OK, I'm not saying the people voting for titans are wrong...
...but I'd tone down the "only titans can kill titans" claims. Shadowsword tanks exist for a reason.
TBF while we don't need Titans to kill Titans all the way I feel like our specialties are better suited to Titans and their narrative that the other options lack. Cause even discounting psy-titans potentially being a thing we can get I can easily imagine having Choirs using Melodies buffing Titans way easier than super tanks or war walkers let alone the potential for Songs
I'll play devil's advocate here - the Titans are useful, but the innovative potential of new designs even for smaller mech platforms is also nothing to sneeze at. But I'll be happy with either outcome.
Yeah, that's my view. Titans are definitely useful, but their tactical usage is limited to "just" being walking engines of destruction whereas war walkers offer significantly more versatility for every scenario that it's a flat out upgrade for our forces.
The choice here is whether we want to be more like the Imperium, or more like the Tau, and the Tau have shown in canon that they are able to take on Titans without having any of their own.
OK, I'm not saying the people voting for titans are wrong...
...but I'd tone down the "only titans can kill titans" claims. Shadowsword tanks exist for a reason.
You're not wrong in that Titans aren't completely invincible to non-Titans.
That being said, look at the writeup for the Shadowsword more closely. "Yes, it can core a Battle Titan in one shot... If its Void Shields are down, and if it hits, and the price for all that power is being incredibly expensive even by Superheavy Tank standards, glacially slow, having little-to-no traverse, and having to actually turn off the engine before you fire or else it might just fucking explode, requiring a lengthy re-activation procedure afterwards, and outside of its Big Damn Gun, its sole armament is a pair of sponson-mounted heavy bolters.
You absolutely can kill a Titan without one, but it requires ideal circumstances or overwhelming weight of firepower or elites to achieve.
You're not wrong in that Titans aren't completely invincible to non-Titans.
That being said, look at the writeup for the Shadowsword more closely. "Yes, it can core a Battle Titan in one shot... If its Void Shields are down, and if it hits, and the price for all that power is being incredibly expensive even by Superheavy Tank standards, glacially slow, having little-to-no traverse, and having to actually turn off the engine before you fire or else it might just fucking explode, requiring a lengthy re-activation procedure afterwards, and outside of its Big Damn Gun, its sole armament is a pair of sponson-mounted heavy bolters.
You absolutely can kill a Titan without one, but it requires ideal circumstances or overwhelming weight of firepower or elites to achieve.
Still, the Tau are able to fight against Titans despite not having any of their own.
If we go with War-Walkers, we'll fight Titans by going all Mobile Suit Gundam on their asses, and honestly that seems more fitting for us, having a bunch of elite Ace pilots working together to take on walking behemoths.
Still, the Tau are able to fight against Titans despite not having any of their own.
If we go with War-Walkers, we'll fight Titans by going all Mobile Suit Gundam on their asses, and honestly that seems more fitting for us, having a bunch of elite Ace pilots working together to take on walking behemoths.
Not really, the Tau had to invent a near Titan scale Battlesuit specifically to counter Titans, and they also had superheavy flyers in the form of the Manta (I think?) that could bombard with impunity, which they could produce in concerningly large numbers.
Again, Titans aren't invincible, god no. But they are the highest concentration of force you can achieve in the setting for terrestrial battles, and that matters
The Tau are also blessed with insane amounts of Plot Armor, I would point out, and basically everyone jobs against them. Up to and including an entire fucking Execution Force failing and getting killed to the last Assassin going after a single Ethereal because Plot Armor keeps kicking in to have them get Suddenly Noticed for no real reason before they can strike, with the sole exception of the Culexis who somehow doesn't trip their "THE ETHEREAL IS IN DANGER" senses and let them do shit like identify an immobile Vindicare in a sniping position from out of the blue at significant distance and call artillery down on them, or cotton on to a Callidus because "That doesn't seem right..." When they've historically been able to infiltrate even Ork forces, with an actual confirmed psychic gestalt.
Also, I'm not super keen on the idea of just compensating for not wanting to pay the surcharge for Titans by throwing more bodies at the problem too.
I dunno if it would be "throwing more bodies at the problem" instead of just making specialized frames to fight against them. "Throwing more bodies at the problem" sounds more like you think we'd be throwing hundreds of mechs to their death just to make a dent in a single Warhound.
