The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

[vsh]

1-5 are probably folded under luxuries though I doubt they'd have interest in sports they are fish women

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I think the exact result of trade depends on wording very much. They may very well say "we have better" to generic luxuries options but "hell yes" to awesome sport racing jetbike tailored for fish-women.

5-8 are prohibited no technology

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I imagine this prohibition to be lifted more easily than feeding humans to them.

9-10 are unlikely can you imagine us even now wanting to visit and they don't allow visitors and even then what do they get

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I think there could be some who would want to go on safari on plains or in mountains.

11 we don't have any of or we would probably know

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I bet Muspelheim has records of where to get a stash. Or we may ask Inquisition. Or search through orkish space hulks.

12 they can probably do better

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Worth checking. They don't have all materials available, though.

13 are non psychic

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I didn't know that's an issue. Still worth checking.

14-15 they have no interest in they don't want to leave and barely consider the trolls sentient

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Maybe they think they can get better deal out of someone else in Trust?

 

[atrophy]

Find the debate one sirens issue abit grating but im not against it .
Maybe wait to see how the banish rune works is my opinion but im not categorically against feeding them chaos cultists? We shouldnt warn chaos but sirens trade might be actually worth pushing through instead .its abit of a fringe issue that has way to much attention on it.

and people might be overselling what we get in trade abit for cultists aswell since it would be a real luxury good considering our cultists lack of numbers unless u import some number offworld wich is another can of worms to open.

Deffo medium or fast for the ork domain conquests . Maybe medium so that we can murderize the smaller ork worlds in abit econimical fashion and/or do that to indvidual chaos worlds aswell? Medium seems abit better cause it seems minimilize problems abit is my guess and it should be done before the start of the ork event anyway.

find it abit sad that we probably cant expand internally before the ork event hits into new regions .

Also since were expanding quite abit we should check out the imperial remnant worlds for absorption aswell , there should be some near the ork realms were conquering?

and would like to know what we get from dragons nest . And we should offer them felblades or land raiders if they want them and can maintain them aswell for extra incentives aswell . They are actually on the smaller legion size so offering to fill that hole pretty easily for us(Probably one action) is very doable if they are interested while boosting their combat power alot for the marines. Another thing to export to them could be knight titans guys if they have knight worlds and dont have internal stcs to build them? since apparently we can build tons of them.

Um idk about valinor but maybe warning them since abomination isnt allied to the other chaos gods could be a thing to do , maybe if it stops any of their interupts of our expansion especially could be the idea?

We did plan to conquer valinor after the ork realms were done i think before the ork event so idk how viable that thought is either way.

 

[vsh]

Not to mention that if we allowed Sirens off world and even one managed to eat someone's soul (especially an uncorrupted one) we may well be excommunicated, kicked out of the Trust, or at least lose our govenorship.

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True, but there are safe option. I think they could like to see the orbital view of Avernus with their own eyes, for example, and we can make that safe enough.
In short, all those options can be implemented in a safe way, except maybe eldar-tech one, and are probably easier to pull off diplomatically than feeding human souls to xenos (except maybe eldar-tech again and a couple of others).

 

[Enjou]

Our allies find it abhorrent, and the diplomacy malus does hurt.

If no other -Diplomacy actions are taken I suppose I could go for it.

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The only other -Diplomacy action on the board is notifying Chaos, and if we vote for the Siren trade then we wouldn't have the political capital to make that happen (we'd end up spending 27 points to make notifying Chaos happen, with unknown effects on our relationship with Fabricator-General Scott). We only have enough political capital for one or the other, and I'm going with the Siren trade since that has more certain long term benefits and the Chaos polities have some chance of finding out about this anyways.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I think the exact result of trade depends on wording very much. They may very well say "we have better" to generic luxuries options but "hell yes" to awesome sport racing jetbike tailored for fish-women

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Mate they can swim a grav bike which is much more advanced and really expensive is probably not going to cut it.

I imagine this prohibition to be lifted more easily than feeding humans to them.

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the conservatives shit bricks about upgrading a reactor and you want to give holy technology to xenos? Other govs maybe the same, but the mech would go straight to civil war.

I think there could be some who would want to go on safari on plains or in mountains.

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A few siren princesses not enough to get us a new rune.

I bet Muspelheim has records of where to get a stash. Or we may ask Inquisition. Or search through orkish space hulks.

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Mus has human history the inquisition if they kept it is not going to give it to us as they don't keep non useful trinkets and we searched the hulks bugger all

Worth checking. They don't have all materials available, though.

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and we don't have enough time to get them.

didn't know that's an issue. Still worth checking.

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yes it is psychic implies a strong soul which is useful for the, to eat sentient also means tha

Trust?

