HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
You have around ~5 Federation Trained Choirs on the planet.
And I mixed up the Chamleons with Scouts. Stripping them will only murder your ability to send covert aid/infiltration things to Voxx primus/Secundus.
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
And I mixed up the Chamleons with Scouts. Stripping them will only murder your ability to send covert aid/infiltration things to Voxx primus/Secundus.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Just to clarify here, aren't we entering a stage where we'll be providing overt aid things?
That said, I do wanna strip the outdated Scout Ships, of which there are only five, of Choirs, and am asking whether the impact would really be that bad.
It'd be 5x Choirs at the loss of our least useful Scout ships, so we'd have 13+5+5 (on the scene) to send.
I'd say we should target the General. From prior updates he sounds one of the more competent ones here.
I also think we should boost the 5th Column to further reduce their casualties.
I can't remember if War Packs were more effective then SAGs on Voxx and if they are to what degree.
Which does include their children, seems to me. I'd rather not do that one.
Also on arming the workers and the like, yes lots will die early, but in a mirror of our own uprising, I think we owe them the dignity of choice, rather than trying to paternalistically protect them from fighting against their oppressors.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I feel like neglecting the 40+ Choirs we gained using specific efforts to gain them would be a mistake. I think at the very least we should include it as a, "In case of total disaster, please break glass" option.
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Yes, but you may still want to, ya know, supply the Hives you haven't yet taken over without being fully cut off.
And you can, but it would take away 17.8(57)% of your scouting capacity.
They would be the most effective forces you can send.
I will leave the fleets and SAG to others but my plan for triggers is thusly:
We will have DFS for when counter-attack will arrive and discord in SDF is a good thing for us and our fleet
[Narrative] Turned Officers - (When Lamenters start the takeover of Ringyards)
We lack the spies to really impact the morale, so knowing when and what powerful space force will do is vital for the battle in space.
I am not that great with numbers but I think that we should use our choirs early on mostly in support role, debuffing the enemy, healing and buffing us, maybe some of them being on watch out for plagues and chaos corruption among the civilians and maybe one choir finding tech for cogbois with a right song (that is if we can make new songs otherwise just helping civilians)
Wastes
- [Mechanical] Army of the Damned - SAG Convoy Guard or Scout Hive Defenses
- [Narrative] Paths through the Wastes
[Underhive]
- [Mechanical] The Armored Fifth Column - (Designate GENERAL Objectives)
- Taking over the logistical nodes (stairs, elevators and alike) and sabouter actions against the military, maybe finding away to find paths to outside hive or create some of them if we send engineers who can make tunnels
[Lower Hive]
- [Narrative] Arm the Enslaved - (No) - We aren't imperium to throw the untrained civilians to a meat grinder, especially with enforcers too busy trying to prevent chaos and Chaos to train them
- [Narrative] Stoke the Workers to Action - (Yes)
- [Narrative] Enforcers Turned - (Law Enforcers)
- [Mechanical] Attempt Shield Generator Subversion
- [Mechanical] Attempt To Break The Walls - (When Defenders learn about us trying to subvert Shield Generator or after we already subverted it)
[Middle Hive]
- [Mechanical] Moles in their Midsts - (Logistics/Communications)
- [Narrative] Break The Morale - (Civilians)
- [Mechanical] Mechanicus Deviancy - (Attempt Shield Generator Subversion)
[Upper Hive]
- [Mechanical] Templar Rampages - (Critical Infrastructure)
- [Narrative] Mass-Poisonings - (Nobles)
[Hive Spire]
- [Narrative] Targeted Assassinations (Admiral)
[Voxxian Ringyards]
- [Mechanical]Blow The Shield Generators
- [Narrative] Revolution In The Stars - (5 days before we blow up the shield generators)
[Defensive Void Stations]
[Mechanical] Turn The Guns AroundWe will have DFS for when counter-attack will arrive and discord in SDF is a good thing for us and our fleet
[PDF]
- [Mechanical] Hidden Moles - (Morale)
- [Narrative] Turned Officers - (When outer walls blow up and shield generator is taken over)
[SDF]
[Mechanical] Hidden Moles - (Communications)[Narrative] Turned Officers - (When Lamenters start the takeover of Ringyards)
We lack the spies to really impact the morale, so knowing when and what powerful space force will do is vital for the battle in space.
