What should your focus for the rest of the Quest be?


  • Total voters
    281
Voting is open
It is intended for Grand Cruisers and up (also, typo there lol. 12 DP, not 15), as I am running Battleships as "Fuck you, 30x Light Macro-Cannons as Defense Guns" type haxxers.

Oh, yeah, that's on the boundaries of being acceptable then, especially with "The intent is that you use them on Supercapital ships, not standard issue" Something that makes one of our Super Capitals dropping in being a "Holy shit treat that like a god damn Tombship" would be appealing enough.

What would the Energy Weapon version do to our Necron Guns in that context? Would it bring them somewhere approaching Original Spec?

(And also, what the hell 30x Light Macro-Cannons on a Battleship? Do they just not have actual heavy guns and are we the weirdoes who use actual Supercapital grade guns on our Supercapital ships? Mostly everyone else just takes advantage of the Supercapital cramming bonus to just saturate you with All The Guns?)
 
Last edited:
I still think that being more consistent in quality is better, we already have an experienced small weight navy, not upgrading that plus making the future heavy weights take less iterations to get up to that spec just seems to be a hands down better choice.
Edit: Our first battleships are going to be tiny versions of what they could be, at the start its going to come down to a choice between have a glorified very large cart to carry one or two specialized systems or having no special systems and only getting Gen 1 DP design choices having everything be lower than what it could have with the general flat upgrade.
 
Last edited:
I still think that being more consistent in quality is better, we already have an experienced small weight navy, not upgrading that plus making the future heavy weights take less iterations to get up to that spec just seems to be a hands down better choice.

Battleships matter, and a sufficiently mighty Battleship very much can delete the better part of a fleet.

And our doctrine is one that strongly rewards us going top-heavy due to our limitation on how many ships we can field, so if we're looking at "Specialization lets you get ships that can hypothetically solo entire battlegroups and absolutely babyshake even their weight peers against all but the toughest space factions in the game", that's actually worthwhile, because we're always going to be outnumbered because of the choices we've made so far.
 
Battleships matter, and a sufficiently mighty Battleship very much can delete the better part of a fleet.

And our doctrine is one that strongly rewards us going top-heavy due to our limitation on how many ships we can field, so if we're looking at "Specialization lets you get ships that can hypothetically solo entire battlegroups and absolutely babyshake even their weight peers against all but the toughest space factions in the game", that's actually worthwhile, because we're always going to be outnumbered because of the choices we've made so far.
Well, we still are going to have to up the number of ships in an SBG simple because otherwise we'll have next to no escorts and screens for the battleships. I'm thinking maybe 7 Andromeda's and 3 Aquarius' Per SBG.

Edit: Even that's on the small side for what we could do. Given that we can make 4 of the 30 (plus 3 Andromeda's) ship Fleets per action right now. After the upgrades that Void Industry battleship yards would give us that probably puts us back towards ~1 Action per SBG.
 
Last edited:
What would the Energy Weapon version do to our Necron Guns in that context? Would it bring them somewhere approaching Original Spec?

(And also, what the hell 30x Light Macro-Cannons on a Battleship? Do they just not have actual heavy guns and are we the weirdoes who use actual Supercapital grade guns on our Supercapital ships? Mostly everyone else just takes advantage of the Supercapital cramming bonus to just saturate you with All The Guns?)
Dunno. Wait to figure it out...if that option wins.

Battleships have Beeg Guns, but they also have a "Eat my entire ass" rule, where you can just slap dozens of 1 DP weapons on them.

Fun Fact: the Grove took Multi-Deck, and now their BB uses a triple revolving spinal-lance, and 12 Super-Heavy Plasma Macro-Cannons in the same space as 1 and 4 of them. With about ~40 1 DP guns. And some other weapons. Why? Because fuck you, eat their ass. That's why.
 
Dunno. Wait to figure it out...if that option wins.

Battleships have Beeg Guns, but they also have a "Eat my entire ass" rule, where you can just slap dozens of 1 DP weapons on them. Fun Fact: the Grove took Multi-Deck, and now their BB uses a triple revolving spinal-lance, and 12 Super-Heavy Plasma Macro-Cannons in the same space as 1 and 4 of them. With about ~40 1 DP guns. And some other weapons. Why? Because fuck you, eat their ass. That's why.

...

That's absurd

What's the price they paid for that kind of degeneracy in naval combat? Because nothing comes for free.

