Unfortunately this doesn't actually say that they asked for cultists specifically, unless @Durin wants to clarify that it was indeed what they asked for.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
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Unfortunately this doesn't actually say that they asked for cultists specifically, unless @Durin wants to clarify that it was indeed what they asked for.
Doomed Wombat
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As I said I think I remember someone asked for clarification and that was what he said, but I could be misremembering.
I wouldn't be surprised either way, they've got good reasons to ask for cultists specifically and not too.
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Godzillaslayer10
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Hmmm, with the recent revelations about the orks. I'm curious if we should start psychic orders that we weren't planning on doing. Then there's the problem of the warp rifts. I wonder if Durin rolls for Tzeentch successfully opening the warp rifts without alerting Avernus. On the other hand I'm almost tempted to let it slide since Gork and Mork once they get going are going to start stomping the Galaxy and Chaos Gods hard.
My biggest problem with the Orks as a Galaxy spanning threat is there's not much we can do about the ones outside of our reach. If just one Ork warlord reaches Krorkhood. There is nothing stopping it from using its bullshit tech to move around the Galaxy. I'm being serious. Nothing we have could match the speed of the Beasts tech. In essence; let's hope the current galactic powers take care of the orks outside of our reach.
My biggest problem with the Orks as a Galaxy spanning threat is there's not much we can do about the ones outside of our reach. If just one Ork warlord reaches Krorkhood. There is nothing stopping it from using its bullshit tech to move around the Galaxy. I'm being serious. Nothing we have could match the speed of the Beasts tech. In essence; let's hope the current galactic powers take care of the orks outside of our reach.
Well he vanished from a locked room shortly before psykers began disappearing into warp rifts. Odds are the two are related and the Changer of Ways got him.
Doomed Wombat
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Doubt it.
The rifts are things that stick around long enough for us to see them getting dragged off and Ridcully could divine them, the interfearance he got when he tried on the knight seems more like Avernus.
That being said who knows, we can ask @Durin if we can try.
Yeah, daemon hunters for a start, but the first thing we have to do is this
Its the gateway tech for figuring out Gork and Mork's psy signature so we can counter it.
It was actually quite a while before actually.
In any case the rifts stick around long enough for us to see the psykers get dragged off, I find it unlikely that a rift that takes time to drag off toddlers and teens would be able to drag off a Grey Knight in the time it takes to open a door without leaving anything Ridcully could track even back then.
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Remember we had Changeling operating on site with is consistent with GK not reacting with hostility.
Doomed Wombat
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We don't know when the Changling showed up and even then it took a crit from Ridcully to reveal it.
The GK have no chance of detecting something that can impersonate living saints and then gets away with it.
What if that GK was Changeling in disguise?
Doomed Wombat
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Possible, we wouldn't have been able to tell the difference, in deed if we had scanned his mind we would have found everything indicating he was who he said he was down to the very bottom of his soul.
True Metal Power
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Yes. Maybe it killed the GK and get rid of the body some time before, and some time later after doing some nefarious things evacuated through warp rift in that room.
EDIT: Are we sure that Jane killed the Changeling and not the other way around?
EDIT: Are we sure that Jane killed the Changeling and not the other way around?
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This isn't just a matter if expansion, even just establishing a protectorate would help too.
We need to prevent the Orks from taking any human world's in our neighborhood, whether we own them or not.
@Enjou please consider adding the education trade to the Blood Dragons deal. Even if they can't complete it in a couple decades this is at minimum a century long threat and boosting their education (and thus priductivity) is a vital buff that doesn't really risk falling into Chaos hands.
Doomed Wombat
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Possible.
The Changling is the Changer of Way's most dangerous agent for a reason. I personally doubt that this was the case as I think we stopped the Changling soon after it was summoned to Avernus, but its entirly possible that is what happened.
Well there's not much we can do on this front, all those negotiations take time, time we lack.
We are also not well equipped to be doing much for protectorates at the moment seeing as best case scenario, we're going to be trapped in our bit of space again under constant ork attacks.
In the grand scheme of things the orks change nothing. They are just one of many galactic threats plaguing humanity.
The Silent King has risen again, the Great Devourer comes, Chaos grows mighty from the ascendance of a fifth god, the Eldar are free of Slaanesh and reach for the power of their Empire that was.
Doomed Wombat
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Actually in the grand scheme of things for us they are the most immediate concern.
The Eldar are off doing whatever they are doing and seem to be taking no interest in us, the Silent King and Nids are beating the crap out of each other in dark space and don't affect us.
