CaramelTheMoo
Rat and Cow combined
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I feel like I brought the mood down, sorry. Am enjoying how the flood are being used here.
The Galaxy is Flood, Not Food
- Thread starter Jackson Fox
- Start date
- Crossover Sci-Fi Horror
Random question, definitely shouldn't look into this as an idea of where I'm going in the future, but how fast do yall think the Flood could build 40k warships? Like if, say for example, they managed to take over a small forge world, how fast would the Flood controlled planet be able to pop out a fleet? Assume the ships prioritize efficiency over stuff like giant cathedrals and stained glass windows.
Really though, don't look into this. Or else.
EDIT: Basically looking for build times for stuff like battleships, cruisers, etc.
Really though, don't look into this. Or else.
EDIT: Basically looking for build times for stuff like battleships, cruisers, etc.
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It will take him about a week to get everything converted to what he needs it to be, after that? Assuming he prioritizes efficiency then I'd say about 10% of rhe time it would take the Imperium to do the same at first. This would rapidly get faster in as he learns more and streamlines the process and makes it better
- Location
- Euclidean plane
So, flood forms could probably do everything a human can, with less need for rest and with greater strength. If one of them breaks, an equal replacement is easily possible. Vary this with specialized forms that would be better for certain tasks? Far more work than the imperium, and faster too.
I'd say that the vast amount of trouble would be with how much micromanagement is possible. The biggest issues would be controlling everything required for more precise work than 'break that', 'dig there', or 'hunt that'. Or perhaps how much independence you can give a flood forms with simple instructions.
The canon gravemind managed to operate ships quickly, but that might have just been using stolen memories to do just enough to get from point A to point B and not explode on the way. It didn't create much, as far as I remember. It could have, but it did have more of a murderhobo vibe.
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- Location
- Elsewhere
Hard to say. Tide certainly doesn't suffer from the Imperium's horribly inefficient bureaucracy and labor management, and leaving off the ostentatious ornamentation probably saves a lot of time and resources. A well-coordinated hive mind in charge of a tireless workforce prioritizing the creation of a functioning ship over any other factor? Certainly, a lot less time than it would normally take.
I'm not overly familiar with the finer details of the setting, but I've read claims on Reddit that a well-run shipyard could build a frigate in a matter of months, and a cruiser within a decade. But it's the critical subsystems like the Gellar Fields and Warp Drives that are the real bottleneck, apparently.
- Location
- Anchorage, Alaska
Tide would get starships done in about 30-40% of the time it takes the imperium to do so, especially if he has a gravemind.
if he has a KEYMIND in the vicinity? Neural physics would make ships far faster.
for one tentacles and combat/pure forms would help immensely with build-up since no need for rest, heightened learning capability, and the more he does something the faster he can learn due to the sheer amount of minds and neuralogical processes going on.
also depends on ship size, if he is spamming out hardened escorts? He could shoot out so many that he could overwhelm patrols and saturate defenses to unleash his spores/attack craft. Lets not forget the more graveminds and KeyMinds he has, the more coordinated he becomes...untill he evolves beyond even a KEYMIND and becomes a "precursor" in form and capabilities, a entity so powerful he could alter reality to his own needs if needed.
Neural Physics are fucking busted, especially if he re-creates slip-space to be a alternate compared to the warp. which case spreading that as a STC would render the warp and navigators less reliable and needed, logistics would actually probably be even better then ever.
if he has a KEYMIND in the vicinity? Neural physics would make ships far faster.
for one tentacles and combat/pure forms would help immensely with build-up since no need for rest, heightened learning capability, and the more he does something the faster he can learn due to the sheer amount of minds and neuralogical processes going on.
also depends on ship size, if he is spamming out hardened escorts? He could shoot out so many that he could overwhelm patrols and saturate defenses to unleash his spores/attack craft. Lets not forget the more graveminds and KeyMinds he has, the more coordinated he becomes...untill he evolves beyond even a KEYMIND and becomes a "precursor" in form and capabilities, a entity so powerful he could alter reality to his own needs if needed.
