7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
This may not have the result you intended...
Strategic Arms Quest 3/2: Armor Edition
- Thread starter 7734
- Start date
- Original
This may not have the result you intended...
- Location
- City of Magnificent Intentions
Do you know if it would be practical to use two layers of armor to get the best effects of both? I.e. an outer hardened layer to provide protection, and an inner layer of softer steel to minimize spalling.
- Location
- USA
Pretty sure that just gives you the worst of both. The softer plate has to be welded or bolted on to the back of the hardened plate unless you want to make construction costs for the armor literally quintuple. Then there's a very real chance that being hit will cause the softer rear plate to just fly off.
If CoaDE has taught me anything, it's a well-crafted multilayer armor scheme can do wonders against projectiles, and a poorly crafted one just wastes money and weight. That said, I don't know enough about tank history and haven't done anything targeted against that projectiles equivalent to what it would be facing, so I can't really comment on whether something doable at this technology level would be of any use.
My suspicion is that we'll be hard pressed to find something light enough to use, simple enough to produce and good enough to matter.
My suspicion is that we'll be hard pressed to find something light enough to use, simple enough to produce and good enough to matter.
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Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
Honestly, I think the best we can do is proof against shrapnel and proofed against standard rifle and machine gun bullets and maybe similar caliber armor piercing ammo.
If we're fortunate, we may also be able to reasonably deflect higher caliber anti-tank rifle rounds/heavy machine gun rounds, but at a 90 degree slope, a roughly .50 AT rifle will probably go through any armor we can reasonably slap on.
Gun Jesus does some rudimentary testing:
If we're fortunate, we may also be able to reasonably deflect higher caliber anti-tank rifle rounds/heavy machine gun rounds, but at a 90 degree slope, a roughly .50 AT rifle will probably go through any armor we can reasonably slap on.
Gun Jesus does some rudimentary testing:
- Location
- Brisbane
[X]Plan Caterpillar
-[X]Entire vehicle must be armored and proofed against shell splinters and small-arms/machine gun fire; if necessary, sides and rear can merely be bullet-resistant.
-[X]Should be of an appropriate weight and size to be transportable via standard rail flat-cars, if at all possible.
-[X]Should be able to keep up with an infantry advance and be able to traverse broken ground (trenches, shell craters, barbed wire, mud, etc) without becoming bogged down or stuck (too often, anyway).
-[X]Armament should be sufficient for suppressing or neutralizing enemy strong-points and trench lines and ideally utilize weapons already being produced by our war industries.
This seems the most realistic plan.
-[X]Entire vehicle must be armored and proofed against shell splinters and small-arms/machine gun fire; if necessary, sides and rear can merely be bullet-resistant.
-[X]Should be of an appropriate weight and size to be transportable via standard rail flat-cars, if at all possible.
-[X]Should be able to keep up with an infantry advance and be able to traverse broken ground (trenches, shell craters, barbed wire, mud, etc) without becoming bogged down or stuck (too often, anyway).
-[X]Armament should be sufficient for suppressing or neutralizing enemy strong-points and trench lines and ideally utilize weapons already being produced by our war industries.
This seems the most realistic plan.
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7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
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Last edited:
- Location
- Somewhere
Needs plan voting. Here!
Because y'all want to talk tanks, you can talk tanks in real time with real people.
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Say hello to Tanks.
Contest 1: Current Entrants
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
After sending out your Request for Quotes, you had about two days to take it easy in your apartment and get used to Luneberg, capital of the Iriomic Empire. The food was excelent, the wine was good, and they even spoke one of the less headache-inducing varieties of Eromes for day to day use.
Then the shit hit your desk and you had to duck for cover, because whew boy it was about to start flying thick in here.
First up was the (I)AV-4; a license production model of the Werser's own AV-3 breakthrough vehicle built by Thryssen. Vaguely lozenge-shaped, it had been upgraded slightly to meet your specifications of a seperate engine compartment and increased protection to allow operators to work without their heavy protective gear. With a twelve-millimeter front plate and six-millimeter sides, it had proven itself to be resistant to rifle fire at effectively point-blank range from the bow, as well as the sides. For weapons, they carried two older 55mm guns cut down to forty calibers to meet train carrying requirements, as well as six Schneider machine guns in double mounts. It used one V8 inline internal combustion spark-fired gasoline engine, and had four 150-liter tanks for fuel mounted high in the frame to allow for gravity feed. Two were made available for independent testing.
