The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 592 80.3%
  • No

    Votes: 145 19.7%

  • Total voters
    737
@durin

1)since our helltroopers never even fired their archeotech weapons at an orc, can those weapons be returned to storage?

2)parnell seemed to think that we could have taken 3 to 1 odds in orks minus any space hulks and freyr seemed to think that the 1 to 1.5-2 casualtied were bettrr than expected. So what kind of casualties did he expect?
2a)how differently would the battle have been without the hulks firepower?
 
Because that is one of the primary things the abomination preys on and something we must avoid at all costs.

Making them scape goats is also dumb, it serves no purpose, we're already the crazy xenos culoders to the majority of the Nine Worlds if we do so it only makes us seem weak and foolish.

I disagree with your assessment, IMO it would make us seem more willing to take responsibility for the dangerous, untrustworthy xenos.
 
The Imperium position of Purge all the Xenos they could is well deserved since after the Golden/Dark Age of Tech and the descent of the Age of Strife, all the varied Xenos allies just went and conquered their now weak Human allies, and thus when the Emperor came back and saw this he started the Purging tradition.

We can't afford that now since uniting all of Humanity again is impossible until something like the Astronomicon is relighted. So we have more of a live and let live approach for now. We instead have to move for a hidden watch on the Quartok- verify everything they tell us and use them since becoming true allies is way beyond anything we can do.
 
Generally, in order to have a scapegoat you need to have something you want to blame them for.
I disagree with your assessment, IMO it would make us seem more willing to take responsibility for the dangerous, untrustworthy xenos.
Something viable like... I dunno.

What have the Quartok done besides be exemplary in their adherence to the treaty we signed and never acted outside the deal we made worked with us gave us access to their government and generally been an incredible example of what a protectorate should be.

CAUSE THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG.

I applaud them for reverse engineering our stuff and then telling us, they could have easily hidden it, but no they didn't.

They have been exemplars of honesty.
 
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Something viable like... I dunno.

What have the Quartok done besides be exemplary in their adherence to the treaty we signed and never acted outside the deal we made worked with us gave us access to their government and generally been an incredible example of what a protectorate should be.

CAUSE THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG.

I applaud them for reverse engineering our stuff and then telling us, they could have easily hidden it, but no they didn't.

They have been exemplars of honesty.

They would not be hiding the reverse engineering if they did not know it would cause strife.
 
I'm not arguing it is the best. My position is that it should be on the table and weighed carefully because they make such convenient scapegoats. Instead everyone is ignoring and making dire predictions about the Abomination, not to mention calling it immoral, while the PC is worshiping Emps no less.
Then why didn't you frame your argument as being hypothetical from the very start, rather than just calling for xenocide? And point out your position as being hypothetical when pointed out how unfitting it is for the current situation?
Can't we just purge the Quartok?
This was an absolutely stupid debate.
 
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@durin

1)since our helltroopers never even fired their archeotech weapons at an orc, can those weapons be returned to storage?

2)parnell seemed to think that we could have taken 3 to 1 odds in orks minus any space hulks and freyr seemed to think that the 1 to 1.5-2 casualtied were bettrr than expected. So what kind of casualties did he expect?
2a)how differently would the battle have been without the hulks firepower?
1. yes
2. he was expecting 1-1.5 casualties due to the Space Hulks
2a. you would have slaughtered them with half the losses
 
To Think Like the Enemy
Omake: To Think Like the Enemy

If there's anything that the Imperium has learned about Orks, it's that nothing they use makes any real sense. There are dozens of reports on Orks somehow firing guns with empty ammunition canisters, or driving oversized tanks that fall apart the moment someone who isn't an Ork tries to take the wheel. The point is that Orks are basically magical bullshit, and not in the way that Psykers are magical bullshit. This is the kind of magical bullshit that drives men genuinely mad, not 'infested by demons' mad.

Which is, perhaps, why these ships are so damn hard to kill.

Captain Wilhelm Ramius contemplated this and many other thoughts, slumped as he always did in the seat of power that was his chair. The sounds of the battleship Titan hummed all around him, as familiar a noise as his own heartbeat- he barely even heard it, anymore. And yet the energy in the room was palpable. Discipline held the fury of battle at bay, and early successes against the Orkish menace seemed to have bred a sense of confidence amongst his bridge crew. But the Captain knows better than to allow zeal and overconfidence to overwhelm good sense.


The last seven bombardments had expected results against the three greatest Ork vessels on the battlefield. That is: middling to barely any at all. The monstrosities were simply too large. Too ramshackle in their construction; any points of weakness that they might find seemed to be hidden behind layer upon layer of twisted metal and half-rotted Tyranid carapace. It's like the foulest kind of onion imaginable. Or perhaps like a walnut, except the outer shell is made of Adamantium and the core is nothing but an enormous green bogey.

Unpleasant, of that there is no doubt.

There had to be some way to crack it. Some secret hidden in the incredible mess of spikes, space rocks and poorly-drawn facsimiles of heathen, Orkish gods. Captain Ramius sat, and he thought. As another bombardment began, he felt himself give the order to fire, though he did not think to give the order. Training. Discipline. Those sorts of things just came naturally to a man in his command.

