when its donw not out of desperation but convenience, it will paint a target on humanity's back for destroying planets , when its not needed, other alien species will be triggered by how violent humanity is destroying planets just to gain a war advantage.

Avernus is a symbol of the new imperium, the imperial trust symbolizes something better a return to how humanity should have been.

And now you want to feed cultists for a powerup, It is not worth it,morally and for spiritual reasons, it is inhumane to treat others as tools to get a advantage especially when its a fate worse than death, especially when cultists used to be normal people with lives, Its like taking several hundred steps back for the imperial trust as a whole. The knowledge gain is not enough to compromise the trust's humanity and morals.
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...If a species is stupidly morally righteous enough to try and call us out for blowing up a planet of Orks with some slaves that have a 99% chance of dying in the fighting, I'm quite happy to ignore them, on the grounds of them being bloody stupid at cost-benefit. Morals are no good to the dead. Seriously, not even the Tau, the idiot friendly group of the galaxy, would complain about that.

Oh, we're much better. We're killing a lot less people than the Imperium would, as we're using our rare weapons to burn away the foe instead of burying them in the corpses of our own people.

Treating other people as tools is called social interaction. And as the knowledge is quite anti-Daemon... Yeah. The Pink Skies still linger.

Also, stop double posting, it's not good.
 
ArchAIngel said:
...If a species is stupidly morally righteous enough to try and call us out for blowing up a planet of Orks with some slaves that have a 99% chance of dying in the fighting, I'm quite happy to ignore them, on the grounds of them being bloody stupid at cost-benefit. Morals are no good to the dead. Seriously, not even the Tau, the idiot friendly group of the galaxy, would complain about that.

Oh, we're much better. We're killing a lot less people than the Imperium would, as we're using our rare weapons to burn away the foe instead of burying them in the corpses of our own people.

Treating other people as tools is called social interaction. And as the knowledge is quite anti-Daemon... Yeah. The Pink Skies still linger.

Also, stop double posting, it's not good.
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So if your family happens to be in a cultist group, or turn to chaos out of desperation, to save your life or something else, you would be ok with their souls being devoured by a alien for knowledge, you could attain later. Your mother, father friends and people you know your whole life.
 
Saotome Nakazawa said:
So if your family happens to be in a cultist group, or turn to chaos out of desperation, to save your life or something else, you would be ok with their souls being devoured by a alien for knowledge, you could attain later. Your mother, father friends and people you know your whole life.
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"Fuck Chaos" is like one of our big cultural Things now. Pink Skies, remember?

The issue was how it looked to others, selling it to our own people wasn't the issue.
 
Saotome Nakazawa said:
Its morally bad to destroy planets with innocent lives on them, especially when its donw not out of desperation but convenience, it will paint a target on humanity's back for destroying planets , when its not needed, other alien species will be triggered by how violent humanity is destroying planets just to gain a war advantage.

Avernus is a symbol of the new imperium, the imperial trust symbolizes something better a return to how humanity should have been.

And now you want to feed cultists for a powerup, It is not worth it,morally and for spiritual reasons, it is inhumane to treat others as tools to get a advantage especially when its a fate worse than death, especially when cultists used to be normal people with lives, Its like taking several hundred steps back for the imperial trust as a whole. The knowledge gain is not enough to compromise the trust's humanity and morals.
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You have no clue what the Orks are, do you? They are not people, no one who knows about them will complain about them being gone, they will be worried about us having the capability sure but killing Orks is one of the few things everyone in the galaxy can agree on. Hell just look at the Quartok our diplomacy with them began because we were both killing Orks. Fuck Orks, fuck Tyranids and fuck Chaos; that is more or less the entire basis of our relationship with any xenos we can possibly have one.