Next was a domestic design, happily enough. The GK-1 was designed and built by Reinhardt Industries, located in the northern empire near the Wesser border. Where the (I)AV-4 was very lozenge-y, the GK-1 planned on handling trenches mostly by sheer stubbornness, having a long track base and a very rear-heavy design so half the vehicle could overhang the trench, wherin the front tracks would then pull it up. Aside from that, it's boat-ish hull seemed very likely to deflect fire, with a composite 16mm plate in the front and 8mm plates everywhere except the engine compartment, weighed down by the same plates as the bow. Reinhardt says its capable of crossing an infantry trench without issue, but the representative didn't have data on what trenches it crossed. Arms-wise, it had a short-barrel 75mm bow gun, as well as three Mg.58 machine guns in hull mounts. For propulsion, it uses a large three-cylinder hot bulb engine by Ursus, equipped with an automatic bulb-warmer to allow the engines to be in a sealed compartment. With three 200-litre tanks carrying heavy bunker oil, the designers claimed the vertible landship could run for ten hours, and idle for an indefinite time if the tanks were refilled with the engine running. One prototype with boilerplate armor was provided, as well as one preproduction model for testing.
Last up was the… radical… design proposal by Wanderer (who had no shame in shilling it to you over dinner) based around his new compression-ignition engine by some lunatics referred to only as "Rudolf and Vinny", a Iriom who'd grown up with his Kuba family over there until before the last war started between the Balkhs and Wersers started up and his rather… dynamic… helper who apparently had more muscles than even Schwarzenegger and could toss engine blocks like a shotput. The vehicle in question was supposed to be a 'vehiclette', a three-and-change ton scooter propelled by a nine-cylinder internal combustion compression fired engine. Considering it only had a crew of two lying on their stomachs, one to drive and the other to fire the Mg.58, you couldn't be surprised by the designation! Still, what it might lack in size, it made up for in armor- a fourteen millimeter bow sheet, an additional 6mm mantlet over the gun, and seven millimeter sides. More importantly, it could nigh-on stand on its tail in a trench, and climb its way out that way- and Wanderer had photographs to prove it, even if the trenches were a tad on the small side. The engines would be built by Wanderer AG, the hulls would be cast nearly whole by Thryssen, and final assembly would happen in the Daimler Panzerfahrzeug facility. Unfortunately, Wanderer didn't have much to give you for testing: 'only' four prototype models, two pre-production models with boilerplate, and one 'production' model with a hand-cast hull done by an old foundry outside of Thorn.
Once you got your legs under you from the reviews, you obviously needed to do some testing. For this, you tapped on your two military advisors.
von Eberhart had a frankly simplistic view on armored vehicle testing, one you wished you could so blithely share. Run the 'tank' (A shorthand from Schwarzenager, since it was like being in a metal tank with a hundred gnomes banging on it with hammers) until it broke, shoot the guns until they blew, and repeat in various orders and variations until you knew about how well they worked. If you had a spare one when that was done, shoot the shit out of it with whatever was handy (including other tanks) and see what happened to some sides of pork in there in various states of dress and armoring.
Schwarzenegger had a very different opinion of testing. Endurance testing was all well and good, but the tanks needed to be subjected to enemy fire, and lots of it. Machine guns, rifles, small bore artillery, large bore artillery, it didn't matter- apply bullet until the tank broke down and stop, end of story. The guns and engine could be presumed to work (more accurately, it would break down anyway) and the capabilities to be repaired with and without a repair crew needed to be evaluated. He was especially aggravated with poor track design, claiming that if you expected them not to get stolen after a failed assault then the crew themselves needed to be able to re-track the tank in less than a half-hour. Apparently, the Balkhs provincial troops thought the tank-drivers were some sort of demon, and would attack a downed tank ferociously and attempt to set it on fire, which afterwards the regular troops would tow back to Headquarters for restoration. It certainly painted an interesting picture of the front, to say the least.
Right now, though, you had to get a plan together for testing. What was your plan?
((This is a PLAN VOTE; suggested categories include [] Endurance Testing, [] Armor Testing, [] Repair Testing, [] Weapons Testing, and a few others. GM reserves right of plan refusal.))
Then the shit hit your desk and you had to duck for cover, because whew boy it was about to start flying thick in here.
First up was the (I)AV-4; a license production model of the Werser's own AV-3 breakthrough vehicle built by Thryssen. Vaguely lozenge-shaped, it had been upgraded slightly to meet your specifications of a seperate engine compartment and increased protection to allow operators to work without their heavy protective gear. With a twelve-millimeter front plate and six-millimeter sides, it had proven itself to be resistant to rifle fire at effectively point-blank range from the bow, as well as the sides. For weapons, they carried two older 55mm guns cut down to forty calibers to meet train carrying requirements, as well as six Schneider machine guns in double mounts. It used one V8 inline internal combustion spark-fired gasoline engine, and had four 150-liter tanks for fuel mounted high in the frame to allow for gravity feed. Two were made available for independent testing.
