- Location
- Terminus
Except that Taylor is symbolically Titania here, she pretty much is the mother of the Fae, considering she created them (or at least created the LA fad with them).
Skitterdoc 2077
- Thread starter SpiraSpira
- Start date
- Crossover
Except that Taylor is symbolically Titania here, she pretty much is the mother of the Fae, considering she created them (or at least created the LA fad with them).
I'm not saying grams would have not profited off the deal. Maybe something like 49% of the shares and show taylor how useful her help is. I've pointed out those options.
Grams doesn't need a better deal than that. And its beneficial to herself to take it.
In terms of "no no string attached deals". Plenty of corporation to corporation meetings include minor gifts being thrown around. Same with in-corporation meetings. Including sucking up to people and trying to gain their favour. Networking.
Doing a honestly pretty minor favour for taylor like "Take her company safely under her umbrella and send someone to her which knows business and can double as a spy on taylor who is even closer to her then most of spys can normally get", is pretty damn good for the potential benefits. And shouldn't be unthinkable for a corpo who has to deal with people.
But probably not as much / as good information as she could be getting.
Theres abit of a difference between
'Rather than being screwed over by you and caged up. I'd prefer to atleast try.' Which Grams knows taylor has been considering might happen.
And offering upfront help for clear motives and not trying to use it to screw you over, and infact trying to foster a cordial relationship. With little to no lost freedom on taylors side.
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- Location
- US
Gram knows that Taylor knows that such a deal would include strings like a spy. Just the act of offering again at this point would hurt her relationship with Taylor. And the timing is all wrong. She isn't in danger of dying of old age any time soon, she's fairly likely to be immortal even without Taylor, and accelerating the timeline at this point just makes it likely that Saburo Arasaka will become immortal.
Except she never offered it. She offered Pleasant Cage, then 'leave, but make me immortality within 25 years'.
Taylor basically said 'I'd rather give it a good try than take a cage, and there is a decent chance the company that takes it will give me a pittance to use on my next project.'
Gram could of said 'Eh, just give it to me then and I'll pay a price higher than you probably would get for it'.
Or she could have offered to put it under her umbrella, so that companies are less likely to try and take it. Maybe by taking 49% of the shares or something if grams really wanted.
But instead Gram never offers any sort of benefits to working together. Its either Gilded Cage, or leave and get me immortality within 25 years for not caging you.
If Grams had actually made her a offer like this, then taylor refused. That would be different.
So What?
Taylor already knows she has pretty decent spies. And the more taylor does the more spying is going to happen, both from Grams and others.
This way taylor gets help from Grams, and sees the benefits of working together. Someone who likes Grams is decently likely to become close to taylor and help taylor like grams. And Grams could even benefit financially from helping too.
All those things Taylor should easily see. It should make sense to taylor why Grams might offer her a smidgen of help, even excluding familial ties.
Because in pretty much any other situation, a corpo would either offer taylor a deal like this, or more likely cage taylor or threaten her. Not just throw her loose.
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Ace Dreamer
Verified Reality User
- Location
- Between The Unknown & The Known
Bah! Those are just light-weight Tolkein-flavoured humans. Wood elves, at best, who have lost contact with their From Over The Sea heritage. You need to look at things like dryads and nymphs to see what lower-grade fae are like, or some of the stranger Japanese supernaturals.
Look to Celtic legend, and Old English bits, for the true Fae (or some Japanese full-blown Kami), the ones who wear a human form like a convenient cloak, and think just about anything human is, at best, amusing. And, if you're a bit unlucky, annoying. Or, you've just broken some deadly rule, which to them is 'obvious'. And, as a result, they can explore just how far they can go with fates-worse-than-death.
It would be... bad for Taylor to become one of these greater Fae. Gram might approve, but I'm pretty sure Taylor'd enjoy her life a lot less.
Took me a while, but I suspect I know why Gram+Taylor's behaviour doesn't make sense to you...
You are assuming humans are rational.
They aren't.
This is one reason why traditional (neo-classical?) economics doesn't work. It assumes rational behaviour - the 'rational economic unit'. You might want to look at Kahneman's prospect theory.