I dunno if it would be "throwing more bodies at the problem" instead of just making specialized frames to fight against them. "Throwing more bodies at the problem" sounds more like you think we'd be throwing hundreds of mechs to their death just to make a dent in a single Warhound.
DOnt we do that if we dont pick titan ? Specifically as the orginal heights will be used and we dont have the same tech the tau did to get the smaller craft to work like they do theirs.
"Ma'am, the Mechanicus is rioting."
"Really, why? Didn't we agree to start the construction of a God-Engine soon?"
"Yes, but this is about the coloring-scheme."
"I thought everyone agreed to it already?"
"Yes, but they are rioting over whether to use two thin coats or three."
You Have 3 [Three] Actions. Currently Active ISC: [New Dawn R&D]. Current Symphony: [A Cry For The Future]. Current Warp Tremors: [High]. (6-Hour Moratorium)
[Green Horizons Colonization LTD] - Resettlement Initiatives - Increases colonized worlds by 50% if the Action {Colonize Planet/s} is used. [New Dawn R&D] - Anomaly Identified - Uncover Points of Interest (PoI) within and without your territory every Turn this ISC is sponsored. PoI include (but are not limited to) new colonizable systems, Economic Boons, Military Relevant Resources or Locations, and more. [Federation Post] - Messenger Fleet - Reduce the cost of improving Civilian Infrastructure by 50% (rounded down).
The Devouring Mechadendrite - 20x Choirs. A Glint of Genius - 0x Choirs. Heartbeat of Industry - 0x Choirs Unto Works Generational - 0x Choirs See No Evil, Speak No Evil, Hear No Evil, Do No Evil - 0x Choirs Hippity Hoppity - 0x Choirs Hiss of the Steam Valve - 135x Choirs
Warp Tremor Levels: [Warp Storm] - [High] - [Medium] - [Restive] - [Calm] - [Still] None - Allow The Warp To Calm A Cry For The Future - Gain 0.25 Actions for every Total Action spent. Actions gained this way are rounded up. +1 Warp Tremors per Turn. Grand Design - All Research Actions have their effects enhanced to the best possible degree they are capable of providing. +0.25 Warp Tremors per Turn. This increased by 0.25 every Turn.
[] [Free] Consecrate In Sacred Sand (Write-In World)
Works of generations started today.
(Gain: A Consecrated World.)
[] [General] Develop The Federations'...
-[] Food Production XI (0/1)
-[] Civilian Infrastructure XVI (0/1)
-[] Heavy Industry XI (0/1)
-[] Void Industry XII (0/1)
-[] Medical Services VI (1/2)
-[] Military Industry XI (1/2)
(Gain: A boost in production focusing on the chosen option.)
[] [General] Colonize (Planet/s)
It is time to bring four more worlds into the fold. Thanks to the Kil'drabi becoming our Kin, we can now categorize Frozen, Ash, and Volcanic Worlds as Habitable instead.
(Gain: Four colonized Worlds.
Habitable Worlds: Ivuh - Ubraka (Planetary Mangroves), Llolanov - Kriegar (Temperate Forests and Mild Arctic), Yeogawa - Gheistheim (Flowering Abdundance)
Hostile Worlds (-1 Void Industry): Olutia - Grace of the Labors (Dry Tundra), Magisch - Hexe (Arctic and Island)
Deathworlds (-1 to All): Qulach's Forge - Qulach's Forge (Fallout, Glass, Industrial Ruins, and Chemicals))
[] [General] Terraform (Planet) - (Auto-Terraformation - 250.M43)
Thanks to the aid of the Irrita (against payment), we will be able to donate life to planets that do not yet have any of their own.
(Gain: Three Terraformed and Colonized Planets.)