[Voxxian Choirs]
- [Mechanical] Use Songs - (No)
- [Mechanical] Use Melodies - (Yes)
[Federation Choirs]
[Mechanical] (Designate Numbers, Songs, And Behaviour For The Ground War)I am not that great with numbers but I think that we should use our choirs early on mostly in support role, debuffing the enemy, healing and buffing us, maybe some of them being on watch out for plagues and chaos corruption among the civilians and maybe one choir finding tech for cogbois with a right song (that is if we can make new songs otherwise just helping civilians)
- Pronouns
- They/Them
...was our entire design philosophy pointless? Like, somehow they contribute exactly as much per-ship costing effectively 0 DP as the 16 DP Scouts I designed.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[] Beacon of Liberty, Sword of Valor (The Trigger Plan)
-[] [Mechanical] Army of the Damned - Scout Hive Defenses
-[] [Narrative] Paths through the Wastes
-[] [Mechanical] The Armored Fifth Column -
--[] They are to open routes for those civilians who wish to flee, and focus on hitting key hardpoints that the enemy controls to keep them from regaining any balance.
-[] [Narrative] Arm the Enslaved - Yes, with a twist. When armed they are to focus as much as fleeing to the safety of our liberty's beacons/etc as they are to start shooting... because of course shooting their way out will EXPOSE the enemy defenses and DESTROY the enemy from an angle they might not have been expecting. Once there, we can easily feed them better than they were being fed before, and put them to work as farmers, industrial workers, or military recruits on the expanding industrial might of the revolution.
-[] [Narrative] Stoke the Workers to Action - Yes, similar to the above those in bad situations can and should carry out sabotage, steal key components, and if death is all they face... flee with these to boost the INDUSTRY of the REVOLUTION.
-[] [Narrative] Enforcers Turned - Law Enforcement
-[] [Mechanical] Attempt Shield Generator Subversion
-[][Mechanical] Attempt To Break The Walls -When? UNDECIDED
-[] [Mechanical] Middle Hive: Moles in their Midsts - Morale OR Communications
-[] [Narrative] Break The Morale - Civilians primarily, but focus on the 'there's a better life, or at least one not in the path of immediate violence, waiting for you' thing. Also make it clear you will accept PDF surrenders and give pardons to all soldiers and at least some officers, etc.
-[] [Mechanical] Mechanicus Deviancy - Subvert Shield Generators in Hives.
-[] [Mechanical] Templar Rampages - Officers OR Nobles
-[] [Narrative] Mass-Poisonings - Nobles
-[] [Narrative] Targeted Assassinations- Governor
-[] [Mechanical] Attempt To Blow The Shield Generators
-[] [Narrative] Revolution In The Stars - When the Lamenters start arriving is the key trigger to start helping them out!
-[] [Mechanical] Attempt To Blow The Plasma Generators
-[] [Mechanical] PDF Hidden Moles - Morale
-[] [Narrative] PDF Turned Officers - Turn Mid to Late game... but within each movement. That is to say, if a sub-sector is starting to fall to our side, that's when to start advertising the fact that mercy and food (or at least more food than they'll likely have) is available.
-[] [Mechanical] SDF Hidden Moles - Communications
-[] [Narrative] Turned Officers - Rely on middle-ranked officers, and when? Try to push them more towards encouraging surrender when things are bad rather than fighting to the last or self-destructing out of spite, etc, etc.
-[] [Mechanical] Use Songs - Yes, but only in moments of great strategic doubt, under the advisement of the Federation trained Choirs. And ONLY if none of them are immediately available/able to do the job. In almost all circumstances using the Federation Choirs is a better bet if it can be done, but there may come a time where they have to Sing a Song. If that is the case, be on the lookout for Chaos.
