Out of curiosity; what are Avernite Military traditions if I may ask?
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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up
- Thread starter Durin
- Start date
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
large amounts of tactical training at all levels, shifting chains of command depending on expertise and who is in a good position, following even stupid-seeming orders but only after questioning them. Basically there is an expectation that every Avernite soldier from veteran sergeants up is a skilled leader and should be treated as such
also Avernite tactics include the assumption that the soldiers are Avernites and regularly expect them to pull of feats that ordinal soldiers who die attempting
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
they are treated as Grenadiers and have a separate part in the command structure that they share with the other Grenadiers, mostly the Chosen of Midgard
- Location
- Berkeley
Okay, so how about this:
[X] Plan Alfheim Ork Control
Set up a meeting to ask Alfheim and other interested parties if they would like to set up a program so that other members of the Trust could send soldiers to help Alfheim with Ork numbers. Bill it as a way to:
[X] Plan Alfheim Ork Control
Set up a meeting to ask Alfheim and other interested parties if they would like to set up a program so that other members of the Trust could send soldiers to help Alfheim with Ork numbers. Bill it as a way to:
- Help keep the population of Orks on Alfheim under control--a task that needs to be done anyway
- Give units and commanders real-world experience against Orkish units and tactics--which according to intelligence reports from the Dark Eldar are likely to be a significant local problem.
- Improve our abilities to coordinate with units from other worlds and gain experience with which tactics are most effective under real-world conditions
- Give more units combat experience during times of (relative) peace
This bring up an interesting question, what are some of the most prominent problems that pop up when working with Avernus forces?
It feels like there are significant issues with working alongside regiments that are frankly from a very ridiculous world and have a very strange mindset on just about everything. I figure there are plenty of clashes.
Last edited:
- Location
- his hidden lair
So, a super flexible and independent chain of command that only really works due to the levels of education and training all Avernite soldiers have? Massive amounts of redundancies among the officers to prevent head capping? Shifting commanders depending on who has expertise on the current engagement? Like, that's pretty damn impressive- more so than the simple martial prowess of our soldiers even. That level of responsiveness and reactivity is absolutely lethal on a battlefield.
- Location
- Berkeley
I'd say that education, training, experience, and technology are all needed for it. I mean, we've been effectively skirmishing with the environment for the past seventy-odd years in addition to the ridiculous training and educational levels we've got, and on top of that I doubt a flexible command chain would be practical without the advanced communications gear we have.
[X] Meet with King Zaren of Alfheim: Suggest the idea of a training facility on Alfheim dedicated to training Imperial Trust Guardsmen in Ork fighting. Serving both the purpose of training in fighting one of the two greatest xenos threats, and also helping Alfheim control the Ork threat. What is his feedback on the idea? If favorable, how would he propose presenting it to the rest of the Imperial Trust?
[X] Meet with King Zaren of Alfheim: Suggest the idea of a training facility on Alfheim dedicated to training Imperial Trust Guardsmen in Ork fighting. Serving both the purpose of training in fighting one of the two greatest xenos threats, and also helping Alfheim control the Ork threat. What is his feedback on the idea? If favorable, how would he propose presenting it to the rest of the Imperial Trust?
@durin I think we would all benefit from some greater feedback on fleet ideas. I think we'd be better off having one main fleet idea to present. Can we just say that we presented the following ideas to Admiral Parnell and our Navy staffers, and got feedback before presenting a plan to the Fleet meeting?
The following attributes are desired:
I: Avernus should have fleet that focuses on Planetary Assault.
Questions to answer about each proposal:
1: How effective would they be at the actual bombardment and landing of troops?
2: How effective would they be at getting through enemy defenses? (Stationary, vs defense monitors, vs enemy fleets).
3: How likely would they be to take damage in successful operations? (What kind of damage? Repairs needed versus loss of ships, etc.)
4: What would be the best match up for such a fleet (assuming equal sized fleets)?
