Plan writing time! Do we take the Armind, since it is a borderline case? I'm getting a whiff of Skoda silliness from it.

[X] Plan Unterderseepanzer
-[X] Approve the MrW-5, the KTW-3, Np-1, Ukw-1, and Armind for testing.
-[X] Non-aquatic testing:
--[X]Mobility and endurance testing: Drive the tank through simulated tactical environment, recording failures, stoppages, etc, until unable to be repaired by crew or out of fuel.
--[X]Main armament testing: Shoot the 7.5cm gun at testing targets, gauging accuracy at various marked ranges and the effect on a target at those ranges.
--[X]Defensive armament testing: The tank must fire on targets arranged around it from all directions, at various ranges, some partially occluded by terrain in a timed test. All weapons and movement allowed.
--[X]Durability testing: Fire small arms, machine guns, and test explosive detonations near vehicles at various angles. Use pigs as standins for crew and leave engine idling to determine risk of engine failure due to enemy fire.

No actual submarines or immersion will be included in the testing.
 
Provisional Armor Regiement
Might as well do an informational to drum up some interest because nobody wants to read the links.

PROVISIONAL TOE FOR ARMOR REGIMENT, CIRCA M.866

Armor Regiment NAME
HEADQUARTERS BATALLION
-Headquarters Company (Standard)
-Maintenance Company
--Mechanical Platoon
---Engines Section: 1x Lead Mechanic (SSGT), 3x Foreman Mechanics (SGT), 24x Line Mechanics
---Vehicles Section: 1x Foreman Mechanic (SGT), 12x Line Mechanic
---Repair Section: 1x Foreman Mechanic (SGT), 12x Line Mechanic
--Recovery Platoon
---Recovery Section 1
---- 1x Driver (SGT), 2x Crane Operators (CPL), 4x Line Mechanics; 1x flatbed truck or tank transporter (light)
---Recovery Section 2
---Recovery Section 3
--Replacement Platoon
---Replacement Section 1
----1x SGT, 12x Tank Drivers (CPL)
---Replacement Section 2
---Replacement Section 3
-Tank Transporter Company
--Tank Transporter Platoon 1
---Tank Transporter Section 1: 1x Driver (SGT), 2x Crane Operators (CPL), 4x Line Mechanics; 1x flatbed truck or tank transporter (light)
---Tank Transporter Section 2
---Tank Transporter Section 3
---Tank Transporter Section 4
--Tank Transporter Platoon 2
--Tank Transporter Platoon 3
--Tank Transporter Platoon 4
-Signal Company (Standard)
-Reconnaissance Company (Standard)
-Regimental Band
-Field Hospital Platoon (Standard)

HEAVY ARMOR BATALLION
-Headquarters Company
--Headquarters Platoon (Standard)
--Communications Section: 2x Signals Director (SSGT) 4x Signals Chief (SGT) 24x Radio Signalmen, 12x Telephone Signalmen, 4x Line-Runners; 9x light trucks or tractors and cart, 2x motorcycles with standard sidecars
--Medical Platoon: 1x Chief Doctor (WO4) 3x Line Doctors (WO3) 10x Nurses (WO2) 24x Medical Attendants
--Transportation Platoon (Standard)
--Mess Section (Standard)
--Armorer Section (Standard)
--Artillery Matinence Section (standard)
--Maintenance Platoon (Mechanical) (As outlined above)
--Logistics Platoon (Standard)
--Mess Platoon (Standard)
-Tank Transporter Company (Standard) (As outlined above)
-Reserves Company (As per Line Company, without Headquarters)
-Heavy Armor Company 1
--Headquarters Platoon
---Signals Section (Standard)
---Mess Section (Standard)
---Mechanics Section: 1x Lead Mechanic, 24x Line Mechainics
--Heavy Armor Platoon 1
---Mechanics Section (Standard, As Detailed Above)
---Heavy Armor Squadron 1
----Heavy Tank 1: Commander (SGT) Main Gunner (SGT) Machine gunner 5x, Engineer (CPL), Driver, Loader.
----Heavy Tank 2
----Heavy Tank 3
----Heavy Tank 4
---Heavy Tank Squadron 2
---Heavy Tank Squadron 3
---Heavy Tank Squadron 4
--Heavy Tank Platoon 2
--Heavy Tank Platoon 3
--Heavy Tank Platoon 4
-Heavy Armor Company 2
-Heavy Armor Company 3
-Heavy Armor Company 4

LIGHT ARMOR BATALLION

(At this point your copy of the current report is destroyed due to a combination of sea air and coffee stains.)
 