-[] Rejuvenat Experimentation IIb (0/3)
(Gain: Improve Rejuvenat Access from 10% to 10.4%.) -[] Warcasket Prototypes (0/2)
(Gain: Warcaskets, the primitive version of a Dreadnought.) -[] Primitive Gravity-Weaponization Theory
(Gain: Primitive Grav-Weapons.) -[] Green Ship Other Gun? (0/2)
(Gain: A GS-gun derivative. Looks to be long-ranged?) -[] Scout Automata (0/1)
(Gain: Scout Automata are added to your military.) -[] Line Automata (0/1)
(Gain: Line Automata are added to your military.) -[] Heavy Automata (0/1)
(Gain: Heavy Automata are added to your military.) -[] Super-Heavy Automata (0/1)
(Gain: Super-Heavy Automata are added to your military.) -[] Void Automata (0/1)
(Gain: Void Automata are added to your navy.) -[] Civilian Automata (0/1)
(Gain: Civilian Automata begin production.) -[] Autonomous Automata !!!WARNING!!! (0/1)
(WARNING: Automata grow more capable of Independent Action.) -[] Novel Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development II (0.5)
(Gain: Infantry Weapons and Armor Upgrades.) -[] Experimental Infantry-Grade Weapons and Armor Development (0.5)
(Gain: New Infantry Weapons and Armors.) -[] Logistical Infantry-Grade Weapons Development II (0/1)
(Gain: Cheaper Infantry Weapons.) -[] Logicstical Infantry-Grade Armor Development II (0/1)
(Gain: Cheaper Infantry Armor.) -[] Ship Equipment Standardization - [1 DP Equipment] (1/3)
(Gain: Standardize 1 [One] 1 DP Ship Equipment across all new Designs.) -[] Shipyard Automatization III (1/2)
(Gain: 1 Frigate every Turn.)
-[] Long-Range Atevrian Sightlense (0/2)
The Atevrian Sightlense is a specially prepared Lance weapon whose lenses have been carved with Sigils and Holy Geometry. At the moment of fire, the weapon's waste energy curves and channels into the Warp from its apparatus, drastically enhancing its fire rate and range.
(Gain: Long-Range Atevrian Sightlense - 5 DP Weapon. Requires a Choir to operate.) -[] Silent Shimmershroud (0/2)
The Shimmershroud is a massive dispersion engine capable of twisting the position of the vessel it is installed upon within the Materium, reducing the damage the same takes by virtue of simply not existing where hostile munitions pass through, while also masking its emissions to make it even harder to hit.
(Gain: Silent Shimmershroud - 11 DP Equipment. Requires a Choir to operate.) -[] Ears of Hare Bnuy (1/2)
The Ears of Bnuy are an homage to the First Hymnal, an extension to a ship mounted atop its bridge section, channeling emissions into its targeting systems to increase the hit rate against elusive targets. For some reason they are not merely a machine installed atop the bridge, but an ethereal simulacrum of the ears of Celestial Bnuy.
(Gain: Ears of Hare Bnuy - 8 DP Equipment.) -[] Twisted Knotted Vinelloy (0/2)
This Psytech is a living organism spread over a ship's hull, specifically grown and tuned by an onboard Choir to rapidly self-repair any damage inflicted by the enemy, while providing minor anti-boarder defenses.
(Gain: Twisted Knotted Vinelloy - 15 DP Equipment. Requires a Choir to operate.) -[] Newly Improved Psyker Staves (2/5)
The ability to create psychic focii is no longer a mere beginner's art within the Glimmering Federation, and with knowledge and familiarity comes the ability to strive further than yesterday. With The Sun Melody having become a measuring stick upon which one can see progress, it is estimated that further refinement will be capable of reducing the damages incurred into "mere" full-body third-degree burns.
(Gain: Improves Choir efficiency and might when using Songs and Melodies.) -[] Newly Improved Psychic Hoods (0/5)
Thanks to the work done in figuring out how to psychically tune and shape cloth and metals to weave together into one whole, a "Psychic Hood" for the layperson, the Celestial Choir is eager to not only begin large-scale dissemination of knowledge and practice but also delve deeper into their understanding of how they function and can be improved.
(Gain: Improved Psychic Hoods are equipment that shields your Psykers from backlash to varying degrees.)
Hereteks Refuge - Reduce Research Cost by 20%, Rounded Up. +0.20 Research per Action Spent. Academic Publishing Institutes - +0.15 Research per Action Spent. Noosphere Unity - +0.05 Research per Action Spent. [Song] - A Glint of Genius - +0.40 Research per Action Spent. The Horizon Program - (Lords of Eternity and Shipwright's Grove) - +0.20 Research per Action Spent. The Psycademia 'Wings of our Crucible' - Allows Psytech to be researched under [General].