5: What would be the worst match up for such a fleet?
6: Any adjustments suggested for each fleet proposal?
7: What is the best aspect of the proposal?
8: What is the worst aspect of the proposal?
9: Are there any notable features of a proposal that are particularly attractive and that should be incorporated into whatever plan we go with?
Annual Upkeep:
Adv. Material: 191k AM
Exotics: 1,850 EM
II: Assuming a budget of 1,500 to 2,000 Exotic Material upkeep:
1: Is there a significantly different proposal that the Navy Staff would like to make (in broad strokes)
2: Is there a proposal above that is better for this level of upkeep? (they are all currently inside this budget)
3: Adjustments that ought to be made to the preferred plan while staying inside this budget?
III: Assuming a budget of 1,000 to 1,500 Exotic Material upkeep:
1: Is there a significantly different proposal that the Navy Staff would like to make (in broad strokes)
2: Is there a proposal above that is better for this level of upkeep? (they are all currently above this budget)
3: Adjustments that ought to be made to bring the preferred plan inside this budget?
The following attributes are desired:
I: Avernus should have fleet that focuses on Planetary Assault.
Questions to answer about each proposal:
1: How effective would they be at the actual bombardment and landing of troops?
2: How effective would they be at getting through enemy defenses? (Stationary, vs defense monitors, vs enemy fleets).
3: How likely would they be to take damage in successful operations? (What kind of damage? Repairs needed versus loss of ships, etc.)
4: What would be the best match up for such a fleet (assuming equal sized fleets)?
5: What would be the worst match up for such a fleet?
6: Any adjustments suggested for each fleet proposal?
7: What is the best aspect of the proposal?
8: What is the worst aspect of the proposal?
9: Are there any notable features of a proposal that are particularly attractive and that should be incorporated into whatever plan we go with?
1x Einherjar Class Command Battleship
1 Champion Class Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Legate Class Battleship
2 Pope Class Grand Carrier
3 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser
1 Templar Class Heavy Carrier
2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser
1 Disciple Class Carrier
2 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
2 Husser Class Battlecruiser
15 Knight Class Cruiser
10 Cataphract Cruiser
10 Kshatriya Cruiser
5 Samurai Cruiser
5 Corsair Class Cruiser
5 Poacher Class Cruiser
5 Cossack Class Cruiser
2 Acolyte Class Carrier
5 Bolas Class Cruiser
30 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
10 Monk Class Escort Carrier
25 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier
150 Squire Class Frigate
350 Soldier Class Destroyer
50 Page Class Frigate
75 Privateer Class Raider
50 Legionnaire Class Destroyer
10 Descent Class Destroyer
Stealth insertion unit
1 Night Class Battlecruiser
5 Fog Class Light Cruiser
10 Shadow Class Destroyer
Annual Upkeep:
Adv. Material: ????
Exotics: ????
1 Champion Class Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Legate Class Battleship
2 Pope Class Grand Carrier
3 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser
1 Templar Class Heavy Carrier
2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser
1 Disciple Class Carrier
2 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
2 Husser Class Battlecruiser
15 Knight Class Cruiser
10 Cataphract Cruiser
10 Kshatriya Cruiser
5 Samurai Cruiser
5 Corsair Class Cruiser
5 Poacher Class Cruiser
5 Cossack Class Cruiser
2 Acolyte Class Carrier
5 Bolas Class Cruiser
30 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser
10 Monk Class Escort Carrier
25 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier
150 Squire Class Frigate
350 Soldier Class Destroyer
50 Page Class Frigate
75 Privateer Class Raider
50 Legionnaire Class Destroyer
10 Descent Class Destroyer
Stealth insertion unit
1 Night Class Battlecruiser
5 Fog Class Light Cruiser
10 Shadow Class Destroyer
Annual Upkeep:
Adv. Material: ????
Exotics: ????
