- Pronouns
- He/Him
What an idiot.
Subsumption (PMMM Faux-Quest) (Witch MC)
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yeah, my first though upon seeing the choice Ashtaroth made was "yep, sounds like quest social to me"
Flairina
Least Omnipotent Goddess
- Location
- The next infinity over
Surprisingly, to my knowledge we have no information on this whatsoever. A witch's kiss disappears in the event that the witch dies, but we've never seen one be dispelled in any other way, from any piece of PMMM related media. So my answer would be no, unless a magical girl has some sort of specific magic-nullifying/dispelling what have you, you can only remove a kiss by destroying the source... or, of course, unless the witch removes it herself. But what witch would do that?
It's less "fast friends" so much as... well, wait maybe... four or five chapters or so, and this will make more sense.
Correct: most people voted to let Mami come into the barrier to speak to you in person. However, I'll say right now that would have ultimately led to the exact same result - in fact, all of the given options (bar a write in) would have led to a fight one way or another, if in slightly different ways. Mami had her mind made up from the very start of this, and changing it was not something Ashtaroth herself was going to be able to do. There were probably at least a few scenarios that could have resulted in something different happening, but it would have required someone ELSE to act, which wasn't up to Ashtaroth.
It's not just this actually, but I realize now that there's something I'd meant to imply this chapter that I completely lost sight of while trying to cover my bases. Gonna do some quick editing.
EDIT: Edit done. Still not sure it gets across what was intended, but it's somewhat better.
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- Location
- Europe
Tira was always going to support her Senpai, Mami, and Mami was always going to attack us unless we found a way to free Sayaka very fast. Letting them into our barrier in a failing attempt to somehow convince them would have just worsened our position in the inevitable fight.
Sometimes you just can't convince people.
Honestly this chapter felt like it jumped the rails a bit. Astaroth hasn't been super competent in the past, but this is just a level of sheer idiocy that doesn't really fit with her.
Even though it would have ended in a fight anyways, triggering the fight by being braindead is not a good look.
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Well, that could have gone better. Luckily Shemesh should be around somewhere so Sayaka distracting one magical girl could be enough.
Probably more likely to work than trying to grab Mami while she attempts to get Sayaka's Soul Gem back.
[-] Tell her to distract Mami...
[-] Write in.
-[-] While you prepare to subsume Tira, once she charges at you.
Or we could have Sayaka distract Mami, Ashy freeing herself with her Shatterwords and then blocking Tira with Tome.
You know, Tiras charge reminds me of Sayaka's last-ditch attempt before she got subsumed...
Probably more likely to work than trying to grab Mami while she attempts to get Sayaka's Soul Gem back.
[-] Tell her to distract Mami...
[-] Write in.
-[-] While you prepare to subsume Tira, once she charges at you.
Or we could have Sayaka distract Mami, Ashy freeing herself with her Shatterwords and then blocking Tira with Tome.
jenalysis
Midnight Weather Witch
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ashy was petrified of Mami , I could see that leading to some bad decision-making. She panicked a bit.
- Location
- Australia
Sigh. It's depressing that Ashy went with the stupidest possible option, and handled it poorly at that, but even more depressing that this outcome was apparently inevitable, regardless of which approach she'd taken - can't say I'm looking forward to multiple updates of tedious fight scenes before anything interesting can happen again. Don't get me wrong, Flairina, you write combat just as well as you do other stuff, I just personally find it incredibly dull. With dialogue or magical experimentation or city exploration or pretty much anything else that could be happening in the quest, there's a million different interesting ways it could go, but now it'll be anywhere from a month to half a year before anything can happen that isn't either:
* Mami does cool magical stuff, Ashtaroth loses, we reload from a save.
* Ashtaroth does cool magical stuff, Mami loses, plot starts happening again.
Blergh. Sorry for the whining, this is still my favorite piece of fiction on this whole site at the moment; I'll just have to try to find others to occupy myself with in the meantime.
* Mami does cool magical stuff, Ashtaroth loses, we reload from a save.
* Ashtaroth does cool magical stuff, Mami loses, plot starts happening again.
Blergh. Sorry for the whining, this is still my favorite piece of fiction on this whole site at the moment; I'll just have to try to find others to occupy myself with in the meantime.