-[] [Mechanical] Use Melodies - Yes
-[] [Mechanical] (Designate Numbers, Songs, And Behaviour For The Ground War)--23 total, 5 (Federation trained) local, 5 from the oudated Scout Sloops, and 13 from the Free Choirs. "Break Their Chains" is to be used for strategic moments of destroying enemy cohesion or creating a fire in the rear, the Hide Song to obscure movements... or break off enemy communication, and the Bubble of Power to break any enemy Psyker attempts... or Chaos outbreaks. They're to be their brothers' keepers for the Voxxian Choirs, with full charge over them/etc, and discretion to do as they will.
Updated, even if it does lose an absurd percentage of our Scouting, I feel that it's worth it to have over half the number of Very Well Trained Choirs as we have of Voxxian Choirs, because it vastly reduces the frequency with which they'll be asked to "Break Glass" and use the Songs.
-[] [Mechanical] Army of the Damned - Scout Hive Defenses
-[] [Narrative] Paths through the Wastes
-[] [Mechanical] The Armored Fifth Column -
--[] They are to open routes for those civilians who wish to flee, and focus on hitting key hardpoints that the enemy controls to keep them from regaining any balance.
-[] [Narrative] Arm the Enslaved - Yes, with a twist. When armed they are to focus as much as fleeing to the safety of our liberty's beacons/etc as they are to start shooting... because of course shooting their way out will EXPOSE the enemy defenses and DESTROY the enemy from an angle they might not have been expecting. Once there, we can easily feed them better than they were being fed before, and put them to work as farmers, industrial workers, or military recruits on the expanding industrial might of the revolution.
-[] [Narrative] Stoke the Workers to Action - Yes, similar to the above those in bad situations can and should carry out sabotage, steal key components, and if death is all they face... flee with these to boost the INDUSTRY of the REVOLUTION.
-[] [Narrative] Enforcers Turned - Law Enforcement
-[] [Mechanical] Attempt Shield Generator Subversion
-[][Mechanical] Attempt To Break The Walls -When? UNDECIDED
-[] [Mechanical] Middle Hive: Moles in their Midsts - Morale OR Communications
-[] [Narrative] Break The Morale - Civilians primarily, but focus on the 'there's a better life, or at least one not in the path of immediate violence, waiting for you' thing. Also make it clear you will accept PDF surrenders and give pardons to all soldiers and at least some officers, etc.
-[] [Mechanical] Mechanicus Deviancy - Subvert Shield Generators in Hives.
-[] [Mechanical] Templar Rampages - Officers OR Nobles
-[] [Narrative] Mass-Poisonings - Nobles
-[] [Narrative] Targeted Assassinations- Governor
-[] [Mechanical] Attempt To Blow The Shield Generators
-[] [Narrative] Revolution In The Stars - When the Lamenters start arriving is the key trigger to start helping them out!
-[] [Mechanical] Attempt To Blow The Plasma Generators
-[] [Mechanical] PDF Hidden Moles - Morale
-[] [Narrative] PDF Turned Officers - Turn Mid to Late game... but within each movement. That is to say, if a sub-sector is starting to fall to our side, that's when to start advertising the fact that mercy and food (or at least more food than they'll likely have) is available.
-[] [Mechanical] SDF Hidden Moles - Communications
-[] [Narrative] Turned Officers - Rely on middle-ranked officers, and when? Try to push them more towards encouraging surrender when things are bad rather than fighting to the last or self-destructing out of spite, etc, etc.
-[] [Mechanical] Use Songs - Yes, but only in moments of great strategic doubt, under the advisement of the Federation trained Choirs. And ONLY if none of them are immediately available/able to do the job. In almost all circumstances using the Federation Choirs is a better bet if it can be done, but there may come a time where they have to Sing a Song. If that is the case, be on the lookout for Chaos.