Next was a domestic design, happily enough. The GK-1 was designed and built by Reinhardt Industries, located in the northern empire near the Wesser border. Where the (I)AV-4 was very lozenge-y, the GK-1 planned on handling trenches mostly by sheer stubbornness, having a long track base and a very rear-heavy design so half the vehicle could overhang the trench, wherin the front tracks would then pull it up. Aside from that, it's boat-ish hull seemed very likely to deflect fire, with a composite 16mm plate in the front and 8mm plates everywhere except the engine compartment, weighed down by the same plates as the bow. Reinhardt says its capable of crossing an infantry trench without issue, but the representative didn't have data on what trenches it crossed. Arms-wise, it had a short-barrel 75mm bow gun, as well as three Mg.58 machine guns in hull mounts. For propulsion, it uses a large three-cylinder hot bulb engine by Ursus, equipped with an automatic bulb-warmer to allow the engines to be in a sealed compartment. With three 200-litre tanks carrying heavy bunker oil, the designers claimed the vertible landship could run for ten hours, and idle for an indefinite time if the tanks were refilled with the engine running. One prototype with boilerplate armor was provided, as well as one preproduction model for testing.
Last up was the… radical… design proposal by Wanderer (who had no shame in shilling it to you over dinner) based around his new compression-ignition engine by some lunatics referred to only as "Rudolf and Vinny", a Iriom who'd grown up with his Kuba family over there until before the last war started between the Balkhs and Wersers started up and his rather… dynamic… helper who apparently had more muscles than even Schwarzenegger and could toss engine blocks like a shotput. The vehicle in question was supposed to be a 'vehiclette', a three-and-change ton scooter propelled by a nine-cylinder internal combustion compression fired engine. Considering it only had a crew of two lying on their stomachs, one to drive and the other to fire the Mg.58, you couldn't be surprised by the designation! Still, what it might lack in size, it made up for in armor- a fourteen millimeter bow sheet, an additional 6mm mantlet over the gun, and seven millimeter sides. More importantly, it could nigh-on stand on its tail in a trench, and climb its way out that way- and Wanderer had photographs to prove it, even if the trenches were a tad on the small side. The engines would be built by Wanderer AG, the hulls would be cast nearly whole by Thryssen, and final assembly would happen in the Daimler Panzerfahrzeug facility. Unfortunately, Wanderer didn't have much to give you for testing: 'only' four prototype models, two pre-production models with boilerplate, and one 'production' model with a hand-cast hull done by an old foundry outside of Thorn.
Once you got your legs under you from the reviews, you obviously needed to do some testing. For this, you tapped on your two military advisors.
von Eberhart had a frankly simplistic view on armored vehicle testing, one you wished you could so blithely share. Run the 'tank' (A shorthand from Schwarzenager, since it was like being in a metal tank with a hundred gnomes banging on it with hammers) until it broke, shoot the guns until they blew, and repeat in various orders and variations until you knew about how well they worked. If you had a spare one when that was done, shoot the shit out of it with whatever was handy (including other tanks) and see what happened to some sides of pork in there in various states of dress and armoring.
Schwarzenegger had a very different opinion of testing. Endurance testing was all well and good, but the tanks needed to be subjected to enemy fire, and lots of it. Machine guns, rifles, small bore artillery, large bore artillery, it didn't matter- apply bullet until the tank broke down and stop, end of story. The guns and engine could be presumed to work (more accurately, it would break down anyway) and the capabilities to be repaired with and without a repair crew needed to be evaluated. He was especially aggravated with poor track design, claiming that if you expected them not to get stolen after a failed assault then the crew themselves needed to be able to re-track the tank in less than a half-hour. Apparently, the Balkhs provincial troops thought the tank-drivers were some sort of demon, and would attack a downed tank ferociously and attempt to set it on fire, which afterwards the regular troops would tow back to Headquarters for restoration. It certainly painted an interesting picture of the front, to say the least.
Right now, though, you had to get a plan together for testing. What was your plan?
((This is a PLAN VOTE; suggested categories include [] Endurance Testing, [] Armor Testing, [] Repair Testing, [] Weapons Testing, and a few others. GM reserves right of plan refusal.))
Rat King
Izutsumi-pilled
[x]Shoot the Shit
-[X]Request additional testing models
-[X]Mobility Testing (see how mobile they actually are), combined with Repair Testing for when they break down.