- Location
- Somewhere
We should get Sayaka to try and convince Tina that if we die, she dies too. Tina can't easily brush her aside like Mami did, so hopefully she'll be able to convince her to get Mami to stop and let us talk this out.
On that topic, I hope Mami doesn't have enough magic left for another Tiro Finale.
Either way, we need to stall and/or flee. Charlotte's around here somewhere, and Shemesh is too.
On that topic, I hope Mami doesn't have enough magic left for another Tiro Finale.
Either way, we need to stall and/or flee. Charlotte's around here somewhere, and Shemesh is too.
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hillo315
Intact but Tactless
- Location
- Somewhere. Somewhere else.
Ooh, new chapter! *abandons Himika Mao fate weave*
Mami: I can't beat the shit out of you without getting closer.
Witchstincts: Then come as close as you like!
Ashy: wait no
] Prove Mami wrong.
On the other hand, it's a bad idea on several levels. First and foremost, Mami might not be prepared to handle the grief that killing Sayaka would surely cause her. Second, she is denying Sayaka the freedom to live in chains or die free as she pleases, and pointedly ignoring the fact that Sayaka really doesn't want to die. Mami believes she is making the right choice, but she is deluded. (Egocentrism, HO!)
Honestly, I don't believe Ashy will take Sayaka down with her, but nobody needs to know that. The risk of killing friends, real or imagined, is often good enough reason to avoid killing Ashy.
Wow. That was breathtaking! Two experienced magical girls versus one noob magical girl and one novice witch. Lots of action to be had here. Shemesh, Charlotte, and all the adopted familiars are all suspiciously absent, though. Maybe they'll show up next chapter?
Also, Ashy has become much more competent since fighting Sayaka. Having more options in combat is definitely a huge part of that, but I presume she's also simply less clumsy with her witch physiology.
[X] Eat Sayaka while you grow out of your restraints.
Well, yes. But that would mean letting the magical girls into the barrier, and that sounds like a dealbreaker.
No. Explaining only digs you deeper. Just do it and explain after the fact!
Interesting detail is interesting. Ashy definitely did something to Sayaka's magical signature.
"No, Sayaka. I cannot let you abandon me again." What a twist! I never would have expected it, but in hindsight Mami would definitely do that.
Probably at the very beginning, right after Sayaka sat down and got comfortable.
Something about Sayaka impatiently shouting up to a higher power for assistance is amusing. Also, I don't think Sayaka needs to transform for her weapon, but she doesn't know that.
Man, Ashy is just terrible at this whole multitasking thing!
Also, Ashy sucks at this whole empathy thing. But I repeat myself.
This is the equivalent of dodging by nervously stepping to the side.
Thiccness has its disadvantages.
Just in case we forgot that Sayaka is a noob...
Witchstincts does not have Ashy's best interests in mind.
Mami: I can't beat the shit out of you without getting closer.
Witchstincts: Then come as close as you like!
Ashy: wait no
Tira fell for the shrapnel trick twice. Shame on her.
"I just don't understand!"/"This is so illogical!"/"Hax!"
The thought of saving your kouhai fills you with determination! Not sorry.
Is Ashy unable to fit all the way back into Tome? Because it would be great if she could retract all the way and shut Tome for near-total... coverage.
It's over, Ashy! Mami has the High Ground™!
Sadly, writing is not a free action.
Something is wrong with this phrase, methinks?
Not another word, Sayaka! It's pointless at best and counterproductive at worst.
It's treason, then.
Ashy bitch-slapped a rampaging dragon. Cross that off her bucket list.
Mami is unlikely to question how that works. But if she does, instant lichbomb.
The scene has become big enough that some minor characters ought to be thrown into the background. So lo and behold, enter the mooks. They should be effective backup as long as they remain numerous and are not the main focus of attention.
Tira's creations are very bad at changing their trajectory mid-flight once they lock on a target. Suckers.
[
] Prove Mami wrong.On the surface, it makes sense. Mami values Sayaka's freedom over her life. That's a tough judgement call to make, but it's the nobler of several evils.
