- Location
- The Frozen North
[X] Act: Attack with the scythe
[X] Move: Move to MED range
[X] Move: Move to MED range
Terrene Spire - Gently ended.
- Thread starter Dexexe1234
- Start date
- Original Art Quest
Mechasaurian
Big Bossu
- Location
- Lost among fields of history
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Act: Attack with the scythe
[X] Move: Move to MED range
[X] Move: Move to MED range
- Location
- United States
[X] Act: Attack with the scythe
[X] Move: Move to MED range
[X] Move: Move to MED range
- Location
- [REDACTED]
[X] Act: Attack with the scythe
[X] Move: Move to MED range
[X] Move: Move to MED range
- Location
- Denmark
as far as we know it was the effect of the scythe being attached to the long spine of the Eishalon.
Radek
Promethean
- Location
- A Cryptum, somewhere
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
The Eishalon had reach well beyound ours due to how it held its weapon. We lack that, so are stuck with shorter strike range.
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
Guess that falls under 'Longer arms/Superior Skill in wielding Scythes'.
reydrago
is it just me or updates are kinda slow lately?
- Location
- in an alternate dimension
hey,@Dexexe1234 looks like the vote is unanimously on :
[X] Act: Attack with the scythe
[X] Move: Move to MED range
so do we really need to count it?
[X] Act: Attack with the scythe
[X] Move: Move to MED range
so do we really need to count it?
- Location
- Denmark
Well, no. As far as I know you guys don't count votes at all though? I usually do all that either way. I only asked because I couldn't get a clear vote but now we have one!
What uh, what is even really asked here?
Slith10
Back from the dead and ready to party!
- Location
- New Zealand
Oh! I know! What is your favourite kind of food?
Umm, why are we moving to MED range? We (unless we use starshards) can only attack at SHT range, while the Robot can attack at MED.
[X] ACT: Attack with the scythe
[X] MOVE: IF the enemy moves to MED range, move to SHT range.
-[X] Otherwise, don't MOVE.
Give it a bit longer - there were a few people who had a different MOVE action.
That's sort of the problem with being able to vote for anything - it results in lots of different votes which are all counted separately.
Something I've seen done is just posting the output and then working out from there which votes won.
[X] ACT: Attack with the scythe
[X] MOVE: IF the enemy moves to MED range, move to SHT range.
-[X] Otherwise, don't MOVE.
Give it a bit longer - there were a few people who had a different MOVE action.
It could be the multiple layer vote. Also, small changes in votes result in different votes for the voting program, so it counts them separately.
That's sort of the problem with being able to vote for anything - it results in lots of different votes which are all counted separately.
Something I've seen done is just posting the output and then working out from there which votes won.
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- Location
- The Frozen North
My reasoning for moving back was that next turn, we can use star shards and then step back into LNG range, and hopefully the robot won't be able to attack that far. After that, we can advance back to MED and then SHT, starsharding and scything as appropriate. That way we at least have a chance of juking out one of its attacks instead of staying in SHT range the whole battle and just tanking all of them.
Let's plot it out:
At MED (assuming robot doesn't move this turn - if it does, we're either repeating this update, or move straight to 'at LNG'):
a. R attacks first, hits (probably - I don't think starshards would be able to parry).
b. R attacks second, misses.
c. R moves forward first, hits.
d. R moves forward second, no change.
e. R moves back first, wasted starshards and wasted turn for both (we're possibly on a time limit with the other robot)
f. R moves back second, hits and wasted next turn for both.
Out of the six possible moves, there is only one good outcome (Robot attacks second and doesn't move).
Once at LNG, we have 2 real options:
a. Move to MED first, then starshards.
b. Move to MED second, then starshards next turn.
The second one basically just means we wasted a turn, with no attack and only not getting hit if the robot attacks first, when we'd be out of range, while a again only lets us not be hit if the robot moves back first, meaning a wasted turn (and starshard).
In summary: the only realistic way we're dodging the robot's attacks by move actions result in us both wasting our turn (and thus isn't at all helpful - dodging an attack by moving is only useful if we can strike back).
- Location
- The Frozen North
Thanks for the well-though-out refutation, No One! Great to get a debate going. I can't say I agree with your conclusions though .
If, on the other hand, we were to try to remain in SHT range the whole fight, the only possible outcomes are ties/parries if we attack at the same time, or losses if it moves back when we try to attack and then it attacks us. Summary of its possible moves and results if we attempt to stay in SHT:
a. Move back/attack:
--If we attack first, we miss (loss)
--If we attack second, we parry (tie?)
b. Attack/move back:
--If we attack first, we parry (tie?)
--If we attack second, it hits first and we miss second (loss)
c. Move forward/attack:
--If we attack first, hit, but then it will hit us second half (tie)
--If we attack second, we parry (tie?)
c. Attack/move forward:
--If we move first, it hits, then we hit second (tie)
--If we attack first, we parry (tie?)