-[] [Mechanical] Use Melodies - Yes
-[] [Mechanical] (Designate Numbers, Songs, And Behaviour For The Ground War)--23 total, 5 (Federation trained) local, 5 from the oudated Scout Sloops, and 13 from the Free Choirs. "Break Their Chains" is to be used for strategic moments of destroying enemy cohesion or creating a fire in the rear, the Hide Song to obscure movements... or break off enemy communication, and the Bubble of Power to break any enemy Psyker attempts... or Chaos outbreaks. They're to be their brothers' keepers for the Voxxian Choirs, with full charge over them/etc, and discretion to do as they will.
Updated, even if it does lose an absurd percentage of our Scouting, I feel that it's worth it to have over half the number of Very Well Trained Choirs as we have of Voxxian Choirs, because it vastly reduces the frequency with which they'll be asked to "Break Glass" and use the Songs.
Honestly, if we Arm The Enslaved and Stoke The Workers To Action, I think it's best to do so at full-tilt and right off the bat. HeroCookie themself said that if we take half-measures there, well, that's what the Imperium uses suicide collars for.
Lots of good people are going to die in this war. A lot more will die if we half-ass this.
Lots of good people are going to die in this war. A lot more will die if we half-ass this.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Also correction here, @HeroCooky , the Cirranus Scout Sloops aren't worth 0 DP, they're worth -4 DP.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Scouting Range: ~10 Systems from Claimed Systems. Scouting Efficiency: 50% Adjacent Systems, 30% Three+ Systems, 15% Five+ Systems.
So if we're losing 17% of our capacity... SOMEHOW, that'd be 40% Adjacent, like 25%-ish Three+Systems, and probably round down to 10% Five+Systems.
Which isn't terrible, even if, again, it makes NO sense.
Pempelune
Fanfiction Deep State
[Narrative] Arm the Enslaved - (Yes/No) - (If Yes, when?)
Attempt to rouse the enslaved populations of the Hives to join your revolution via Songs or doing it manually. Massive increase in chaos during the first few months at the cost of drastically increased civilian casualties.
[Mechanical] Use Songs - (Yes/No)
Allow Voxxian Choirs to use Songs. This dramatically increases the chance of daemonic possession and Chaos Corruption spreading in the liberation.
These two form a VERY potent combination. We have 40+ Voxxian Choirs, who could each be singing our Revolution Song and lead very significant of the Hives's population into revolt. The loyalists will not be able to fight for very long, when most of their population is actively fighting them or has deserted the manufactiums.
Let's make this war into a true Revolution.
Attempt to rouse the enslaved populations of the Hives to join your revolution via Songs or doing it manually. Massive increase in chaos during the first few months at the cost of drastically increased civilian casualties.
[Mechanical] Use Songs - (Yes/No)
Allow Voxxian Choirs to use Songs. This dramatically increases the chance of daemonic possession and Chaos Corruption spreading in the liberation.
These two form a VERY potent combination. We have 40+ Voxxian Choirs, who could each be singing our Revolution Song and lead very significant of the Hives's population into revolt. The loyalists will not be able to fight for very long, when most of their population is actively fighting them or has deserted the manufactiums.
Let's make this war into a true Revolution.
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HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
No? You are scouting across interstellar distances, where going from one system to another takes days. That is something that requires numbers. You choose to make scouts that are very easy on the maintenance your main scouting force but didn't build enough of them to make losing 5 ships a minor inconvenience. It is a matter of numbers here, going from 28 to 22 ships that need to cover every nearby Sub-Sector you have access to.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You know, the sheer amount of triggers we have makes me feel better about our efforts to infiltrate Voxx.
24 (23 with only Voxx stuff). That's the amount of aces in our sleeves we have. That's like several hands worth of aces. That's "the Casino staff is amazed at your sheer audacity" number of aces.
I am for playing all of them. Victory or death are the only outcomes, and I'd rather spend some lives to not risk the rest.
24 (23 with only Voxx stuff). That's the amount of aces in our sleeves we have. That's like several hands worth of aces. That's "the Casino staff is amazed at your sheer audacity" number of aces.