1x Einherjar Class Command Battleship
1 Berserker Class Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Champion Class Battleship
1 Saint Class Carrier Battleship (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Templar Class Heavy Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Marauder Class Battlecruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
8x Knight Class Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Cataphract Cruiser
4x Kshatriya Cruiser
4x Samurai Cruiser
8x Bishop Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Bolas Cruiser
50x Squire Class Frigate
40x Page Class Frigate
100x Soldier Class Destroyer
50x Legionnaire Class Destroyer
20x New Class Haywire Escorts
50x Descent Class Destroyer (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
The note (Planetary Assault Auxiliary) means that when we have a Planetary Assault mission they are noted as being able to support the actual assault on the planet, either as a carrier, or through bombardment. But on other occasions could have weapons load outs to support the Brute Squad.
Against a general or long range harassment fleet the Brute Squad would advance on the planet forcing the enemy to come to grips with them, or abandon the planet. (Similar to what the Necrons did to us). Meanwhile the Sniper teams would guard the flanks.
Against a Brute force type fleet (or stationary defenses), the Brute Squad would screen the Sniper teams while they soften up the enemy, and then finish off the enemy afterwards.
1 Berserker Class Battleship
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Champion Class Battleship
1 Saint Class Carrier Battleship (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Paladin Class Heavy Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Templar Class Heavy Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
2x Marauder Class Battlecruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
8x Knight Class Cruiser (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Cataphract Cruiser
4x Kshatriya Cruiser
4x Samurai Cruiser
8x Bishop Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
4x Bolas Cruiser
50x Squire Class Frigate
40x Page Class Frigate
100x Soldier Class Destroyer
50x Legionnaire Class Destroyer
20x New Class Haywire Escorts
50x Descent Class Destroyer (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
The note (Planetary Assault Auxiliary) means that when we have a Planetary Assault mission they are noted as being able to support the actual assault on the planet, either as a carrier, or through bombardment. But on other occasions could have weapons load outs to support the Brute Squad.
Against a general or long range harassment fleet the Brute Squad would advance on the planet forcing the enemy to come to grips with them, or abandon the planet. (Similar to what the Necrons did to us). Meanwhile the Sniper teams would guard the flanks.
Against a Brute force type fleet (or stationary defenses), the Brute Squad would screen the Sniper teams while they soften up the enemy, and then finish off the enemy afterwards.
1x Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
1x Husser Class Battlecruiser
3x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
3x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
4x Disciple Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
12 Corsair Class Cruiser
4 Poacher Class Cruiser
4 Cossack Class Cruiser
4 Acolyte Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
20 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
20 Adherent Class Light Carrier
100x Soldier Class Destroyer (consider replacing with a new class of fast basic destroyer?)
100x Privateer Class Raider
40x New Escort Class of fast screening frigate (Like the Squire, but with speed to keep up).
1x Husser Class Battlecruiser
3x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
3x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
4x Disciple Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
12 Corsair Class Cruiser
4 Poacher Class Cruiser
4 Cossack Class Cruiser
4 Acolyte Class Carrier (Planetary Assault Auxiliary)
20 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
20 Adherent Class Light Carrier
100x Soldier Class Destroyer (consider replacing with a new class of fast basic destroyer?)
100x Privateer Class Raider
40x New Escort Class of fast screening frigate (Like the Squire, but with speed to keep up).
Note that during a fleet engagement these would likely be organized into four squads:
Three squads would consist of:
1x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
1x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
1x Disciple Class Carrier
3 Corsair Class Cruiser
1 Poacher Class Cruiser
1 Cossack Class Cruiser
1 Acolyte Class Carrier
3 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier
20x Soldier Class Destroyer
20x Privateer Class Raider
10x New Escort Class of fast screening frigate
Against a standard fleet or a long range harassment fleet defending a planet, these teams would be guarding the flanks of the advancing Brute Squad, with the Spinal Grav Accelerators sniping capital ships, while the Nova Cannons target escort packs. Probably organized in a triangle formation on three flanks of the Brute Squad.
