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- They/Them
What's the counter to Flak Frigates? Or what do some of our planners think would fuck a Flak Frigate?
Sterbelicht - One Sacrifice At A Time Against The Galaxy (40K)
What's the counter to Flak Frigates? Or what do some of our planners think would fuck a Flak Frigate?
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
A Flak Frigate just fucking dies against a Light Cruiser rigged up for anti-shield lance work.
Gimmie a sec and I'll shake loose a Flak Killer.
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- They/Them
Okay, so, let's see:
2 Heavy Cruisers (16 DP)--Rad and Super-Strikecraft, because fuck we haven't even gotten to use the special squadron.
2 Light Cruisers (8 DP)--Flak Killer and Rad Lance
The Andromeda 2.0?? (another 4 DP)
We can probably also improve a lot of our smaller ships, that's pretty cheap all in all.
So it seems as if we have, like, 3 design actions we need to do in the next...
@HeroCooky , we have active diplomatic effort on 'em, how do they and the military judge the likelihood of an offensive on the Duchy's part in the next 30-50 years?
2 Heavy Cruisers (16 DP)--Rad and Super-Strikecraft, because fuck we haven't even gotten to use the special squadron.
2 Light Cruisers (8 DP)--Flak Killer and Rad Lance
The Andromeda 2.0?? (another 4 DP)
We can probably also improve a lot of our smaller ships, that's pretty cheap all in all.
So it seems as if we have, like, 3 design actions we need to do in the next...
@HeroCooky , we have active diplomatic effort on 'em, how do they and the military judge the likelihood of an offensive on the Duchy's part in the next 30-50 years?
So what is expected, no secret weapon (that we know of).
So once they decide to actually betray us they could start steamrolling us. Crap.
Presumably a damage source that is not vulnerable to Flak.
Combined with something dealing with the shield (i.e. a rad lancer present to help).
HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
For the Duchy; anything that gets 'em out of the Phalanx so your fleet can gank them.
Anyone else; introduce Leo to face.
Middling to Low on the pessimistic side. That you are using diplomacy and haven't fucked with the FFZ shows that they can use diplomacy to stall for time.
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- They/Them
To be fair, I think that if they're attacking us the "war deciding" wouldn't, like be a thing?
Our people aren't going to look at casualties lost defending us from the conquest of genocidal tyrants the same as casualties lost failing to invade the enemy. That's never been how it works.
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
[] [Light Cruiser] Hydrus-class Rad Cruiser
-[] Length - 4,200 Meters
-[] Width - 550 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 6 Gravities (-1 DP)
-[] Armor - Thick Double Hull (-1 DP)
-[] Shields - One Matrix
-[] Weapons - 1x Rad-Lance /3x Heavy Lance Turrets (-8 DP)
-[] Equipment - Pure Lenses/Armored Lifepods/Ship Shrines/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Lattice Hulls/Anti-Radiation Hardening/Harsh Crew Training/Lens Cogitation Matrix Lattice (-15 DP)
A Light Cruiser developed with lessons from the Voxx Primus War in mind, the Hydrus-class is not a courageous ship that charges into the thick of things, but an assassin, equipped and trained to single out critical lynchpins to enemy Doctrine, and to sink its deadly venom into their very hearts. To this end, it is built around a heavily hardened Rad-Lance, intended to forcibly disrupt enemy shielding technology, so the follow-up killing blow from its superfiring lance turrets can strike them down. It makes use of the remarkable range extension technologies pioneered with the Sagittarius-S, coupled by the speed and agility that Federation voidships are known for in order to strike hard and evade reprisal. Not one to simply make use of new technology, the Shieldbreaker Cannon and the hull in general has been lined with potent, radiation-suppressing alloys and coatings, to ensure that the terror of Menace Alpha's weapons remain under tight control, and do not lash out at those who dare to pick them up.
I think this would be an adequate solution to the Duchy, could you confirm @HeroCooky ?
Duchy likes advancing slowly under the weight of their shields, but if their critical ships are getting sniped by ultra-long-range skirmishers who can disrupt their shields and then do direct hull damage, that puts the game back in our court. Flak Frigates are still Frigates after all, and shouldn't be able to survive an unshielded, three Heavy Lance alpha strike. Rad-Lances are spinal weapons, so I couldn't put more than one in without risking Fucky Wucky things happening, but it's a specialist weapon that exists to disrupt shields, and that should apply no matter the target.
CHANGELOG: Points were freed up by the a doctrine shift, which were re-invested to give thissolid mass Armor and maximum acceleration. This is our Phalanx Buster ship, with a Rad Lance being something that can knock a ship out of their shieldwall, no save just suck.
-[] Length - 4,200 Meters
-[] Width - 550 Meters
-[] Acceleration - 6 Gravities (-1 DP)
-[] Armor - Thick Double Hull (-1 DP)
-[] Shields - One Matrix
-[] Weapons - 1x Rad-Lance /3x Heavy Lance Turrets (-8 DP)
-[] Equipment - Pure Lenses/Armored Lifepods/Ship Shrines/Superior Gravimetric Engine Calculations/Lattice Hulls/Anti-Radiation Hardening/Harsh Crew Training/Lens Cogitation Matrix Lattice (-15 DP)
A Light Cruiser developed with lessons from the Voxx Primus War in mind, the Hydrus-class is not a courageous ship that charges into the thick of things, but an assassin, equipped and trained to single out critical lynchpins to enemy Doctrine, and to sink its deadly venom into their very hearts. To this end, it is built around a heavily hardened Rad-Lance, intended to forcibly disrupt enemy shielding technology, so the follow-up killing blow from its superfiring lance turrets can strike them down. It makes use of the remarkable range extension technologies pioneered with the Sagittarius-S, coupled by the speed and agility that Federation voidships are known for in order to strike hard and evade reprisal. Not one to simply make use of new technology, the Shieldbreaker Cannon and the hull in general has been lined with potent, radiation-suppressing alloys and coatings, to ensure that the terror of Menace Alpha's weapons remain under tight control, and do not lash out at those who dare to pick them up.