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that's your logic? We know what the response would be save from Mes and nif which is pointless and we are the only ones with authority to negotiate with them.
Sorry for spaghetti will be back on my computer in a sec

 

[MonkeyTypewriter]

I am incredibly strongly against siren trades as usual. Lets talk to the sphinx before we blow an absurd amount of diplomatic capitol on the Siren trade. Its dumb as hell.

 

[vsh]

snip

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Now you're shooting down propositions with nothing to back it up. Why do you think that a few siren princesses not enough to get us a new rune? That may be true, but there is no evidence for that. Just a few animals did buy us a rune. Sirens can swim faster than jetbike, but can they fly or travel on dry land at those speed (IIRC Queens can, but not just sirens)? They may like to try that for a change.

Most of this options are long shots, but we barely understand what they want except the obvious, and I don't think they are one-dimensional to only crave souls. We should try a shotgun approach to figure out what is of value to them, especially if we can offer them a long list in one action.

 

[Enjou]

I am incredibly strongly against siren trades as usual. Lets talk to the sphinx before we blow an absurd amount of diplomatic capitol on the Siren trade. Its dumb as hell.

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There's no evidence to suggest the Sphinx have any runic knowledge, or any kind of wide swath of knowledge that we could gain from them. Their abilities seem innate, which means there will be limits to what we can get from studying them.

And again, the entire reason we build diplomatic capital is so that we can spend it when we need to. This is a major expenditure, but the knowledge we'll gain will no doubt be quite useful for the rest of the quest, and the expenditure doesn't even put our relations at particularly dangerous levels. Further, I still say that we're not likely to get a better opportunity - the emergency is giving people reason to vote in favor of it when they otherwise might not, which means the amount of political capital we will spend on this is less than it would be otherwise.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Now you're shooting down propositions with nothing to back it up. Why do you think that a few siren princesses not enough to get us a new rune? That may be true, but there is no evidence for that. Just a few animals did buy us a rune. Sirens can swim faster than jetbike, but can they fly or travel on dry land at those speed (IIRC Queens can, but not just sirens)? They may like to try that for a change.

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All Sirens can travel on land as shown when we fought the Siren queen, Siren Princesses like the one we have bounded to a psyker via familiar cannot do it when ordered by their main queen and unless we impress Azshara enough with a mountain view then no rune, animals I have plenty of evidence for they asked for the biggest and most exotic possible, the phase tigers and the Tyrant lizards both powerfully psycic and extremely intelligent by animal standards they are not some dumb (as in unintelligent) non psycic animals from Vanaheim, if they wish to try that for a change sure, but I find it unlikely seeing as they were unwilling to even consider going into space, and with how high tech jet bikes and the like are the admech would revolt in a nano second with Scott's young trait.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Gotta say, I find Prime Paladis' counterarguments fairly convincing, actually.

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It is, doesn't mean I have to like it.

I gripe about the conservatives, but to an extent their arguments are logical. Not good for the times in which we now live, but logical under certain circumstances

Our allies find it abhorrent, and the diplomacy malus does hurt.

If no other -Diplomacy actions are taken I suppose I could go for it.

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Well we do now do

Expand Embassies- Inquisitor Klovis-Ultan has put forward a proposal to greatly increase the size of Avernus' Embassies and relocate a major portion of the diplomatic staff to them. While this would limit the amount of diplomatic missions that he could run it would allw your ambassadors to constantly work on improving the relationship between Avernus and the planet that they are stationed on.

Time: 5 years.

Cost: 400,000,000 Thrones, 40,000,000 Material, 10,000,000 Metal, 4,000,000 Promethium, 8,300 Advanced Material.
Upkeep per year: 40,000,000 Thrones, 4,000,000 Material, 1,000,000 Metal, 400,000 Promethium, 415 Advanced Material.
Reward: lose 1 diplomacy action, get a (40-relations*2)% chance per year of increasing every relationship within the Imperial Trust that is under 10, +10 to all diplomatic relations rolls

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10x5 50 diplomacy actions per turn- what ever we miss for those that would still be over 10.

Even if its low we can have Klovis do a turn of support with our +10 to relations rolls.

If it helps as well

Current Views of Avernus, as per end of Turn 92:
Asgard 18/10
Alfheim 8/10
Vanaheim 9/10
Jotunheim 10/10
Midgard 12/10
Svartalfheim 8/10
Niflheim 8/10
Muspelheim 11/10
Byzantium 8/10

Results if we convince Garp (chance that Sigurd will side with opposition):
Asgard 18/10
Alfheim 5/10
Vanaheim 6/10
Jotunheim 6/10
Midgard 9/10
Svartalfheim 5/10
Niflheim 8/10
Muspelheim 11/10
Byzantium (8 or 5)/10 (unknown effect)

Results if we convince Garp and Sigurd (guarantees the issue passes):
Asgard 14/10
Alfheim 4/10
Vanaheim 5/10
Jotunheim 6/10
Midgard 8/10
Svartalfheim 4/10
Niflheim 8/10
Muspelheim 11/10
Byzantium (8 or 4)/10 (unknown effect)

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These are the costs to us politically in all three scenarios.