-[X]Armor Testing, wherein we shoot the shit out of them with any available enemy small-arms we have on hand, as well as simulated near-misses from artillery fire, grenades, and other weapons, with pigs/bacon inside
--[X]Combine with additional repair testing to see how well crews can potentially repair battle damage.
--[X]Once initial armor and repair testing is concluded, see how they respond to direct fire from enemy field guns, ranging from light infantry guns up to heavier field pieces for the purposes of seeing how and if they'll burn and if direct hits might be potentially survivable
-[X]Request additional testing models
-[X]Mobility Testing (see how mobile they actually are), combined with Repair Testing for when they break down.
-[X]Armor Testing, wherein we shoot the shit out of them with any available enemy small-arms we have on hand, as well as simulated near-misses from artillery fire, grenades, and other weapons, with pigs/bacon inside
--[X]Combine with additional repair testing to see how well crews can potentially repair battle damage.
--[X]Once initial armor and repair testing is concluded, see how they respond to direct fire from enemy field guns, ranging from light infantry guns up to heavier field pieces for the purposes of seeing how and if they'll burn and if direct hits might be potentially survivable
globalwarmth
ruining the weather.
- Location
- Polar ice caps
[x]Shoot the Shit
ah simpler times, where ballistic gel was non existent and casual animal cruelty was the only way.
ah simpler times, where ballistic gel was non existent and casual animal cruelty was the only way.
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TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I like the look of all of these to be honest, though I worry about the ability of the GK-1 to actually get itself back out of trenches if it's super back heavy, as it could tilt backwards into a trench even if most of it was on solid ground past the trench, but I'd expect it to be dead reliable. Furthermore, the Wanderer Vehiclette looks like the most practically promising for defense and mobility, though its unproven engine technology and lack of a heavy armament are to its detriment, and the crew isn't terribly comfortably placed as lying down like that can't be pleasant. Finally, the AV-4's biggest problem to me is its bulk, being very much resembling of the world war 1 classic british landships. As such, I propose the following.
[X]Plan Scientifically Rigorous Abuse
-[X]Endurance testing - crew the vehicle and start the engine at a normal operating speed and set it to drive forward over rough terrain, prepared with explosives to create craters and some trenches. Every minute or so, the tank is to do a hard turn of variable size to judge ability to rotate to confront targets. When a breakdown occurs, Record time after initial startup that it happened, as well as what was happening at the time (eg turning, driving straight, changing speeds) and how long it took to fix. This test go continue until 24 hours or a breakdown occurs that cannot be repaired without specialized tools or several hours of time. If the tanks breaks such that it cannot be repaired from within the vehicle, the crew may exit it to repair the failure, but if it takes longer than 20 minutes to complete, the test ends.
-[X]Armor testing - After fixing any damage to the engine from the endurance testing, set up a number of wooden panels within the tank, a few centimeters from the hull and in likely crew positions, as well as around the engine. Set the engine to idle, and begin to fire upon the tank, beginning with heavy machine gun fire. Every 30 seconds, halt fire and evaluate damage to both the vehicle's hull and the boards within. When the hull is evaluated as sufficiently degraded to no longer be able to withstand fire or the wood boards are significantly damaged, the vehicle is moved to repair testing. If it withstands 4 minutes of firing periods, light explosives will be detonated in proximity twice every period, and after 8 minutes, direct hits will be added at a rate of one hit per 30 second cycle.
-[X]Repair testing - Have repair crews fix the tank up as best they can - note what tools they need to use and how long it takes them. If the engine cannot be made operational without removing it from the vehicle, the tank has failed this test entirely.
-[X]Endurance testing, part 2 - same procedure as last time, but now with the repaired tank. If it doesn't go any more, then the vehicle has failed this test.
-[X]Weapons testing - With engine in idle, fire weapons. Record the arcs of fire of the weapons, accuracy from within the vehicle, and any failures they experience. If weapons prove functional after earlier tests, have them fire upon a set of steel plates of equivalent thicknesses to those of the most heavily armored tank presently available - that is, a seven millimeter sheet, a 14 millimeter sheet, and a 20 millimeter sheet.
-[X]This is to be done with as many vehicles as are available of each type, with priority for those made as would be built under mass production.
Note that I put Weapons testing after repair and armor testing, as if the guns don't work after being beaten and fixed, it's worthless. Additionally, I included a second endurance testing period to determine how far the vehicle's performance degrades with use and abuse. I think this covers everything.
