Star Wars: Rebellion

Oh, okay. I guess I just got used to the interpretation that Dark Side powers simply require intense emotion and the Sith chose Hatred and Rage because they were easy to channel intensively. I imagine it takes lot more effort to get somekne to feel joy or similar emotion at the same level. Orchestrating suffering is rather easy, after all.

But your interpretation seems to be more along the lines of Good/Evil, positive emotion Light Side and negative emotion Dark Side, yeah?
Yep. Light is love, hope, joy-in short, constructive. Dark is anger, fear, hate- destructive, and not in a necessary "Forest fire to cleanse old growth" way but in a "Cancer that is also shooting lightning and making you a total asshole" way.
 
Well yeah, that's kinda how it's always been. That's less 'his interpretation' and more canon. The Dark Side is evil, there have been six different movies based around the premise. Somewhat well known, make up some *small* fraction of the Star Wars canon?

Yeah, no. The philosophy of the Dark Side was never really explained in the movies (at least not from the perspective of a user). There have always been several intepretations floating around the EU, there are DS characters that lived a productive, fulfilled, good life. There are several healing powers that fall under the purview of the DS, etc. Why do you think people dicussed becoming a Gray Jedi in this thread, the whole concept is born from the idea that the DS isn't wholly bad.

@Voikirium , okay. I'm not wholly sold on your interpretation, since I feel that it presents the Sith as cartoonishly evil and makes fallen Jedi look like idiots, but it won't really harm my enjoyment of the story. And if I had any doubts about pushing for a pure Jedi build, they have just been eradicated. ^^
 
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Yeah, no. The philosophy of the Dark Side was never really explained in the movies (at least not from the perspective of a user). There have always been several intepretations floating around the EU, there are DS characters that lived a productive, fulfilled, good life. There are several healing powers that fall under the purview of the DS, etc. Why do think people dicussed becoming a Gray Jedi in this thread, the whole concept is born from the idea the DS isn't wholly bad.

@Voikirium , okay. I'm not wholly sold on your interpretation, since I feel that I presents the as cartoonishly evil and makes fallen Jedi look like idiots, but it won't really harm my enjoyment of the story. And if I had any doubts, about pushing for a pure Jedi build, they have just been eradicated. ^^

And I deeply agree. The Sith have always been portrayed as evil, and when the evil Emperor is saying, "Join the Dark Side" that's, you know, a bad thing. And, the idea that the DS isn't wholly bad is called "EU believes strange things." Jedi who fall aren't idiots, they're just selfish assholes who are deluded. "Join the darkside, and you can fuck Padme all you want and marry her and nobody'll judge you...oh, and give in to your hate and start murdering people, but let's ignore that for now."

The Dark Side has *always* been portrayed as a bad thing in actual canon, as opposed to a number of contradictory EU sources.

Restoring the balance to the force=Stopping the Sith, not using the Dark and Light equally.

The very worst people in literally *all* Star Wars media use the Dark Side and give in to the darkside. Vadar, Palpatine, Dooku, Greevious, when that kid goes insane and starts Sun Crushing places? Dark Side. When Jacen becomes a paranoid, murderous asshole whose death literally makes the galaxy so much better? Dark Side. That you can cite one or a few primarily video-game characters who have used the dark side and haven't skipped straight to pure evil isn't really any particular evidence.

There's literally not a single Light-Sider who never uses the Dark Side that has caused even one *fraction* of the pain and suffering that the top tep worst Dark-Siders have.

Good and evil exist in the Star Wars universe, don't know what to tell you.

And I know about DS philosophy, yes. There's nothing good or particularly redeemable about it, even if the individuals can be rehabilitated.
 
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There's really no use discussing this here then, since this is a rather fundamental disagreement that would derail the thread.
I'll just say that in my opinion, people aren't binary and the Force isn't, either. Maybe I'll send you a PM when it's not 3a.m..
 
There's really no use discussing this here then, since this is a rather fundamental disagreement that would derail the thread.
I'll just say that in my opinion, people aren't binary and the Force isn't, either. Maybe I'll send you a PM when it's not 3a.m..

I'm just going to point out that literally if you made a list of 'Top ten most evil Force users who caused the most pain and suffering in the universe' Dark-Siders would fill every single spot. Hell, there might not be a Light-Side force user might not even be in the top twenty. Maybe even more than that.

And sure, I agree that people aren't binary, not every Light-Sider is Yoda, not every Dark-Sider is Palpatine. But that doesn't make the Dark-Side any less the side that happens to have all of the mass-murders on its side.
 
