Sol needs power to achieve other goals. Did he asked Educator in depth about what he saw?

Sol doesn't crave power in the way that would require him to give up his crutches. Sol very briefly showed a flash of ambition to overcome the metaphysician. Educator implied that while we have the power to do what we want out of life for the most part, if we would like to surpass the metaphysician we need to be more driven. He then said that reliance on coffee jello is counterproductive, it weakens your drive. The same way continuing to use a crutch will weaken your legs if you use them when you do not need them. His advice was that, if you want to overcome the metaphysician specifically, if you have that ambition, you can't rely on coffee jello. Ideally, you would remove the temptation entirely.
 
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when you do not need them
I feel like Solomon pretty much need them. His metaphorical legs almost don't work.😅

He gets more will, but despair never disappeared. Would abandoning one of the last pleasures he has in life do anything good for him? Should he do so in some specific way, suitable for him? Maybe make something out of last Jello and give to someone?
 
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I feel like Solomon pretty much need them. His metaphorical legs almost don't work.😅

He gets more will, but despair never disappeared. Would abandoning one of the last pleasures he has in life do anything good for him? Should he do so in some specific way, suitable for him?

Sol having the drive to reject his crutches of his own free will is character development. Birdsie has said that getting advancements that tackle sols will problem require character development. This is the kind of thing he was talking about. Make the decision in character that Sol is willing to work and sacrifice to get some level of motivation back. To work through his sloth and despair.
 
[X] A Deeper Lesson -
-[X] He's right, of course, a human is more than an animal and requires different methods of control. But an Enrolled is more than a human, too. Dispense with this feeble pawing, this wilful aping at conviction. It's time for mind control.

[X] Visit Market - The Sovereigncy's artifact market is among the liveliest on Fortuna. If you ask, the Club may provide you a minor stipend of money to spend on whatever you want to acquire. There are magic eyes, exotic creatures, blessed relics unclaimed by the Church, and more.

[X] Ancient Ruins - Go exploring with the main team. Shine a light on their way. Discover ancient secrets!
 
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Let Sol eat Jello, but not as reward. Let him eat it because its a good dessert and he wants to do it, this is tasty food and nothing more. Because if it's just abandoned, weakness doesn't disappear, but avoided. Someone still may use it to affect him, because he still craves it. However, if he just eat it every day as normal dessert, it's going to become just that - food, everyday thing. Because demand completely equalized supply, which reduced the price of item.​

[X] A Deeper Lesson
-[X] Turn it into simple food. Eat it once everyday, but not as a reward for anything. No, eat it because you want to eat it and like taste. Severe its conncetion to your will, destroy its unique value via turning it into a normal object and part of routine. Because just abandoning Jello not going to make link dissapear, it still would be there for anybody to use this weakness.

Edit: Ok, this one actually close to what I want to try.
[X] Plan Archmage
-[X] A Deeper Lesson
-[X] The guiding principle of the Magician is 'As Above, So Below.' If Solomon's spiritual core is mere material hedonism, no matter the source, that baseness radiates outwards into each and every one of his workings in the world. Yet simply to discard life's joys would be an overcorrection in the opposite direction. The core of the Magician is balance, wisdom, prudence: the channel and mediator between heavenly Above and worldly Below. To take joy in coffee jelly without being chained by it; to appreciate the world without being corrupted by its harsh realities - that is the slow path to ascension. Granted, the Architecture lessons here are independent of Enrollment, but there's no reason they can't reinforce each other. Talk about this hypothesis with the Educator when you get a chance.
-[X] Once, before you succumbed to despair, you wanted to change the things you saw. Maybe the first step is to recall that Solomon: the Solomon who patiently and exhaustively attempted to head off his parents' divorce; the Solomon who could enjoy coffee jelly without relying on it.
-[X] It's time to get serious. Use the Outlined Tactics.
-[X] Ancient Ruins
-[X] Introduction At Court
 
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I'd agree that the deeper lesson is that Sol should not be deriving motivation from existential pleasures as a reward. Sloth and gluttony should not be your primary motivator for doing anything at all. I'm considering making a plan to use Connections to sever the link between coffee jello and motivation. It needs to be something with commitment and finality, that puts us on the path of solving Sols mental problems. There's clearly a path that needs to be unlocked, since birdsie has said will related advancements are dependent on character growth. This is the best opportunity we'll get for a long time to declare exactly what we want Sol to grow into, exactly what we want his character to be.
 
I don't want to overcomplicate things. I know for sure, if one has something easily and every day, its no longer has any special value. Connection may be severed via just making Jello normal dessert - equal to any other. No magic, no super-deep meanings, no megabrain solutions, no gigachad legendary sacrifices... Just playing into simple and straightforward human nature. The end.​
 
Cal Newport's thesis on how to have passion for your job(probably paraphrased) may be relevant to Sol's situation.

1. Be good at it
2. Your work has room for creativity
3. You see the impact your work makes
4. You have at least some degree of say in what work you do and when you do it.
 
[X] A Deeper Lesson
-[X] Focusing on the coffee jello is missing the point. The issue isn't just gluttony, it's that you're deriving the will to act from fucking *jello*. It's time you consider the connections and motivations that truly make you want to push on.

