The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%

  • Total voters
    738
I dunno, after myth 20 I got a bit leery of it. It's interesting but it reads like someone trying to put together a single coherent cannon for the entirety of DC.
 
Found something cool in Lexicanum. It's German but that doesn't make it less canon and it cites a Dark Heresy book for all its information.
Pentagrammic Ward – Lexicanum
Lexicanum said:
A Pentagrammic Ward is a barrier that Warp as -Kreaturen demons can penetrate only with great difficulty. They will only by followers of Chaos and the Ordo Malleus used.

The barrier acts in both directions. It is destroyed only when the Pentagrammic Ward is destroyed or when a demon penetrates the barrier with enough force.

General information

Besides the ingredients (such as silver dust, blood, holy ink ...) you need some background knowledge in demonology to construct a Pentagrammic Ward.
A temporary barrier that encompasses a room can be built up in minutes, an entire building takes longer. The barrier loses its strength after a few hours and is very sensitive to attack.

To create a permanent barrier takes twice as long, and must actually be made from the terrain or object in question. They will remain until they physically destroyed or by a demon is imbued with enough force.

A sorcerer, a Pentagrammic Ward use to a demon imprison immediately after the invocation to more easily impose his will. He can also use this power to strengthen his position in negotiations with the Dark Powers.

You can also install a Pentagrammic Ward in a melee weapon. This is especially dangerous for demons because it makes their bodies unstable and weakens their minds. A temporary Pentagrammic Ward on such a weapon is, however, already worn after a fight.
It says that pentagrammic wards are used by Malleus and explain their anti-daemonic properties, while the lexicanum article for hexagrammic wards say they're used by Hereticus and explain their anti-witch properties. I think from that we can say that hexagrammic wards are primarily for witches and pentagrammic wards are primarily for daemons.


@Durin, pentagrammic wards can be made by people with a background in daemonology, takes double of "minutes" to permanently ward a room, and can be installed in melee weapons. Weapons are smaller than rooms so it'll take less time to make pentagrammic melee weapons, so can we have our daemonologist sanctionites mass-produce pentagrammic melee weapons for either military distribution, export, or civilian sale?
 
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@Durin, pentagrammic wards can be made by people with a background in daemonology, takes double of "minutes" to permanently ward a room, and can be installed in melee weapons. Weapons are smaller than rooms so it'll take less time to make pentagrammic melee weapons, so can we have our daemonologist sanctionites mass-produce pentagrammic melee weapons for either military distribution, export, or civilian sale?
I am saying it is a lot harder to make permanent wards then claimed here
 
1. Are our psykers equipped with wards?
2. Is it feasible to equip our psyker hunters and witch hunters with wards?
3. Psyker pass rates increases at these points, yes?
a. Trained Psykers = Untrained Psykers (For each individual power level?)
b. Sanctionites = Untrained Psykers (For each individual power level?)
c. 6*Sanctionites (1 For each dicipline) = Untrained Psykers (For each individual power level?
d. Ditto for Veteran/Elite/Master/Grandmaster
e. What other points are there?
 
1. Are our psykers equipped with wards?
2. Is it feasible to equip our psyker hunters and witch hunters with wards?
3. Psyker pass rates increases at these points, yes?
a. Trained Psykers = Untrained Psykers (For each individual power level?)
b. Sanctionites = Untrained Psykers (For each individual power level?)
c. 6*Sanctionites (1 For each dicipline) = Untrained Psykers (For each individual power level?
d. Ditto for Veteran/Elite/Master/Grandmaster
e. What other points are there?
1. no
2. yes
3a-d correct
3e. certain traits
 
Oh right.

@Durin

In case you forgot, um, the power level and psychic disciplines for our Master Primaris isn't listed in the Telepathica. Also the Total number of Psykers is incorrect. (Should be 719,926?)
 
Surprise Mines
So, was thinking about just how broken warping in on top of a minefield would/could be from a tactical standpoint, as well as how hard it would be to manage. Result below.