Also, if you look at the reasons people start companies it is rarely for financial purposes. Yes, you need to make money to keep things going, but that is not the initial motivation. In fact, once 'money men' take over a company, that's often a really bad sign, and its days are numbered.
This interacts in fun ways with the 'ultra capitalism' of CP'77. In many ways the whole corp thing is being used as a social structure. The money is secondary. There's some strange abstract tribal stuff going on, 'in' and 'out' groupings. Arguably, 'nation', another abstract concept, is playing the same social games. One reason some say 'never trust a nationalist', possibly because even they may not be sure what they're talking about.
So, what Taylor and Gram do or don't do about the BD/sleep-minimiser company is not about rationality. It is inter-personal power politics. Evolutions of primate posturing (arguable mammal pack behaviour). Survival logic.
Rationality? Try getting an AI, on each side, to negotiate? Fail. Because those will, at base level, have been created by humans. And, if they don't work in a human-compatible way, they'll never be used, will be junked.
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Mate, it isn't about money, she already has more than she can spend.
It simply isn't in Grannies nature* as @Endymion already said, Whether its her appearance, her power, etc she's pretty much a Scifi Fae.
Every deal or 'favour' will come with hooks and conditions, it might take years for them to actually sink in, but they will be there all the same.
Whether they're games for the sake of games, disguised life lessons and tough love, or to trap her precious (grand)children before anyone else could. Edit: Or tradition
The end result would be the same, trapped in a cage of her own making.
AKA: The only winning move is not to play.
*Nor the way she was nurtured, for that matter.
And ofcourse Tay would have to meet with Granny somewhat regularly, bonding over tea time, to prepare for her debut to high society, to make up for lost time etc.
(The distance could be an excuse for 'fewer' meetings, but not for none.)
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I think there's no point explaining further why Granny is an amoral Corpo CEO that is not capable of having a normal dotting relationship with her granddaughter.
This is a fundamental bias online called GEILF Goggles (Grandma Elf I'd Like to F). This was inevitable when SpiraSpira described her as "She was slim, not surprisingly, except for some well-defined hips and bust-line, with pale-complexioned skin and long, braided, red hair". After that point in the story any negative traits written down got promptly ignored.
Some people might use derogatory terms like "elf simps" but not me, I know they can't help themselves as it's a chronic condition.
I'm joking of course. I think Sionainn helping Taylor would quickly resolve most of her short to mid term issues and would end the story prematurely.
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- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
There's a good explanation for why she is like this in her position, of course. Having to claw your way up the corporate ladder tend to select for the kind of morals free control obsessed personality who see everyone in their life as something to be used or discarded. Taylor could never have a normal relationship with. There's exceptions and well adjusted execs but this was a statistically likely.
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I'd disagree, simply because she's not a total sociopath. She may (and to be honest, this wouldn't be a shock at all, and would fit the rest of the profile) a psychopath, yes. (Difference, really between the two for this point, at least as I learned it in law school, because one is a defense, the other is why you fry... is empathy. Sociopaths don't have any, psychopaths do, but aberrant.) But... I'd like to point something out.
Sionainn was raised with really classic views, that the US/West hasn't seen since more or less pre World War 2.
And in that view, the elders teach the youngsters. Not dote on them as primary. What I was reading was very close how I would expect that to go.
That might be the out of story reason, yes. It'd make things too easy. I'd also like to point out (I don't recall offhand if I pointed this out here) Sionainn already stepped in a major way to give Taylor some serious cover.
Edit: "appears to have been raised" was what I thought when I said "was raised". Don't want to speak for the author.
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- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
You really need to not be an opponent before you can be accepted as a teacher.
And even now pretty much every promotion process in the world selects for narcissist megalomaniacs, regardless of the facade they wear. Trust is minimal and slow to develop.
Plus cyberpunk 2077 is a wonderfully sly evisceration of the idea that if two parties meet, and each has something the other wants, they will trade. I mean, they might, but it's a definite second choice. If two parties meet and they want what the other has, they will just attempt to take it. Theft before trade, unless there's pretty close parity of power and everyone knows that going in.