Where are the KTW-2 in this situation? Are they included into artillery regiments or corps?
 
Would there even be that many heavy tanks in service at the moment?

Sounds like a pretty enormous expense for a country just out of a major war.
 
Huh. You know, when you break it down, regiments are a lot bigger on paper as opposed to how I see them in my mind's eye. Does our current organization of armored regiments (if we even have any) follow this model?
 
Light tanks are W-5/6 currently, and heavy tanks are what.. GK-3s?

Light tanks are either the already purchased W-2/3 or W-5/6; while heavy tanks are the GK-3 or SkW-1.

Where are the KTW-2 in this situation? Are they included into artillery regiments or corps?

KTW-2 are normally distributed to artillery regiments in company packets; that said most people in the Artillery Branch hate them because of how finicky they are. Getting a gun moved up is all well and good, but for the standing still and blasting the fuck out of someone, the KTW-2 falls short.

Would there even be that many heavy tanks in service at the moment?

Sounds like a pretty enormous expense for a country just out of a major war.

The tanks aren't available, but the money is. Of the 300~ regiments of line infantry that existed before the war, about 50 got annihilated to the point they couldn't be resuscitated, and the number of regular line infantry regiments (versus reserve regiments) went down from a hundred to about seventy.

Fact of the matter is, yeah, you got pummeled. The homeland didn't get wrecked, though, and the colonies are still fine too. Right now, tech is cheaper than bodies, and this formation is designed to replace a lot of bodies.

Huh. You know, when you break it down, regiments are a lot bigger on paper as opposed to how I see them in my mind's eye. Does our current organization of armored regiments (if we even have any) follow this model?

No; what you have are three mechanized regiments that have two battalions of mobile infantry (ie: ride in trucks) one battalion of light tanks, and one battalion of SPG and mobile artillery. They're not happy campers, either.
 
that said most people in the Artillery Branch hate them because of how finicky they are. Getting a gun moved up is all well and good, but for the standing still and blasting the fuck out of someone, the KTW-2 falls short.

Huh, didn't realize we fucked up the SPG contest that much.
 
Huh, didn't realize we fucked up the SPG contest that much.

Honestly its limitations of technology and expectations versus reality. An SPG crew can't drop stakes and just keep swapping guys for lunch and haul up new ammo limbers, so that reduces hours of endurance. A normal battery with supply line can do six rounds a minute for 24 hours. An SPG battery with supply line can do eight rounds a minute for three hours. Its a difference in role that adaptations are happening to.
 
No; what you have are three mechanized regiments that have two battalions of mobile infantry (ie: ride in trucks) one battalion of light tanks, and one battalion of SPG and mobile artillery. They're not happy campers, either.

Can we preserve these regiments as-is?
Considering that they're going to get some new Wanderers instead of their W-2s & W-5s shortly, replace the trucks with somewhat armored trucks (With MGs on top!) and we should get good enough motorized infantry regiments.
 
Can we preserve these regiments as-is?
Considering that they're going to get some new Wanderers instead of their W-2s & W-5s shortly, replace the trucks with somewhat armored trucks (With MGs on top!) and we should get good enough motorized infantry regiments.

I mean, most regiments have at least one deviation from the ToE that's fairly glaring, so two regiments that are way off base isn't too odd. Mobile Infantry as a concept is gaining some ground in the Young Corps of officers, so there probably going to be a roll later to see how doctrine shifts and if any more mobility-based units spring up.
 
So @7734 asked me to call this so he could actually do something aside from smash his head against a novel.

So I'm calling the vote.
Adhoc vote count started by NothingNow on Jul 18, 2018 at 8:40 PM, finished with 671 posts and 7 votes.