In this course of action, there are only losses and ties, resulting in an overall average loss.
Of course, I'm both very tired and a little bit biased, so this analysis might not be entirely valid.
.We also hit it though. Turn is a tie.
We win.
Again, we also hit it. Tie.
Both hit each other, tie.
Loss for us.
Wait. We're at MED. We starshard and hit while it attacks and hits (tie) then we move back and it moves back, resulting in both parties leaving engagement range. Presumably we automatically re-engage with no loss?
Overall, there's one good move, one bad, and lots of ties. Overall a neutral gain/loss average.
At this point, if it looks like we're losing, we can attempt to disengage and run, or we can move to MED and use starshards. MED-->Starshards is a repeat of the previous turn, which I believe we win, but this also allows us an opportunity to run if we have to.
Good point; but we can always just choose not to do this.
In rebuttal to this summary, following the previously laid out strategy, if we are stronger than the robot, we'll win the neutral exchange of attacks, and if we're weaker, we can run away.
If, on the other hand, we were to try to remain in SHT range the whole fight, the only possible outcomes are ties/parries if we attack at the same time, or losses if it moves back when we try to attack and then it attacks us. Summary of its possible moves and results if we attempt to stay in SHT:
a. Move back/attack:
--If we attack first, we miss (loss)
--If we attack second, we parry (tie?)
b. Attack/move back:
--If we attack first, we parry (tie?)
--If we attack second, it hits first and we miss second (loss)
c. Move forward/attack:
--If we attack first, hit, but then it will hit us second half (tie)
--If we attack second, we parry (tie?)
c. Attack/move forward:
--If we move first, it hits, then we hit second (tie)
--If we attack first, we parry (tie?)
In this course of action, there are only losses and ties, resulting in an overall average loss.
Of course, I'm both very tired and a little bit biased, so this analysis might not be entirely valid
.It is - not sure that this reply will be as coherent, and I can't counterpoint each of yours, but here's what I've got.
*Shrug* Not actually sure on that one. I'd say probably, but it'd still result in lost time, and I think we'll want to wrap this up as quickly as possible before the other robot comes back.
While true, I think the one good move is probably the least likely move in there (why would it attack second instead of defaulting to first? What could it gain from attacking second without moving?).
Something you're doing which doesn't really work: You're counting attacking at the same time as a tie, as well as attacking during the same turn, which is basically all that can happen. Parry might be better than starshards, because that's the only way to prevent damage (if we win the contest of Might, the opponents blow doesn't land - the robots only Might roll has been a 1), but on the flipside, if we lose we do nothing.
There is also:
d. Attack/Wait and e. Wait/Attack. If you look at the update, it can only move backwards once, so after that it'll have to stay still.
Another thing you seem to be doing is comparing starshards to scythe, when we can use starshards just as well at SHT. Since my vote has a follow move, we can be assumed to stay in SHT range. If instead we replace with starshards, it looks more like:
a. Move back/attack:
--If we attack first, we hit
--If we attack second, we hit
We're hit in both.
b. Attack/move back:
--If we attack first, we hit
--If we attack second, we hit
We're hit in both.
c. Move forward/attack:
--If we attack first, we hit
--If we attack second, we hit
We're hit in both.
c. Attack/move forward:
--If we attack first, we hit
--If we attack second, we hit
We're hit in both.
For all of these, we're in SHT for as long as we want. All ties.
d. Attack/wait
--If we attack first, we hit
--If we attack second, we hit
We're hit in both.
e. Wait/Attack
--If we attack first, we hit
--If we attack second, we hit
We're hit in both.
Then in SHT range, it'd look basically the same, except with some parries instead of hit and be hit - we need to do damage to win, and basically the only way we'll do that is by opening ourselves up to potential counter-attacks. Another thing (which I don't think is likely, but is a possibility others have mentioned) is that Lock On might give it some way of attacking into LNG - either a ranged ACT, or potentially knowing to follow us etc.
Of course, I'm not sure about using starshards right off the bat, because I don't want to waste them when we're not sure how dangerous this guy is, and we're not sure if it's going to move - however, probably next turn unless new info comes up.
Basically, we can't win this without getting hit: trying is just going to waste time, when the other robot is potentially going for reinforcements - while staying in SHT isn't perfect, I don't think there's anything that going out to MED/LNG grants that actually helps us (other than the potential to run away, but as previously mentioned, I want to kill this guy - mainly issues with Lock On potentially tracking, the other robot and Shrub's village - I don't want them to go after Shrub's village because we ran off).
TLDR - MED/LNG doesn't grant anything that we don't get for staying in SHT, the robot can't back off more than once and we can use starshards in SHT if needed.
