ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
I mean, the Eye of Terra is probably enough Angyls to kick his arse via sheer numbers and how much raw might the Abomination can exert there.
Numbers matter, after all.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
Numbers matter, after all.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Against any other C'tan probably, but remember the Void Dragon was the creator of Cadia's pylons, which were intended to be part of a larger system to to cut the materium off from the warp given the Cadia pylons were able to hold back the entire Eye of Terror on their lonesome I think the Dragon's got that weakness handled.
Considering the thing could make infinite numbers of beings that the Eldar at their height couldn't even scratch I'd say the Dragon's got the number's game handled as well.
ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
Yeah, but he's got no industrial base now. And I doubt even a C'tan can pull an army out of his arse.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Yes he does its called the entirety of Mars.
ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
...Point.
Still, that's nothing on the scale of the War in Heaven, so hopefully the Abomination can kill the giant shiny lizard.
*crosses fingers*
- Location
- Germany
In another version of the endtimes he turned Mars into a battlestation and escaped Sol with the entire planet.
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Next to the C'Tan infighting it seems that the Eldar/Old Ones did the next greatest amount of damage to them via psykery. The Necrons jumped in "merely" at the end of the war. Leaving me to think the eldar, if they still have sufficient pre-fall weaponry could do it, possibly. The lack of blackstones does hamper them though.
Depends on a lot Alex. The Outsider was apparently not the strongest of the C'Tan (that goes to the Dragon), just the most murderous of them all. Regarding the Dragon all I really know is his soldiers made the Necrons look like children playing. As it relates to him being on Mars that may just be where the Silent King, Old Ones or Eldar decided to lock him (or part of him) up. On the subject of the Emperor beating the void dragon that really depends on what interpretation Durin takes. He could either of beat the Dragon at full power, knocked out the Dragon as he was waking up or "simply" trapped a shard. Only Durin knows.
Could be, given the Old Ones made the place as a bio warfare lab enough Great Ones could maybe give a C'tan pause. Still betting on the Eldar though.
Wouldn't that be nice.
Depends on how fast he can build them to be fair, being trapped in a Warp Storm is a pretty shit place for a C'Tan to be.
On another note I wonder whats happening with the Tryanids on a galaxy scale. Now thats where the Necrons come in, they're perfect for handling this. Though a Beast+ tier Waagh could probably do it with enough planetoid spam, their tech advantage is just soooooo potent. The Nids really have no counter to planetoids either, I mean shit try invading a moon with Orks that can fight off space marines well. No fucking thank you. That said a Beast arising, while a potential solution to the Tyranids would be very very bad for the Galaxy.
Scariest thing is that there may well have been enough time passing between the fall of the Imperium and now that a Waagh could well have reached Beast tier. Absolutely terrifying.
Depends on if he woke up pre or post Eye of Terra. Pre he probably had enough time to spam some stuff while the Imperium was falling. Post? I'm not sure his super science will have fun in such a big warpstorm.
Yeah but that was before their star father manifested.
HanEmpire
Delicious
This was covered in the HH novel Mechanicum.
Salient points:
-Void Dragon (or a large shard thereof) landed in medieval Libya near Cyrene
-the creature was weakened and tried to replenish itself by demanding sacrifices from nearby primitive humans
-it was challenged by a "Knight" (Emperor), who defeated it (which spawned the story Saint George and the Dragon)
-The Emperor then realized the technological gold mine he'd acquired, and locked him away on Mars in the Labyrinth.
-the Labyrinth was a psychic prison designed to siphon technological secrets out of the Dragon, and is implied to have contributed to the rise of DAoT Humanity by placing advanced scientific knowledge into the minds of the human colonists on Mars.
There are heavy implications that the Emperor saw the eventuality of the Age of Strife, and that the whole Machine Cult was a massive social engineering project he undertook as a way to preserve technology. Essentially the Dragon's siphoned knowledge would appear to people as "dreams", which would then get interpreted as being from a Machine God. This would then spawn a whole religion around technology, which would create mechanics and scientists so devoted to their craft that it'd help Humanity preserve as much DAoT technology as possible.
The Emperor also created ways of controlling the Machine Cult by spreading "prophecies" about how the Omnissiah would come from the heavens during a heavy rainstorm on Mars (which is a desert world), and have the power to fix machines, and be bathed in golden light. The Emperor of course proceeded to arrive on Mars in such a way that he could fit all these criteria.
Gotcha. I made those changes as well. However, in that case I suggest switching the Mentoring Beta to year 1 and the Divination of Old One Battle Stations to Year 2 so that we can use year 2 Double Down on that.
Also, another optimization is to move Upgrade Defenses (Thaddeus action) to Year 3, allowing us to put construction of Military version Flyinf Fortress in Year 2, expedite it, and then begin Forward Operating Base Design in Year 4.
See the following sections for the changes:
This will allow better use of the Double Downs and using the empty Year 3 Expedite. I think this is the better optimization. It would also leave the Quartok Propaganda as the only remaining difference between our plans.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Going by what I understand of the recent editions it sounds like the infighting didn't even get to too start, the Crons kept the C'tan around until they were certain the Old Ones were dead and they could win before blind siding the C'tan with their weapons.