Against a short range Brute Force fleet (or stationary defenses) these teams would take up position behind a screening force of the Brute Squad and begin picking off the enemy ships/defenses.
While one squad would consist of:
1x Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
1x Husser Class Battlecruiser
1x Disciple Class Carrier
3 Corsair Class Cruiser
1 Poacher Class Cruiser
1 Cossack Class Cruiser
1 Acolyte Class Carrier
11 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier
40x Soldier Class Destroyer
40x Privateer Class Raider
10x New Escort Class of fast screening frigate
Against a standard fleet or a long range harassment fleet this group would likely be kept as the rear guard or reserve. To quickly reinforce any flank that came under significant attack.
Against a short range Brute Force fleet (or stationary defenses) this team would probably take point position. Launching a wave of torpedoes to soften up the enemy, and then falling back behind the Brute Squad.
Three squads would consist of:
1x New Battlecruiser Class with Spinal Grav Accelerators
1x New Battlecruiser Class with Nova Cannons
1x Disciple Class Carrier
3 Corsair Class Cruiser
1 Poacher Class Cruiser
1 Cossack Class Cruiser
1 Acolyte Class Carrier
3 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier
20x Soldier Class Destroyer
20x Privateer Class Raider
10x New Escort Class of fast screening frigate
Against a standard fleet or a long range harassment fleet defending a planet, these teams would be guarding the flanks of the advancing Brute Squad, with the Spinal Grav Accelerators sniping capital ships, while the Nova Cannons target escort packs. Probably organized in a triangle formation on three flanks of the Brute Squad.
Against a short range Brute Force fleet (or stationary defenses) these teams would take up position behind a screening force of the Brute Squad and begin picking off the enemy ships/defenses.
While one squad would consist of:
1x Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
1x Husser Class Battlecruiser
1x Disciple Class Carrier
3 Corsair Class Cruiser
1 Poacher Class Cruiser
1 Cossack Class Cruiser
1 Acolyte Class Carrier
11 Buccaneer Class Light Cruiser
5 Adherent Class Light Carrier
40x Soldier Class Destroyer
40x Privateer Class Raider
10x New Escort Class of fast screening frigate
Against a standard fleet or a long range harassment fleet this group would likely be kept as the rear guard or reserve. To quickly reinforce any flank that came under significant attack.
Against a short range Brute Force fleet (or stationary defenses) this team would probably take point position. Launching a wave of torpedoes to soften up the enemy, and then falling back behind the Brute Squad.
1x Night Class Battlecruiser (Stealth)
8x Fog Class Light Cruiser (Stealth) (Would have to build, no hulks)
30x Shadow Class Destroyer (Stealth)
Purpose is to essentially provide a scouting group that could also participate as long range harassment during larger battles. Potentially flanking the enemy.
8x Fog Class Light Cruiser (Stealth) (Would have to build, no hulks)
30x Shadow Class Destroyer (Stealth)
Purpose is to essentially provide a scouting group that could also participate as long range harassment during larger battles. Potentially flanking the enemy.