[X]Plan Scientifically Rigorous Abuse
-[X]Endurance testing - crew the vehicle and start the engine at a normal operating speed and set it to drive forward over rough terrain, prepared with explosives to create craters and some trenches. Every minute or so, the tank is to do a hard turn of variable size to judge ability to rotate to confront targets. When a breakdown occurs, Record time after initial startup that it happened, as well as what was happening at the time (eg turning, driving straight, changing speeds) and how long it took to fix. This test go continue until 24 hours or a breakdown occurs that cannot be repaired without specialized tools or several hours of time. If the tanks breaks such that it cannot be repaired from within the vehicle, the crew may exit it to repair the failure, but if it takes longer than 20 minutes to complete, the test ends.
-[X]Armor testing - After fixing any damage to the engine from the endurance testing, set up a number of wooden panels within the tank, a few centimeters from the hull and in likely crew positions, as well as around the engine. Set the engine to idle, and begin to fire upon the tank, beginning with heavy machine gun fire. Every 30 seconds, halt fire and evaluate damage to both the vehicle's hull and the boards within. When the hull is evaluated as sufficiently degraded to no longer be able to withstand fire or the wood boards are significantly damaged, the vehicle is moved to repair testing. If it withstands 4 minutes of firing periods, light explosives will be detonated in proximity twice every period, and after 8 minutes, direct hits will be added at a rate of one hit per 30 second cycle.
-[X]Repair testing - Have repair crews fix the tank up as best they can - note what tools they need to use and how long it takes them. If the engine cannot be made operational without removing it from the vehicle, the tank has failed this test entirely.
-[X]Endurance testing, part 2 - same procedure as last time, but now with the repaired tank. If it doesn't go any more, then the vehicle has failed this test.
-[X]Weapons testing - With engine in idle, fire weapons. Record the arcs of fire of the weapons, accuracy from within the vehicle, and any failures they experience. If weapons prove functional after earlier tests, have them fire upon a set of steel plates of equivalent thicknesses to those of the most heavily armored tank presently available - that is, a seven millimeter sheet, a 14 millimeter sheet, and a 20 millimeter sheet.
-[X]This is to be done with as many vehicles as are available of each type, with priority for those made as would be built under mass production.
Note that I put Weapons testing after repair and armor testing, as if the guns don't work after being beaten and fixed, it's worthless. Additionally, I included a second endurance testing period to determine how far the vehicle's performance degrades with use and abuse. I think this covers everything.
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TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The only thing that actually disqualifies a vehicle in this from the whole testing and competition is whether it works at all after an external crew fixes the thing. Everything else is "how fucked up does it get" - just a ton of gathering data.
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I mean yes, my plan will really mess up almost any tank, even a modern one, but that's the point! I want to know if it's possible to operate despite heavy damage, though 15 minutes of machine gun fire and 10 with artillery added is probably excessive for the purpose. How much less would you suggest I reduce it to?
- Location
- Somewhere
[X]Plan Scientifically Rigorous Abuse
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
The issue isn't reduction, the issue is data gathering. You're not getting a lot of measurable data here; you're just getting a pile of fail conditions. Any of these tanks will fail the machine gun fire test; hell, hose a plate down for three minutes of continuous fire and you'll likely shatter it, much less 15. Artillery will probably kill it flat out. You have a rigorous test; now you need a way to get useable information from it.
TortugaGreen
Constantly out of the loop
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The main flaw in the armor tests is that it's a continuous barrage, meaning you can't incrementally check for internal damage. An alternative would be to do a sort of "fire on it for a minute or less, hurry in and record damage, retreat and resume. Repeat until trashed" cycle wherein the vehicle is examined at multiple different times, so rather than "if we abuse it a ton, how much damage?" it would be "to damage it this much, how much abuse?" Essentially reversing what is being controlled and what is being measured. It should give more data in that format, as well as remaining thorough in testing the vehicle fully. That will be implemented into the plan, so be aware of this change @Michael Lewis
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- Location
- Germiston, South Africa
[x]Plan Simulation
-[x] Build or borrow (gotta be some bypassed/behind the lines trench somewhere) a trench structure. Should include hardpoints.
-[x] Ideal testing. The vehicle moves across the test range firing on targets attempting to reach the other side and 'kill' as many targets as possible.
-[x] Defense testing. Put the vehicle in the middle of the range with pork sides as crew and fire at it, starting with pistols and moving up to hmg with AP ammo. Include direct and angled fire from various ranges.
-[x] Heavy Defense. Move to an artillery training range and have friendly artillery put shells progressively closer to see when the vehicle is soft/hard killed.
-[x] Light Defense. Move to an infantry training area and have the infantry practice close assault on armor.
-[x] Bad Going testing. Repeat move/fire testing after getting artillery to chew up the test range. Include currently/ has rained conditions.
I included pistols because that one guy famously killed a pzII with a pistol.