I mentioned that I like this, and I still do. We understand Sol pretty well at this point, so I posit this - what is Solomon Lancaster's greatest desire? He wants to be heard. By his peers, by his teacher(s), by everyone in his life. Solomon is a man who desires real human connection, something he has never truly had. I would therefore suggest that we should drop the jello as best we can and focus instead on friendship - Penny and Harrison are both willing to listen to Sol, and THAT is where he should find the Will to go on.

Anyways I also vote for everything that ain't going to a ball.
[X] Ancient Ruins
[X] Visit Market
 
Hm... I feel like the deeper lesson here could yield secrets and powers much more useful than the simplistic willpower likely granted by abandoning gluttony. Ideally one works both smart and hard, but if you have to choose one (and we do, there is simply not enough Will to go around), it's better to work smart. There are plenty of animal species capable of brute diligence but it's humanity that has seized the earth's surface. Also, it will be way less fun to cripple our Will income and current Will total just for the uncertain promise of eventual rewards. We are already spending copious resources in that direction with our Architecture focus.

As for whether we should attend the Ball or the Exploration Team, this depends a lot on our reserve of meta-resources - appropriate, given the target we are aiming at.

@Tyrant_Rayne @ilbgar123 Have you expended your powers for the time being, or are you holding something in reserve? If so, this first exploration action could yield a spike at least somewhat comparable to last turn. I do have a CYOA I'm finishing, but we are coming off less than two weeks from the last push and people may simply be exhausted. It's not as if Solomon needs more power at the moment, and going for a spike now will slow pacing. I am ambivalent about committing here.

@Birdsie With Sol's new level of Architecture after this lesson, what's his maximum achieveable level of Connections? The 200 XP difference may be relevant.

There have been some good hypotheses about the deeper lesson, so let's have Sol evaluate a few viable ones this turn, and maybe talk to the Educator about them during the next Remedial we take - ideally next turn, to maintain our momentum here.

[X] Plan Archmage
-[X] A Deeper Lesson
-[X] The guiding principle of the Magician is 'As Above, So Below.' If Solomon's spiritual core is mere material hedonism, no matter the source, that baseness radiates outwards into each and every one of his workings in the world. Yet simply to discard life's joys would be an overcorrection in the opposite direction. The core of the Magician is balance, wisdom, prudence: the channel and mediator between heavenly Above and worldly Below. To take joy in coffee jelly without being chained by it; to appreciate the world without being corrupted by its harsh realities - that is the slow path to ascension. Granted, the Architecture lessons here are independent of Enrollment, but there's no reason they can't reinforce each other. Talk about this hypothesis with the Educator when you get a chance.
-[X] Once, before you succumbed to despair, you wanted to change the things you saw. Maybe the first step is to recall that Solomon: the Solomon who patiently and exhaustively attempted to head off his parents' divorce; the Solomon who could enjoy coffee jelly without relying on it.
-[X] It's time to get serious. Use the Outlined Tactics.
-[X] Ancient Ruins
-[X] Introduction At Court

The Outlined Tactics:
*Solomon's strength has always been insight rather than diligence; apply it now to see the Educator's meaning.
*For a motivationally crippled person like Sol there is nothing inherently wrong with relying on an external stimulus to condition himself, but it it does expose him to two weaknesses: first, it's a vulnerability that enemies can strike at; second, if he feels satisfied at his current level of productivity he may stop seeking truer and deeper motivations for action.
*To simply swear off his greatest source of motivation is similar to a smoker quitting 'cold turkey' - potentially effective with incredible self-discipline, but empirically unsuccessful more often than not. It's not the smart or prudent way to go about things, but shows an impatience and desire for results antithetical to Sol's nature as the Slacking Loafer.
*If he's to change himself, Sol should go about it by playing to his strengths rather than trying to imitate Harrison's.
*Come up with a plan to wean yourself off excess reliance on Coffee Jelly: try doing more for less hedonic reward in order to amplify the inherent satisfaction of achieving things; augment your mentality with magics directly (but not overly so); and search your mind to codify your true values. Deepen your connections with others and support each other to mutual action. See if Penelope can help.

[X] A Deeper Lesson
[X] Ancient Ruins
[X] Introduction At Court

[X] Plan Gandalf
-[X] Does Sol actually want to attain godlike power and outstrip all his peers to enforce dominion upon the world? Does this sound like the person he truly is? Perhaps the path of wisdom is to accept one's flaws and role in the world, and grow into it thereby. The King of Magi is not Justice who boldly overturns fate - but advisor, mentor and puppetmaster who steers the world onto a better course. What's wrong with being an instrumental team player rather than the protagonist? Is this not precisely the Role you argued for? It was not by Achilles' might that the walls of Ilium were overcome - but by Odyssesus' cunning.
-[X] Rather than accruing power solely for himself, Solomon should push Penelope and the others forward, and simply ensure he does enough to keep pace. Taking plenty of assistance from his allies, of course. Let the others do the hard work; they're suited for it. The Magician will sit at the back and reserve his efforts for the pivotal moment. One action, properly placed, can overturn the whole world: is that not the lesson of the Architecture?
-[X] Abandon Ambition
-[X] Introduction At Court
-[X] Visit Market

In Immersion we already took the path of immense personal might, so I'm down for Sol to rely on his teammates in this quest. It's a bit antithetical to my personal playstyle, so I prefer Archmage, but I'm not wholly opposed to a more cooperative role.
 