  • [X] Plan Unterderseepanzer
    -[X] Approve the MrW-5, the KTW-3, Np-1, Ukw-1, and Armind for testing.
    -[X] Non-aquatic testing:
    --[X]Mobility and endurance testing: Drive the tank through simulated tactical environment, recording failures, stoppages, etc, until unable to be repaired by crew or out of fuel.
    --[X]Main armament testing: Shoot the 7.5cm gun at testing targets, gauging accuracy at various marked ranges and the effect on a target at those ranges.
    --[X]Defensive armament testing: The tank must fire on targets arranged around it from all directions, at various ranges, some partially occluded by terrain in a timed test. All weapons and movement allowed.
    --[X]Durability testing: Fire small arms, machine guns, and test explosive detonations near vehicles at various angles. Use pigs as standins for crew and leave engine idling to determine risk of engine failure due to enemy fire.
 
Contest 4: Testing 2 Results
Getting right into the next round of testing, things got started right off with an endurance test. You had high hopes for the light designs, mostly due to the fact that they couldn't possibly be worse than what you'd already tested out.

For this test, your control was a W-5, which ran for eight hours on the standard fuel load of seventy liters plus a pair of twenty-liter ferry pannier tanks mounted to the top. During this time, there would be an average of thirty six breakdowns or maintenance periods. Of these, four would involve operating the pannier tanks and dismounting them, one would be adjusting the track from ferry mode to run mode, one would be installing new leading road wheels, twenty four would be track failures, two would be crew related, and four would be related to the engine.

Once you'd sent Hansonson a thank-you note for the information and a bottle of vino, you got to work with the testing. All the entrants were fueled to one hundred and ten liters of fuel by means of a full main tank and panniers as necessary, or by just fueling the main tank.

First to drop out was the Armid, at six hours twenty minutes run time with fifty breakdowns. Since it only had a forty liter main tank, it needed four pannier tanks to get up to an acceptable load. Over it's run time, it had forty track issues, ten cases where the crew needed to stop moving and open every hatch possible to vent the tank due to fumes build up, and one issue in getting the pannier tanks to feed correctly.

Next up was the KTW-3, with one hundred and twenty liters of internal fuel storage. During its seven hour run, it suffered no less than ten engine and transmission failures, eighteen track failures, five crew breaks due to the difficulty of operating the system, and one emergency evacuation when the engine managed to catch itself on fire. Had there been a full load of ammunition or any fuel pannier tanks, the entire vehicle may have caught itself on fire and suffered a detonation of the ammunition.

Third to drop out was the Np-1. For fuel, it carried a hundred and twenty liters in three internal tanks, and lasted eight hours for driving. During the eight hour run, it suffered twenty four failures of the tracks and suspension, five engine failures, one crew shift to relieve the driver, and one incident where it ran over a burried and undetonated hand grenade causing it to lose a bellcrank- although this didn't end the test, surprisingly enough. The Np-1 team had devised an emergency track runner, good for three hours of operation, which while unsprung would also bolt into the standard bellcrank mounting mechanism to make self-recovery easier.

At this point, things had been running at ten hours of operation, and crew fatuige radically changed the distribution of accidents.

The next dropout was the Ukw-1 team, clocking in at ten hours and twenty minutes of continuous operation off the tank's internal one hundred and fifty five liter tank. For their run, they had forty five track incidents, three crew rotations, five issues with the engine, two instances of needing external assistance to un-ditch (normally the other Ukw-1 with it's tow hook) and one rather memorable instance of ramming the KTW-3 left on the field after dark and knocking it over.

The last vehicle to leave the field was the MrW-5, with a record eleven hours of endurance off of it's one hundred and fifty liter's of combined tanks. In operation, it had thirty eight track incidents, nine unditching incidents, four motor incidents, five crew rotations, and one memorable case of obstacle crossing when the MrW-5 rammed into the Ukw-1 that had rammed into the KTW-3.