-[x] Build or borrow (gotta be some bypassed/behind the lines trench somewhere) a trench structure. Should include hardpoints.
-[x] Ideal testing. The vehicle moves across the test range firing on targets attempting to reach the other side and 'kill' as many targets as possible.
-[x] Defense testing. Put the vehicle in the middle of the range with pork sides as crew and fire at it, starting with pistols and moving up to hmg with AP ammo. Include direct and angled fire from various ranges.
-[x] Heavy Defense. Move to an artillery training range and have friendly artillery put shells progressively closer to see when the vehicle is soft/hard killed.
-[x] Light Defense. Move to an infantry training area and have the infantry practice close assault on armor.
-[x] Bad Going testing. Repeat move/fire testing after getting artillery to chew up the test range. Include currently/ has rained conditions.
I included pistols because that one guy famously killed a pzII with a pistol.
Omake: The Future Looks Bright.
Author's note: I was kicking around ideas for ways we could go off the rails with armor technology early on, and silicon carbide came up because it's useful in composite armor and could be produced in bulk by the time we are at. I mentioned that, as another missed opportunity, a primitive LED made with it was accidentally discovered in 1907, but then basically no one followed up and nothing happened. I was told to do an omake if I wanted it to turn out differently in this universe.
Carborundum Lamps: the Future Looks Bright.
It had happened by pure chance, as such things do.
The Houk Radiotelegraphy Company, specialists in ship-based radio transmitters and receivers, had been quietly approached about the possibility of developing more compact, rugged and (perhaps most importantly) indigenously produced military radio equipment. Though slightly improved replacements for existing battalion level radios were the most crucial objective, Oskar Houk liked to consider himself something of a visionary, and had immediately moved on to the applications such a radio might have in future armored cars, destroyers and other small naval vessels, and even observation planes and balloons, not to mention the possibilities for the army if it could be made small and simple enough for a single soldier to carry, deploy and operate. He had immediately tasked his research devision with attempting to make his dream a reality, a process involving quite a bit more basic research than the relatively modest radios he had actually been asked to build.
This is how Reinhard Kuhn had ended up working on improved carborundum detectors.
Houk Radiotelegraphy had, in recent years, made heavy use of carborundum crystal detectors on their receivers. Carborundum seemed to be much less susceptible to accidental misalignment than other types of crystal detector, and over the past decade they had managed to refine detectors using it into a system that could often remain usable without adjustment for long periods even in the most vibration-heavy shipboard environments, with a relatively large contact held in place by a simple spring apparatus instead of a finicky cat's whisker. The resulting system was, for their application, vastly superior to the more common galena detectors, as well as alternate approaches such as electrolytic detectors and magnetic detectors. If it was a bit less sensitive than a galena detector, that could be compensated for with good engineering and was a small price to pay for it working when it was needed.
Still, room for improvement remained, and he had been tasked with trying to turn them into reliable, sealed components with no need for adjustment in ordinary usage. The basic approach was deceptively simple: use crystals of a more or less standardized size and shape, and put them in a tube with a contact on a spring and a screw on one end for the initial adjustment. The details weren't quite as trivial, but he thought he was well on his way to a usable design, even if he wasn't quite there yet.
One day, he was testing a new contact arrangement using about 10 volts of off a set of batteries when he noticed something very unusual: a faint, greenish light from the point of contact. It had startled him so much he'd bumped the contact and it disappeared. When re-adjusting the contact didn't immediately bring it back, he'd almost thought he'd imagined it. However, he was eventually able to get the light back, then to duplicate it with a loose crystal clamped in place and a simple needle as the contact.
He began testing other crystals. Crystal after crystal failed to produce light until finally, he found one other that worked. It was a dimmer glow, and more yellow than green, but it was there none the less. Soon, he learned that some other crystals would also produce light, but only at higher voltages, and that different crystals could produce the not just yellow and green, but also orange and blue light. He couldn't even begin to venture a guess at how it worked, but whatever it was, it was fascinating.
Reinhard started showing his curious discovery to the rest of the research devision the next day. Within a week, they were trying to make sense of why different crystals performed differently, and one more theoretically minded colleague was nurturing vague suspicions that the phenomenon had something to do with the thermoelectric effect, though he couldn't really explain why. A week after that, they had found some chemists to try to analyze crystals that did and did not work to see if any impurities could be identified that might play a role, and Reinhard had constructed a version of his self-contained detector apparatus featuring a glass tube with a reflector wrapped around the back. A week after that, they managed to observe a tiny but detectable voltage from the same types of contact point when they were exposed to bright light, and attempts to get more consistent crystals from their manufacturer where just starting to bear fruit.
