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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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Enjou said:
I'm not saying none of them will find out, but locally the only ones that are relevant are our local Chaos polities and there's no guarantee on their part. Someone like Abbadon will almost surely find out and be making preparations, as he's got enough Diviners and favor in general that he'll probably be made aware one way or another, but people like him aren't necessarily going to warn their rivals or the myriad of small Chaos polities out there. The likes of Valinor, Turoq, and Demagoye have some chance of finding out since they are not super small, but it's still a crap shoot for them. The minor Chaos worlds? Very low chance of any of them finding out.
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Shrug maybe the tzeench and slaanesh domain valinor is the wild card. We don't know how the abomination treats its people besides control, but given the legion we fought with it seems a bit more willing to hand out mass power and they do have dedicated diviners. They also have a full on Angyel world potentially with access to hihpgh tier angels.

Valinor is also our most immediate concern.
 
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Alex pears said:
Valinor is also our most immediate concern.
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This.
Though yes, they are weaker than us, we have a powerful chaos empire sitting on our doorstep. Perhaps wiping out the local Ork threat does take priority, but I think serious assaults on Tugozak should probably be held up. It seems likely he'll strike at Karnas if he gets his realm in order, but he may well go north towards atlas and attack the dark mechanicus faction up there. Unless of course some of Garkills boyz got to Tugozak and told him about how welcoming the Avernite tourist board was.
 
Angelform said:
Initial thoughts:

Ork Domains
While we could swing for the rush option I don't think it is worth it. The danger of failure outweighs the potential time gain.

Extermiantus
Tough one. Personally I would like to have the weapons researched and ready but not deployed until after G&M awaken. Destroying worlds is a major step and should not be done out of panic.

Tugozak's Domain
We should ignore the place for now. We have many things to do and only limited resources to divide between them. We can try a decapitation strike in the final turn before the awakening.

Minor Worlds
Crush them with the fleet, don't bother invading. We can't wipe the worlds clean in the time we have but we can obliterate their industry.

Siren dietary supplements
Oh boy. We can take the reputation hit, just about. And this might be the only chance we ever have.
Sigard – argument about how much better combatants our psykers have become from learning new warp techniques?

Contact the Eldar and Necrons
Yep.

Warn local Chaos
Nope. Even if we wanted to the rep loss convincing enough people would be ruinous.
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^Ork Domains

I agree, medium speed for this

Exterminatus:
Reverse-engineer them, but hold those cards close to our chest. Lets not get in the habit of killing worlds because its convenient

Tugozak's Domain
Too far away, focus on making the our neighborhood secure.

Minor Worlds
Yeah, do what damage we can with the fleet.

Siren dietary supplements
Hell no, once again I say frak the Sirens. I don't care about the advantages, we do not get in the habit of sacrificing souls to xenos.

Contact the Eldar and Necrons
Definitely do this, their focus on those goals is valuable.

Warn local Chaos
Let them burn.
 
Alex pears said:
Sigh. Let's not get onto this one yet there's plenty of other things to be determined first.
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No, Enjou and you are already arguing firmly in support of it. How can you then put down others when they offer a counterpoint?

At least some of the people voting in this quest do not agree with pursuing further relations with the Sirens. Please do not put it down to just game mechanics. I personally will find it distasteful to continue with this quest if the Trust resorts to such a heinous policy in the name of power. In my mind, sacrificing sapient souls to gain power puts those involved on the exact same level of Chaos.
 
Valerian said:
No, Enjou and you are already arguing firmly in support of it. How can you then put down others when they offer a counterpoint?

At least some of the people voting in this quest do not agree with pursuing further relations with the Sirens. Please do not put it down to just game mechanics. I personally will find it distasteful to continue with this quest if the Trust resorts to such a heinous policy in the name of power. In my mind, sacrificing sapient souls to gain power puts those involved on the exact same level of Chaos.
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Souls that are already going to Chaos... I'm sorry but this position is untenable. The level of Chaos polities would be if we sacrificed civilians.
 
Valerian said:
No, Enjou and you are already arguing firmly in support of it. How can you then put down others when they offer a counterpoint?

At least some of the people voting in this quest do not agree with pursuing further relations with the Sirens. Please do not put it down to just game mechanics. I personally will find it distasteful to continue with this quest if the Trust resorts to such a heinous policy in the name of power. In my mind, sacrificing sapient souls to gain power puts those involved on the exact same level of Chaos.
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Shrug sacrificing those douchebags that give up everything for power betraying their fellow man for power and feeding the cancer in the warp that wants to destroy and twist all to its insane whims and torturing those same souls for eternity rather than a quick burst of pain if that then death.