(0.75 Research Banked)
[] [General] Ministry of Subversion, Infiltration, and Interstellar Communication
A new age of peace dawns on the Glimmering Federation, and with it rises the required needs of its various branches and plans to come to fruition, from subverting hostile polities to maintaining friendly relations with good neighbors. Thanks to an expansion in resources, the Ministry of SIIC can now focus on multiple things simultaneously.
[] [AUTOMATIC] System Subversion (Choose Two)
With the allocated funds, a slow subversion of a singular system can be undertaken. However, these efforts can be focused and accelerated with dedicated attention.
(Gain: Allows you to slowly convert two [2] random systems simultaneously to the Glimmering Federation without Action cost.)
The Talon - Qo
Suspected Subversion Time: ~170 Years
Modifiers: Late-Switch To Buyout Subversion +~100 Years
Oq Jubilia - Oq
Suspected Subversion Time: ~170 Years
Modifiers: Late-Switch To Buyout Subversion +~100 Years
[] Duel Of The Fates (0/7)
Let The Duels Commence!
(Gain: The Black Ash Clan is assimilated. Increases by +0.5 per Turn.
Warning: [Error 404 - Text Not Found] possible.)
[] Formal Exchange Of Diplomatic Contacts With The Clans Who Live Here
Hello? This is the Glimmering Federation. Please Respond.
(Gain: Chosen polity opens communications with you on a semi-regular basis.)
[] ISC Access - (Lords of Eternity/Watchtower Confederacy/Shipwright's Grove)
The Federation's ISCs are eager to spread their markets and customer bases beyond the Glimmering Federation, willing to brave the (relatively safe and profitable) unknown.
(Gain: Disables one random ISC per Turn and significantly improves relations with the Lords of Eternity/Watchtower Confederacy/Shipwright's Grove.)
[] [AUTOMATIC] Improve Relations (Choose Two)
Though tedious work, improving relations over time with steady hands instead of bold declarations and treaties will enable more of the latter to be wrought without any complications.
(Targets: Mashan Temple Authority, Van Zandt Free Duchy, Watchtower Confederacy, Shipwright's Grove, Black Ash Clan, Black Cat Company, Lords of Eternity.
Gain: Slowly improved relations.)
Van Zandt Free Duchy
Current Relations: Awkward Trading
Trend: Steady
Modifiers: Opened Trade-Route
Watchtower Confederacy
Current Relations: Fuq ya' wan't?
Trend: Increase
Modifiers: The fuckers over there.
[] [Military] Create Grand Army (Write-in Name) for (Sub-Sector) or Knight Order (Write-in Name)
Grand Armies are composed of 2 SAGs per Sub-Sector System, which are composed of 4 Units each. Though each SAG will have its own Battle Standard and Motto, only those existing will be recorded in detail. A Grand Army requires you to specify each SAG as either Light, Medium, or Heavy, with the further moniker of Infantry/Mechanized/Tanks/Augmetic Legions Formations attached. All other specializations will be taken care of within the Grand Army itself. A Knight Order contains 20 War-Packs, one War-Pack consisting of One Questoris per Four Armigers, of variable Patterns.
(Gain: One Grand Army or Knight Order.)
[] [Military] Sector Battle Group Construction And Repair
-[] 2x Nomadic Fleets [Automatic] (0.4/1)
-[] Hydralisk and Necrolisk (0/1)
-[] Gryphon and Gorgon (0/1)
-[] Wyvern and Cyclops (0/1)
-[] 2x Long Range Anti-Duchy Specialist Fleets (0/1)
A Sector Battle Group consists of 4 Heavy Cruisers, 8 Carriers, 6 Light Cruisers, 8 (Heavy) Frigates, 4 Destroyers/Corvettes, and 3 Guide Ships. A Nomadic Fleet consists of 1 Battlecolony, 2 Heavy Cruisers, 4 Light Cruisers, 14 Frigates, and 2 Guide Ships. A LRAD consists of 4 Pegasus-Class Command Cruisers, 13 Hydrus-Class Rad Cruisers, 6 Scutum-Class Shield Frigates, 5 Sagitarrius Lance Frigates, 2 Lupus Destroyers, and 3 Guide Ships.
(Information: All Action Costs must be paid to receive the ships.
Gain: Filled out SBG/Nomadic Fleets.)