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[X] A gift of the Force

and

[X] Rebel except for the Assault Troopers

And I'm not inclined to believe in the idea of a "Grey Side" of the Force. Ultimately, when it comes down to it, you're either a Jedi or a Sith.

While it may be possible to use some powers that are traditionally associated with the Sith as a Jedi and there's nothing to say a Sith can't use powers that you'd think would be light-side exclusive, when it comes right down to it trying to be a Jedi who flirts with the Dark Side is never going to end well.
 
I try to think of this way, it is possible for a Dark Side Force User to do good things, or carry out actions for the 'Greater Good' of the galaxy. Trouble is the mind set to fully utilise the Dark Side makes it near impossible that they would do so.

The Sith Doctrine shows them to have a very individualistic dogma, they have little empathy for others. To act in a 'morally right' way as a Dark Sider requires an equally selfish reason to act in that way.
 
Yeah, I was never saying 'Use the dark side of the force once and you're a horrible, irredeemable monster that has to be put down.' Maybe it's even possible to occasionally use the dark side of the force as part of the overall set of actions, but that feels like it's getting into 'dangerous forbidden technique' territory, rather than a way of life. A Jedi using a Sith power once in a desperate fight, or as a last-resort, is very different from marinating yourself in the dark side constantly. One of those makes a cool video-game character who can force-choke people, the other makes, generally, a psychopath.
 
The problem with using dark side powers is that, much like murder, once you've rationalized doing it once, it becomes much harder to not do it again. It also screws your empathy, you end up figuring that the ends justify the means, and suddenly you're a war criminal.
 
The problem with using dark side powers is that, much like murder, once you've rationalized doing it once, it becomes much harder to not do it again. It also screws your empathy, you end up figuring that the ends justify the means, and suddenly you're a war criminal.

Yes. The Dark Side in itself is addictive and corrupting by nature, whether physically or mentally, you will go in with a goal and you will do terrible things to acomplish it because it feels right.

To fully master the Dark Side you have to balance Ruthless, Rationality and the pursuit of power. Which is nearly impossible because you draw your power from emotions that cloud your judgement. Even Revan couldn't accomplish this and when he tried balance it with the light... well it ultimately led to him attempting a galactic size genocide... twice if you count his Dark Side made manifest.
 
Honestly, I've had this debate before, but when you look at the sheer damage that fallen Jedi, let alone Sith, can do you start to understand the Old Jedi Order of the Old Republic a lot more. Yes, their 'no love' rule was ultimately wrong or at least misguided, but they were attempting to impose order on a chaotic world when one of their members going bad would lead to countless deaths. Like, if a Monk breaks the rules of the monastery and flees during the middle ages, he's not going to literally singlehandedly overthrow France, slaughtering hundreds of thousands and then attempt to go to war with God in the name of Satan.

Considering the risks, I totally understand how they were very cautious about things, and remember that for thousands of years it *mostly* worked. The galaxy wasn't perfect or even great, but it ticked along, and so far as we can tell, most Jedi were happy and fulfilled by the rules as they were, lived good lives, and died of old age quite content. There are exceptions, and the danger is where the hard and fast rule doesn't allow exceptions, but considering how many thousands of Jedi there were that never fell and found fulfillment in the order, they could have done a LOT worse.

And their enemies were literally Space Evil-Old-Hitler by the end of the prequel Trilogy, which no doubt helps them by comparison.
 
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Confrontation
Confrontation

You are Luke Skywalker, all of twelve years old, and terrified. Obi-Wan was off buying supplies for the lessons, and had left you on the ship. That had been an hour ago, and you were starting to get nervous. From your position in the ship's Co-Pilot seat, you barely managed to flick on the coms- only to find nothing but random bursts of static.

Then, an explosion bursts through the deck of the station you're in. There are parts flying everywhere, people are screaming. A screech of metal on metal draws your attention to one big chunk of durasteel. Obi-wan is lying in front of it, and he's bleeding. A demon of black and red and a sound of breath like nothing you've heard before comes from, and when he opens his mouth, a voice deep and dark like a Krayt dragon's lair pours out. "I have you now, Kenobi. Your failure is complete."

You don't even think before your hands are flying to the control stick of the Transport, cheap upgrades in the form of a small blaster welded onto the ship coming to a life with a harsh shriek before slinging energy at the demon. He blocks the shots, but he's distracted from his target. Obi-Wan leaps up and over him and ignites his lightsaber before driving it through the Demon's leg. Vader, as something whispers to you, does not crumple like someone else would, instead preferring to smack Obi-Wan away, but then his leg falls when Vader puts pressure on it as he tries to follow.