Is there even anyone else in the region aside from the Grove that has VI XV?
 
...

That's absurd

What's the price they paid for that kind of degeneracy in naval combat? Because nothing comes for free.

Is there even anyone else in the region aside from the Grove that has VI XV?
Their price is that they immediately spend any Actions they have on Naval Dev first, and other shit second.

Yeah, the Nurglites. Who do you think gave the Snussies the Nurgle Daemon BBs?
 
Their price is that they immediately spend any Actions they have on Naval Dev first, and other shit second.

Yeah, the Nurglites. Who do you think gave the Snussies the Nurgle Daemon BBs?

Ah, because of course Chaos shares tech, grumble mumble.

Well, okay.

...

Does this mean that our Union with the Grove might actually lead to us getting Multi-decks and one of the other choices? We're superior in every other Dev, so I don't think we'll get anything from that, but we're a peer in VI, right? Or is the secret just going to become Lost Technology because we're not allowed to have nice things?
 
(Gain: Ogryn intellect becomes equal to the Human baseline. Eliminates all cognitive ailments and minorly enhances baseline intelligence for all Federation Species with Biochemical Brains.)
(Gain: Biological and Mechanical Augmentations become omnipresent for all Federation Citizens, boosting the industriousness, happiness, and capabilities of everyday people, alongside increasing the resilience of your armies.)
so what stops someone giving an orgyn a biological-computer Brain augmentation from the 3rd option and making the 2nd option irrelevant?

edit:
so knowing that smarty pants the orgyn is a canon character, what Nth of his name is still alive to be on the team to achieve the second?
 
Last edited:
The same thing that stops you from plugging yourself into a potato-field turned computers and getting smarter.
somewhere in the imperium an ad mech is probably doing this using only a single potato spud for a supercomputer levels of processing speed and width and i'm now terrified that the idiot savant can potentially lead a crusade against us
 
Last edited:
...... Choose between.... ah. Isn't the whole Federation 'thing' being that the strengths of each group helps reinforce each other..? Also, from a gameplay perspective, why even have this be a choice if so? Making us choose between two of the same options again after already having to pick one?

Honestly... I can't believe I'm saying this but I think that we shouldn't fuse with Shipwright's Grove then. We should just focus on eating up the smaller polity's to our South.
 
Last edited:
Hmm.
None of them cost less than 15 DP.
AHHH yeah that's kind of a mood-killer. Good, but impossible to actually field.

also, typo there lol. 12 DP, not 15)
Hmm. Still an extreme tax. But it is the sort of thing that is possible on GCs & BBs and makes those ships into an absolute epitome of their role. I want to see what the carrier-focused version of that is.

Choose between them.
Hmm. Well definitely no point in taking the multi-deck guns in that case if we'll get the option to keep what we have. I'm still going to vote for the specialization, it's what we need to really uplevel our BBs, and besides it'll make the ship design game fun. If we find out that we can't fit them we can swap for the multi-deck guns when we unify with the shipwrights.

Oh @HeroCooky What happened with the ships we sent to the Shipwright's to help them deal with their piracy problems? We sent some pretty substantial forces their way including two LRADs to crack any pirate fortifications without much loss.
 
...... Choose between.... ah. Isn't the whole Federation 'thing' being that the strengths of each group helps reinforce the each other..? Also, from a gameplay perspective, why even have this be a choice if so? Making us choose between two of the same options again after already having to pick one?

Honestly... I can't believe I'm saying this but I think that we shouldn't fuse with Shipwright's Grove then. We should just focus on eating up the smaller polity's to our South.

We don't really have a choice, they're fucking dogshit at ground combat, they don't even have the Rank V MI infrastructure except maybe in a small handful of worlds (So they have no Specializations and might not even have tanks or R&D), yet their population is still unrealistically huge despite dumpstatting everything but VI because the Irritia are hard carrying their Food production. If we don't integrate them, they're going to just provide billions--if not trillions--of sacrifices to the Slaanesh Swarm, which can use Chaos Tomfoolery to just either bypass or brute force past their genuinely impressive navy.

Starting to see how the polities that teamed up with aliens collapsed, if this is the kind of mindset it leads to. They stagnated hard in everything but VI, because the Irritia were so miraculously good that their natural talents could let them hyperspecialize without paying a price for it. But it makes them brittle and poorly suited to anything that can bypass their Shtick, and their population is so massive and their territory so quick that chances are good they might just lose half their territory in a single turn once the Slaanesh deathball hits them, unless we merge with them.
 