Two days later, after Mair had set up a range, came the protective trial. Due to space limitations, your self-defense trials couldn't be preformed due to the needs of a giant circular range. Offensive trials were also tabled because there were only two new entrants, and it turned out Mair had managed to get an entire company to voulenteer for the testing. Not something you could brush off, that.

The test plan was simple. The tank would be parked two hundred meters from an entrenched platoon, which would open fire for two minutes. The tank would then be checked, and the platoon would resume fire, now with it's organic non-rifle assets such as light machine guns. After each check for functionality of the vehicle, more assets would be included, up to the batallion's organic 3,5cm guns or the regiment's 5,5s.

First up was the endurance champion, the MrW-5, and the results were rather disappointing. With the engine showing considerable wear after the light machine gunners and company mortars, the vehicle fell apart in the face of the company's heavy machine gun battery. Considering that the anti-tank machine guns were a battalion level asset nor were the company's anti-tank rifles employed, questions were loudly raised as to the vehicle's suitability to serve as an armored vehicle.

Continuing in reverse order from the endurance test, the Ukw-1 was put up on the stand. The platoon-level weapons test consisting of rifles, autorifles, light machine guns, and rifle-launched grenades was weathered with nothing more than scratched paint, as well as some mild spalling that the tank's internal liner caught admirably. Company level weapons were slightly more devastating- the 6cm light mortar caused some notable roof damage on it's one direct hit, and the anti-tank rifles and heavy machine guns only caused some severe spalling, and a handful of penetrations. Considering that the engine was running and the 'crew' dummies were only lightly injured, the decision was made to continue on up to battalion weapons. The 3,5cm gun, when firing shell didn't produce any serious damage besides a ruined track and severe spalling into a fuel tank, but when loaded with slug rounds neatly punctured the upper glacis, destroying the driver's position and continuing on through two firewalls into the engine compartment. This ended the testing, and the Seebatalioners conducting the test were quite happy with the result.

The Np-1 had a very lackluster test, unfortunately. The platoon weapons definitively shredded the forward bouyant compartments, and caused severe spalling on the internal bulkhead. Company level anti-tank weapons fairly definitively killed it, with the anti-tank riflemen managing to destroy both the driving compartment and disable the gun via a shot into the cheek that cracked a recoil cylinder. Observer noises were mediocre in response.

The KTW-3's performance was very disapointing, considering the fact a platoon grenadier managed to somehow lob an incendiary grenade into the tank's open top and set the fuel supplies on fire. After replacing the pork slabs and extinguishing the embers, it turned out the front could be very reliably pierced by company level anti-tank rifles. Observing Seebatalion officers were very unhappy, with several exchange officers from the Sumpfratten muttering in strange tongues from the Volta region to hide their thoughts.

The final tank, the Armid, had a surprisingly exceptional run. While platoon and company weapons managed to suppress and disable the top-mounted 8,8cm gun, the main hull compartment managed to remain mostly unbreached until dedicated mortar and anti-tank machine gun fire was brought to bear. When the regimental 3,5cm guns were towed about, shell was also found to be highly ineficent, as it blew through the outer shell of armor, but couldn't disable the engine nor kill the driver. Slug rounds were likewise ineffective, although this was more a question of shot placement than penetration- one managed to go through and through the bow compartment. When the regimental 5,5cm got called in to finally finish the job, though, you and the observers had to applaud as three shells turned the tank into scrap. You would probably need to track down the stills taken by the regimental photographers, though.

With this phase of testing done, you handed over the tanks to Mair, and got to reading the dispatches. There was a shocker, though- the War College wanted to you to come in for a speech on armor and the future of armor to one of it's graduating classes, and a paper to go with it. Good thing you had the next week free!