Slicing through one of the Soldiers that followed him, Obi-Wan looks up and curses as he notices something on the rafters, jumps behind the scary looking ship that the mean men with the tattoos came from. A second later, some sort of red orb slams into the ship, causing a massive explosion to tear through it like flimsi. You see Obi-Wan deflect a blaster shot at one of the men who followed Vader, sending it back at him to send him tumbling down. Running, Obi-Wan is a twirling blue light afterwards, ducking plenty of random junk sent at him by the still prone Vader.

Finally he manages to reach the ship, and ducking one last blast by a angered Vader, he slams into the ship. Vader finally manages to get up, and tries to leap for the pronounced cockpit, but is stopped by another explosion ripping through the station. Pulling out, Obi-Wan sets half a dozen switches upright before finally blasting for home- but not before dropping something out of the Cargo Hold.

Sighing once he heads back to the Cockpit and Pilot's seat, he leans back in his chair. "Luke, what you did today was foolish, irresponsible, and very nearly ended terribly..."You lower your head, in shame..."And brave, courageous, and a shining mark of what potential you have." Ruffling your hair, he holds his purchase close, a green crystal. Smiling, you go back to looking out the window. And as you head back home, you wonder how you'll explain this to your aunt and uncle...
 
There was an earlier alternate continuity post that I think is involved in this somehow.

About four years ago Luke got captured by the Tusken Raiders and Obi-Wan and Owen did some sort of heroic rescue with Obi-Wan reliving his Jedi Past. Owen doesn't immediately forgive him, but offers the chance to visit Luke and teach him.

From the looks of things Obi-Wan has stopped brooding and started realising that he can fight back, if only by training Luke, Vader now has confirmation that Obi-Wan is still alive and active, but has to explain to Palpy why all his men died and Owen isn't going to be happy that the two of them ran into Vader.
 
Luke a-ah
Savior of the Universe

Luke a-ah
He'll save every one of us

(Seemingly there is no reason for these extraordinary intergalactical upsets)
(Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha)
(What's happening Flash?)
(OnlyTellus Othello, former soldier of the Clone Wars, has provided any explanation)

Luke a-ah
He's a miracle

(This morning's unprecedented solar eclipse is no cause for alarm)

Luke a-ah
King of the impossible

He's for every one of us
Stand for every one of us
He save with a mighty hand
Every man, every woman
Every child, with his mighty
Force

(Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker approaching.)
(What do you mean Luke Skywalker approaching? Open fire! All weapons! Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body)

Luke a-ah
(Skywalker's alive!)

Luke a-ah
He'll save every one of us

Just a man
With a man's courage
You know he's
Nothing but a man
And he can never fail
No one but the pure at heart
May find the Golden Grail
...Oh..Oh........Oh..Oh ................

(Luke, Luke, I love you, but we only have fourteen hours to save the universe!)

Luke

 
Om'Veda

Born: BBY:30

Paranoid: He doesn't trust anyone much. (+2 Intrigue, -1 Diplomacy)
Genius: Damn smart. (+2 All Stats)
Strategist: He thinks half a dozen moves ahead of any foe. (+2 Martial, +1 Stewardship)
Duelist: He duels. (+2 Martial)

Stats:
Diplomacy:
16-1+2=17
Martial: 20+2+2+2=26
Stewardship: 10+1+2=13
Intrigue: 16+2+2=20
Piety(Dark Side): 5+2=7
Learning: 13+2=15
 
Om'Veda

Born: BBY:30

Paranoid: He doesn't trust anyone much. (+2 Intrigue, -1 Diplomacy)
Genius: Damn smart. (+2 All Stats)
Strategist: He thinks half a dozen moves ahead of any foe. (+2 Martial, +1 Stewardship)
Duelist: He duels. (+2 Martial)

Stats:
Diplomacy:
16-1+2=17
Martial: 20+2+2+2=26
Stewardship: 10+1+2=13
Intrigue: 16+2+2=20
Piety(Dark Side): 5+2=7
Learning: 13+2=15

 
Turn 13
Turn 13
BBY 6

Survey

The sounds of battle dominate your environment, the screams of the dead and dying. The Hutt mercenary forces pound at you with artillery, their soldiers rushing to almost certain doom at you. As you watch, one of your men stabs one through the chest with his chainsword and flings him away. Grabbing a blaster, you are soon leading your troops to victory, cutting the foe down. With precision and skill that can be the result of only one thing, you strike at the enemy. You watch them fall before you- before your might- and you smile.