[] [Military] Design New Voidship Classes - [Available: Destroyer (1 DP), Frigate (2 DP), Light Cruiser/Freighter (4 DP), Heavy Cruiser/Freighter (8 DP), Temple Ship (25 DP)] - [25 DP]
From what we can tell, thanks to our history, what information we, the Kil'drabi, Yeeni, and the archives of our planets tell us, the difference between a prosperous interstellar polity and one naught but ash is the strength of their navy. At the moment, we have the beginning of a proud Void Fleet, yet purely defending against our enemies is a great way to get ground down into dust over time; we need to be able to bring the fight to them.
(Information: Ship Classes requiring more DP than you possess take more than one Action to design.
Gain: Newly designed and built Ship Class/es.)
[] [Military] Construct A God-Engine (Variable Action Cost)
00101011 00101011 00101011 01001001 01101110 01101001 01110100 01101001 01100001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01010000 01110010 01101111 01110100 01101111 01100011 01101111 01101100 01101100 00111010 00100000 01000010 01101001 01100111 00100000 01001110 01110101 01110100 00101011 00101011 00101011
(Gain: Titan decided upon in the Sub-Turns and specialized ship capable of moving it.)
[] [Military] The Ancient's [Bone-Mender Temple/Jubilant Den/Nightmare Child-Factory] - (Write-In Military Forces)
Hippity Hoppity has revealed to us a site where technology, rites, knowledge, or culture of the Ancients yet remain...if not how intact. It is far away from our borders, and thus the fleet sent there to uncover the truth must be guarded.
(Gain: One plundered Ancient Site.)
[] [Military] Begin Military Operations (Assign SAG/s) (Choose Location/s) (Designate Objective/s)
-[] 63x Free Celestial Choirs
-[] Sector Battle Group Sphinx (30/30 Ship Capacity)
(3x Andromeda-Secundus Pathfinder Ship, 4x Proof of Our New Path Battlecolony, 8x Libra-Quartus Light Carrier, 6x Scorpio-Secondus Light Cruiser, 6x Words of the Writ-Class Frigate, 2x Crux-Tertium Class Heavy Frigate, 4x Lupus-Secundus Torpedo Destroyer) -[] Sector Battle Group Centaur (30/30 Ship Capacity)
(3x Andromeda-Secundus Pathfinder Ship, 4x Leo-Secundus Vanguard Cruiser, 8x Libra-Quartus Light Carrier, 1x Endeavour Light Cruiser, 5x Scorpio-Secondus Light Cruiser, 8x Crux-Tertium Class Heavy Frigate, 4x Lupus-Secundus Torpedo Destroyer) -[] Sector Battle Group Werewolf (30/30 Ship Capacity)
(3x Andromeda-Secundus Pathfinder Ship, 4x Leo-Class Vanguard Cruiser, 8x Libra-Quartus Light Carrier, 6x Scorpio-Secondus Light Cruiser, 2x Falchion-class Frigate, 6x Sagitarrius-Tertium Lance Frigate, 1x Viper-Class Missile Destroyer, 1x Cobra Destroyer, 2x Lupus-Secundus Torpedo Destroyer) -[] Sector Battle Group Minotaur (30/30 Ship Capacity)
(3x Andromeda-Secundus Pathfinder Ship, 4x Leo-Secundus Vanguard Cruiser, 8x Libra-Quartus Light Carrier, 6x Scorpio-Secondus Light Cruiser, 8x Crux-Tertium Class Heavy Frigate, 4x Lupus-Secundus Torpedo Destroyer) -[] Sector Battle Group Leviathan (30/30 Ship Capacity)
(3x Andromeda-Secundus Pathfinder Ship, 4x Leo-Secundus Vanguard Cruiser, 8x Libra-Quartus Light Carrier, 6x Scorpio-Secondus Light Cruiser, 8x Crux-Tertium Class Heavy Frigate, 4x Aries-Tertium Class Corvette) -[] Sector Battle Group Basilisk (30/30 Ship Capacity)
(3x Andromeda-Secundus Pathfinder Ship, 4x Leo-Secundus Vanguard Cruiser, 8x Libra-Quartus Light Carrier, 6x Scorpio-Secondus Light Cruiser, 4x Words of the Writ-Class Frigate, 4x Crux-Tertium Class Heavy Frigate, 4x Aries-Tertium Class Corvette)
There is war to be had and battle to be made. Send troops to resolve issues, squash opposition to the Star Child and Humanity and all Their Protectorates, and send ships to scout neighboring systems to understand what is happening there.