On the other hand, it's a bad idea on several levels. First and foremost, Mami might not be prepared to handle the grief that killing Sayaka would surely cause her. Second, she is denying Sayaka the freedom to live in chains or die free as she pleases, and pointedly ignoring the fact that Sayaka really doesn't want to die. Mami believes she is making the right choice, but she is deluded. (Egocentrism, HO!)
Honestly, I don't believe Ashy will take Sayaka down with her, but nobody needs to know that. The risk of killing friends, real or imagined, is often good enough reason to avoid killing Ashy.
Was this intended, or did Saar push Ashy into action again?
A tornado? I thought it was just a very strong gust of wind. Well, a tornado works.
Ooh, an attack combo! We should try that more often.
Go, my minions! Death by a thousand papercuts!
The Ummashtart are probably angry about the scenery. Caring about Ashy is not their responsibility. Speaking of which, where in this world is Shemesh?!
When Ummashtart enter the foreground, they become useless like any other cannon fodder. There's only so much a horde of paper extras can do, especially when they all attack at once.
This is what Ashy looks like when her HP is running low.
I'm not sure if that was a witchstincts ex machina, but whatever it was just turned the tide of battle.
Does this use energy from Sayaka's soul gem? If so, shouldn't it replenish Ashy's grief reserves?
What just happened?
Ashy's cover can survive a Tiro Finale, maybe with some heavy bruising. That's amazingly sturdy.
Most Magia attacks have fancy names, but most magical girls don't call their attacks like that.
Wow. That was breathtaking! Two experienced magical girls versus one noob magical girl and one novice witch. Lots of action to be had here. Shemesh, Charlotte, and all the adopted familiars are all suspiciously absent, though. Maybe they'll show up next chapter?
Also, Ashy has become much more competent since fighting Sayaka. Having more options in combat is definitely a huge part of that, but I presume she's also simply less clumsy with her witch physiology.
[X] Eat Sayaka while you grow out of your restraints.
Nervos Belli
Don't think this means you've won!
- Location
- Murica
I think it's simpler than that. Mami isn't even entertaining the idea that destroying the soul gem would kill Sayaka. She's going off the highly misleading information Kyuubey gave her, namely that it's the source of a meguca's magic. She's talking about destroying Sayaka's ability to be a magical girl, not her life.
Look at this line.
She automatically disbelieves everything we say, and by extension anything Sayaka says, since she's compromised. So of course she's going to do her risk assessment based on what Kyuubey's told her.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Sayaka should stall Mami. She's not nearly as good at fighting as Ash, but Mami isn't as freely willing to hurt her, and Sayaka's figured out a new sword trick that'll make binding her ineffective. Add in how Sayaka just throws herself at danger under normal circumstances and can heal herself effectively in a fight and she'll keep her busy for pretty much as long as we need. After all, she can use her magic as much as she wants, Mami is limited by her soul gem and however many grief seeds she brought.
While she's doing that, Ash gets out of the ribbons and fights off Tira. She's good, but she's not Mami good, and her gem already needed a cleanse before the meeting started. She'll have to retreat much sooner, assuming she doesn't fight to total darkening. Which may happen, I think. She's already gotten into two fights she didn't get a grief seed out of, this might be her last chance. It would explain why she's going all out now. She either wins here and hopes Mami will let her have Ashtaroth's seed, or she loses and she finds out what happens when her soul gem goes dark.
Also cool chapter, this is a fun fight! I wonder if we'll start seeing other familiars join in? The Faas can't be happy about Tira making more landscaping work and messing up the lawn, and the Polina will be around soon to care for the injured Ummashtart. Round two is shaping up to be very interesting.
While she's doing that, Ash gets out of the ribbons and fights off Tira. She's good, but she's not Mami good, and her gem already needed a cleanse before the meeting started. She'll have to retreat much sooner, assuming she doesn't fight to total darkening. Which may happen, I think. She's already gotten into two fights she didn't get a grief seed out of, this might be her last chance. It would explain why she's going all out now. She either wins here and hopes Mami will let her have Ashtaroth's seed, or she loses and she finds out what happens when her soul gem goes dark.
Also cool chapter, this is a fun fight! I wonder if we'll start seeing other familiars join in? The Faas can't be happy about Tira making more landscaping work and messing up the lawn, and the Polina will be around soon to care for the injured Ummashtart. Round two is shaping up to be very interesting.