Neural Physics are fucking busted, especially if he re-creates slip-space to be a alternate compared to the warp. which case spreading that as a STC would render the warp and navigators less reliable and needed, logistics would actually probably be even better then ever.
- Location
- colombia
Gravemind?
Not exponentially faster (9 woman aint making babies in 1 month,some process cant be shortcut)
But with its intelligence and hive mind coordination,it could probably halve the time it takes to build them and optimize their designs
No different than having a super AI administrator,will squeeze rhe max efficiency but cant make miracles,still limited by the nature of the tools avaible to him,and will take time to refit old lnes and build new ones
With key minds around then he can actually bend reality and shortcut steps, leading to exponenrial production
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- Location
- Euclidean plane
There's also the question of 'will humans ever use these ships'.
If not, little things like most life support, the size of corridors and rooms, and necessary supplies are much more flexible. Not to mention that getting near them wouldn't be possible without copious fire, so even without weapons, ramming speed with lots of small, maneuverable ships and hoping for the best might be a viable strategy. Flood definitely make for creative thinking.
If not, little things like most life support, the size of corridors and rooms, and necessary supplies are much more flexible. Not to mention that getting near them wouldn't be possible without copious fire, so even without weapons, ramming speed with lots of small, maneuverable ships and hoping for the best might be a viable strategy. Flood definitely make for creative thinking.
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So, general consensus seems to be that the Flood would be more capable at creating ships than basically anyone else and could use the space more efficiently.
As an example, lets say they built a battleship using this small forge world that's about six kilometers in length. On the smaller side of battleships as far as the Imperium is concerned, but it uses that space a lot more efficiently. Lose anything like beds, bathrooms, mess halls, cargo space for stuff like food, basic amenities, probably don't even need human-sized corridors for most of the ship which would help against boarders that aren't squats or ratlings. As a result, you get a very compact warship, probably deadlier than anything of similar length assuming similar weapon capabilities.
When it comes to building the ship, the Flood has the advantages of:
-Perfect/Near-Perfect coordination on a massive scale. Flood forms are able to move as one when under the coordination of a sufficiently large Gravemind or a Keymind. This would be similar to massive automation, but more adaptable to changing situations and less likely to suffer breakdowns.
-Not needing ornamentation. No need to waste time crafting a massive eagle-shaped prow for your battleship or finding and staining glass.
-The Flood is able to dedicate all of its forms' time and effort towards finishing the craft. A combat/pure form isn't going to need to sleep.
-Bending reality via Neural Physics to do stuff faster or more efficiently at a sufficiently high level.
-Optimized building with the mutability and specialization ability of flood forms in mind.
-No bureaucracy to deal with.
-Able to learn and implement better/faster methods on a dime.
As an example, lets say they built a battleship using this small forge world that's about six kilometers in length. On the smaller side of battleships as far as the Imperium is concerned, but it uses that space a lot more efficiently. Lose anything like beds, bathrooms, mess halls, cargo space for stuff like food, basic amenities, probably don't even need human-sized corridors for most of the ship which would help against boarders that aren't squats or ratlings. As a result, you get a very compact warship, probably deadlier than anything of similar length assuming similar weapon capabilities.
When it comes to building the ship, the Flood has the advantages of:
-Perfect/Near-Perfect coordination on a massive scale. Flood forms are able to move as one when under the coordination of a sufficiently large Gravemind or a Keymind. This would be similar to massive automation, but more adaptable to changing situations and less likely to suffer breakdowns.
-Not needing ornamentation. No need to waste time crafting a massive eagle-shaped prow for your battleship or finding and staining glass.
-The Flood is able to dedicate all of its forms' time and effort towards finishing the craft. A combat/pure form isn't going to need to sleep.
-Bending reality via Neural Physics to do stuff faster or more efficiently at a sufficiently high level.
-Optimized building with the mutability and specialization ability of flood forms in mind.
-No bureaucracy to deal with.
-Able to learn and implement better/faster methods on a dime.
Darik29
Verified Delicious
The ships can also double as a mass boarding unit, and like Tyranid ships is a special kind of hell to try and board without losing everyone boarding for no gain.