Surprise Mines

By the turn of the 42nd millennium, the art of Void defense within the Imperium had reached a stable state. Not, as some claim, as a result of the general stagnation that forever plagued the Imperium, nor due to the preeminence of hereditary naval families in high command, but as a natural outgrowth of a largely unchanging situation. As rediscovery of relevant technology waned and Imperial Void resources stabilized, the Imperial navy found themselves using the same general assets in conflict with the same general foes (Orks, Tyranid, Chaos, Eldar of either stripe, and Necrons being the most common), all of whom rarely deployed different assets or employed different tactics. As a result, relatively optimal tactical and strategic use of ships and other Void assets for a given situation were quickly hit upon, and the extreme cost of creating or replacing ships heavily discouraged further experimentation with deployments and tactics.

Of course, that is not to say that in an empire as large as the Imperium there were no pockets of high command with a bent towards unconventional tactics and willing to take risks to exploit new or rare capabilities. More, these officers would tend to congregate together, either by choice or due to shunning by their more traditional peers. One such pocket at the Fall of the Imperium was located in the Asgard sub-sector, as a result of both the relatively liberal policies (for the time) adopted by Vanaheim's naval garrison and the dumping of less conventional officers by the sector navy. This served them very well in the early years of the Fall, as it allowed their navy to more quickly adapt to both the new technology and capabilities available as well as the dramatically different galaxy in which they operated.

One of the greatest achievements of the naval think-tanks created shortly after it became clear that the treasure trove of technology Avernus had uncovered would require completely rethinking preconceptions was the dynamic placement of minefields.

Use of mines was as old as Void warfare, but they were quickly relegated to the task of area denial. Hiding a minefield of sufficient size and density to cause significant damage to a fleet was a futile endeavor, as their sheer mass would give them away in the void of space, and in battle more traditional armaments were far more effective at destroying enemy ships. However, in area denial they truly shined, as even a relatively light and small minefield would cause massive damage to any escort class ships that attempted to transverse it. Of course, the capital ships required a much larger and denser minefield to keep out, but at the end of the day the point of a minefield was to force an enemy to either take massive (and extremely disproportionate) amounts of damage or find a way to avoid or circumvent the field. Unsurprisingly, almost without exception they would chose to circumvent it.

Of course, history is littered with examples of battles where, for some reason or another, a fleet was forced to travel through a minefield without somehow neutralizing it. Very rarely do said fleets emerge victorious, and the vast majority of said victories are pyrrhic in nature. Naturally, when searching for inspiration, the think-tank took a look at these battles and decided that they'd really like to replicate that if at all possible.

Of course, said replication was easier said than done. High-end stealth technologies found in the ship graveyard of Avernus were considered, but deemed unsatisfactory for wide scale use, as they were unlikely to fool most sensors when present in sufficient numbers to significantly impede an invading force and cost far too much for a disposable asset anyway. While cheaper stealth technology was considered, good naval commanders are notoriously unwilling to enter even a small enemy minefield, which greatly limits the opportunities for exploiting pre-laid fields. More, while it is possible to create minefields over strategic locations that an enemy would have to pass through in order to invade a planet, such minefields are a major hazard to friendly shipping. And while mining the warp-in point of an invading fleet is a nice idea, the sheer volume of space that even the routine warp-in points represent make such deployments economically unfeasible—even more so when the inevitable friendly fire losses to commerce vessels occur.

After analysis and much wistful sighing, the idea of offensive minefield deployment was shelved, with the exception of the deployment of temporary minefields over key orbital bombardment and landing locations. There was a reason such deployments were not a part of Imperial Standard Operating Procedures, and despite the boon improved technology and industry granted the Trust, allowing them to implement plans that were unfeasible for the Imperium, those reasons still held true. It was a real pity, though—Admirals treated hostile minefields as impassible for very good reasons, as the cost in escorts damaged alone could easily decide a battle.