Chaos was a threat to us, but we don't know when that supposed crusade was coming, so the Orks change an awful lot for us in the grand scheme of things.
I mean just look at what they're making us do, letting us even get the Cultist and Siren problem talked about at the highest level.
And when they come they're going to be very dangerous for the galaxy as a whole.
Damage to the Cron industrial base is bad cause it may force them to divide their attention then the Devourer might start getting through for example.
For us the Orks are the most immediate threat, true. I was just pointing out that for humanity as a whole on a galactic scale they are just one threat of many.
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Which is q wholly academic point and does not detract from my assertion that it is vital to buff the local humans as much as we can.
Doomed Wombat
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No they just became the main threat for EVERYONE.
From the crons to chaos to the eldar.
Hell the only ones who they are not yet a threat to are the nids and that's cause the bulk of them ain't in the galaxy yet.
Which ain't much I fear.
I mean the most we can do has pretty much been added to the plans.
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Well, the same true for orks. IIRC Mechanicus detected ork signals from all nearby galaxies.
Doomed Wombat
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Really?
I mean I'd not be surprised, but... well I'm going to need a cite?
I mean I didn't even know the admech could detect stuff from other galaxies.
Goes off to do some checking.
That's overstating things a bit, sure the Beast was a threat to the Imeprium in 30K, but Chaos is what both set up its fall in 20K and delivered the coup de grace
Doomed Wombat
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The beast would have destroyed the Imperium and very nearly did or did you forget about the war moon it parked over terra, the missing primarch, the entirety of the Imperial fists getting wiped out and the Imperium being shattered.
Oh and the Beast being so bad that the BLACK TEMPLARS allied themselves with the Iron Warriors. Yeah that happened too.
What most people tend to forget is that while the Imperium was set up to fall by chaos it was the Beast's waaargh that sent it on a down wards spiral.
Before the Imperium was actually doing very well, worlds were prosperous there was little fighting and the marines were actually running out of things to do. Hell even the admech were more liberal wanting to study the ork tech rather than destroy it.
The beast destroyed all that and then the beheading in the aftermath killed off the rest.
And given that Gork and Mork are going to be active this time they're going to be much much worse.
So no I'm not overstating things in the slightest.
Also the Great Crusade was in M30-M31 (Not M20 anything) the Beast was in M32.
Also what coup de grace? The Emperor died, apart from the initial nobbling Chaos had nothing to do with that.
Oh and in case you want to know where the emperor worship thing became big, yeah its the War of the Beast. Before none of the High lords pushed it, then the beheading happened and yeah.
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Doomed Wombat
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Well I just learned something I didn't before hand...
One of Magnus's shards was/became Janus, the first chapter master of the Grey Knights...
Well that's a thing now
Revuel Arvida - Lexicanum
For more context apparently the shard of Magnus that was his Noble Virtues was on terra (which was apparently why the main shard wanted to attack it) and Malcador bound it to a loyalist Son. It didn't go as intended and Janus was the result.
Actually Magnus's shards have been quite active in various areas.
I think I'm going to be diving back in to see what other stuff I've missed for not keeping up with the gathering storm.
One of Magnus's shards was/became Janus, the first chapter master of the Grey Knights...
Well that's a thing now
Revuel Arvida - Lexicanum
For more context apparently the shard of Magnus that was his Noble Virtues was on terra (which was apparently why the main shard wanted to attack it) and Malcador bound it to a loyalist Son. It didn't go as intended and Janus was the result.
Actually Magnus's shards have been quite active in various areas.
Lexicanium said:
I think I'm going to be diving back in to see what other stuff I've missed for not keeping up with the gathering storm.
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Enjou's plan, but with a greater emphasis on diplomatic outreach. My additions are in bold.
[X] Plan For the Good of Humanity
Military
- Rotbart agrees with trying to take the remaining nearby Ork worlds if possible. Rotbart suggests the next priority after securing the remaining worlds of the Danaan would be to target Kazag's Domain, as his fleet is larger and his domain is closer, making him more mobile as a threat. If possible, coordinate with the Dragon's Nest.
- Rotbart states that damaging Tugozak's domain would likely only be viable via the use of Exterminatus weapons and stealth ships, but the Trust's stock of Exterminatus grade weaponry is limited. For this plan to be viable, the Inquisition will need to agree to turn over enough of their stock for Archmagos Tranth to attempt to reverse engineer them.