Annual Upkeep:
Adv. Material: 191k AM
Exotics: 1,850 EM
1 Hero Class Battleship
1 Mongol Class Fast Battleship
2 Scots Class Grand Cruiser
2 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser
4 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
6 Marauder Class Battlecruiser
4 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
28 Warrior Class Cruiser
6 Praetorian Class Cruiser
4 Poacher Class Cruiser (because we don't have fast cruiser yet)
4 Corsair Class Cruiser (because we don't have fast cruiser yet)
8 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser (light cruiser)
20 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser)
76 Squire Class Frigate
76 Page Class Frigate
88 Legionnaire Class Destroyers
376 Soldier Class Destroyer
64 Privateer Class Raider (fast escort)
24 Descent Class Destroyer (specialist: atmospheric flight)
Annual Upkeep:
Adv. Material: 165,910
Exotics: 1708.4
1 Mongol Class Fast Battleship
2 Scots Class Grand Cruiser
2 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser
4 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser
2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser
6 Marauder Class Battlecruiser
4 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser
28 Warrior Class Cruiser
6 Praetorian Class Cruiser
4 Poacher Class Cruiser (because we don't have fast cruiser yet)
4 Corsair Class Cruiser (because we don't have fast cruiser yet)
8 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser (light cruiser)
20 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser)
76 Squire Class Frigate
76 Page Class Frigate
88 Legionnaire Class Destroyers
376 Soldier Class Destroyer
64 Privateer Class Raider (fast escort)
24 Descent Class Destroyer (specialist: atmospheric flight)
I. Centered around Einherjar Class Command Battleship (medium speed, very heavy armor, short range).
I am against relying on on the companies of the other BS to defend the Einherjar. For that reason I decided to place a 50% (16*1,5=24) greater number of cruiser at its direct support and defence than the BS have. Because they have to relay on the other ships to fight at long range there are no carrier in this group.
1. 2 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
2. 2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored, short range)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
3. 12 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (12*8) 96 Escort among them
a. 48 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 12 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 12 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
d. 24 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
4. 8 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser (light cruiser, medium speed, heavy point defence)
they get (8*0.5*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
b. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
c. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
II. Hero Class Battleship (medium speed, powerful lances and super lances)
The Hero and its group are direct support for the Einherjar.
1. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
2. 8 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (8*8) 64 Escort among them
a. 32 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 16 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
3. 8 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (8*0.5*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
III. Mongol Class Fast Battleship (fast speed, long raged powerful lances, including two superlances)
The group to fight at long ranges and react fast. Can use medium speed escorts as they are fast enough to keep up with fast BS and Battlecruiser.
1. 4 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, long range lances)
they get (4*2*8) 64 Escort among them
a. 32 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 32 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
2. 4 Poacher Class Cruiser (fast speed, long range lances)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
3. 4 Corsair Class Cruiser (fast speed, long range)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
IV. 2 Scots Class Grand Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored, lances)
This is the first part of the cruiser force. Two GC add up to roughly one BS
1. 1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (1*2*8) 16 Escort among them
a. 8 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 4 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 4 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
2. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
3. 3 Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
they get (3*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 24 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
4. 4 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
5. 6 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (6*0.5*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 12 Descent Class Destroyer (medium speed, cable of atmospheric flight and close air support)
b. 12 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
V. 2 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
This is the second part of the cruiser force.
1. 1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (1*2*8) 16 Escort among them
a. 8 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 4 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 4 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
2. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
3. 3 Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
they get (3*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 24 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
4. 4 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
5. 6 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (6*0.5*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 12 Descent Class Destroyer (medium speed, cable of atmospheric flight and close air support)
b. 12 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
I am against relying on on the companies of the other BS to defend the Einherjar. For that reason I decided to place a 50% (16*1,5=24) greater number of cruiser at its direct support and defence than the BS have. Because they have to relay on the other ships to fight at long range there are no carrier in this group.
1. 2 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
2. 2 Teutonic Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored, short range)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
3. 12 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (12*8) 96 Escort among them
a. 48 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 12 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 12 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
d. 24 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
4. 8 Youxia Class Escort Cruiser (light cruiser, medium speed, heavy point defence)
they get (8*0.5*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
b. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
c. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
II. Hero Class Battleship (medium speed, powerful lances and super lances)
The Hero and its group are direct support for the Einherjar.
1. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
2. 8 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (8*8) 64 Escort among them
a. 32 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 16 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
3. 8 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (8*0.5*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
III. Mongol Class Fast Battleship (fast speed, long raged powerful lances, including two superlances)
The group to fight at long ranges and react fast. Can use medium speed escorts as they are fast enough to keep up with fast BS and Battlecruiser.