Also instant world infection, just toss a too damaged ship at a planet surface and watch the infection go.
Also instant world infection, just toss a too damaged ship at a planet surface and watch the infection go.
Drunk Hierophant
Aspirant Archailect
- Pronouns
- He
I would go as far as to say it wouldn't be boardable in the traditional sense. If properly built it would better be described as a space capable Flood form with cybernetic augmentations rather than a crewed voidship.
It'd be like trying to board a whale or infiltrate the inside of an elephant, and that's exactly as ridiculous as it sounds.
Will tide be able to build slipspace drives? A FTL method thats reliable (except for the reconciliation thing) that doesn't rely on the warp is a massive game changer and it looks like the Forerunners had fast galactic slipspace drives that could easily transport 50 km long fortress class ships.
Also, will Tide be able to communicate and control his other keymind/subordinate graveminds via non-warp FTL communication? If so thats another massive advantage compared to almost every other faction in WH40K except for the Necrons. It would allow for FTL sensors (Tide could build smaller drones with standard light speed sensors, but with a keymind to relay that information via FTL would mean FTL sensors for highly accurate fire control. Torpedoes could also be made with FTL sensors for longer range firing while boarding torpedoes would be even more effective.
Also, will Tide be able to communicate and control his other keymind/subordinate graveminds via non-warp FTL communication? If so thats another massive advantage compared to almost every other faction in WH40K except for the Necrons. It would allow for FTL sensors (Tide could build smaller drones with standard light speed sensors, but with a keymind to relay that information via FTL would mean FTL sensors for highly accurate fire control. Torpedoes could also be made with FTL sensors for longer range firing while boarding torpedoes would be even more effective.
TheAkashicRecord
The Library Of All Knowledge
- Location
- Somewhere~
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Jackson answered that in a earlier post, i asked if they would have access to unsc. covenent and forerunner tech, jackson said no, they would only get precursor tech, and that does NOT include slipspace tech, as far as i know.
- Location
- Cambridge MA
I'm not sure how large those Flood advantages would be.
I'm not sure that a starship would actually be more than 10% empty space, and I seriously doubt the ornamentation would be more than 0.01% of the mass. It might be more in terms of construction time if it were required to be more manual, but in that case unskilled labor is what the Imperium has a ridiculous surplus of.
And if a EoM starship were really 7/8ths empty space, what that really means is that the Flood could build a starship half the size and equally powerful for the same material cost.
I'm not sure that a starship would actually be more than 10% empty space, and I seriously doubt the ornamentation would be more than 0.01% of the mass. It might be more in terms of construction time if it were required to be more manual, but in that case unskilled labor is what the Imperium has a ridiculous surplus of.
And if a EoM starship were really 7/8ths empty space, what that really means is that the Flood could build a starship half the size and equally powerful for the same material cost.
When building ships the first question is how hard is your SciFi? You Have to build a fully functional, self-contained, and sustainable ecosystem to have a space ship and Heat buildup can become a real problem
Humans have 21st century solutions and just overbuild them, and Magic anti-gravity plates and a few other distinct pieces of High Tech that they have maintained by rote.
Orcs bullshit their way through those problems
Necron removed the need for such creature comforts as air long ago.
Etc etc.
So yeah you could probably build a smaller ship than Humans if you, super genius that you are, took and look at the systems and built improved versions that don't need 5,000 redundant pairs
However if all your systems are biological, food and heat buildup could become issues.
You also can't forget that the System lives and dies on the amount of Dakka. You will need a ship of at least a certain size to hold and power all of the Guns you will need to defend yourself when you Inevitably get stopped by the Imperium, attacked by Chaos, and the three way fight attracts an Ork Waaaagh
Humans have 21st century solutions and just overbuild them, and Magic anti-gravity plates and a few other distinct pieces of High Tech that they have maintained by rote.
Orcs bullshit their way through those problems
Necron removed the need for such creature comforts as air long ago.
Etc etc.