When Oskar Houk burst into the laboratory wondering why so little progress was being made on the compact radio project, he instead left irrationally convinced that "carborundum lamps will one day light the world!". Budgets were increased, a new team was put together to work on the project officially, and the pace of progress somehow managed to increase, all despite the fact that no one had even a vague idea of a useful purpose for their discovery.
After a key breakthrough enabled more consistent crystals to be produced that would reliably glow with the same color at low voltage, things really started to come together. It became possibly to systematically investigate the phenomenon, and to seriously consider manufacturing "carborundum lamps" in quantity if the technology developed far enough to make them useful. Though they produced only a single bright speck of colored light, it turned out that they used remarkably little power and could switch between on and off much faster than an incandescent light. The idea of using them for indicators was suggested, though they were still expensive and dim enough for it to not be especially practical.
Someone from the small team investigating vacuum tubes suggested enclosing the entire apparatus in glass, which soon turned into using a contact bent to provide its own pressure, encased with the crystal in a solid lump of glass. Getting it to work correctly took a great deal of work, but the results were worth it: something like a bead of glass with a wire coming out of either end that, when a voltage was applied in the right direction, could be made to light up with an eerie glow. Half of the bead could be silvered like a mirror to increase the visibility, but even so no one would ever read by one, but it could be made surprisingly small and low power and seemed almost indestructible.
This was when the compact radio team got involved again. The idea was that even with the finest headsets, a radio operator could have trouble in a noisy environment. Battlefields are nothing if not noisy, let alone some of Houk's more outlandish ideas about where it might eventually prove useful. However, light didn't have this problem. A carborundum lamp, recessed and shielded enough to hopefully make it visible even in sunlight, could serve as a secondary indicator to let a trained radio operator copy code even when they stand little chance of hearing it. After some tinkering, a prototype proved the concept viable, though even with a great deal of practice the operators still disliked using it.
This also brought Reinhard back into closer contact with the team that had taken over his work. Soon, the progress that had been made in the design of the lamps was being applied to more resilient and compact detectors. Since light visibility wasn't a concern, the reflective coating was dropped, crystals were chosen that didn't glow, and the contact design was reworked somewhat yet again to produce something a bit sturdier and more easy to manufacture. They could also be made even smaller than Reinhard's previous design, and required only one machined part. Even if the actual technology involved wasn't anything new, it still felt like they were in the middle of a huge step forward.
Though Reinhard still doubted Houk's prediction, he found himself wondering just how far his discovery could be developed. The future looked bright.
Carborundum Lamps: the Future Looks Bright.
It had happened by pure chance, as such things do.
The Houk Radiotelegraphy Company, specialists in ship-based radio transmitters and receivers, had been quietly approached about the possibility of developing more compact, rugged and (perhaps most importantly) indigenously produced military radio equipment. Though slightly improved replacements for existing battalion level radios were the most crucial objective, Oskar Houk liked to consider himself something of a visionary, and had immediately moved on to the applications such a radio might have in future armored cars, destroyers and other small naval vessels, and even observation planes and balloons, not to mention the possibilities for the army if it could be made small and simple enough for a single soldier to carry, deploy and operate. He had immediately tasked his research devision with attempting to make his dream a reality, a process involving quite a bit more basic research than the relatively modest radios he had actually been asked to build.
This is how Reinhard Kuhn had ended up working on improved carborundum detectors.
Houk Radiotelegraphy had, in recent years, made heavy use of carborundum crystal detectors on their receivers. Carborundum seemed to be much less susceptible to accidental misalignment than other types of crystal detector, and over the past decade they had managed to refine detectors using it into a system that could often remain usable without adjustment for long periods even in the most vibration-heavy shipboard environments, with a relatively large contact held in place by a simple spring apparatus instead of a finicky cat's whisker. The resulting system was, for their application, vastly superior to the more common galena detectors, as well as alternate approaches such as electrolytic detectors and magnetic detectors. If it was a bit less sensitive than a galena detector, that could be compensated for with good engineering and was a small price to pay for it working when it was needed.
Still, room for improvement remained, and he had been tasked with trying to turn them into reliable, sealed components with no need for adjustment in ordinary usage. The basic approach was deceptively simple: use crystals of a more or less standardized size and shape, and put them in a tube with a contact on a spring and a screw on one end for the initial adjustment. The details weren't quite as trivial, but he thought he was well on his way to a usable design, even if he wasn't quite there yet.
One day, he was testing a new contact arrangement using about 10 volts of off a set of batteries when he noticed something very unusual: a faint, greenish light from the point of contact. It had startled him so much he'd bumped the contact and it disappeared. When re-adjusting the contact didn't immediately bring it back, he'd almost thought he'd imagined it. However, he was eventually able to get the light back, then to duplicate it with a loose crystal clamped in place and a simple needle as the contact.