1. 4 Uhlan Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, long range lances)
they get (4*2*8) 64 Escort among them
a. 32 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 32 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
2. 4 Poacher Class Cruiser (fast speed, long range lances)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
3. 4 Corsair Class Cruiser (fast speed, long range)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Privateer Class Raider (fast speed, only fast escort, torpedos)
b. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
IV. 2 Scots Class Grand Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored, lances)
This is the first part of the cruiser force. Two GC add up to roughly one BS
1. 1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (1*2*8) 16 Escort among them
a. 8 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 4 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 4 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
2. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
3. 3 Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
they get (3*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 24 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
4. 4 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
5. 6 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (6*0.5*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 12 Descent Class Destroyer (medium speed, cable of atmospheric flight and close air support)
b. 12 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
V. 2 Gurkha Class Grand Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
This is the second part of the cruiser force.
1. 1 Chevalier Class Heavy Cruiser (slow speed, heavily armored)
they get (1*2*8) 16 Escort among them
a. 8 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 4 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 4 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
2. 2 Marauder Class Battlecruiser (fast speed, generalist)
they get (2*2*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 16 Legionnaire Class Destroyers (medium speed, anti-escort)
3. 3 Praetorian Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, short range)
they get (3*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 24 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
4. 4 Warrior Class Cruiser (cheap, medium speed, generalist)
they get (4*8) 32 Escort among them
a. 16 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
b. 8 Page Class Frigate (slow speed, anti-cruiser)
c. 8 Squire Class Frigate (slow speed, heavy armor)
5. 6 Monk Class Escort Carrier (light cruiser, medium speed, attack craft instead of weapons, heavy point defence)
they get (6*0.5*8) 24 Escort among them
a. 12 Descent Class Destroyer (medium speed, cable of atmospheric flight and close air support)
b. 12 Soldier Class Destroyer (medium speed, generalist)
Annual Upkeep:
Adv. Material: 165,910
Exotics: 1708.4
II: Assuming a budget of 1,500 to 2,000 Exotic Material upkeep:
1: Is there a significantly different proposal that the Navy Staff would like to make (in broad strokes)
2: Is there a proposal above that is better for this level of upkeep? (they are all currently inside this budget)
3: Adjustments that ought to be made to the preferred plan while staying inside this budget?
III: Assuming a budget of 1,000 to 1,500 Exotic Material upkeep:
1: Is there a significantly different proposal that the Navy Staff would like to make (in broad strokes)
2: Is there a proposal above that is better for this level of upkeep? (they are all currently above this budget)
3: Adjustments that ought to be made to bring the preferred plan inside this budget?
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While we are waiting for feedback on fleet specifics, perhaps we should debate fleet upkeep budgets?
The main constraint is Exotic material,and to a lesser extent Adv. Material. I think they are close enough in proportions that we can focus on Exotic Material as a proxy for both of them.
Currently we have a domestic surplus of 300 Exotic Material a year. After trade that surplus rises to 5,000+ a year.
I doubt we can increase the trade surplus, but perhaps we can increase the domestic surplus after 30 years or so.
Remember that the fleet will take at least 30 years to build (most of the upkeep budget is the CBS which is 25 years from completion).
Current fleet proposals range from ~1,700+ a year (Portec's) at the low end to ~1,880+ a year (runes) at the high end. Mine is also at the high end at ~1,850 a year.
2,000 a year would be 2/5th of our current surplus dedicated to the fleet (in 30 years or so). Leaving 3/5th of our current surplus plus any new sources of exotic material for the army and infrastructure demands.
I think that is the highest our Navy budget can go.
1,000 a year would be 1/5 of our current surplus, and I think is the lowest we should go for a Navy budget - but that probably means giving up on the idea of a CBS.
Thoughts?