However, during the routine searches through proposed strategies and tactics for dealing with invasions, the use of dynamic minefields was highlighted for review. While neither the economic nor the technical situation was meaningfully different, a new type of asset had shown extreme worth in Naval engagements—specifically, the diviner. While even the advanced warp scanners employed by the Trust were unable to determine an emergence location with confidence, and certainly not with enough time to move a minefield to that location, the analysis had not considered divination as a possible mode of detection. The reviewer, however, had written his thesis on the use of divination in Naval engagements, both in real-time like the assault on Fjol IV and on a strategic scale, like the second invasion of Garkill, and as such had received access to classified information and sources to better estimate the impact divination could have on naval warfare and to determine more efficient uses of psykers attaches in the navy. A back-of-the-envelope calculation (that turned out to be about thirty pages long, and was published in the Riker Island theoretical journals) suggested that calculating the emergence point of a known invasion with enough accuracy and warning to permit the construction of a temporary minefield at the location was feasible—and more, cheap enough that the economic cost was a non-issue.

This novel approach was put to the test in the third invasion of Garkill. Of course, they did not simply place the mines—while alone they might cause enough damage to the escorts to technically more than justify their expense, the confusion warping into a minefield would generate was deemed to be too valuable an opportunity to waste. Ultimately, while the damage caused by the minefield to Garkill's fleet upon emergence was not deemed necessary for the crushing victory the Trust achieved, it was viewed to have significantly reduced both fleet and ground casualties, as the dramatic reduction in the numbers and capabilities of the Orkish escorts significantly increased the attrition rate on the Roks on their approach to Avernus, as well as reducing the traditional Orkish advantage in strike craft numbers during the decisive fleet engagement.
 
High-end stealth technologies found in the ship graveyard of Avernus were considered, but deemed unsatisfactory for wide scale use, as they were unlikely to fool most sensors when present in sufficient numbers to significantly impede an invading force
>Dark Age stealth technology
>Unlikely to fool most sensors

These two things don't go together regardless of the number of stealth assets near each other.
 
might want to rephrase it along the lines of being unsuitable for the task rather than inadequate in general. something like

" High-end stealth technologies found in the ship graveyard of Avernus were considered, but deemed unsatisfactory for wide scale use, as they drew far to much power for use in something as small as a mine"

or something to that effect.
 
>Dark Age stealth technology
>Unlikely to fool most sensors

These two things don't go together regardless of the number of stealth assets near each other.
No he has a point. That's like how it doesn't matter how good a B-2 Spirit bombers stealth tech is, if you put a 1000 planes in the air in the same formation a radar station will pick them up. However unlike here on the ground where you could think that it's a bunch of insects in front of the dish you can't hide a mine field as something else and if it's thick enough or big enough to do anything to a fleet it will be detected at some point. You may have to get much closer than normal but you will find it. Now you might be able to make a fully "dark" mine and make a field of those but if it cost as much for each mine as a Vortex Torpedo or ODP you'd be better off making a ODP that can kill 2 or more escorts with some luck rather than a mine that takes 3 or more to kill just one Escort.
 
That's like how it doesn't matter how good a B-2 Spirit bombers stealth tech is, if you put a 1000 planes in the air in the same formation a radar station will pick them up.
That's a false equivalency. Dark Age tech is good enough that you can indeed have those 1000 planes and not a single one will be picked up. It's OP but that's the Dark Age of Technology in a nutshell and it mustn't be underestimated.

The real limiting factor in this is that presumably, as has been mentioned, are production issues. Just getting a tiny minefield of normal mines takes a year, and it can be expected that stealth mines take far longer to build than normal mines due to the advanced technology involved. Combined with the costs and it's just not cost-effective for something as disposable as mines.

So there. Arguing against stealth mines because it's not cost-effective? That's fine. Arguing against stealth mines because they're not good enough at stealth? Nope.
 
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Yup.

Don't we have stealth battleships and stealth command vessels?
SUDDENLY FLEET certainly sounds like a tactic worthy of the Dark Age. Like, you're just minding your own business and then an entire battlegroup of ships appears out of nowhere and blows everything up before you can fire a single shot.
 