"Should", twice. It does seem like you are working with a different mental model of what is going on here than I am.
And even now pretty much every promotion process in the world selects for narcissist megalomaniacs, regardless of the facade they wear. Trust is minimal and slow to develop.
Plus cyberpunk 2077 is a wonderfully sly evisceration of the idea that if two parties meet, and each has something the other wants, they will trade. I mean, they might, but it's a definite second choice. If two parties meet and they want what the other has, they will just attempt to take it. Theft before trade, unless there's pretty close parity of power and everyone knows that going in.
"Should", twice. It does seem like you are working with a different mental model of what is going on here than I am.
Jordisk
<Unverified N00B>
- Location
- Blind Eternities
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
...viruses don't have DNA. They are basically RNA with an injector/shell. That RNA gets used like all other RNA, as a build order for the cell, but it builds a thing that changes the DNA. The new DNA is then copied into RNA build orders to make the viral shells and the original RNA until the cell literally explodes from having too much stuff, sending more viruses everywhere.
Endymion
An Operator will be with you shortly.
Going back to the chapter itself, it's interesting the things not said during the meeting. No mention of BT, no alluding to current events, just direct information about Sakura's business and it's main product. Sionainn can only get confirmation on evidence. Conclusion: Taylor successfully kept her biggest actionable secret that she is responsible for the CHOOM plankton. If her Grandmother knew or even suspected Taylor's involvement there would have been at least a probing question to get a reaction since a reaction is confirmation for Sionainn.
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
This is pointlessly pedantic, you can replace DNA with RNA in my post and it works just as well.
I learnt something!
- Location
- France
- Pronouns
- She/They
Fair enough, I'm mostly annoyed by the tone implied in the correction, but that's always hard to read online.
Fellow Human
Verified Roado Rolla
Caught up, ah yes that last bit would've sparked the derail.
Me thinks gran gran owes tay tay cookies.
Me thinks gran gran owes tay tay cookies.
Ace Dreamer
Verified Reality User
- Location
- Between The Unknown & The Known
This is one of the reasons the term 'genetic material' is used. But, unfortunately, some consider the term synonymous with 'DNA', ignoring RNA. And, that 'human genetic material' includes DNA, and mitochondrial RNA.
So, should we consider 'TNA', Taylor Nucleic Acid?
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Fredo
Climbing Mt Doom
There are DNA viruses as well as RNA viruses.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Wasn't there a demonstration of an artificial (in the sense that evolved bio does not use it that way) amino acid used to create pseudo-DNA with a new letter, last year or two?
Might be a really cool way to block viruses, if they use a different set of DNA letters than Taylor's artificial organisms.
Might be a really cool way to block viruses, if they use a different set of DNA letters than Taylor's artificial organisms.
In addition to ignoring the viruses that do have DNA genomes, it makes inaccurately specific statements about RNA viruses. Many, probably most, do not 'change the DNA' in their reproductive cycle at all. Retroviruses in particular do (specifically by being able to reverse transcribe their RNA genome into a DNA sequence), but others simply make new RNA off their own RNA genome. Also, many RNA viral genomes are not used directly as mRNA (one category is specifically identified by having the wrong strand to be able to do so). And not all cellular RNA is mRNA.
Also, virus exit strategies from cells vary. I don't know whether 'literally explodes from having too much stuff' is ever accurate, though it might be in some cases! It definitely isn't true for all cases.
A significant set of viruses are 'enveloped', wrapping their nucleic acid and protein payload in a membrane similar to (and often but not always derived from) the cell's outer membrane.
The inability of Grams to grasp the intricacies of Taylor's immortality prevents her from asking the right questions, and altering the course of the story. Taylor's using her bodies previous identities to make decisions has placed Grams particular skill into a gargage in/ garbage out position. Grams thinks she is making good decisions but this is based on her limited knowledge and could change at any time that she gets an accurate idea as to how Taylor really works. Revealing the true nature of Taylor's immortality would pose a significant risk. To ensure her safety, Taylor must keep Grandma in the dark and focus on enhancing her backups and preparing appropriate consequences for this situation and other potential threats.