The main constraint is Exotic material,and to a lesser extent Adv. Material. I think they are close enough in proportions that we can focus on Exotic Material as a proxy for both of them.
Currently we have a domestic surplus of 300 Exotic Material a year. After trade that surplus rises to 5,000+ a year.
I doubt we can increase the trade surplus, but perhaps we can increase the domestic surplus after 30 years or so.
Remember that the fleet will take at least 30 years to build (most of the upkeep budget is the CBS which is 25 years from completion).
Current fleet proposals range from ~1,700+ a year (Portec's) at the low end to ~1,880+ a year (runes) at the high end. Mine is also at the high end at ~1,850 a year.
2,000 a year would be 2/5th of our current surplus dedicated to the fleet (in 30 years or so). Leaving 3/5th of our current surplus plus any new sources of exotic material for the army and infrastructure demands.
I think that is the highest our Navy budget can go.
1,000 a year would be 1/5 of our current surplus, and I think is the lowest we should go for a Navy budget - but that probably means giving up on the idea of a CBS.
Thoughts?
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
it is, it works great for Avernite forces but if anyone else tried it they would have a lot of problems, interestingly enough this is closer to the Pre-Heresy Alpha Legion tactics then anyone else's
- Location
- Berkeley
First, I think that we need to remember to account for psyker population growth when it comes to long-range planning for EM supply. Psyker cities cost a LOT and I think we're going to need to build another one locally in the next 50 years.
I think one idea might be to mothball a chunk of our navy as a matter of routine. We shouldn't need to engage in true planetary assaults outside of planned campaigns, so manning them all the time is likely a bit of a waste.
I think one idea might be to mothball a chunk of our navy as a matter of routine. We shouldn't need to engage in true planetary assaults outside of planned campaigns, so manning them all the time is likely a bit of a waste.
Minor City size psyker cities cost a lot. Smaller size cities cost significantly less. Building a new psyker city in either Lindon or Azure Isles cost 1/10th that of the minor city cost.
- Location
- Berkeley
True, but given the number of psykers we find I think we'd need a minor city size anyway in the next 50 years at least
- Location
- Leeds
I now want to see an omake of an Avernite suggesting tactics to a regular imperial guard squad and them being horrified by how suicidal it is.
HanEmpire
Delicious
[X] Meet with King Zaren of Alfheim: Suggest the idea of a training facility on Alfheim dedicated to training Imperial Trust Guardsmen in Ork fighting. Serving both the purpose of training in fighting one of the two greatest xenos threats, and also helping Alfheim control the Ork threat. What is his feedback on the idea? If favorable, how would he propose presenting it to the rest of the Imperial Trust?
@durin: Are the Ork levels on Alfheim dangerous enough for this to be effective?
@durin: Are the Ork levels on Alfheim dangerous enough for this to be effective?