I think this would be an adequate solution to the Duchy, could you confirm @HeroCooky ?
Duchy likes advancing slowly under the weight of their shields, but if their critical ships are getting sniped by ultra-long-range skirmishers who can disrupt their shields and then do direct hull damage, that puts the game back in our court. Flak Frigates are still Frigates after all, and shouldn't be able to survive an unshielded, three Heavy Lance alpha strike. Rad-Lances are spinal weapons, so I couldn't put more than one in without risking Fucky Wucky things happening, but it's a specialist weapon that exists to disrupt shields, and that should apply no matter the target.
CHANGELOG: Points were freed up by the a doctrine shift, which were re-invested to give this
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There's only so much better strikecraft can do when you're going up against a wall of Flak.
We kinda got one with the planned Corona Light Cruiser, and I think we would need more quantity for our Rad-Lances since all that matters is to strip shields so we can have our Sagittarius Snipers to shoot the the shit out of them.
I'm not sure if the Anti-Radiation Hardening only applies to the outer armor or if its a ship wide buff to increase Rad protection from both external and internal sources. Best to ask for clarification (unless its already been confirmed to do that).
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
I mean, if you're going to be shooting a dirty bomb at people, you probably want your ship to not get hurt by the backwash.
But yeah, Phalanx Doctrine might let them link their shields, but I doubt it's nearly as stable as what a single ship can support. It's likely extremely vulnerable to disruption due to how it transmits and concentrates its shielding, so a single Rad-Lance should be enough to temporarily suppress it. It's still a spinal gun after all.
But yeah, Phalanx Doctrine might let them link their shields, but I doubt it's nearly as stable as what a single ship can support. It's likely extremely vulnerable to disruption due to how it transmits and concentrates its shielding, so a single Rad-Lance should be enough to temporarily suppress it. It's still a spinal gun after all.
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The micro-warp jumps will be good as well for our sniper ships but we will have to see how we can fit that in...and if that thing can go on strike craft(the sheer terror that would cause)
Our people probably would be even stronger on morale when we are invaded. True.
But i didn't take it as "morale" issue and more logistics.
Lets do some rounded napkin math:
2 fleets of 4 that we need to outnumber 4 to 1.
So we'd need 16 SGB to deal with one.
We currently have 6 SGB.
We can make 1 SGB per AP. And have 3 AP per turn. 5 if we go full emergency mode.
6 SGB trying to do what takes 32 SGB to do "without war deciding losses" sounds to me like it would result in a total wipeout of our ships.
Leaving us with 0 SGB of ships and the duchy still having their 8 SGB.
Meaning their Fleet is free to ransack our Systems while we produce ships in emergency mode.
At 5 SGB per turn we'd need 7 turns to get >32 SGB.
While they can take our systems.
Destroy or shipyards.
Snipe our fleets that are still building.
Aka a death spiral.
With the Fleet changes that fix their one-great-trick to get rid of the 4-1 factor it will be ok.
But without? I think they'd mop the floor with us.
The Rad-Lance disrupts every ship component that hasn't got Rad-Hardening (I assume). Which both knocks the ship out of a precise formation from engine/powerplant issues and causes their own shields to cut out.
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HeroCooky
Unverified Monstergirl
Yeah, this and the Corona are.
- Pronouns
- Zack
should we try making -[] Primitive Psychic Hoods ?
Definitely, that plus one more action invested in Psytech will move that into regular research with all of its bonuses. Just not happening this turn as we switched to get 15 in Civ Industry.
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- Zack
why do we need 15 in Civ Industry I don't remember the reason
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- They/Them
It's the next Milestone, so we get bonuses/etc.
Just a Reminder, I think we should update our fleet Doctrine b/c the one we have now is too conservative. I think we should either do Carrier Battle Group Focus if we want to focus more on improving our Big Ships, or Crusader Fleet Carrier Focus if we want to be able to slap more and bigger guns on stuff at the cost of diversity.
Though looking at Skirmish Carrier Focus, that's also not half bad for our purposes if we want to try mimicking the Eldar more.
Though looking at Skirmish Carrier Focus, that's also not half bad for our purposes if we want to try mimicking the Eldar more.
Crusader just means we have to get our diversity from cooperating specialist ships.
And I'm leaning to that or trying to see what we get if we add a constraint that the primary weapon type MUST have all its associated equipment.
Vote closed
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If we do write-ins that are basically "Build a shit ton of industry" it could be done. A trade deal buffed a lot of our industry at one point so why not this
I think this is for us attacking them. Them attacking us won't be so one-sided because of SDFs and the fortress initiative. Most of that firepower is big stations with lots of lances, so it's not nearly as vulnerable to the duchy's counter.
But I agree with the consensus that we need new ships. This next turn is probably the time to do any final research and switch doctrines. @Alectai I feel like I remember one of the doctrines giving some killer bonuses to a lance cruiser. Was it crusader? Any other research we need? Scattershot?
crusader is "per ship: main weapon type cost *0.5, all other weapon types cost *1.5; main weapon type can use 1 ship class higher (without the 50% rebate)".
Pretty good for all kinds of weapons.