An approach Taylor could take is manipulating immoral and powerful individuals in threatening corps, by obtaining genetic samples and creating new bodies for them, using soul killer . By forcing these individuals to act as trip wires and redirect their organizations, Taylor can minimize the attention on herself and her own organization. Alternatively, Taylor could wait for a military force to target her and demonstrate her formidable power by eliminating them in a frightening manner. She can ensure her survival by preparing a replacement body and setting up assassinations, Make an example of certain individuals in a manner using corpo speak to indicate the threat of them continuing. She can also start using various tactics such as assasination to apply pressure or bribery.
Still one of her best options might be Taylor selling her sleep inducer for favorable terms, using the resources gained to fortify her position for future opportunities. It is essential for her to have a standby body to activate, preventing her capabilities from diminishing if she needs to employ her torture or enslavement protocols. She aims to avoid becoming a mere brain in a jar.
Taylor possesses multiple options, and the decision lies in how ruthless she is willing to be in her actions. If she is willing to be ruthless enough she could move right now but, waiting with more resources and more backup is probably the right choice.
Alternate nucleotides are a good deal older than the last year or two, actually!
Also, interestingly, you don't need to use novel nucleotides for the effect you're going for here. If you significantly change the genetic code of the cell (the mapping from mRNA sequences to amino acid sequences), any virus that relies on the cell's translation machinery won't be able to function in it. (I think they all do, but I'm not certain.) And you can absolutely do this using only the natural four. (I actually worked on a project that had this in its motivations, though I don't believe that project got far enough to have been likely to produce strong effects like that.)
Though if you did switch to entirely using non-natural nucleotides it would have interesting additional effects! You might have the cell simply not maintain supplies the natural set, so a normal virus wouldn't be able to find the materials for new nucleic acid in the cell, which would be a rather insurmountable barrier! It would also mean that your cell might not be able to live on normal growth media unless it has pathways to produce those nucleotides for itself.
- Location
- Chicago
- Pronouns
- She/They
Appreciate having someone with expertise here, thanks Aineko.
I'm curious what ends you see her doing this for? It seems like an implicit 'take over the world' plan, but tbh I don't think we've ever seen that level of ambition or domineering behavior out of Taylor. She seems like she mostly wants to just have friends, do stuff herself with her hands and brains, and make life better for everyone anonymously.
There is the 'I want to remain unfettered', but the nasty secret there is that the only way to maintain perfect freedom for one person is for no one else to have any: if you can do anything you want to, then everyone else necessarily needs to change their plans to accommodate yours. I think she's smarter than falling into that sort of a reactive doom loop, but I might be wrong; a ton of villains and dictators fall into the spiral of needing more power to stave off (real or imagined) threats to their power.
So with Taylor well set up for money and freedom, on the edge of having too much of both to be ignored by the big players, and apparently not real interested in playing their game, I hope we start seeing her think a bit more about what winning looks like to her. What is her endgame? Not for everyone else she wants to help, for her. What are the markers that tell her she has accomplished her goals and can now fck off to retirement? What does she see herself doing in retirement, assuming that we can specify it must be things for herself that make her happy?
I'm curious what ends you see her doing this for? It seems like an implicit 'take over the world' plan, but tbh I don't think we've ever seen that level of ambition or domineering behavior out of Taylor. She seems like she mostly wants to just have friends, do stuff herself with her hands and brains, and make life better for everyone anonymously.
There is the 'I want to remain unfettered', but the nasty secret there is that the only way to maintain perfect freedom for one person is for no one else to have any: if you can do anything you want to, then everyone else necessarily needs to change their plans to accommodate yours. I think she's smarter than falling into that sort of a reactive doom loop, but I might be wrong; a ton of villains and dictators fall into the spiral of needing more power to stave off (real or imagined) threats to their power.
So with Taylor well set up for money and freedom, on the edge of having too much of both to be ignored by the big players, and apparently not real interested in playing their game, I hope we start seeing her think a bit more about what winning looks like to her. What is her endgame? Not for everyone else she wants to help, for her. What are the markers that tell her she has accomplished her goals and can now fck off to retirement? What does she see herself doing in retirement, assuming that we can specify it must be things for herself that make her happy?