Sayaka's the type to fight harder the worse things seem. So on the brink of despair but no longer having to deal with magically induced depression, she finds fresh determination and tried anything she could to get free. And as she discovered, sword beats ribbon. And while you shouldn't take a sword to a gun fight, bringing all the swords that also explode to a gun fight is workable, especially when your opponent won't shoot to kill.
- Location
- St. Petersburg
Somebody should go get Charlotte.
...I am not the most active commentator around, and I tried my best to give Mami's position a chance (it's not too hard to see where she is coming from), yet...
No wonder QB considers Mami one of its best handiworks.
I am considering how much of her loneliness is self-inflicted. Maybe all those people staying well clear of her were onto something.
...I am not the most active commentator around, and I tried my best to give Mami's position a chance (it's not too hard to see where she is coming from), yet...
A combination of utter ignorance combined with a total assurance of her righteousness was already enough to tick me off, but when Sayaka pleads with her to maybe not murder her friend and Mami shuts her up because she obviously knows better... yeah, this crosses over the line where I can be sympathetic to a character. Unwilling to even consider the possibility and the implications of thereof while being warned about it to the face... while Sayaka may be guilty of the same she only had her own life to ruin.
No wonder QB considers Mami one of its best handiworks.
I am considering how much of her loneliness is self-inflicted. Maybe all those people staying well clear of her were onto something.
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hillo315
Intact but Tactless
- Location
- Somewhere. Somewhere else.
It's Ashy's inability to independently understand the situation from different perspectives, her defining character trait. If she thought about it and stepped into Mami's (proverbial) shoes for a few seconds, she would have realized that her idea was really stupid and none of this would have happened. But she wouldn't, she didn't, and here we are.
Actually, maybe magical girls (and candidates) naturally resist the influence? Homura just snapped out of it after a minute or so. If that were a common occurrence for normal people, killing the witch wouldn't be strictly necessary, right?
A really smart and sadistic witch. Just make people do things they'd deeply regret, then leave them to confront the consequences when they regain their senses.
Gah! Now I need to reread.
Fair enough. Still, she was warned. If Sayaka dies, Mami has only herself to blame.
Which seems weird if you consider that Kyubey can grant only one wish per person, no exceptions, no refunds. If a magical girl loses her soul gem, she can't just get another to compensate, and that makes no sense without the lichbomb.
Anyway, Mami is already one step away from realizing that magical girls can't abandon their soul gems... for some nebulous reason. All she needs to do is put two and two together, which there isn't much time for until the battle is over, I admit.
If Mami was honest about not bringing grief seeds, she may be feeling drained enough to witch or be killed off soon. In general, magical girls can't afford to prolong a fight indefinitely without grief seeds to keep them going, and Ashy put up a good struggle. I'm half-convinced this is going to be a bad end for somebody.
I'm just upset that Mami knows she isn't the paragon she pretends to be, honestly. She lets her confidence guide her every action even though she knows it's fake. I think it's pitiable, though.
Most of it, though she may be unaware of it.
There are three main kinds of relationships Mami screws over. The first is the senpai/kouhai relationship that the youngsters eventually outgrow. The second is when enemies are made of everyone who disagrees with her standards. The third is when misunderstandings leave a bad impression that she never tries to resolve. There are other kinds of bad relationships, but those three in particular are Mami's fault.
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SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That may actually be what happens, at least to one of them. Remember that both Mami and Tira had significant corruption in their soul gems already, and Tira didn't even have any Grief Seeds on her (I'm not sure if Mami had any with her either)--and now they're spamming magic at a fairly serious rate, Tira especially. Unless Ashtaroth discovers/develops the ability to directly drain Grief from Soul Gems (and Mami and Tira actually give her the chance to try), I could definitely see things going in that direction. Mami clearly has no intention of backing down or retreating, and Tira may end up in a state where her Soul Gem is so corrupted that she wouldn't make it even if she did retreat.