No I have no problems giving cultists to the sirens in fact it's much better than they deserve peaceful oblivion rather than an eternity of repentance, but we can't do that so don't get on your horse and compare killing them and handing them over to the whims and tortures of chaos for all eternity is anything like giving them to the sirens who just eat them and then finish true death.

So yeah if you really find it soooo distasteful do what you want, but we are not like chaos at worst we're a some what's radical inquisitor

I have also not proposed we accept yet I want to table it until we see the rune in action and decide on superior info even though I do not hide that I want to accept.
 
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So here's the net effects on our diplomatic situation if we go with the Siren trade:

Current Views of Avernus, as per end of Turn 92:
Asgard 18/10
Alfheim 8/10
Vanaheim 9/10
Jotunheim 10/10
Midgard 12/10
Svartalfheim 8/10
Niflheim 8/10
Muspelheim 11/10
Byzantium 8/10

Results if we convince Garp (chance that Sigurd will side with opposition):
Asgard 18/10
Alfheim 5/10
Vanaheim 6/10
Jotunheim 6/10
Midgard 9/10
Svartalfheim 5/10
Niflheim 8/10
Muspelheim 11/10
Byzantium (8 or 5)/10 (unknown effect)

Results if we convince Garp and Sigurd (guarantees the issue passes):
Asgard 14/10
Alfheim 4/10
Vanaheim 5/10
Jotunheim 6/10
Midgard 8/10
Svartalfheim 4/10
Niflheim 8/10
Muspelheim 11/10
Byzantium (8 or 4)/10 (unknown effect)

Either way this is something we can afford to do. Nobody's relations with us will become dangerously low (Vanaheim became lower than this during the got caught spying debacle), and with the expanded embassies we have a small but not insignificant chance of getting +1 to our relations each year (or is it turn? @Durin - the option said year, but are you going to roll five times for each polity every turn or did you mean every year?) and that can get everyone back up to 10. If we need to we can also do some Relations actions, which get +10 due to the embassies.

The entire reason we build up these relations modifiers is so that we can spend them when we need to. This seems like one of those times to me.


Valerian said:
At least some of the people voting in this quest do not agree with pursuing further relations with the Sirens. Please do not put it down to just game mechanics. I personally will find it distasteful to continue with this quest if the Trust resorts to such a heinous policy in the name of power. In my mind, sacrificing sapient souls to gain power puts those involved on the exact same level of Chaos.
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The souls in question are already pretty much fucked no matter what happens. They are Chaos worshipers. Their souls belong to Chaos. That means that when we kill them their souls are absorbed by the Chaos God, empowering them and subjecting them to whatever fates those entities decide on. Well, with the exception of those who have enough favor that the Chaos Gods will bring them back, and if someone has that much favor then killing them isn't going to end them.

If the Sirens eat them, then their souls are digested and have all traces of what they once were removed, and the Chaos Gods don't get anything out of it. Whether the soul is destroyed or not wasn't stated in our research on the subject, but all Chaotic corruption is certainly removed either way.
 
Enjou said:
If the Sirens eat them, then their souls are digested and have all traces of what they once were removed, and the Chaos Gods don't get anything out of it. Whether the soul is destroyed or not wasn't stated in our research on the subject, but all Chaotic corruption is certainly removed either way.
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Sirens can eat and digest daemons so I imagine true death or at least very thorough purging.

We also just did the embassy thing so we should be able to start getting pol points back quickly.
 
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Alex pears said:
Sirens can eat and digest daemons so I imagine true death or at least very thorough purging.
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Could also be that the souls end up being able to reincarnate into something else. If it's random, then an Avernus creature or a human since the soul would be closer to those things and have more opportunity to do so. If not, then some kind of Avernite creature or possibly just reincarnated into Sirens.
 
Enjou said:
Could also be that the souls end up being able to reincarnate into something else. If it's random, then an Avernus creature or a human since the soul would be closer to those things and have more opportunity to do so. If not, then some kind of Avernite creature or possibly just reincarnated into Sirens.
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Ehhh reincarnation usually requires a strong strong soul as warp beings or being exposed to the warp tends to destroy unprotected souls.

Avernus could interceded, but if they scrub it clean I think it'd probably be release back to the warp as pure energy.
 
You know, we could ask Ridcully to see what happens when we fee souls to Sirens. It would be worth knowing if it strengthens sirens ir their gods, if they have any.
 