Last edited:
We don't really have a choice, they're fucking dogshit at ground combat, they don't even have the Rank V MI infrastructure except maybe in a small handful of worlds, yet their population is still unrealistically huge despite dumpstatting everything but VI because the Irritia are hard carrying their Food production. If we don't integrate them, they're going to just provide billions--if not trillions--of sacrifices to the Slaanesh Swarm, which can use Chaos Tomfoolery to just either bypass or brute force past their genuinely impressive navy.
There's also the result of more than tripling our territory: our actions will suddenly have A LOT more weight to them. Like we'll probably get to make 10 fleets per action and colonize a dozen worlds per action or some crazy stuff.
 
We don't really have a choice, they're fucking dogshit at ground combat, they don't even have the Rank V MI infrastructure except maybe in a small handful of worlds (So they have no Specializations and might not even have tanks or R&D), yet their population is still unrealistically huge despite dumpstatting everything but VI because the Irritia are hard carrying their Food production. If we don't integrate them, they're going to just provide billions--if not trillions--of sacrifices to the Slaanesh Swarm, which can use Chaos Tomfoolery to just either bypass or brute force past their genuinely impressive navy.
We are allied, we could just show them our maps (they might not know about the Cult) and help them with out my teaching them how to make our currente military gear. Could perhaps ask them to pay for it with unique ship tech that they've developed, a 'we give you Mil Tech, you give us Ship Tech' sort of deal.

Edit: @BigBadBob7070, we are already on our way to literally doubling in size by eating the Black Ash. Then we have the Lords of Eternity who might still want an alliance (might need a few diplo actions). For the later we just need the Watchtower Confederacy to agree to let us through their territory that's between us. Probably need a write in, perhaps 'offer to help protect them from the Chaos Cults near them with our fleets -> we request freedom of movement in their territory for us and our allies to do so'.
 
Last edited:
There's also the result of more than tripling our territory: our actions will suddenly have A LOT more weight to them. Like we'll probably get to make 10 fleets per action and colonize a dozen worlds per action or some crazy stuff.

Oh absolutely, we might not get anything from Inf or techs because they don't really have any that are better than ours (And I don't even think they have research unlocked, they've spent the entire game without being able to do Research, good god), but any Inf hits we take uplifting them will naturally regenerate over time thanks to the All-X benefits letting us regenerate up to the highest milestone we've reached automatically without actions (And only need 1 point to recover to our previous highest rank per point even if it'd cost more), but they'll get pulled up to our standard and brought into our Anti-Chaos defense bubble.
 
Last edited:
I'm actually curious — would we be able to still build those ships, a la Faith Ships in that even if the required knowledge to design them is gone, we still would have the designs?

I think they'd actually still be inferior to us, because They haven't been able to do Original Research intentionally.

So even with a super degenerate ship build, we probably still outstrip them because our fundamental technologies are better. Foundations are God after all, and our ships are some of the finest in the galaxy outside of the Ancients.

Remember, their Infs are 3-8 across their territory, which suggests that A) It's not universal, and B) Even their best places in a given field are still just at the first milestone
 
Last edited:
@HeroCooky, we can still absorb smaller polity's like the Black Ash without having to choose traits given that we pretty much out class what they have in quality right?

Edit: @Alectai, the thing that lets us have equal infrastructure everywhere is explicitly a 5/5 Iconoclast perk. They still deal with each world being its own devolution.
 
Last edited:
I think they'd actually still be inferior to us, because They haven't been able to do Original Research intentionally.

So even with a super degenerate ship build, we probably still outstrip them because our fundamental technologies are better. Foundations are God after all, and our ships are some of the finest in the galaxy outside of the Ancients.

Remember, their Infs are 3-8 across their territory, which suggests that A) It's not universal, and B) Even their best places in a given field are still just at the first milestone
That sounds about right. We grouse about our stuff a lot and how cracked out the alternative routes can be, but I just remember how the Imperium has these such amazing ships and then has these massive internal debuffs on ship quality

Having to account for "unreliable construction" on our equipment makes me weep — we might not spike as high but having consistency in every single manner is very quiet and very powerful.