Martial: You feel great. For the first time in ages, you are doing something you can be proud of.
(Pick 1)


At Your Disposal: There are still plenty of Hutt facilities in the Ojoster Sector. Working with Om to remove them is the easiest way you can think of to get him off your back- but it'll take time, and you'll have to help Imperials.
-Locked-

Raiding Pirates: You can't and probably shouldn't hit the Imperials too hard, too fast. At least, not yet. Pirates, on the other hand? Are a different story, one full of you stealing their stuff. As a bonus, you'll almost certainly free some slaves and impress enough youth that you will get some recruits. Of course, Om might manage to be useful and help if you hit them- though you'll probably only get a smaller chunk of the reward.
Cost: 600 Credits

Chance Of Success:75%

Reward: Loot, the warm fuzzy feeling of killing pirates, Recruits,???

Supply Lines: The Empire needs men and materiel for its battle against the Mandalorians, and to keep its strong grasp on the galaxy. Funnily enough you need much the same. Raid the Empire under guise of pirates, strike them from the shadow, make them bleed, and take their materials, rescue their slaves, and be a hellacious nuisance. Of course, doing it under the Twi'Lek's nose could be… difficult.
Cost:500 credits

Chance Of Success:50%

Reward: Credits, freed slaves, materiel

Off My Planet: This is clearly the perfect time to declare to the Galaxy that you are- and that your planet is- a rebel stronghold- by beating the Twi'lek off the planet. Of course, when the Empire comes a knocking, you might have a slight problem. Like the millions of men and ships likely to slam on you- Hard- if you do so.
Cost: 10,000 credits

Chance Of Success: 10% (Note- for removing Om'veda)

Reward: Immediately begin Galactic Civil War, Take Om off Taris

Extra Training: Strikebreakers are fairly easy to pilot and use- a benefit that you simply could not ignore. However, they are still tanks, and as such, it might benefit you to have some extra training for your men in charge of piloting them. You know a guy or two who can help.
Cost: 4000 Credits, 2 years

Reward: Properly trained tankers

Diplomacy: You've received a few offers from various parties.
(Pick 1)

Mandalorian Aid: Mandalore has been torn apart by war, and though you have little love lost with the Jedi's second ancestral foe, the fact remains that innocent beings suffer when you- sending some part of your vast credit fortune- could ease their suffering. Something in that equation strikes you as terribly, terribly wrong.
-Locked-

The Underworld: Smugglers, bounty hunters, and mercenaries are, as a general rule, not very fond of the Empire. You and they share that in common, at least. Perhaps some may be found who are not utter scum, to work together and make common cause against the Imperials?
Cost:500 Credits

Chance Of Success:75%

Bread Crumbs: Mira is well aware of the Empire's propensity towards paranoia, and would like to turn it on them by leaving a few suggestions of who the third party would be- unpopular moffs, corrupt businessmen, knight-templars crusading with vigorous hate against the Hutts- maybe a few of the cartels hoping to see the enemy brought low?
Cost: 700 Credits

Chance Of Success: 80%

Reward: Empire focused on Someone else

What Do You Say?: Rahm Kota, Ferus Olin, and their allies are also rebels- independent cells, working in disarray from you. You think they respect you, but you are not more than a thorn in the Empire's side right now. Working together, you can be something more. Something greater than his poison. But someone will need to lead- and you will admit to a certain fondness if it ends up being you.
Cost: 3,000 Credits, 3 years

Chance Of Success:40%

Reward: Ferus Olin and Rahm Kota will follow your commands

Tanda And The Fair Harbour-Imperial: Maybe the Imperials would be willing to give a reward for these slime bags? Turning your foes further against each other is a gift from the Force, at least. (Cannot be taken with other Tanda option)
Cost: Free

Chance Of Success: 50%

Reward: Imperial Reward

Tanda and the The Fair Harbour- Planetary Governments: You are quite willing to bet that someone somewhere would be quite willing to pay from amongst the many planetary governments which Tanda has hurt- though it is unlikely to be so potent as The Imperial Reward. (Cannot be taken With other Tanda option)
Cost: Free

Chance Of Success:100%

Reward: Gift

Merger: The Incom Corporation has made some overtures towards purchasing the rights for your factory and schematics. They have offered some very generous terms for exactly how much bigger than you they are- a good sized cut of the profits, and easy access to their facilities and weapons for your, uh, hobby.
Cost: 2,000 credits

Chance Of Success:70%

Reward: Incom corporation merger

Ceasefire: You are a Jedi. You bring peace to the stars, hope to the hopeless, and Light to the Dark. The Grand Crusade against the Hutts has gone on long enough- let it end. You will go amongst the Hutts, and get them to Ceasefire, long enough for the Imperials to do their jobs.
Cost: 5,000 Credits

Chance Of Success:40%

Reward: Ceasefire

Proof: Om'Veda serves the Empire because he believes it brings stability and peace to his home. By personal experience, you can call that a damn lie, the sort you once told yourself. You can prove it.
Cost: 500 Credits

Chance Of Success:60%

Reward: Om'Veda defects to the Rebellion

Stewardship: Work on Ruusan goes well.
(Pick 1)

A New Base: Given the bastard currently poking around in your affairs, it might be wise to have a new base- a basic one- built somewhere else in the galaxy, for privacy's sake.