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That's a false equivalency. Dark Age tech is good enough that you can indeed have those 1000 planes and not a single one will be picked up. It's OP but that's the Dark Age of Technology in a nutshell and it mustn't be underestimated.

The real limiting factor in this is that presumably, as has been mentioned, are production issues. Just getting a tiny minefield of normal mines takes a year, and it can be expected that stealth mines take far longer to build than normal mines due to the advanced technology involved. Combined with the costs and it's just not cost-effective for something as disposable as mines.

So there. Arguing against stealth mines because it's not cost-effective? That's fine. Arguing against stealth mines because they're not good enough at stealth? Wrong.
No they're both not cost-effective and not good enough at stealth. Unless you're putting them into an extra-dimensional space pocket where they fall out of right when the fleet is in the middle of it they will find it even if just from the first couple of ships running into the damned things. At which point the rest of the fleet is going to go around it. It's why our stealth ships can sneak up a lot closer than normal on things but you're not going to pull up along side something if only because they'll notice they can't see the shit on the other side of your damned hull.
 
SUDDENLY FLEET certainly sounds like a tactic worthy of the Dark Age. Like, you're just minding your own business and then an entire battlegroup of ships appears out of nowhere and blows everything up before you can fire a single shot.
I'm pretty sure our stuff works like the Normandy.

In that anyone with a window can see us, then again given the distances that doesn't really matter.

or require too much power to be practical for something as small as a mine.
Stealth Armour Plating-This armour plating is around half as tough as modern Imperial starship armour and significantly lighter. Its main benefit is that it is very good at absorbing and containing emissions, making it very useful for stealth ships.

There's an engine as well, but it's designed to reduce emissions making it only 80% as good as an Imperial equivalent, so power isn't an issue really it's special armor.
 
vote locked, can I have a count

Vote Tally : Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) | Page 2449 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.6

[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to ambush - More damage inflicted, all forces can disengage without much trouble
No. of Votes: 35

[X] Deploy all forces to ambush - Most damage inflicted, heavy forces will suffer notable damage when disengaging
No. of Votes: 4

[X] Deploy Light and Medium forces to ambush
No. of Votes: 1

Total No. of Voters: 40
 
Time Fa Fightin
Connecting all the former ships that make up the Deaths Harbinger are a network of tunnels. Some, made up of ships main corridors are large enough for a gargant. Others, made up of air ducts and crevices are small enough only for grots.

Running along one of the smaller ones, is Snig. He is a diminutive green creature, with a small shoota and a dagger hanging from a belt made of suspiciously green leather. He is holding something that can be loosely described as a wrench.

There are other grots, further down the tunnel, camped out in a room inaccessible to there larger, more bellicose compatriots. Here they are safe from the almost omnipresent kicks thrown at them by the Orks, and the minor tribal wars fought for any and all reason across the hulk.

As Snig runs into the Grots township a shudder, larger than the common shipquakes rumbles through the hulk, knocking the diminutive green creatures briefly into the air. Before Snig even lands the grots starts squealing to each other.

"Weez unda fire boyz! Hide!"

"Iz didn' even know weez left demonland!"

"Is it time for fightin', cus if it iz den we'll get kicked less."

The rumbling of distant, constant war fades away from earshot. The grots look at each other, suddenly silent. Snig, who is the smallest, starts to bang his wrench against the thin plassteel wall.

Ding. Ding. Ding. The wall reverberates, it's low ring echoing across the ship.

The grots look to him, and follow his beat.

DANG. DANG. DANG. The room shudders under the beat of grots tools against deck plates.

Several meters below/besides (gravity is complicated in a space hulk) is the camp of Scragbat and his boyz. Upon hearing the pounding coming from the starboard wall, they instantly loose interest in what they are doing, before a Gretchin takes up the beat, smashing his shoota against a wall.

Clang! Clang! Clang! Slowly at first, all the boyz join in, leaving Scragbat the only one not beating the hulk like a drum in the entire bay. He opens his mouth, and with an almost complete lack of a tune starts to sing along to the beat.