Yeah we have political capital to burn I say we try.

Also one sec I need to write up a begging statement... not like that.

 

[Angelform]

I think people are underestimating just how valuable the Runes are. Just from what we have seen the Siren pull it is the equivalent of the DAoT core we found for our psykers. It could mean making our worlds safe from demonic invasion. It could mean making new Black Ships so we can move un-tested psykers between worlds.
It is effectively an entire branch of technology not controlled by the still mostly conservative AdMech.

Getting all the Sirens' Rune lore is a massive buff for us.

 

[vsh]

Getting all the Sirens' Rune lore is a massive buff for us.

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There's no indication that a few cultists will get us many runes, though.

Still, for people who want those runes and do not object feeding chaos cultists to Sirens now it the good moment to push for it.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I think people are underestimating just how valuable the Runes are. Just from what we have seen the Siren pull it is the equivalent of the DAoT core we found for our psykers. It could mean making our worlds safe from demonic invasion. It could mean making new Black Ships so we can move un-tested psykers between worlds.
It is effectively an entire branch of technology not controlled by the still mostly conservative AdMech.

Getting all the Sirens' Rune lore is a massive buff for us.

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I know, but the costs... I may disagree, but I acknowledge the reasons why.

When @Durin gets back we'll ask some questions like what does Lin think at this stage, does he think the situation desperate enough ect. ect.

There's no indication that a few cultists will get us many runes, though.

Still, for people who want those runes and do not object feeding chaos cultists to Sirens now it the good moment to push for it.

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Shrug, its unclearish

if you want anything more they want human souls

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We get something that's for sure, and I can make a few guesses.

Probably not the entire array of runes, but possibly the basics and mechanics behind them, which given we have Banish we could quickly develop into something effective on a wider scale.

It would also let us figure out the improved psyker shield instantly (we did it ages ago, but couldn't continue cause we lacked the understanding of the runes).

Also as an alternative to trading the entirety of psykers we could trade half?

It was rattling around in the back of my mind for a while, but I remembered

The one exception was that he found out that occasionally when a Siren is interrupted in the middle of devouring someone's soul the soul is badly damaged but the person survives. The survivor loses a lot of his psychic potential, often becoming psychically dense.

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We might be able to use this as a compromise take a bite and then when they are dense stop them? Might work.

Also @Enjou found what happens to the soul
The second major discovery is that the Sirens seem to consume and digest souls, totally removing all traces of what the soul used to be.
Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 831
Biologis section

 

[vsh]

We might be able to use this as a compromise?

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Good idea, let's try that too. I'm a lot less opposed to this.

 

[Enjou]

There's no indication that a few cultists will get us many runes, though.

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I believe it'll be the case that we give them cultists on a continuous basis, and they give us runes over time as we give them cultists over time. The trade for animals was a one time deal, where we'll catch a certain amount of animals in exchange for the Banish rune, but it would probably be a long while before we could buy another rune in that fashion.

Also @Enjou found what happens to the soul
The second major discovery is that the Sirens seem to consume and digest souls, totally removing all traces of what the soul used to be.
Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 831
Biologis section

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I was already referencing that. It doesn't say whether the soul ends up destroyed or not. "Digested" could just means it changes form. Likely ends up destroyed, but that's fine since these souls are corrupted by Chaos.

 

[MonkeyTypewriter]

Keep in mind that we're about to have a MASSIVE amount of territory to divvy up. Do you want to blow all of our political capital now? On Siren trades? Because if we have terrible relations when we divide it up the Conservatives will get the bulk of it with terrible long term consiquences.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Ok from the current direction of the thread the Sirens are going to overshadow bloody everything, which is kinda disappointing to me. Still this is a plea from me to you and to everyone especially the plan makers like @Enjou, even if you were already going to do this.

Please put the siren vote and the main plan separate so when they are in discussion we don't constantly get dragged back to the issue of the Sirens over and over and over again.

We NEED to discuss the other things cause they are BLOODY important, the sirens are important obviously, but the other things determine our capabilities against entire worlds and the speed and direction of our massive campaign and warning actions (which lets be honest seems to be fuck chaos... can I get an aye men on that?)

So please, make your plans so we can discuss them, but keep the Siren's separate so we do so without them coming up and diverting conversation.

Lets not make this vote only about them.

Good idea, let's try that too. I'm a lot less opposed to this.

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We'll have to ask @Durin a bunch of questions about it, but if it works sure.

I believe it'll be the case that we give them cultists on a continuous basis, and they give us runes over time as we give them cultists over time. The trade for animals was a one time deal, where we'll catch a certain amount of animals in exchange for the Banish rune, but it would probably be a long while before we could buy another rune in that fashion.