Pretty excited to make our AP effectiveness jump when we finally eat Black Cat and stuff, microstate that we are haha

Really puts into context what the DAOT or the Eldar or the Necrons could do at their height. Galaxy-wide polities at All-XV or All-XX+
 
That sounds about right. We grouse about our stuff a lot and how cracked out the alternative routes can be, but I just remember how the Imperium has these such amazing ships and then has these massive internal debuffs on ship quality

Having to account for "unreliable construction" on our equipment makes me weep — we might not spike as high but having consistency in every single manner is very quiet and very powerful.

Pretty excited to make our AP effectiveness jump when we finally eat Black Cat and stuff, microstate that we are haha

Really puts into context what the DAOT or the Eldar or the Necrons could do at their height. Galaxy-wide polities at All-XV or All-XX+

TBH, I don't think the Space Elfs actually ever had high Infrastructure simply because they didn't need it, what they had instead was what was effectively the Chaos. "Just wish whatever you need into existence" perk, but they didn't need to spend anything to get it because they had their bullshit magic doing the work for htem. They effectively get artifical Infrastructure in their Craftworlds that are impressive, but it's not actually based on knowledge so much as "Craftworlds are self-sufficient by design, and if the Space Elfs were to ever leave it, they'd have to use their actual Infrastructure scores, which are a complete joke, therefore they're trapped and tied to their megaprojects and can't actually restart without getting fucking eaten.".

Which is why they haven't meaningfully advanced since the Fall, they lost their ability to just fabricate actions, and have too much shit to do to afford the cost of increasing their native Infrastructure when it won't actually do anything for them because their Craftworld gives them the benefits of All-XV or All-XX or so automatically, just not hte subtler benefits, which prevents them from expanding.

Necrons at their height definitely had HI XX and VI XX for sure, though whether they had the others are unclear. Their Medical at least probably was bottom of the barrel simply because they could never actually resolve their whole "Holy fucking shit our health is in the gutter" problem until they got handouts from the C'tan (And Biotransference wasn't really a solution so much as a New and More Interesting Problem), and even now they've never been able to make significant headway in that regard. They also don't even have a Civilian Economy, period, or need for Food in their current state, so they likely don't even get those stats. Whether that lets them still have the All-X benefits or not is unclear.
 
Right, given the recent news about how fusing with Shipwrights Grove means we lose traits instead of doing a full fusion. I've got a new gameplan:

1. Still going for the massive research investment - its still a great idea we'd want to do it anyway as it's the only way we'll get all of the Necron stuff before they come to collect.
2. Instead of fusing with S.G we instead focus hard on beating the Black Ash and Diplo-ing the Watchtowers to let us have open borders.
3. Use the open borders to get full alliance with the Lords of Eternity.
4. Build up with the newly doubled size of the Federation (thanks to eating Black Ash) potentially eating Watchtowers when the Khorn Cult attacks through gratitude (we save them from the Cult).
5. Keep diplo-ing Lords of Eternity to eventually eat them.
6. Eat the abstracted single sub-sector powers to our South, East and South-West fighting the cults as we go.
7. We will probably come into conflict with the Imperial breakaway state in the South-West corner then.
8. Try and contain the Dutchy to their current corner to keep them from eating half the map.

Problems we'll have deal with:
1. Not fusing with S.G means that they have shit (in comparison) armies and will get literally stomped by the Chaos Titan. This can be solved by telling the S.G about the Cult (if they don't already know) and proposing a trade 'our help building up their military in exchange for them helping us with our newly made battleship docks + other ships' this plus building our fleets out to help them when the Chaos Cult attacks. This lets us keep our traits and keeps an ally alive. It does mean accepting that the border we share is likely to be final though.

2. We will need to invest actions into upgrading the diplomacy auto ticker and likely put actions into beating the Black Ash quicker. Painful action crunch but it'll be worth it to double our size and keep our traits.

3. Diplo-ing the Watchtowers' will likely put us in conflict with the Khorn cult sooner than if we waited. This is both a good thing in that it prevents them from ramping up more (perhaps preventing a surprise Deamonworld) and bad, in that it means less time to prepare. Don't start attacking them until we get at least 10 Battleships with attendant fleets.

Edit: One big benefit of this is that we won't take as massive a hit to our Dev levels by trying to incorporate the entirety of the S.G.

Edit 2: And now I'm looking at the time... well I didn't want much any sleep tonight anyway.... I'll read the responses to this in a few hours.
 
Last edited:
Voting is open
Back
Top