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rq @Rihaku - we have space for two activities in Fortuna! It's only when we hit three that we are overstretched, so you could realistically throw Visit Market into both of your plans without feeling too bad about it.
 
There are other, more stable, and efficient methods of fanning one's eagerness than undirected gluttony. You've brushed against some, and discovered a couple of others. Employed none so far.

This is an interesting statement...

If Sol Abandons Gluttony, he will still be afflicted with despair, and he'll immediately Decompress for several actions. Narratively this is very underwhelming - his great moment of resolve doesn't lead to any results, but instead causes him to lie around for several weeks?

Tactically it's ill-advised: Sol's laziness is a result of despair, removing his motivational forces without addressing despair is like telling a man with a broken leg not to use crutches. Some people need crutches until the underlying problem heals. But we can't heal the underlying problem if we have no Will to make and act on plans.

Rather, we should consider: what are the "stable and efficient methods" that the Educator is referring to, and why hasn't Sol, having discovered 'a couple,' been using them? That is part of the deeper lesson here, and the option that can take action on this front is, unsurprisingly... A Deeper Lesson!
 
If A Deeper Lesson is a Remedial-related thing, its nature is Kabbalistic. The first two options are a bit odd; Abandon Gluttony prefaces itself with 'He's Right', ruining their symmetry.
I'd analyse their gematria (HRAG's gematria is the same as Key To Escape The Matrix or I Am Yahweh, AA's gematria doesn't match anything interesting), but I already know Birdsie uses a different method than any I'm aware of, so I'd just get coincidental results. There's a few nigglings of possible interpretations besides that (interpretion 1: Ambition isn't a sin but gluttony is. interpretation 2: Gluttony connects to Netzach through its Klipot and Ambition connects to Hod...) but none of them really make use of the 'He's Right' imbalance or are particularly convincing.
also A Deeper Lesson is the same color Rihaku uses for the Praxis if memory serves, but this is probably a coincidence since so is Visit Market
 
I'm in agreement with Rihaku. Cutting off coffee jello does address our crutch usage, but misses the point that we need to make the idea of using it obsolete, by meaningfully addressing our despair. As the root cause is Sol's feeling that taking action and speaking to others is pointless, I see the solution to be focusing on connecting with others and taking actions that have a verifiable effect in the world.
 
Once, before you succumbed to despair, you wanted to change the things you saw. Maybe the first step is to recall that Solomon: the Solomon who patiently and exhaustively attempted to head off his parents' divorce; the Solomon who could enjoy coffee jelly without relying on it.
I would like to briefly interject to say that this line goes HARD.
 
Solomon's Core is helping others, no matter how much he tries to tell himself otherwise, his actions prove otherwise.

Solomon's only depressed because the information he has, has made it so he feels useless. He can't enact change, because the world won't let him. This is what caused his hedonistic material desires.

We can see that from the woman he regularly helped, it proved to be a major impetus and helped him get through the day. Here, he's been focusing on himself without being able to help others. When a situation requires him to act, he does act. Take a look at when the monster was going to be a problem and endanger others, he sought to solve the problem, and would have done so, without any will expenditure.

We as players are going against it, by failing to address and delegating those kinds of actions upon others. Removing the avenues that we had to our disposal for power. We're effectively screwing ourselves over, by not addressing the things Solomon cares about.
 
@Rihaku

Birdsie says Deeper Lessons and it's compatriots can't be upgraded with Real Money, and after the major buff of the previous Turn, chugging more powerups doesn't really appeal right now, so I'm not feeling buffing the visitation actions.
 
I was mostly talking about the rewards we're getting from Ancient Ruins, but that's good to know!

Solomon's only depressed because the information he has, has made it so he feels useless. He can't enact change, because the world won't let him. This is what caused his hedonistic material desires.

We can see that from the woman he regularly helped, it proved to be a major impetus and helped him get through the day. Here, he's been focusing on himself without being able to help others. When a situation requires him to act, he does act.

This is an insightful point... whether or not Sol cuts off Coffee Jello is less important than him going out there and making connections with others, seeing viscerally that he can actually help (or perhaps more broadly, affect) people and enact change. It is not yet definitive that Sol enjoys 'helping' so much as 'affecting' in any way - he has a natural inclination to help, but did he try making things worse? Presumably pre-Enrollment the Architecture would have prevented both.
 
It is not yet definitive that Sol enjoys 'helping' so much as 'affecting' in any way - he has a natural inclination to help, but did he try making things worse?
Solomon does have a moral code; we know he is unwilling to lie to manipulate people even for their own gain, for instance. Though it's possible the positive-impetus/enjoyment is for affecting things in general, there's probably a distaste towards making things worse that would outbalance it when the change is for the worse?
 
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