-locked-

Advanced Offences: Bigger turrets, meaner traps, and other "Aggressive Defenses" to supplement your current base will do good things for your ability to fight your foe. You would quite like to have something at least equal to a high quality Pirate base.
Cost: 4,000 credits

Reward: More Killy Base

Better Detection: Your paranoia is currently telling you that you have only a few years before it all goes to hell. You would like to have a bit more advanced sensor network, to ensure you can tell when someone is poking around the area.
Cost:2,000 credits

Reward: Advanced Sensor network

Learning: You have plenty of things for your science division to work on.
(Pick 2)

Swording: Chainswords are unwieldy beasts, big and personal. You aren't saying they should stop being so- but getting them controllable for people not laced with muscle could be a gift from above for your soldiers.
Cost: 4,000 Credits, 4 Years

Chance Of Success: 70%

Reward: Slimmer, more easily controlled Chainswords

Mortars: Artillery is great. You'd like to have some for yourself, but for obvious reasons you can't exactly rely on being capable of purchasing them. Best to know how to produce your own, yeah?
Cost: 1,000 Credits, 2 years

Chance Of Success:70%

Reward: Mortars

Production Model: Right now all you've got is schematics and projections. Getting an actual A-55 built for prototype testing and to ensure you are actually capable of it.
Cost: 1,000 Credits

Chance Of Success:80%

Reward: A-55 Produced

Piety: You think you know what the things you found last year is for.
(Pick 2)

A Minor Thing, Pt. 2: You have your location- now you just to build. Of course, that should be much easier and quicker given the Schematics you found- but with Om on your case, it rather balances out, given the need for secrecy.
Cost: 5,000 Credits, Three Years

Chance Of Success: 75%

Reward: Jedi Praxeum building

Conclave: You contacted Jedi last year, lots of them. They probably aren't all still alive- thirteen years can't have been good for them- but you imagine that some of them will want to meet.

You need them to meet.
Cost: 1,000 Credits

Chance Of Success:40%

Reward: Conclave of the Jedi Survivors

Taking On Padawans: Entani and Jorek will both need education, if not as much as the term Padawan brings to mind. You could take on one as a Padawan yourself, and have Ahsoka take on the other.
Cost: Free

Reward: Jorek and Entani taken on as Padawans by you/Ahsoka

Intrigue: You have a few things you still need to do.
(Pick 2)

Break The Stalemate: The Hutts and Empire tear each other apart each day and innocent people die each day. You have no problem with the soldiers dying- but the innocent? That you will not abide. You must get them moving again by turning their battles decisively one way or the other.
Cost: 300 Credits

Chance Of Success: 50%

Reward: Stalemate broken without your part known to the Empire or the Hutts.

Meeting: Allon is a Bandit Gen'dai and contender for King. You would like him on your side- but for various, obvious reasons, you can't exactly just march up and meet with him. This must be both stealthy and fruitful- you'll need time to put it together.
Cost: 1,000 Credits, 2 years

Chance Of Success:80%

Reward: Meeting with Allon (Not A Miniturn)

Strike From Afar: You have Morningstar snipers, and Evocci who would like to use them. You can have them trained in Marksmanship, and other, less pleasant things. It will take time, though.
Cost: 2,000 Credits, 2 years

Reward: Evocci Scouts armed with Morningstar Snipers

Personal: You feel near a breakthrough.

Please, Listen: Asajj might just be willing to listen, might be willing to turn her back on the dark, given how kind you have been.
-Locked-
 
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Martial: You feel great. For the first time in ages, you are doing something you can be proud of.
(Pick 1)



Extra Training:

Calm down, and start training.

Diplomacy: You've received a few offers from various parties.
(Pick 1)


Merger:

Hold off on the defecting bit.

Stewardship: Work on Ruusan goes well.
(Pick 1)


Better Detection:

Forewarned is forearmed.

Learning: You have plenty of things for your science division to work on.
(Pick 2)


Mortars:


Production Model:

Obvious.

Piety: You think you know what the things you found last year is for.
(Pick 2)


Conclave:

Taking On Padawans:

More padawans and getting backup.

Intrigue: You have a few things you still need to do.
(Pick 2)


Meeting:


Strike From Afar:

Obvious.
 
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