He began testing other crystals. Crystal after crystal failed to produce light until finally, he found one other that worked. It was a dimmer glow, and more yellow than green, but it was there none the less. Soon, he learned that some other crystals would also produce light, but only at higher voltages, and that different crystals could produce the not just yellow and green, but also orange and blue light. He couldn't even begin to venture a guess at how it worked, but whatever it was, it was fascinating.
Reinhard started showing his curious discovery to the rest of the research devision the next day. Within a week, they were trying to make sense of why different crystals performed differently, and one more theoretically minded colleague was nurturing vague suspicions that the phenomenon had something to do with the thermoelectric effect, though he couldn't really explain why. A week after that, they had found some chemists to try to analyze crystals that did and did not work to see if any impurities could be identified that might play a role, and Reinhard had constructed a version of his self-contained detector apparatus featuring a glass tube with a reflector wrapped around the back. A week after that, they managed to observe a tiny but detectable voltage from the same types of contact point when they were exposed to bright light, and attempts to get more consistent crystals from their manufacturer where just starting to bear fruit.
When Oskar Houk burst into the laboratory wondering why so little progress was being made on the compact radio project, he instead left irrationally convinced that "carborundum lamps will one day light the world!". Budgets were increased, a new team was put together to work on the project officially, and the pace of progress somehow managed to increase, all despite the fact that no one had even a vague idea of a useful purpose for their discovery.
After a key breakthrough enabled more consistent crystals to be produced that would reliably glow with the same color at low voltage, things really started to come together. It became possibly to systematically investigate the phenomenon, and to seriously consider manufacturing "carborundum lamps" in quantity if the technology developed far enough to make them useful. Though they produced only a single bright speck of colored light, it turned out that they used remarkably little power and could switch between on and off much faster than an incandescent light. The idea of using them for indicators was suggested, though they were still expensive and dim enough for it to not be especially practical.
Someone from the small team investigating vacuum tubes suggested enclosing the entire apparatus in glass, which soon turned into using a contact bent to provide its own pressure, encased with the crystal in a solid lump of glass. Getting it to work correctly took a great deal of work, but the results were worth it: something like a bead of glass with a wire coming out of either end that, when a voltage was applied in the right direction, could be made to light up with an eerie glow. Half of the bead could be silvered like a mirror to increase the visibility, but even so no one would ever read by one, but it could be made surprisingly small and low power and seemed almost indestructible.
This was when the compact radio team got involved again. The idea was that even with the finest headsets, a radio operator could have trouble in a noisy environment. Battlefields are nothing if not noisy, let alone some of Houk's more outlandish ideas about where it might eventually prove useful. However, light didn't have this problem. A carborundum lamp, recessed and shielded enough to hopefully make it visible even in sunlight, could serve as a secondary indicator to let a trained radio operator copy code even when they stand little chance of hearing it. After some tinkering, a prototype proved the concept viable, though even with a great deal of practice the operators still disliked using it.
This also brought Reinhard back into closer contact with the team that had taken over his work. Soon, the progress that had been made in the design of the lamps was being applied to more resilient and compact detectors. Since light visibility wasn't a concern, the reflective coating was dropped, crystals were chosen that didn't glow, and the contact design was reworked somewhat yet again to produce something a bit sturdier and more easy to manufacture. They could also be made even smaller than Reinhard's previous design, and required only one machined part. Even if the actual technology involved wasn't anything new, it still felt like they were in the middle of a huge step forward.
Though Reinhard still doubted Houk's prediction, he found himself wondering just how far his discovery could be developed. The future looked bright.
Last edited:
SirLagginton
Shadow Cabal Caerbannog Bun-Bun
- Location
- Arrrghhh
[x]Shoot the Shit
7734
Trust and verify.
- Location
- Philmont
No update tonight, keep voting.
After contacting all the available dealers, you learn some things. A new AV-4 would cost roughly 450-525 Thalers of your 1875 budget. A new GK-1 would cost roughly 385-445 Thalers out of the same budget. Wanderer can't build any more models, and has given you all available units for testing, unless you get him a 1500 Thaler grant to produce another three-unit batch.
After contacting all the available dealers, you learn some things. A new AV-4 would cost roughly 450-525 Thalers of your 1875 budget. A new GK-1 would cost roughly 385-445 Thalers out of the same budget. Wanderer can't build any more models, and has given you all available units for testing, unless you get him a 1500 Thaler grant to produce another three-unit batch.