Prologue: Part 40
- Location
- Denmark
STRIKE WITH PRECISION, CRUSH WITH RAW STRENGTH, IF THE ENEMY SHRUGS IT THAT'S ENERGY BADLY SPENT.
Combat Tutorial
If it wasn't clear enough: WHEN YOU MOVE YOU CAN MOVE INTO THE MEDIUM RANGE CIRCLE. WHERE YOU END UP AFTER THE MOVE BECOMES YOUR NEW CENTER OF RANGE.
if what you are dodging attacks in a way that allows you to MOVE out of its range then yes MOVING while they ACT makes you dodge their attack.
EXAMPLE: The naginata is a stabbing weapon. if an enemy MOVES into range while you stab, aka closer to you, you are stabbing their face with it and they would not dodge the attack. If you had an arcing weapon that can act in MED range, like a morning star with a long chain, moving closer would make you dodge said attack.
I think Dex has asked us to use ACT: Dodge
Dex - Well I haven't asked you to but like dodging with MOVING is basically moving away from the zone being attacked. You cant MOVE on the spot. Not in this way at least.
[] MOVE to the side to dodge his attack
[] ATTACK his scythe IF it gets stuck in the ground
-[] ELSE ATTACK him directly
Dex - You can do that. Layered plans like that aren't out of the question.
Unless otherwise stated, if a skill/thing can be used at LONG range, it can be used at MEDIUM and SHORT as well. Same with a MEDIUM labelled skill/item being used at SHORT range. The next tier blankets the earlier one as well.
Combat is 2D based.
Skills only need energy (Unless otherwise stated).
moving outside the LNG range of anyone acting aggressive to you "cancels" the fight and makes it possible to run.
Rule of thumb: If there's something blocking the path, there will almost never be anything "to see" beyond it. We can move down in front of the coffin still to go further back. Way back when we inspected the fruits we moved past it to look at one, remember?
All ghost skills are possible whenever. You can matter mold right?
Q: CIf we throw stars at him, can we make them spikier after the fact
A: Not yet, only whats orange like our body can be mattermold. Consider that if it leaves the body it is no longer in the controllable radius.
RE:Learning skills: You can always try. Experimentation and practice can make new skills out of nothing, but... There is always the energy cost and the threat of failure. And let's not forget that we are still in combat with something viciously out for blood...
Thanks @No One for starting this list. I will keep it updated as questions get answered.
If it wasn't clear enough: WHEN YOU MOVE YOU CAN MOVE INTO THE MEDIUM RANGE CIRCLE. WHERE YOU END UP AFTER THE MOVE BECOMES YOUR NEW CENTER OF RANGE.
if what you are dodging attacks in a way that allows you to MOVE out of its range then yes MOVING while they ACT makes you dodge their attack.
EXAMPLE: The naginata is a stabbing weapon. if an enemy MOVES into range while you stab, aka closer to you, you are stabbing their face with it and they would not dodge the attack. If you had an arcing weapon that can act in MED range, like a morning star with a long chain, moving closer would make you dodge said attack.
I think Dex has asked us to use ACT: Dodge
Dex - Well I haven't asked you to but like dodging with MOVING is basically moving away from the zone being attacked. You cant MOVE on the spot. Not in this way at least.
[] MOVE to the side to dodge his attack
[] ATTACK his scythe IF it gets stuck in the ground
-[] ELSE ATTACK him directly
Dex - You can do that. Layered plans like that aren't out of the question.
Unless otherwise stated, if a skill/thing can be used at LONG range, it can be used at MEDIUM and SHORT as well. Same with a MEDIUM labelled skill/item being used at SHORT range. The next tier blankets the earlier one as well.
Combat is 2D based.
Skills only need energy (Unless otherwise stated).
moving outside the LNG range of anyone acting aggressive to you "cancels" the fight and makes it possible to run.
Rule of thumb: If there's something blocking the path, there will almost never be anything "to see" beyond it. We can move down in front of the coffin still to go further back. Way back when we inspected the fruits we moved past it to look at one, remember?
All ghost skills are possible whenever. You can matter mold right?
Q: CIf we throw stars at him, can we make them spikier after the fact
A: Not yet, only whats orange like our body can be mattermold. Consider that if it leaves the body it is no longer in the controllable radius.
RE:Learning skills: You can always try. Experimentation and practice can make new skills out of nothing, but... There is always the energy cost and the threat of failure. And let's not forget that we are still in combat with something viciously out for blood...
Thanks @No One for starting this list. I will keep it updated as questions get answered.
It's TECHNICALLY NEW YEARS in some parts of the world, and thus January 1st! WELCOME BACK TO TERRENE SPIRE!! Here's to many MANY more updates and discussions and just a lot more Terrene Spire in 2016!!