Then the warp plagues ect. zzzz.
As far as I understand it the eldar weren't actually doing all that well in the war in heaven, and it was more they were the last men standing then the victors.
If its that the Silent King or Eldar (Old Ones were apparently all dead by then) then that leads to the more terrifying question of why couldn't they shatter him like the others?
I'm pretty sure @Durin said that the Unborn were intended to be a C'tan killer at some point, he certainly said they scare the piss out of Chaos, but he also said their awakening was a game over...
Yeah, but it never turns out that way.
Just be glad that Yarrick apparently decided to ram Ghazghkull with the Fortress of Arrogance in this universe as Mag Uruk Thraka is the name the Imperium translated as The Beast.
How well the C'tan can do that is something I'm never too sure on, remeber that thing where Cypher apparently fought the deciver in the warp with a phase knife?
This is Shape of Nightmares and Age of Dusk (upon which the quest is based, but it has diverged significantly), but if I remember correctly what happened was.
1. Abandon goes to Terra to loot the place.
2. Dragon starts waking up and creates a bunch of things to kill everything in system as it dreams.
3. Abandon fights a massive war with its servitors and realises he can't win so covers Sol in a MASSIVE warp storm
4. Dragon keeps on sleeping killing everything on the surface of all sol planets to ash as it snores
5. Ahriman arrives on Sol to grab the emperor knowledge.
6. Gets it, and in order to get out punches a hole in the warp storm
7. Dragon finally wakes and in leaving blasts Mars to ash and flies out, before taking one look at the Universe and getting PISSED before taking control of seemingly the whole Necron species sans the Silent King before buggering off to do something else.
1. Abandon goes to Terra to loot the place.
2. Dragon starts waking up and creates a bunch of things to kill everything in system as it dreams.
3. Abandon fights a massive war with its servitors and realises he can't win so covers Sol in a MASSIVE warp storm
4. Dragon keeps on sleeping killing everything on the surface of all sol planets to ash as it snores
5. Ahriman arrives on Sol to grab the emperor knowledge.
6. Gets it, and in order to get out punches a hole in the warp storm
7. Dragon finally wakes and in leaving blasts Mars to ash and flies out, before taking one look at the Universe and getting PISSED before taking control of seemingly the whole Necron species sans the Silent King before buggering off to do something else.
mmm.
@Elder Haman - I don't believe @Durin has yet confirmed whether we're able to build the military variant of the Flying Fortress, or even if it takes the same time as the research variant. We should get his confirmation on that before putting it into a plan.
I asked before, but I guess Durin missed it.
@Durin
1: Can we build a Flying Fortress Military version?
We did design it see here:
2: Does it take the same time to build?
3: Will the Flying Fortress give us a bonus to the assaults on the Ork Forts?
@Durin
1: Can we build a Flying Fortress Military version?
We did design it see here:
2: Does it take the same time to build?
3: Will the Flying Fortress give us a bonus to the assaults on the Ork Forts?
Still enough time for a Waagh to pull it off. Hopefully someone has been keeping the larger Orks in check.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Given this guy is just in our neighbourhood, imagine how big Octaris has gotten.
HanEmpire
Delicious
Octarius likely got exterminated by the Necrons since a WAAAGH! that size would likely count as an existential threat in early stages.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
no
Daemonology, followed by telekinesis
though to a large extent crafting is a discipline in itself,
1. yes
2. it takes 5 years and double the cost
3. yes
Hmm... still worth doing. With an Expedite that's four years, so it will be available the second year of next turn. We will still have Ork Forts to deal with at that time.
Hmm, Abomination forces are hunting Saints and Valinor knows we have one.
So what will this potential Abomination Crusade look like?
Here is my Brainstorming:
Super-capitals:
15 Battleships
~7-8 Battle Barges
~35-40 Grand Cruisers
Capitals:
3-400 heavy cruisers
2-2,500 cruisers
500 light cruisers
21-24 Strike Cruisers
Escorts:
20-25,000 (assorted types/classes)
Transports:
5-7,000
Ground Forces:
25-35,000,000,000 Cultists/Guard/Elites
2,500-3,500 Space Marines
1-2? Titan Legions?
Reasoning: While this force seems pretty large it also has to come a long way to get to us, since our scouts have found no other Abomination affiliated Empire nearby other than Valinor. So it has to be able to potentially fight its way past something like this:
Without taking a serious loss in ships and manpower, just to muscle their way over to Trust controlled space.
Or.......Chaos Shenanigans enable them to just warp directly in from wherever.
Either explanation works.
Anyway, I am also operating under the assumption that while our neighbors display a stunning shortage of capital ships, that is not true everywhere. Especially not for a big player that can afford to throw a crusade at us from a distance.
......Or I'm just using Meta-logic to justify Durin throwing a challenge at us that we can't easily overwhelm in Void Combat and thus prevent a major land invasion again (looks at Tyranids and Garkill mk II).