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
Runes 1,850 EM upkeep
1. Very Good bombadment, decent landing
2. good against defences and defence monitors,very good against defence fleets
3. will suffer some losses to font line units, both repairs and new ships will be needed
4. Medium range fleets, most Imperial or Chaos fleets
5. fast forces, Eldar or Necrons in particular
6. add a few generalist cheap cruisers and carriers
7. powerful core of heavily armored ships which will be very good against defences
8. lack of cheap warships which imparcts numbers
9. the use of Pope Grand Carriers and Templar Heavy Carriers which are great in planetary assault roles
1. replace some of the fast and heavy cruisers with cruisers
3. reduce battleships by at least 1, all other ships by 20%, seriously consider instead dropping the command battleship
Eldar Hamans 1,950 EM upkeep, requires inventing new ships esimaeted 15-20 years of research
very annoying layout
1. decent bombadment, good landing
2. very good against defences, good against monitors, decent agaisnt fleets
3. less against fleet that you significantly outmatch more against equal or superior fleets
4. anyone you have at least equivilant numbers of and is not fast, weaker fleets,
5. anyone fast would slaughter the sniper squads, anyone with enough numbers would slaughter the sniper squads or force them to run rather then fight, Eldar, Necrons and some Nids and Orks, stronger fleets
6. either double the size of the sniper squads and make them the main focus or halve their size and make them a support group, as things are the fleet feels like it is trying to do two separate things at once. add some more escorts
7. the long range weapons
8. the schizophrenic nature of a fleet that is half medium ranged and heavy and half fast and long ranged, both forces will want to fight differently and be vulnerable to divide and conquer
9. the addition of a long ranged element to use against defences
1. for a budget of below 1,500 drop half the sniper squads and one of the battleships
Portoc 1,900 EM
1. good bombadment, bad landing
2. equally good against all
3. normal chance, most liekly to lose a battleship due to the fast battleship
4. a generalist fleet
5. a any specialist fleet
6. drop the fast battleship
7. the use of grand crusiers
8. the use of a fast battleship
in general one issue that a lot of you have is you are tying to make a balanced fleet, that is not the aim you should be focusing on being very good at one thing and not terrible at the others. You do not expect to operate by yourself a lot and it is a lot easier to train your crews and develop experience if you focus on a single form of warfare
for example 50% armoured, 30% cheap and 20% fast or 50% fast, 30% cheap and 20% armoured
even 60% armoured, 35% cheap and 5% fast or 60% fast, 35% cheap and 5% armoured are viable
fast battleships should only be used if the majority of your fleet is fast
- Location
- Alice Springs, Australia
it would provide some experience but not a lot, the numbers have been kept under control by the locals and Midgardian Iron Guard
HanEmpire
Delicious
Meh, figures. I hope it gives the Alfheimers some military tradition at least.
@Elder Haman I don't think your plan will do much. How about we talk with Garp about Internal Security, Bombardment Cacti sex pills and Jotun immigration?
EDIT: the last one is probably a bust, but I'd really like Avernite Ogryns.
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HanEmpire
Delicious
[X] Meet with Governor Garp of Jotunheim and King Zaren of Alfheim: Discuss idea of trading tips and training for the respective Internal Security forces of the three worlds. Suggest the sale of Bombardment Cacti aphrodisiac to Alfheim and Jotunheim in order to boost the other worlds' population growth rates.
Because why not. Alfheim has lackluster internal security at best, while we could do with Jotunheim's intricate espionage network setup by Garp and his paranoid dad. Both Alfheim and Jotunheim have relatively small populations and could do with some boosts. Dedicated Agri-world isn't too viable anymore given the advanced hydroponics everywhere, and Jotunheim could always do with more population to get to where they would've been if not for the civil war.
Because why not. Alfheim has lackluster internal security at best, while we could do with Jotunheim's intricate espionage network setup by Garp and his paranoid dad. Both Alfheim and Jotunheim have relatively small populations and could do with some boosts. Dedicated Agri-world isn't too viable anymore given the advanced hydroponics everywhere, and Jotunheim could always do with more population to get to where they would've been if not for the civil war.
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[X] Meet with Governor Garp of Jotunheim and King Zaren of Alfheim: Discuss idea of trading tips and training for the respective Internal Security forces of the three worlds. Suggest the sale of Bombardment Cacti aphrodisiac to Alfheim and Jotunheim in order to boost the other worlds' population growth rates.
Very informative, thank you.
I think based on this I would drop the Saint Battleship, replacing it with 2 Pope Grand Cruisers, add 2 Templar Heavy Carriers, and drop about 1/2 the sniper numbers, adding replacements on the brute side, or not depending on our budget preference. The long range weapons of the new ship designs are considered attractive, so want to keep those. The main thing from the other plans are the use of Grand Cruisers, so adding those. Need to add a higher proportion of escorts.
About to head off to bed, and I'm fighting a cold so I can't stay up late. But I'll probably work on the details of a new fleet proposal in the morning.