- Rotbart believes wiping out the minor Ork worlds is of value, but is of lower priority and should only be done if the resources can be spared. Targets should be chosen in such a way to maximize distance between minor Ork worlds, so as to prevent any of them from forming into a more coherent force under a single Warlord's banner.
- Rotbart agrees with moving the military focus to fortification once there's a decade left.
- Rotbart notes the following:
-- Avernus recently made a trade with the Sirens of Azure Bay to provide them with a number of Avernite animals in exchange for one of their runes. The rune in question supposedly banishes Warp entities in the Materium back to the Warp. The hope was that it would provide a reliable way to banish Chaos daemons, but if the Orks end up having their own daemons then it could possibly be used against them as well. It is noteworthy that during the Daemonic Incursion that the Sirens' city did not come under attack at all, which if this rune is used in their warding schemes and works as advertised explains why that is. Of course, we are not about to trust xeno psychic knowledge without thoroughly testing it first, and want to have Saint Lin check for Chaos corruption on top of having the Astra Telepathica take the necessary time to study it.
-- Rotbart mentions that the Sirens would be willing to trade more of their runic knowledge in exchange for human souls to eat. Obviously he isn't advocating giving them uncorrupted humans, but there is the possibility of Avernus giving them Chaos cultists. Previous discussion on this matter with Saint Lin has shown this is a theological grey area, as while it would be feeding human souls to xenos those souls would otherwise be taken by the Chaos Gods and their daemons once the cultists were killed. Given the situation and the potential value of Old Ones level Warp lore (which evidence so far suggests is highly resistant, if not outright immune, to Chaotic corruption) he feels it's worth considering putting this before the High Council for consideration.
-- Other avenues of psychic research are also available. It may be possible to find psychic frequences that are disruptive to Gork and Mork, and Rotbart also suggests that the AdMech allow Tranth to study the Psy-Jammers that were purchased from Atlas.
- Rotbart asks Archmagos Prime Paladis if he would be willing to voice support for having Archmagos Tranth apply the knowledge gained from studying the Well of Urd's advanced plasma reactors to the Stable and Overcharged designs from the DAoT datacore, and seeing if he could convince the other major conservatives to support it as well. Rotbart points out that it seems logical that the ancients would have had designs for such variants using the same knowledge, but likely did not have time to put them into wider use before the Men of Iron rebelled and destroyed their STC system.
Diplomacy
- Rotbart agrees with notifying the Dragon's Nest and any human polities we can find.
-- He suggests a generous technology trade with the Dragon's Nest. He suggests trading them the technology to build Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and equivalently upgraded Imperial era ships and defenses, all of the Imperial Era economic STCs (and possibly some of the DAoT ones), and some ground technologies such as Royal Basilisks (the local Orks have partially reverse engineered these anyways, and good artillery is essential against Orks), designs for Astartes Advanced Power Armors, as well as some finished examples of other technologies such as Fellblades. In exchange the Trust would want the designs for the two levels of Forges that the AdMech doesn't currently possess, STCs for Astartes equipment the Trust doesn't have but the Blood Dragons do, having Technomancy taught to members of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and anything else of value.
--- Also suggest that Navigator gene trading should be considered to boost the breeding rates in both polities.
-- He suggests possibly building some Defence Cruisers, Defence Monitors, and Imperial era ships for Karnas to better fortify them.
-- He suggests possibly building a large number of Imperial era Defence Monitors for some of the minor non-Chaos human polities in the area, as this would be a fast and relatively cheap way to boost their defences. Some excess manufacturing could also go towards building enough Imperial era ground equipment and vehicles to better equip their PDF forces.
-offer Dragon's Nest educational aid to boost their productivity
-offer a full defensive alliance against the Orkish menace, and full exchange of all strategic information regarding our surrounding star systems and enemies
-propose a joint offensive against Kasag's dominion
-propose an officer exchange program, with the goal of improving the coordination of our military forces
-begin negotiations with the Dragon's Nest Mechanicus, Inquisition, and Adeptus Telepathica with the goal of eventually integrating them with our own organizations
-assemble a generalized aid package for local human worlds, consisting of advisors, excess military equipment, and economic subsidies
-investigate which if any of these worlds might feasibly and profitably be uplifted and integrated into the Trust within two hundred years
-investigate which local habitable/inhabited worlds are of vital strategic interest to the Trust, with the intention of creating a triage system for responding to Orkish incursions
- Rotbart agrees with notifying Xenos, including the local Necrons and the Eldar. He also suggests that if they can be contacted and if they'd be willing to have the Eldar pass on the message on to Ultramar (if they'd be willing to take an actual messenger on our behalf that would be ideal), any other significant non-Chaos human polities, and possibly even the Tau or other xeno empires of note, so that they may prepare as well. By notifying such a broad group it should hopefully decrease the chances of individual Warlords reaching the level of the Beast, as more Ork Waaaghs will be defeated by major local powers.