(PLAN VOTE: You're doing a white paper on current and possible future armor. Include at least two main points Don't be afraid to express your opinion. The GM uses this to find out what gets built next)

[]: Plan Name
-[] Current armor trends are GOOD (write in how/why)
-[] Current armor trends are BAD (write in how/why)
-[] Future armor trends are... (Write in what you expect/want to see)
 
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Provisional plan for discussion:

[ ] The New Cavalry
-[ ] Current armor trends are GOOD
--[ ] New suspensions and similar advances create a completely new means of exploiting weaknesses in enemy positions.
--[ ] Armor levels are becoming sufficient to defeat company-level infantry forces with platoon-level armored formations.
--[ ] Greater presence on the battlefield through larger numbers allows armored support on a tactical, not just strategic, scale.
-[ ] Future armor trends are
--[ ] Going to see the rise of more mobile support assets to follow an armored breakthrough.
--[ ] Going to drive towards mobility and mechanical reliability as a means of getting greater utility out of tanks and tank units.
--[ ] Going to see the rise of tank-hunting vehicles to react to enemy armor.

What do you guys think?
 
[]Plan Less Landship
-[] Current armor trends are GOOD in that the modern tank performs admirably as a heavier asset to an armored car or cavalry group for pushes where the front is weak, employing their heavier armor to last long enough to plow through to enemy lines. They are plenty for the present needs and those of the last war.
-[] Current armor trends are BAD for nearly everything else, however - Their rather deficient speed makes them unsuited to rapid changes in the battlefield, a problem if those shifts are significant enough to suddenly necessitate a tank push where only armored cars and horses are present. They are not going to be sufficient in more mobile warfare.
-[] To preface any future change in armor doctrine, one must consider the future battlefield that a tank will have to operate on. The proliferation of automatic and semiautomatic weapons at an infantry scale invalidating the mounted soldier for a lack of protection against automatic fire, while aerial attack will become rapidly more capable of attacks with gun and bomb against ground targets, necessitating a vehicle that can handle bomb detonation or machine gun fire without trouble - something the present armored car cannot achieve without losing its mobility. To handle the obsoletion of the armored car and the cavalry group, Armor will have to adopt their present roles. The cavalry tank and infantry tank split is a natural precursor to this, with the cavalry tank acting similarly to cavalry as a fast reaction force and one used to maneuver rapidly around enemy heavy formations, while the infantry tank is more or less what the present tank was developed for. This does, however, leave the role of the armored car unfilled, indicating that a third split of the tank will be needed, creating a sort of average between the cavalry tank's high speed and compact size but lack of armor and the infantry tank's heavy armor and armament but lacking speed or subtlety. This average tank will have to be as the armored car has been - faster than its heavier peers, but still protected well against lower intensities of combat and able to deliver enough firepower to matter against it's peers in the enemy armies.

This plan is less of the detail shown in your plan @Himmelhand but is more focussed on doctrinal and conceptual changes in the role of the tank, not its function. On another note, I don't really focus on how the regularity of tank presence might change on the battlefield or affect it, as that is something I felt didn't really fit with the core point of my future section, and changes don't fit with the present comments of the GOOD and BAD sections. Similarly, I ignore the role of the tank destroyer, as while it will be relevant, it is never going to be a generally used vehicle due to specialization.
 
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Couple of small issues, here.

Also, table in the pipe with Winged One having the stat blocks.

[X]Plan Less Landship
-[X] Current armor trends are BAD for nearly everything else, however - Their rather deficient speed makes them unsuited to rapid changes in the battlefield, a problem if those shifts are significant enough to suddenly necessitate a tank push where only armored cars and horses are present. They are not going to be sufficient in more mobile warfare.
For starters, cavalry and the (anemic) armored car branches didn't actually get much done of note. The mobile fronts of the war were very much second-fiddle to the immobile fronts, either being the island-counter-island hopping going on in the south, the push back through the Werser territory, or the Carrigian campaign.
while aerial attack will become rapidly more capable of attacks with gun and bomb against ground targets
Most airborne craft here are teathered artillery spotting balloons or self-powered dirigibles mounting an anti-tank machine gun for the hunting of such. Powered flight is currently not past unarmed reconnaissance.
This does, however, leave the role of the armored car unfilled,
This is a non-issue, since the current High Command didn't see much use out of their armored cars. The Wersers, meanwhile, are big into them, but you're not pitching something to them.

--[ ] Going to see the rise of tank-hunting vehicles to react to enemy armor.

Currently anti-tank rifles are sufficient, and if they're not dismounted guns seem to be capable. Don't hold your breath here.
 
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