I just don't see Mami surviving this encounter as a magical girl either way--either she succeeds and kills Ashtaroth--and Sayaka, thus realizing that Soul Gems are literal (and that Kyubey was lying to her the whole time)--causing her to grief spiral right away, or she gets subsumed by Ashtaroth, saving her. I don't see Tira being in a much better position, because she'd be watching her mentor witch out while her own Soul Gem is in a precarious position itself (and knowing that she just murdered Sayaka, too).
And hey, on the bright side, Mami would never be alone again!
hillo315
Intact but Tactless
- Location
- Somewhere. Somewhere else.
Basically, it's a battle of attrition. If Ashy is not killed quickly, she wins by letting everyone else lose first.
Witch events are supposed to be sad, but I guess it's not technically a bad end? I mean, it's bad... but it's not an end. Mami would still be alive... in some fashion. I'm not sorry.And hey, on the bright side, Mami would never be alone again!
And even if she doesn't witch, being stuck with a friend forever is literally the ironic hell she's always wanted, so she has no right to complain.
Nottheunmaker
Altman be praised
- Location
- USG Ishimura
Really? That was my assumption going into this.
I see it the other way around. Mami is smart enough and experienced enough to know when to retreat. She knows that her killing herself trying and failing to save Sayaka isn't doing anyone any favors, least of all her. If Ash and Sayaka push hard enough, she'll bail. She's come back for her, flush with grief seeds and ready to spend them all. Tira has no fall back. Mami is pissed at her for, in her eyes, letting this happen in the first place, and for abandoning her a few months back. She can't be counted on to share her stockpile. And as I said above, she's been through a few fights at this point and hasn't been able to cleanse from them. For her, this is do or die. She probably doesn't know what'll happen if her gem goes black, but I'm sure dying is a guess on her list. It's possible Mami might call for her to retreat if things start going badly, but by the time that call is made it might be too late, because we don't know the state of Tira soul gem besides. My guess is kinda dark, but it could just be not so shiny.
Still, what I think will happen is that Mami and Sayaka will fight for a while, then either more familiars or Shemesh shows up and things tip in our favor, forcing Mami to retreat while Tira is on the verge of witching out, only to be subsumed instead. Mami will see this and take it as further confirmation that she made the right call, while Ash and Sayaka are stuck running away, try to figure out what to do about their newest roommate when Ash pulls her out of Novella, and what in the world to do now that they're being hunted by a stupidly strong and skilled magical girl.
hillo315
Intact but Tactless
- Location
- Somewhere. Somewhere else.
And despite that, she may decide not to retreat. If Mami retreats now, she won't know when she'll find the same barrier again. Retreating could mean giving up on Sayaka.
I'm not saying Mami definitely won't retreat, but... I don't think she considers it an option.
Flairina
Least Omnipotent Goddess
- Location
- The next infinity over
It... almost certainly will not be that long (though the initial reactions to this update made me question that for a bit). I'm sorry to hear that; I usually really enjoy fight scenes in fiction, but I may not be in the majority there. I appreciate that you like this so much most of the time though.
It helps that Mami can apparently make her ribbons invisible at will, should she choose to do so.
Since it's canon information, I'll confirm that she doesn't. Magical girl powers are available even when not in costume, at least to some extent (Mami does a flip off a light post and Kyoko pulls a spear straight from her gem in the original canon, both while in plainclothes). But yes, Sayaka doesn't know that.
Hey, she's getting better!
...you say, talking about what may as well be the witch equivalent of a stickbug.
It is illogical. Completely. Doesn't change the fact that Mami somehow managed to do it anyways.
Yep. Fixed!
At this point, is there a difference?
He's a good familiar, but he's not around much, so he's somewhat unreliable. He might be on his way... or, he might not even know anything is wrong.
What @Nottheunmaker said. Also Sayaka realized Mami has been making ribbons and guns appear in midair and from other surfaces, so she doesn't need to be holding a sword to use one.
It should be, given what Tome represents.
Glad at least someone liked the fight.
I spent a long time fine-tuning it trying to make it engaging, so I'm kind of sad everybody seems so focused on the part of the chapter that was set in stone to begin with. Knew I should've split this in two.Do note that Mami tends to put on a facade to hide her true feelings. It's possible Sayaka's words DID shake her, make her think of the true way those words were meant to be interpreted, but she's not going to show that from an outside perspective. Besides which, Mami has to trust Kyubey, and that he wouldn't do something like, say, extract people's souls from them and cause them to eventually become monsters, because he's the only constant friend that she's had for a long time now. If she loses faith in him, she loses everything.