Also you do realize that being fed to the Sirens is a far, far better end than going to the Chaos Gods, right? Certainly given the option I wouldn't even hesitate to choose the Sirens, if anyone I cared about fell to Chaos I would try to get them eaten by the Sirens as that is basically the best end they can hope for at that point. We are ultimately being extremely merciful to people the Imperial Trust does not believe have any rights and I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the reason the ones who voted against did so.
 
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strauss said:
You have no clue what the Orks are, do you? They are not people, no one who knows about them will complain about them being gone, they will be worried about us having the capability sure but killing Orks is one of the few things everyone in the galaxy can agree on. Hell just look at the Quartok, our diplomacy with them began because we were both killing Orks.

Also you do realize that being fed to the Sirens is a far, far better end than going to the Chaos Gods, right? Certainly given the option I wouldn't even hesitate to choose the Sirens, if anyone I cared about fell to Chaos I would try to get them eaten by the Sirens as that is basically the best end they can hope for at that point. We are ultimately being extremely merciful to people the Imperial Trust does not believe have any rights and I wouldn't be surprised if that was part of the reason the ones who voted against did so.
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Even Orks agree on killing Orks!

That's how they get bigger a lot of the time.
 
Its still impractical, to destroy planets that can be claimed later , especially since the orks will rely more on fleet strength than land armies to fight,

Stranding them on their planets should deal with them.

As for chaos claiming souls of cultists, why not just imprisoned them or cleanse their souls. They are harmless without magic or weapons right? They need tools to summon daemons or weapons to fight correct?

Its a matter of perspective a afterlife is better than no afterlife, which is what oblivion means.
 
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Saotome Nakazawa said:
Its still impractical, to destroy planets that can be claimed later , especially since the orks will rely more on fleet strength than land armies to fight,

Stranding them on their planets should deal with them.

As for chaos claiming souls of cultists, why not just imprisoned them or cleanse their souls. They are harmless without magic or weapons right? They need tools to summon daemons or weapons to fight correct?
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They're too far away to claim. And we've got a LOT of spare territory in the meantime.

As for the souls, cleansing doesn't happen in this setting. And they're not harmless, they're an Avernite civilian. And Daemons can be summoned just by any Pysker to possess them and turn into a Daemonhost, though power of Daemon does vary. With how many Minor Psykers we have...

Basically cultists are really fucking dangerous and actively corruptive. Rituals just help a lot. Like, a catapult will throw a rock that cracks open your head, but that doesn't mean an arm can't throw a rock and break your brains out anyways.
 
Saotome Nakazawa said:
So if your family happens to be in a cultist group, or turn to chaos out of desperation, to save your life or something else, you would be ok with their souls being devoured by a alien for knowledge, you could attain later. Your mother, father friends and people you know your whole life.
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You're asking us to show sympathy to people who literally worship primal evil. Yeah, no. True Death is a mercy for them.
 
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Oh, and you mentioned their afterlife:

It's hell. Eternal torture at the hands of Daemons.

True Death is being nice.
 
[x] Use Exterminatus on any world that is to tough to take and strategically important due to resources, infrastructure or population, estimated 8-20.
 
[X] Use Exterminatus on any world that is to tough to take and strategically important due to resources, infrastructure or population, estimated 8-20.
 
[X] Use Exterminatus on any world that is to tough to take and strategically important due to resources, infrastructure or population, estimated 8-20.

Because I don't think they're cheap enough to spam, but I want to at least start production and build up a stockpile in case we need to tell a World Engine or Skrap Wurld to fuck off with a full fleet's worth of them.
 
Well when I think about this matter, we kind of vote for bring ragnarok to some ork planets, if the 'fire and ice giants' had all the same opinion would be more liked.
 
BTW, now I think - is warning the Eldar a good idea? They'll probably take that as insult, as it implies that their diviners are inferior to ours. Also, I'm not sure that contacting them at all is a good idea. After all, there is a good chance that they became even more racist and arrogant after birth of Ynnead. And the closest known craftworld is Biel-Tan, they are not known to be nice to humans.
We definitely need to scry on them first.
 
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