- Rotbart reluctantly agrees that notifying the nearby Chaos polities may be a strategically wise decision, though is adamantly against any cooperation with them further than notification. The Chaos polities that manage to survive will almost surely continue to be rivals with one another as much as they'd be our enemies even if they survive, and are unlikely to unify like an Ork Waaagh would if such a unification was needed for the Orks to break the Trust. However, Rotbart also suggests that a decision on this should be made jointly with the Dragon's Nest after sharing all our data on the possible scale of the problem, and only if both polities agree should notifications be given to the Chaos polities.
Industrial
- Rotbart agrees with increasing the mandated level of defences on Imperial Trust worlds, but does not have a suggested level.
- Rotbart agrees with requiring all worlds to have a full Avernite style militia. This will raise the overall skill level of all Trust forces, which are already quite high, and make it much more difficult for Orks or any invaders to take one of the Trust's worlds. While this will put a strain on the citizens and can decrease morale, the overall morale in the Trust is excellent and he believes the citizens of the Trust will understand the necessity.
[X] Plan For the Good of Humanity
Military
- Rotbart agrees with trying to take the remaining nearby Ork worlds if possible. Rotbart suggests the next priority after securing the remaining worlds of the Danaan would be to target Kazag's Domain, as his fleet is larger and his domain is closer, making him more mobile as a threat. If possible, coordinate with the Dragon's Nest.
- Rotbart states that damaging Tugozak's domain would likely only be viable via the use of Exterminatus weapons and stealth ships, but the Trust's stock of Exterminatus grade weaponry is limited. For this plan to be viable, the Inquisition will need to agree to turn over enough of their stock for Archmagos Tranth to attempt to reverse engineer them.
- Rotbart believes wiping out the minor Ork worlds is of value, but is of lower priority and should only be done if the resources can be spared. Targets should be chosen in such a way to maximize distance between minor Ork worlds, so as to prevent any of them from forming into a more coherent force under a single Warlord's banner.
- Rotbart agrees with moving the military focus to fortification once there's a decade left.
- Rotbart notes the following:
-- Avernus recently made a trade with the Sirens of Azure Bay to provide them with a number of Avernite animals in exchange for one of their runes. The rune in question supposedly banishes Warp entities in the Materium back to the Warp. The hope was that it would provide a reliable way to banish Chaos daemons, but if the Orks end up having their own daemons then it could possibly be used against them as well. It is noteworthy that during the Daemonic Incursion that the Sirens' city did not come under attack at all, which if this rune is used in their warding schemes and works as advertised explains why that is. Of course, we are not about to trust xeno psychic knowledge without thoroughly testing it first, and want to have Saint Lin check for Chaos corruption on top of having the Astra Telepathica take the necessary time to study it.
-- Rotbart mentions that the Sirens would be willing to trade more of their runic knowledge in exchange for human souls to eat. Obviously he isn't advocating giving them uncorrupted humans, but there is the possibility of Avernus giving them Chaos cultists. Previous discussion on this matter with Saint Lin has shown this is a theological grey area, as while it would be feeding human souls to xenos those souls would otherwise be taken by the Chaos Gods and their daemons once the cultists were killed. Given the situation and the potential value of Old Ones level Warp lore (which evidence so far suggests is highly resistant, if not outright immune, to Chaotic corruption) he feels it's worth considering putting this before the High Council for consideration.
-- Other avenues of psychic research are also available. It may be possible to find psychic frequences that are disruptive to Gork and Mork, and Rotbart also suggests that the AdMech allow Tranth to study the Psy-Jammers that were purchased from Atlas.
- Rotbart asks Archmagos Prime Paladis if he would be willing to voice support for having Archmagos Tranth apply the knowledge gained from studying the Well of Urd's advanced plasma reactors to the Stable and Overcharged designs from the DAoT datacore, and seeing if he could convince the other major conservatives to support it as well. Rotbart points out that it seems logical that the ancients would have had designs for such variants using the same knowledge, but likely did not have time to put them into wider use before the Men of Iron rebelled and destroyed their STC system.