Valerian said:
At least some of the people voting in this quest do not agree with pursuing further relations with the Sirens.
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I am firmly in favor of pursuing further relations with Sirens. I am, though, strongly against feeding humans to them, even chaos-cultists. There are plenty of things we can try to offer them yet.
 
vsh said:
I am firmly in favor of pursuing further relations with Sirens. I am, though, strongly against feeding humans to them, even chaos-cultists. There are plenty of things we can try to offer them yet.
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If you have alternatives I'm all ears... where I'm not all tentacles under the bucket
 
IMO we should go for the rush option on the Ork Domains. The extra time could easily prove critical is forting up and/or exterminating orks.

I will be voting against the Siren trade, as usual.
 
Sacrificing cultist to the Sirens is a matter of expediting having to colonize every region in Avernus. We could probly get enough animals that the Sirens would trade there warding, but that would literally be hundreds of years from now.

Selling the cultist to the Sirens would get us the warding we need to make our cities demon proof. Or the ships more resistant to teleportation. Or protect our populas from chaos, imagine if all those psyker we keep loosing got corrupted by chaos we're on our side. We have 2 more alphas going though the trials right now.
 
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Fuck the cultists, they forfeited their souls when they started worshiping the dark powers and the abomination. I say agree to the deal with the sirens. Whether we feed them to the sirens or not someone is going to be eating their souls either way so we might as well do it given we can take the hit relation wise. Besides it'll ensure Tzeentch has less chaos psykers to snatch up for whatever nonsense plan he has been planning. Also the guaranteed threat of their souls being eaten might keep other people from joining the cults.
 
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Alex pears said:
If you have alternatives I'm all ears... where I'm not all tentacles under the bucket
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I think some of this have been tried (art?) but I couldn't find the exact quote so I'm writing all I can off the top of my head.
  1. Art
  2. Luxury items (up to non-military tailored relics from Svartalfheim)
  3. Entertainment (technology and trade goods)
  4. Entertainment (live shows)
  5. Utility and sports equipment
  6. Civilian-grade weapons
  7. Civilian-grade vehicles
  8. Build them a floating/underwater city to our highest standards
  9. Tourism
  10. Off-world tourism
  11. Non-military eldar/dark eldar tech and art
  12. Psyker artisans' works (i.e. illusory pine amulets etc)
  13. Off-world animals
  14. Diplomatic facilitator services with avernite xenos
  15. Diplomatic facilitator services with off-world parties
 
@Enjou add to the argument that:
1) We aren't sacrificing human Souls, the subjects already have lost their humanity to chaos. They should think of the Sirens as a very exotic trash disposer, not as xenos. Not unlike giving scraps to a local fauna creature one has adopted.
2) We are actively fighting Chaos by denying them assets and knowledge and raw energy.
3) It saves avernite's elite, a crucial resource to the Trust, from being spent preventing something the runes could do for free.
4) Add in the personal angle, that none here had their planet invaded by a major army of demons. We more than any have a duty to our people to do our very best to protect them, as we swore to do. Weakening chaos psykers, preventing demon incursions and warding off the wildlife are top priorities.
 
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vsh said:
I think some of this have been tried (art?) but I couldn't find the exact quote so I'm writing all I can off the top of my head.
  1. Art
  2. Luxury items (up to non-military tailored relics from Svartalfheim)
  3. Entertainment (technology and trade goods)
  4. Entertainment (live shows)
  5. Utility and sports equipment
  6. Civilian-grade weapons
  7. Civilian-grade vehicles
  8. Build them a floating/underwater city to our highest standards
  9. Tourism
  10. Off-world tourism
  11. Non-military eldar/dark eldar tech and art
  12. Psyker artisans' works (i.e. illusory pine amulets etc)
  13. Off-world animals
  14. Diplomatic facilitator services with avernite xenos
  15. Diplomatic facilitator services with off-world parties
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The exact thing you are looking for is our first trade with them same turn as the exploration of Duat

1-5 are probably folded under luxuries though I doubt they'd have interest in sports they are fish women

5-8 are prohibited no technology even stuff which is 20th century this was a constant for all trust members

9-10 are unlikely can you imagine us even now wanting to visit and they don't allow visitors and even then what do they get

11 we don't have any of or we would probably know

12 they can probably do better

13 are non psychic

14-15 they have no interest in they don't want to leave and barely consider the trolls sentient other xenos maybe, but they seem to have their own contacts.

Supplying them with materials is a maybe, but we currently only have 1 which given lindon's position they can get at. we can research more, but given our action economy it might not be sensible.
 
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Enjou said:
Not to mention that if we allowed Sirens off world and even one managed to eat someone's soul (especially an uncorrupted one) we may well be excommunicated, kicked out of the Trust, or at least lose our govenorship.
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And expanding off world what is off world that they want? Or at least off world that we can't provide.
 
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