An order is given. Retreat. Fire. Retreat. Fire. Always the same cycle. It was routine by this point. His crew was a well-oiled machine; they knew what they were doing, and he had faith in their abilities. There wasn't much thought required in it at this point-- which gave him time to consider other matters.

Other, potentially dangerous matters.

Ramius stared at the enormity before him. A monster the size of several command battleships bootstrapped together. Even the smallest one was larger than almost any ship he had ever laid eyes upon. And all of them a chaotic hodgepodge- a construction that discerning nodes to any individual system was nearly impossible. But still, the thinking man in him wanted to find a weakness; it was sure that one existed, that one needed only to FIND it.

He knew very few things about Orkish construction. He knew they were durable, he knew they were damn-near unkillable. He knew that every single attack on a subsystem that looked important only led to disappointment and some dented armor. Of course they would protect the most important parts of the ship, the thinking man thought, everyone knows that the first things that need to go are the weapons, the engines. Protecting them only made sense.



'So,' a totally different part of his psyche answered, 'Why not try to attack some place that seemed… unimportant?'

Wilhelm tapped at his armrest. Tap. Tap tap.

Could it be that simple?

The order for the next bombardment came like clockwork. He knew the crew would do their duty, that firing solutions were already being lined up. But… that nagging feeling wouldn't leave him. And so he raised a hand, "Belay that," he said, fully himself once more, "Adjust firing arcs to target… that bit there." He indicated with an immaculately gloved hand towards a bit that he idly recognized as the port side of a Universe-Class Mass Conveyer.

His second gave the captain a look like he had grown a second head. Clearly he hadn't, really, or someone would have shot him by now. "Sir, with all due respect, the auspex indicates that that location does not appear to have any significance—"

"Call it a hunch, number two," Wilhelm said with a mild smirk. "Only a madman keeps trying the same solution when he knows it won't work. You know, I have been considering scripture as of late. Are we not taught that sometimes tradition must be tested? Perhaps it's time for… a small change. For at least one bombardment."

The second stared at his captain a moment longer, before turning to his gunnery crew, "You heard the man. All available guns, open fire at point alpha-three-six-two on my mark."

"Mark."

The ship rocked with the thunderclap heartbeat of gunfire. He felt it reverberate in his bones with a vigorous, bassy note. Either he's right, and this will actually do something for a change, or he's wrong and someone on the chain of command will be mildly nonplussed that the Titan had erred in its firing solution.

In either case, Captain Wilhelm Ramius of the Titan felt that, at the very least, his soul was just a little bit safer from something far worse than a mere Ork. In the end, isn't that what matters most?

And who knows? A little madness might just do the trick.

Edit: Damn! A bit too late, I guess. That's what happens when my internet goes out for a bit, I forget to update the page. Ah well!
 
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Yeah, the fact that they reverse engineered our stuff was kind of our fault, as we never told them they shouldn't.

Purging them for that reason is basically admitting that we were huge idiots in letting them live in the first place.I mean, we spend a lot of effort to convince the rest of the Pact to let us keep them, and now we're going to purge them because we simply forgot to mention a rule that we apparently hold so sacrosant that we're willing to commit xenocide because of it.

I highly doubt the Pact would hold us is in high opinion after that. Not because we killed the Xenos, but because we were so negligent in keeping care of them that we forgot to inform them of even the most basic do's and don'ts.
 
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To the conservatives, the fact that they have reverse engineered human tech.
To the conservatives who we are trying to convert.

The stuff works it doesn't blow up its proof it can be done and further more we never said they couldn't they have done nothing wrong, but everytime this comes up your first response is "We must throw them under the bus."

When we asked. Please avoid name-calling.
Fair enough I apologise, but that's the point, when we asked, the Quartok's are by the treaty an independant nation, they were under no obligation, but they told us anyway.

Notice the question mark in that first post. I was proposing a potential course of action.
One you have been advocating for a very long time.
 
@durin double question.
1)Do our fleets recive the same medals as we award to ground armies? Presumably 1 ship = 1 regiment. If not what do we give them?
2) Who will be getting medals?
 
I'd accept that answer if you'd clarified your position as being hypothetical/potential when we presented counterarguments telling you how unfitting it was to the current situation.

There seems to be a miscommunication of some sort and for that I apologize. Seeing as this is not active vote with [] purge the Xenos and [] do not purge the Xenos options I assumed everyone understood this was a hypothetical discussion.
 
There seems to be a miscommunication of some sort and for that I apologize. Seeing as this is not active vote with [] purge the Xenos and [] do not purge the Xenos options I assumed everyone understood this was a hypothetical discussion.
I agree, but in my case it is more: "no hard feelings, it's just business"

I believe this might have something to do with it, rather illuminating isn't it?
 
SOO, @durin did this end a bit quicker than you expected?

Is it even really over? I'm waiting for six more space hulks to jump out of the immaterium right next to us in the next two turns.

Edit: Also, I want to imagine that, if this really is over, all those poor Orks on Avernus are mustering for nothing. No WAAAAGH is coming. Poor Orks. :(
 
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