I am for playing all of them. Victory or death are the only outcomes, and I'd rather spend some lives to not risk the rest.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I mean, I was following it and it seemed as if the weight of the ships that were designed to go greater distances and be unseen (therefore getting more accurate data) was... exactly equal to the Scout Sloops in effect? That's what is also implied when the losing of 5 outdated Scout Sloops has an effect that makes it clear that it's a loss of... wait, where did you get 22?
There's only 5 -4 DP Scout Sloops?
But my point is, if you say, "You lost 17% of your Scout Sloops and therefore your Scouting goes down 17%" that is in fact STATING that there's no difference between the two.
While I think that it could work, I think that making sure that there isn't any chaos for Chaos to use, is far more important than more bodies to the meat grinder. Not to mention that PDF is probably used to fighting what is essentially a peasant rebellion. Not to mention that the vast majority of civilians aren't Starchild believers and as such they aren't used to well being very moral, a part of them may start robbing and slaeansh their way against innocent, which would make things difficult.
For me at least this should not be used unless we get enforcers trigger on trainers which I see as less useful than law enforcers as law enforcement will make it so more civilians will think that we aren't lying about being better than old regime, we need civilians to see our moral superiority and not see any deamons. Because people won't switch to our side if they see deamons flow our liberation.
Not as bad as killing general, but I personally am more partial to Admiral for a chance of faster victory in the stars (thus getting more professional soldiers on the ground)
I mean it could work but we would need to fix them fast given that duchy will inevitably send a counterattack soon-ish, and I find discord in SDF as more useful for Lamenters taking it over.
I mean I really doubt it is good idea, sure critical moments are vital but the stress and general chaos of those moments to me looks like worst time to use difficult techniques like songs, it is asking for trouble and Chaos to come, causing mutual kill at best, at worst we give defenders a proof that we are chaos cultist which will make any surrenders less likely. Maybe Dirge for the Innocent when they are in calm and safe space (and I thought that we had health song, but I can't seem to find it, but that one in field hospitals, but alas definitely not trying to make new songs on the spot with them)
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Okay? The main reason why your scouting is so good as it is, is because you have Choirs on those ships. You know, the psykers that can act as FTL Communications to your systems to tell them what is happening? Stripping them off of your scouts is the same as not getting any info until the scouts return from their trips, effectively neutering them from contributing with up-to-date information about enemy movements and interstellar happenings. It is the difference between getting updates every day and ~1-2 months.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
No, okay, you don't seem to. Okay. Let us compare them.
Pyxis-Class High-Grade Scout Sloop
-Length 1.200m
-Width - 250m
-Acceleration - 8 Gravities
-Armor - Single Hull
-Shields - One Array
-Weapons - 1x Light Missile Batteries
-Equipment - Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Emergency Maneuver Engines/Ship Shrines/Enhanced Supply Generation/Tiny On-Board Manufactory/ Reflective Hull Coating/Stealth Engine Dampeners/Elite Crews/Spacious Crew Quarter/ Tuned Shields
Circinus-Class Scout Sloop
-Length 1.200m
-Width - 250m
-Acceleration - 8 Gravities
-Armor - Single Hull
-Shields - Three Emitters
-Weapons - 2x Light Missile Batteries
-Equipment - Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Emergency Maneuver Engines/Missile Swarms
Do both of these ships provide the exact same amount of Scouting Efficency?
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Yes. Neither of them have any Psytech that enhances their scouting, nor is one faster than the other. The Circinus requires more after-scouting maintenance, but that is something your civilization is very good at providing thanks to the various Navy-focused traits you have.
Again. The CHOIRS are the important part here. Not the ship.
You have a Health Melody.
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Said combination is also just asking for Chaos incursion on the planet. Like I can't stress it enough a lot of civilians dying + a lot of half-trained psykers + general shitiness of hiveworlders (most of them were not converted to starchild worship) = Mêlée à Trois between us, Chaos and Old Regime (maybe more sides if each chaos god will fight for themselves)