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Still when @Durin gets back lets ask him about the partial feeding... might not be as effective, but its probably more palatable to well everyone.

I was already referencing that. It doesn't say whether the soul ends up destroyed or not. "Digested" could just means it changes form. Likely ends up destroyed, but that's fine since these souls are corrupted by Chaos.

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Sorry on my phone for a long time so I couldn't look it up easily or quote it.

Keep in mind that we're about to have a MASSIVE amount of territory to divvy up. Do you want to blow all of our political capital now? On Siren trades? Because if we have terrible relations when we divide it up the Conservatives will get the bulk of it with terrible long term consiquences.

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Not at the moment.

Currently Svartalfhiem don't want one, Aflehiem doesn't either, Jotunheim only wants high grav, Nif and Mus don't Asgard doesn't Vanahiem and Midgard are both already doing one and thus can't for another century which is more than enough time to repair our capital with the new emissaries

Currently all worlds we conquer are going to be trust administrated for the for see-able future and that foreseeable future goes on for a long time.

After some careful investigation Inquisitor Klovis-Ultan found out that Vanaheim was planning on making a bid for Dooneeva, which it plans to form into a mining world with assistance from Jotunheim experts. Midgard is planning on making a bid for Staigue which is the most fertile of the recently captured worlds and intends to have the world begin as an Agri-World and eventually develop into an Agri/Hive World. Jotunheim has no plans to bid for one of the current worlds but plans to make a id for any high gravity worlds tat the Imperial Trust captures. As expected neither the Mechanicus, the Inquisition or the Security Council have any plans to bid for any worlds, though that will change for the Mechanicus if any former Forge-Worlds are ever captured. Alfheim has no plans to make nay colonies, though they have agreed to offer their expertise to Midgard for its planned Agri-World on Staigue. Niflheim has no plans to bid for any worlds in the near future, though if they do the worlds will probably be ice worlds like Niflheim.

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[Azgrin]

Personally I'm too blinded by the shinies to put much in here, all I can think about is Old One warpcraft at our disposal.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

Personally I'm too blinded by the shinies to put much in here, all I can think about is Old some warpcraft at our disposal.

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Well rune craft that isn't affected by Chaos and non eldar certainly, I doubt that the Sirens have Old One tech yet.

Maybe their stuff is like going goo goo gaa gaa in Old One rune terms.

 

[Nurgle]

I thought we were going for reverse engineering the extermination missiles. keep the forces here than have them attack after we finish and we have enough time attack other ork worlds.

 

[MonkeyTypewriter]

Not at the moment.

Currently Svartalfhiem don't want one, Aflehiem doesn't either, Jotunheim only wants high grav, Nif and Mus don't Asgard doesn't Vanahiem and Midgard are both already doing one and thus can't for another century which is more than enough time to repair our capital with the new emissaries

Currently all worlds we conquer are going to be trust administrated for the for see-able future and that foreseeable future goes on for a long time.

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Keep in mind that we are going to invading and conquering the local orks.

 

[Enjou]

My general thoughts on use of our forces will be to go with the Fast approach, and only use our forces to deal with other Ork worlds after we've taken the three Ork domains.

 

[Doomed Wombat]

I thought we were going for reverse engineering the extermination missiles. keep the forces here than have them attack after we finish and we have enough time attack other ork worlds.

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There's a vote for that, some don't want to because it puts a target on our heads I say do it because War moons.

Keep in mind that we are going to invading and conquering the local orks.

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That's what I was talking about.

We take them all it we go from 13 worlds to 8+7+13=28+13=41 worlds (assuming we don't just nuke Kazag as he's really far away from us, probably too far for us to effectively manage).

Aflehiem is the one most likely to want to make a new world and they don't, Van and Mid are already doing it and won't finish for another 100 years at best.

Other wise Asgard really don't want too due to the knight thing, so that leaves us radicals who might.

Which is unlikely seeing as we need to focus on our defences so we'll probably just provide man power and expertise to the trust to colonise them at max speed.

Some worlds will likely end up with conservative tilts, but what can you do.

Honestly at the moment I expect them to end up like ORD worlds, just full on military installations to slow down orks as they try to break for our fortified centre, we don't have time for anything else (I will reemphasise people 30 years at worst 50 at best we are on a clock now)

 

[Nurgle]

@Enjou if we take the fast approach can we have Ridicule divine the orks attack. That way we could lower the chance from medium to lower.

Because destroying the local orks should be the top priority. Than fortifying everything we can. Than destroying orks if we can.

 

[nat_401]

I'm thinking the fast option, the security council agree and they are the most concentrated gathering of military experience in the trust, it'll also give us the time to fortify all 3 ex-ork realms even if Gork and Mork wake up in the minimum time frame.