So yeah you could probably build a smaller ship than Humans if you, super genius that you are, took and look at the systems and built improved versions that don't need 5,000 redundant pairs
However if all your systems are biological, food and heat buildup could become issues.
You also can't forget that the System lives and dies on the amount of Dakka. You will need a ship of at least a certain size to hold and power all of the Guns you will need to defend yourself when you Inevitably get stopped by the Imperium, attacked by Chaos, and the three way fight attracts an Ork Waaaagh
canned Tomatoes
verified non-perishable
- Location
- Germany
Keep in mind that smaller, more compact ships have the downside that a penetrating hit is more likely to hit something important.
There is also logistics to keep in mind.
What type of weapons is it using?
If those are pure energy weapons, they need the energy connection, if it's a weapon that uses physical ammunition, where are the magazines, is it explosive ammunition etc.
While the ship won't truly need to cater to the needs of a crew, it would need to cater to the needs of logistics, as well as the ability to do repairs.
If the ship would be able to fold open like the eldritch flesh origami it probably is, because it doesn't really have internal pathways to access damaged areas or storage areas, then the folds are possible structural weaknesses.
There is also the question of throughput when considering designing the interior.
One advantage the flood has is that it doesn't need communication lines across their ship.
Meaning that the ship can be sectioned off completely.
There could be a compartment completely enclosed by bulkheads and armor that contains the ammo and the weapons, that use ammo.
If it takes a hit that ignites the whole thing, the explosion would go outside for the most part, instead of spreading into the ship.
Anyway, there's usides and downsides to the designs.
I'd expect the flood to use the space that is freed up by not having to use crew and more efficient ways of utilizing things, like simply huge muscles reloading Macrocannons instead of work crews, by adding more redundancies, armor or upscaling existing systems.
Bigger engines, that can run hotter than the orignal engines, same for reactors, shields, weapons etc.
Resulting in something that has the same size, but is more resilient, more difficult to mission kill, faster and more dangerous while also being more salvageable.
The kind of ship that you would think to be dead only to nail you with a broadside when it suddenly rolls around after you had already dismissed it as a threat.
I'm curious to see how our MC will deal with the Necrons, because beside Chaos (maybe end tier-eldar things) they are one of our most terrible enemies, because well they are the winners from the War in Haven soo they must have a lot of op shit just waiting to be used, and well we are basically nids 2.0 for them so they already hate us
- Location
- colombia
Also jackson mentiones that slipspace might or not exist but that such thing would have to be researched from scratch by tide
TheAkashicRecord
The Library Of All Knowledge
- Location
- Somewhere~
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ah, i did not know THAT, thanks foe letting me know!
- Location
- colombia
Yeah,basically he has no tech,only neural physics and the flood intellect
So if he wanta something he will have to research it on its own and see if it actually works within 40k physics
TheAkashicRecord
The Library Of All Knowledge
- Location
- Somewhere~
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Makes sense, still, i still maintain covenent and forerunner tech is a powerful starting point even in 40k.
Ahh but remember, before the necrons went to sleep they destroyed all their weapons over a certain power threshold.
Which really puts the War in Heaven to scale because the fucking Celestial Orrery was given the pass and deemed not to powerful to be left intact.
Drunk Hierophant
Aspirant Archailect
- Pronouns
- He
The thing about the Necrons is that they culturally haven't assimilated the fact they're an uploaded civilization and still build their ships as an organic race would do it (main command bridges hallways, etc) when their best bet would be a plug and play solution for the crew entombed inside coffins deep within kilometers of armor and all the maintenance being done by canoptek scarabs moving around in hand sized crawlspaces.
They have absolutely no need to be able to move spare parts around given their effective mass-energy & reverse conversion capabilities. The Culture explores 40k fic illustrated it perfectly with the Necrons being incredible material engineers but poor programmers/sysadmins.
Cloak&Dagger
Definitely Insane
Which itself brings up the very likely possibility of The Emperor himself directly calling for his obliteration.
He's probably too dispersed to notice one odd soul, but as Tide starts releasing millions and billions of them, the Emperor will take note and act barely more subtly than the Tyranids.