Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Actually nobody knows how many there are.
There are still 12 great companies, but each vary wildly in size so their true number is very vague.
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
There are still 12 great companies, but each vary wildly in size so their true number is very vague.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. yes
2. a yes
b yes
c yes
3. that it is a result of the very careful inbreeding that they have to do due to limited gene-pool
HanEmpire
Delicious
1) does the Mechanicus think this is fixable with the new gene therapy tech that Niflheim gave us?
2) how do the Navigator houses feel about the Mechanicus tending to their inbreeding problem?
Skewfiend
The Corruptor of All Things
- Location
- The Darkness Behind Your Eyes
Well, yeah, how do you think they got away with being massively over-strength?
The exact numbers aren't there, and probably vary over time with recruitment and attrition, but Great Companies are, in the normal course of events, larger than a company, so whatever their numbers, they are well over 1000 regular 'rines.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
1. no
2. they are very averse to it, on the other hand once you make contact with new navigators from outside the Trust they will start being able to breed faster
That really shouldn't matter with the tech available.
If nothing else you can just mass clone them. We have a few hundred Navigators, clone each a hundred times and work from there. Should make a fully viable population within five generations.
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
cloning psykers tends to lead to problems
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Its a warp gene and cloning psykers always ends badly.
Hell cloning in 40K is rarely good.
And even if it wasn't making the same people over and over again is not going to solve the issue either.
That is what the Psyker hunters are for
Even if they have 99% failure rate they are still showing a massive return on investment.
by this story's canon a significant chunk of the AdMech as clones. And one of the Trust Worlds either did or still does mass cloning and gene tampering.Why would they be the same people? Cloning just means using the same genetics, not replicating a fully formed person down to their neurons.
Reproduction is semi random. Thus more combination, even of the same starting genes, give a wider range of results. Example: Person A and person B have two a children, each of whom has a unique genetic code despite having the same parents. Clones A1-100 and clones B1-100 have two hundred children, each of whom still has their own unique genetic code despite their genetically identical parents.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
More like frequent demon possession, warp mutations and 100% lack of stability.That is what the Psyker hunters are for
Even if they have 99% failure rate they are still showing a massive return on investment.
I said usually.
Its far from a constant thing.
Clones in 40K tend to either be more like blanks, or have terrible luck.
Real life cloning works like this you take an egg from a woman and you take a stem cell from *insert gender here*
You take the nucleus from the Stem Cell and stick it in the egg cell after removing the nucleus of the egg cell, give it a sharp shock and let it multiply.
This makes a GENETICALLY perfect copy.
It won't be exact of course things like height will code differently, but the same problems are still present.
Yes, but that doesn't work for Navigator's, the gene we want is recessive.
Let me put this another way in genetics there are two major alleles Dominant and recessive.
Dominant alleles will always express themselves if paired with a recessive allele, regardless of position.
Recessive will never express themselves unless paired with another recessive gene of the same type, this is why many genetic diseases cannot be found they rely on two partners both having the recessive allele for, lets use the classic example, Cystic Fibrosis.
That's why there's inbreeding to begin with a navigator can have sex with as many people as they want, but only when they have children with another navigator can the gene coding for the navigator gene be activated.
Since they have a small population that means a limited pool of genes and more and more inbreeding.
Ask the Hapsburg's how that went.
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Still sounds like Psyker hunters are the answer.
I don't see what any of that has to do with them being the same people. A person is not their genetic code.
I am well aware of how genes work. It says so on my biology A-level certificate.
What you are failing to consider is that they already have a viable interbreeding plan. They have enough members and good enough tech to keep the population growing slowly rather than degrading into inbred induced non-viability.
What cloning would allow is for multiple instances of that breeding plan to be run simultaneously. Due to the randomness of biological reproduction it will be safe to merge the multiple instances back together into a single breeding population after a few generations.
Having to deal with frequent demonic possession and chronic bad luck would be problematic but as I said they don't need a high success rate to be making a worthwhile return on investment.
The only potentially insurmountable issue I can foresee is the Navigators refusing to be cloned. They are a bunch of self-entitled nobles after all.
- Location
- Australia
It's not a recessive gene.
There might be hundreds of requisite genes that ALL have to be present, so they are extremely unlikely even if half-navigators have offspring together, whereas some of them might be Navigators if it was one recessive gene.
ArchAIngel
Sorcerer Supreme.
- Location
- Right behind you.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Well it was a good discussion I thought.
Lots of good idea's being thrown out by great people and every available angle being examined.
Quick suggestion make it Ultan (not Ultuan) and Varquez, he's the other Ordo Malleus Inquisitor Lord.
Assuming it was called on time Enjou's plan wins out. We're giving the Smurfs Macragge 2.0
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
Honestly if we get another chapter, say the Blood Dragons, (very unlikely) I want to stick them there too.
Make it a multicultural chapter world.
It wouldn't be our choice anymore since the Ultramarines are now going to be rulers of the planet - we couldn't just stick another Chapter there without their permission.
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
I said that's what I want now what I think would happen.
Valkur
The True Valkyria, Valkur!
- Location
- Fólkvangr
Nice way to not make it sound like we just gave them alot of political power...SPACE MARINES!! *SHAKES FIST VIOLENTLY*
If we do ever get another chapter or company of a different chapter, we can just give them a Fortress Monastary on one of the planets. Or just ask the Ultramarines very nicely.
We kinda just did and I got what I voted for. Making sure he stays around (and keeps the Ultramarine Brand) is worth giving the Astartes this much power.
Do you plan to try to have them keep operating as Ultramarines?
Doomed Wombat
Let's go Darling!
- Location
- Dancing on wires!
It was that or have a real risk of them wondering off with our stuff.
Apparently they will have to rebrand.
By how much I am unsure.
I just really really hope they don't. Having the Trust's marines being the literal poster boys of the old Imperium is worth so much.