Diplomacy
- Rotbart agrees with notifying the Dragon's Nest and any human polities we can find.
-- He suggests a generous technology trade with the Dragon's Nest. He suggests trading them the technology to build Helheim Pattern Defence Cruisers and equivalently upgraded Imperial era ships and defenses, all of the Imperial Era economic STCs (and possibly some of the DAoT ones), and some ground technologies such as Royal Basilisks (the local Orks have partially reverse engineered these anyways, and good artillery is essential against Orks), designs for Astartes Advanced Power Armors, as well as some finished examples of other technologies such as Fellblades. In exchange the Trust would want the designs for the two levels of Forges that the AdMech doesn't currently possess, STCs for Astartes equipment the Trust doesn't have but the Blood Dragons do, having Technomancy taught to members of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, and anything else of value.
--- Also suggest that Navigator gene trading should be considered to boost the breeding rates in both polities.
-- He suggests possibly building some Defence Cruisers, Defence Monitors, and Imperial era ships for Karnas to better fortify them.
-- He suggests possibly building a large number of Imperial era Defence Monitors for some of the minor non-Chaos human polities in the area, as this would be a fast and relatively cheap way to boost their defences. Some excess manufacturing could also go towards building enough Imperial era ground equipment and vehicles to better equip their PDF forces.
-offer Dragon's Nest educational aid to boost their productivity
-offer a full defensive alliance against the Orkish menace, and full exchange of all strategic information regarding our surrounding star systems and enemies
-propose a joint offensive against Kasag's dominion
-propose an officer exchange program, with the goal of improving the coordination of our military forces
-begin negotiations with the Dragon's Nest Mechanicus, Inquisition, and Adeptus Telepathica with the goal of eventually integrating them with our own organizations
-assemble a generalized aid package for local human worlds, consisting of advisors, excess military equipment, and economic subsidies
-investigate which if any of these worlds might feasibly and profitably be uplifted and integrated into the Trust within two hundred years
-investigate which local habitable/inhabited worlds are of vital strategic interest to the Trust, with the intention of creating a triage system for responding to Orkish incursions
- Rotbart agrees with notifying Xenos, including the local Necrons and the Eldar. He also suggests that if they can be contacted and if they'd be willing to have the Eldar pass on the message on to Ultramar (if they'd be willing to take an actual messenger on our behalf that would be ideal), any other significant non-Chaos human polities, and possibly even the Tau or other xeno empires of note, so that they may prepare as well. By notifying such a broad group it should hopefully decrease the chances of individual Warlords reaching the level of the Beast, as more Ork Waaaghs will be defeated by major local powers.
- Rotbart reluctantly agrees that notifying the nearby Chaos polities may be a strategically wise decision, though is adamantly against any cooperation with them further than notification. The Chaos polities that manage to survive will almost surely continue to be rivals with one another as much as they'd be our enemies even if they survive, and are unlikely to unify like an Ork Waaagh would if such a unification was needed for the Orks to break the Trust. However, Rotbart also suggests that a decision on this should be made jointly with the Dragon's Nest after sharing all our data on the possible scale of the problem, and only if both polities agree should notifications be given to the Chaos polities.
Industrial
- Rotbart agrees with increasing the mandated level of defences on Imperial Trust worlds, but does not have a suggested level.
- Rotbart agrees with requiring all worlds to have a full Avernite style militia. This will raise the overall skill level of all Trust forces, which are already quite high, and make it much more difficult for Orks or any invaders to take one of the Trust's worlds. While this will put a strain on the citizens and can decrease morale, the overall morale in the Trust is excellent and he believes the citizens of the Trust will understand the necessity.
Doomed Wombat
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This is moving too fast, they've been independent for over 1000 years they are not going to just drop sticks and join us even as an eventuality.
I've got a few issues with this.
1. Economic subsidies are impractical for two reasons the first we need all we can get at the moment to fortify what we already have and transporting them is impossible. That is one thing it often seems like you don't quite appreciate space is big. It'll take us months to transport a useful amount of material any reasonable distance, and before you say thrones that's our currency it means nothing to them
2. Probably none of them are close enough for integration even if we wanted to.
The closest ones to us are 50 light years from us and seeing as groups like the Blood Dragons are 80 from us getting there, communicating and uplifiting them in the time we have (never mind when the storm hits) is a waste of time.
I get you want to expand the trust, but we can't the way you want to.
And even then expansion right now is a really foolish move.