Anyway, thoughts, criticisms, concerns?
So what will this potential Abomination Crusade look like?
Here is my Brainstorming:
Super-capitals:
15 Battleships
~7-8 Battle Barges
~35-40 Grand Cruisers
Capitals:
3-400 heavy cruisers
2-2,500 cruisers
500 light cruisers
21-24 Strike Cruisers
Escorts:
20-25,000 (assorted types/classes)
Transports:
5-7,000
Ground Forces:
25-35,000,000,000 Cultists/Guard/Elites
2,500-3,500 Space Marines
1-2? Titan Legions?
Reasoning: While this force seems pretty large it also has to come a long way to get to us, since our scouts have found no other Abomination affiliated Empire nearby other than Valinor. So it has to be able to potentially fight its way past something like this:
The Princedom of Turoq
Tzeenchian Domain
Ruler: Turoq (Chaos Lord)
Capital: Epra (Hive World)
Size: 40-60 Worlds
Estimated Population: 400-1,600 billion
Distance to Imperial Trust: 130 Light years to Muspelheim (West)
Military:estimated 40-160 billion cultists, estimated 10-40 billion Guard, estimated 1000 Chaos Space Marines
Estimated Fleet Turn: 1 Small Space Hulk, estimated 1,000 Capital Ships , estimated 30,000 Escorts
Tzeenchian Domain
Ruler: Turoq (Chaos Lord)
Capital: Epra (Hive World)
Size: 40-60 Worlds
Estimated Population: 400-1,600 billion
Distance to Imperial Trust: 130 Light years to Muspelheim (West)
Military:estimated 40-160 billion cultists, estimated 10-40 billion Guard, estimated 1000 Chaos Space Marines
Estimated Fleet Turn: 1 Small Space Hulk, estimated 1,000 Capital Ships , estimated 30,000 Escorts
Without taking a serious loss in ships and manpower, just to muscle their way over to Trust controlled space.
Or.......Chaos Shenanigans enable them to just warp directly in from wherever.
Either explanation works.
Anyway, I am also operating under the assumption that while our neighbors display a stunning shortage of capital ships, that is not true everywhere. Especially not for a big player that can afford to throw a crusade at us from a distance.
......Or I'm just using Meta-logic to justify Durin throwing a challenge at us that we can't easily overwhelm in Void Combat and thus prevent a major land invasion again (looks at Tyranids and Garkill mk II).
Anyway, thoughts, criticisms, concerns?
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- Location
- Berkeley
It's hard to judge exactly what will end up being sent our way. Given that we know that abom forces have much faster/easier Warp travel than non-chaos forces (see the raid from Valinor), though, I don't think that the true lower limit on size is what can take the nearby domains in a fair fight, so we could definitely see smaller formations or attempts to snipe Lin when he's traveling.
Given that Valinor has seers of some sort, I would say that any abom domain with the resources to send a major force will also have them. Given that, I'd say that it's fair to bet that the smallest force that might outright attack us will be of a size that it could defeat whatever standard defenses and forces are present on Avernus at the least—fortunately Ridcully's paragon trait means we'd still have a real chance to pull them into fights they can't win. I'd expect a decent chunk of time before even the most well established domains can throw together a force like that at least. If Valinor is typical for an abom domain (and given what exactly the abom is, I doubt that very much deviation happens), just about everyone's going to have half to three quarters of their mobile forces tied up in campaigns even if they're not being pressured.
I do wonder what the planet will do if a giant chaos fleet shows up. Anything that can handle our own fleet is a major exterminatus threat just from orbital bombardment, and I doubt that actual Chaos visitors get the same sort of leeway the Orks and ourselves have. Who knows, we might get another chance to see the defense stations in action...
Given that Valinor has seers of some sort, I would say that any abom domain with the resources to send a major force will also have them. Given that, I'd say that it's fair to bet that the smallest force that might outright attack us will be of a size that it could defeat whatever standard defenses and forces are present on Avernus at the least—fortunately Ridcully's paragon trait means we'd still have a real chance to pull them into fights they can't win. I'd expect a decent chunk of time before even the most well established domains can throw together a force like that at least. If Valinor is typical for an abom domain (and given what exactly the abom is, I doubt that very much deviation happens), just about everyone's going to have half to three quarters of their mobile forces tied up in campaigns even if they're not being pressured.
I do wonder what the planet will do if a giant chaos fleet shows up. Anything that can handle our own fleet is a major exterminatus threat just from orbital bombardment, and I doubt that actual Chaos visitors get the same sort of leeway the Orks and ourselves have. Who knows, we might get another chance to see the defense stations in action...
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Mayhap we could have a Chaos Incursion on Avernus instead. The last one had a real shot at killing Lin.
That said, we've since gotten.. more bullshitter. The UU's psyker population will also be more spread out among the cities, so it likely won't have a -100 malus to defence. Maybe -80.
That said, we've since gotten.. more bullshitter. The UU's psyker population will also be more spread out among the cities, so it likely won't have a -100 malus to defence. Maybe -80.
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