"Fifteen Orks on a dead man's hulk
Starin' down the barrel of a big ol' gun
Gruntin' to each uvva through big sharp teef Sayin' this one'll give us some fun."

With the end of the verse, the rest of the green choir take up the tuneless song, filling the bay with their braying, barbaric voices.

"Fourteen orks on a 'umie ship
Killing everyfing that ain't not green
Gruntin' to each uvva frew big sharp teef Sayin' times are gettin' lean!"

All across the hulk this scene repeats, different nobs leading different songs, all to a single beat echoing across the moonsized hulk.

Far to the down/up/inwards of Scragbats boyz, big mek Dagsnatch has had an idea. He's rapidly climbing the side of his Gargant, "Ain't dat a Petty flower" to put his idea into motion.

Some boyz had mocked him for the name before. Said it wasn't Orky. In return he'd simply said "ain't dat a pretty flower". The boyz had looked down, trying to see it. He krumped them and ran off laughing about how he'd made a "stelf gargant", and how he "wuz the kunninest, orkiest Ork eva".

As he clambers into the gargants cab, made from a looted sentinel with armour on it, the thundering beat grows even louder.

BAANG! BAANG! BAANG!

His hands head to the controls, and with a laugh he raises the Ain't dat a pretty flower's foot.

CRAAAAASSSH! CRAAAAASSSH! CRAAAAASSSH!

Several kilometres forward of this, the warboss Garkill the Konquerer sits on his gargantuan throne, made out of the hull of a rhino APC. Well over three meters tall seated, he stars out through his viewscreens at the battle in front of him. Mostly his boyz knew what to do instinctively, but every now and then he has to yell at them to do something un-orky.

The crashing beat shudders into his chamber, getting louder and louder with every pound against the ships hull, as more Orks join in to it. He can't help himself from tapping along with a foot long finger against the side of his rhinothrone.

"DA BOYZ ARE GEDDIN' REAL EXCITED FUR DIS EY? FEEL BAD MAKIN' DEM WAIT FOR DA GOOD FIGHTS?

He take a grot from a cage, and places it into a pipe receding into the floor. "NAH, YOU LIDDLE FELLA GOTTA TELL WHOEVERZ DAH ENGIN BOSS RIGHTS NOW I WANTZ TAH GO FASTA. DEN AFTER YOU TELL DEM, TELL DA SECOND BIGGEST MEK THERE TOO. ENGIN BOSSES TEND NOT TAH SURVIVE SPEEDIN UP!"

With this, he takes a red hot brand and forces his personal seal onto the screaming grots forhead, pokes the grot further into the pipe, and blows into it, sending the messenger deep into the bowels of the hulk.

Soon he feels a shudder larger than the beating heart of the horde, or the comparitivly gentle pop of mines against his hull. He presses a button, and a viewscreen switches to an image of the deaths harbinger. Flickering explosions burst from the hull, and a second viewscreen bursts on to show an Ork covered head to toe in deep black soot.

"Weez Ready Boss!"

Garkills massive jaw creeps into a grin, his gargantuan teeth glinting in the gloom of his bridge. He loves this bit. He flips open a panel, on his tank/armrest, revealing a big red button.

"HOLD ONTA YA HATS BOYZ. WEEZ GOIN TA WAAAAAAAAAAAAGHH!

All at once a thousand engines light, all over the back of the hulk, pushing it through the minefield at the speed of an escort, the ship looking like a planetscale candle.

"FOLLOW ME BOYZ! ITS TIME FA FIGHTIN AND KILLIN!"
 
No they're both not cost-effective and not good enough at stealth. Unless you're putting them into an extra-dimensional space pocket where they fall out of right when the fleet is in the middle of it they will find it even if just from the first couple of ships running into the damned things. At which point the rest of the fleet is going to go around it. It's why our stealth ships can sneak up a lot closer than normal on things but you're not going to pull up along side something if only because they'll notice they can't see the shit on the other side of your damned hull.

40k dude, leave logic at the door. I mean the basic idea of a minefield in space is already kind of ridiculous.
 
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