(Gain: Military dispatched to put down opposition violently. Scouts are sent to look at other systems.
Scouting Range: ~20 Systems from Claimed Systems. Scouting Efficiency: N/A (70% Three+ Systems, 45% Eight+ Systems, 25% Fifteen+ Systems.)
Note: For use outside your territory or in support of forces specified within another Action.)
[] [Psykana] Conduct Six Melodies (0.4/1 - Auto Complete) - [Choose Melody]
The Celestial Choir has been given the means; with time, they shall conduct their songs. They will listen to the Warp and filter out the false whispers from the slumbering guidance of the Star Child. In halting prayer and stumbling humming, the truth will be stripped until nothing but it remains in the hands of those who shall make it anew into power to be wielded by the Choirs to come. As there are 10 Celestial Choirs free to pursue research, the High Council can ask them to pursue a target instead of what comes close. This will, naturally, be lost once they dip below 10 Choirs.
(Total: 19
Uncovered: Revenant and Prophecy II.
Secret: Slumber.
Star Child: Compassion II, Mercy III, Health II, Innovation II, Justice II, Wisdom II, Death II, Ruthlessness III, Brutality II, and Love.
Kil'drabi: Paths II, The Void III, Community II, and Family II.
Irrita: Growth II, Plants, Harmony, and Hunger.
Gain: Six Melodies newly Conducted.)
[] [Psykana] Sing two Songs (Choose at least Three below.) - (0.6/1 - Auto Complete) - [N/A]
Mere Melodies are not the end of the journey, nor should they be the start. They are the middle, from which all things shall grow and wither.
(Uncovered: Technology III and Prophecy I.
Secret: Perception III, Silence III, and Grounding III.
Star Child: Protection III, Fire III, The Sun V, Humanity III, Creativity III, Song III, The Home III, Logic III, Unity III, Progress III, Compassion I, Hope III, Health I, Death I, Justice I, Wisdom I, Innovation I, Machinery III, Ruthlessness II, Brutality I, Mercy II, and The Star.
Kil'drabi: Void II, Struggle III, Paths I, Community I, and Family I.
Irrita: Growth I.
Gain: Two Songs.)
[] [Psykana] Sing a Symphony (Choose Five Songs)
Words beyond meaning, songs beyond uttering, a hum of power that is the Warp reveling in its own power unleashed. A Symphony crafted from labor centuries long, and one that shall burn itself into history eternal, both mortal and Immaterial.
(Gain: A Symphony)
[] [Psykana] Warp Observatory (0/3)
Though our Symphonies are powerful, they extract a cost by turning the Warp tumultuous. Enough so that the enigmatic Eldar threatened war if we did not cease casting our Cry For The Future into the same for the benefit of our people. With skill and patience, the Celestial Choir has figured out how to observe the tremors in the Warp that result from singing a Symphony, hoping to find a way to indicate when it would be safe again to let our Cry loose. Yet, with the recent, and worryingly increasing, tremors reverberating through the Warp, more than casual observation is required. A station shall be built in Holy Irridanus where thirty Choirs shall work around the clock to observe and study the ripples in the Warp, both to better sing Symphonies and to divine any problems that Chaos may throw at us.
(Cost: 30 Choirs.
Gain: Warp Tremor Indicator Gauge.)
[] [Faith] An Unborn Guide Sought Out (Write-In)
...
(Gain: Guidance on how to deal with or gain something.)
[] [Knightly Orders] New Knight Training! (0.5/?)
More training! Yay!
(Gain: Knight Orders train even more!)
[] [Chapter] A Barge For Battle (0.5/4)
It must battle and barge.
(Gain: The Lamenters gain a Battle Barge (Space Marine Battleship Equivalent).)
[] [Other] Take Care Of [Future Or Current Problems]
(Write-In the problem being addressed.)
I dont think i am going to dignify that binary with a translation into English Gothic.
i would like to request any titan we make be focused on titan killing, that means volcano cannons. Unlike in a diffrerent quest i am in, we can be sure it will be supported properly, so lets focus in on warlords or warhounds. the dedicated titan killers.
or you know, we could go for broke, and make a imperator titan.