...sorry, can't really do anything about how Mami is characterized when I'm pretty sure it's true to her canon self. Again I'll bring up Magia Record, where she attacks Iroha under the belief that she's a disguised witch, despite Iroha having four separate character witnesses testifying otherwise (Mami decides Iroha must be mind-controlling them somehow upon hearing this). Granted, Mami also mentions in her own thought process that she's waiting for Iroha to attack back/show her "true self" before striking a lethal blow, and she did have reason to think Iroha was a witch due to seeing her doppel emerge, but the point still stands.
(The vast majority of Mami's loneliness is self-inflicted. People don't stay clear of her; she stays clear of them out of a misguided sense of duty and secrecy.)
YES. Thank you; I really didn't want to say that outright myself for fear of it looking like I was just trying to poorly justify a bad decision, and because it's supposed to be subtext. Since there's so many concerns however, and it's already been brought up, I'm going to expound anyways: Ashtaroth is not seeing her offer/idea the same way it actually comes off to others. She's concerned it won't be taken well, yes, but she's not truly seeing the problem due to her own inherent nature. In fact, she handles this slightly better in these circumstances than she might have otherwise, since she didn't know until recently that witch kisses don't really do much on their own, and so has a decent frame of reference to use with herself. However, since she now knows that they're relatively safe, she sees asking everyone if she can witch kiss them as a valid option. The better option, even. Which, to be fair, it is - but coming from a witch, it comes off terribly (as many of you may have noticed), no matter how she tries to justify it. Hence why she utterly failed her diplomacy roll.
I had hoped this would come across in the chapter itself, but I suppose I didn't write it well enough to make it sufficiently clear. I'll try to improve on that in the future.
Neither of them started out with a ton of grief actually- Mami used one just this morning, and while Tira didn't, she hasn't fought anything else within the interim between now and her first encounter with Ashtaroth. Yes, magic is still used up just by existing, but not that much. You are correct however that neither of them have any grief seeds on them. Unless they were lying, that is.
As for spamming magic, magical girls tend to have more of this available to them than one might think, unless they're particularly weak. The real danger to a soul gem isn't magic use, it's grief - as in, the literal, emotional kind, because corruption accumulates MUCH faster from negative emotion than from anything else. This is exemplified fairly well with how witching out works: when a girl begins to turn into a witch simply from overuse of magic, it's a long, slow process wherein they slowly lose their ability to move, starting quite a while before the soul gem actually becomes a grief seed. In contrast, when a girl starts to witch simply from having an emotional meltdown, the transformation is usually nigh-instantaneous, occurring pretty much in tandem with them hitting their breaking point.
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- Location
- Sunset City zone
Mami being subsumed by Ashtaroth would be massive irony.
She already does. Remember that an earlier chapter had Ashy realize that she was invigorated by Sayaka's misery (iirc, this was right after she healed Kyousuke).
SaltyWaffles
I am dissapoint, son
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Except that Sayaka has been subsumed by Ashtaroth. We have no idea if she can drain grief from soul gems without subsuming them first (which would obviously be a deal breaker for most MGs).
Oh. Make that a little clearer next time, please.
Incidentally, I doubt Ashtaroth can do that.
- Location
- a Minecraft Rollercoaster
The issue with our reaction I think, is that what our character did was completely at odds with what we wanted to do. I feel there could have been an equal disconnect with asking them to enter our barrier since to us, we are vulnerable to them, while to them, we are preparing to ambush them inside our position of strength.
Although its a Faux Quest, I think most of us expected the Faux part to come from the 'All Roads lead to Rome', which is fine by itself. But outright ignoring our vote makes it more like outright fiction. Execelent as the writing is, it would be nice to have a semblemce of control, absent it may be in reality.
Although its a Faux Quest, I think most of us expected the Faux part to come from the 'All Roads lead to Rome', which is fine by itself. But outright ignoring our vote makes it more like outright fiction. Execelent as the writing is, it would be nice to have a semblemce of control, absent it may be in reality.