Skitterdoc 2077

Good point, but if the communication and keeping the two brains in sync is so finicky, the minuscule dilatation between Earth and an orbital station would probably cause any clock signals/timestamps/etc. to go out of sync in the long term (I think with GPS or GLONASS it's less than a nanosecond per Earth second). I'd imagine that a system as complex as the human brain would involve timing issues on that scale and the Taylor nodes would require some sort of error correction for that. But yeah, this is splitting hairs at this point.
It's not that finicky. She is in one of the Lagrange points now, so that means that for every year that passes the three bodies will become out of sync by 20 milliseconds or so. This is so small that there is no noticeable drift. Even if this was a hundred times worse it would still be not really noticeable because the speed of information being transmitted through neurons would still be slower.

When I mentioned being accelerated "very fast" I meant like close to light speed.
 
Haywire didn't have them installed into his brain forming the fundamental linkage to create a larger consciousness between different Haywires. They were merely a tool to communicate and find his way home for him.

I'm not sure how it would work yet if one Taylor body left the current Cyberpunk Dimension. I think it would depend on whether or not time worked similarly between the two dimensions. If they did, she could probably stay synchronised. If not, it might be difficult and she might have to disconnect and then merge again when she came back, or she might be able to perform partial synchronisation in real-time where memories are compressed and sent back and forth but true neural synchronicity that she has become accustomed to would have to wait until she returned.
couldn't she adjust her kerenzikov's dilation factor to make the perceived flow of time match?
 
couldn't she adjust her kerenzikov's dilation factor to make the perceived flow of time match?
So long as the two dimensions weren't more out of sync than what her Kerenzikov could adjust for, yes. But for example, if she was somehow teleported to a dimension that had a large difference in the rate of time that would mean that one body (or more) would be running as though her Kerenzikov were mostly off in order to remain synchronised. She might chose not to do that, and just send compressed memories back and forth, depending on the danger level she was in.
 
The unpalatable alternative is that consciousness is a trick the brain plays on itself, much like it flips the signals from your eyes around.

Essentially, that you are 'telling yourself' who you are as needed, and that this 'story of who I am' is determined by neurons and so forth and that there is essentially little difference between a bag of meat 'telling itself' it's John Smith complete with life history, or a bag of circuits doing so.
I don't see the difference. like what is illusory about that?

Unless you're saying that consciousness straight up doesn't exist at all which is just... no, you'd be literally saying that I (and everyone else including you) don't exist. While it's impossible to prove that anyone else exists the one and only thing that everyone can be absolute certain of is that they themself exist as if they didn't then there wouldn't be a them there to experience the question in the first place. I think therefore I am.
 
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There is no range limit, however there is obvious a limit that all of her bodies need to be in a very similar inertial reference frame. If one starts being accelerated very fast then it will disconnect because of relativistic time dilation. She might be able to compensate a little bit by slowing some of her Kerenzikov while keeping others at a higher speed so that all bodies, despite relativistic dilation, are still thinking in a similar speed but that would be suboptimal.
I wonder how this interacts with FTL cause Legend can do it if he wants to which means the shards know how to do it (and that its possible), even if it may be too energy intensive for their liking. If the cyberpunk universe physics didnt allow it then chirurgion would have problably run into trouble since I doubt something that size is willing to limit its computation to lightspeed.
 
The adoption of the new pet should have been mentioned earlier since it's a pretty significant change in circumstances for the MC.
And that doesn't just apply the the pug, you're writing this story in the present tense for the most part but every so often there's a "btw, this fairly important thing also happened a while back" segment. Which results in a somewhat disjointed reading experience. And it falls firmly into the "tell" part of the "show, don't tell" maxim.
From her comments so far in the story Taylor doesn't care about pets. Or doesn't care a lot I suppose. The new dog is a curiosity for her. Her attachment to the pug and to the Pigeon previously is minimal.

I bet David cares more about little pug than Taylor, the titular owner.
 
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So long as the two dimensions weren't more out of sync than what her Kerenzikov could adjust for, yes. But for example, if she was somehow teleported to a dimension that had a large difference in the rate of time that would mean that one body (or more) would be running as though her Kerenzikov were mostly off in order to remain synchronised. She might chose not to do that, and just send compressed memories back and forth, depending on the danger level she was in.
I guess alot of it depends on the bandwidth of the FTL devices too.
Is there a single transmitter or a network throughout her brains?
You probably require an implanted network of sensors to capture the full brain state. Can't just read it all from the surface. Then collating based of those traces to reconstruct the current brain state, then compress it down. Maybe just transmitting a differential vs previous state.
Even if transmitter is FTL, might end up with a minimum lag based on time for signals to travel from one side of brain to the other.

What is stopping her from achieving even higher levels of speed from her custom Kerenzikov now? I guess there is a limit to how fast the brain can be overclocked even if the body is capable of surviving higher speeds. Humans evolved in a calorie poor environment vs modern day & even then the brain consumes 20% of calories, so maybe some genetic treatments could unlock it's potential to let it run faster. But experimental self brain surgery is not the thing to do unless you happen to have spare brains. oh wait. It's a matter of working down the line fixing each successive bottleneck to unlock a couple extra percent speed.
Tay could implant a second extra brain in her knee and see what that does.
Replace the outmoded electromagnetic links in her Kerenzikov with schmancy FTL ones.
FTL would also be really good for her clinics server farm, since even at that scale comms latency bottlenecks. Give her a budget supercomputer.
It was mentioned that one limit on high speed movement is depletion of energy. Can't possibly take in oxygen fast enough so only have until blood oxy is used up.
Could have some gene treatment to manually cause body to break down fat & flood blood with nutrients so can last in high speed anaerobic mode for longer.
Could antigrav tech be integrated into the brain case to provide inertial nullification?
What about an advanced nanite reservoir that does not merely seal up wounds but can "bridge" large wounds to create temporary blood vessels even if they blew a hole through.
Why have a second heart when you could biosculpt your entire circulatory system with many smaller much simpler pumps so you don't have one or two points of failure. Probably less calorically efficient, but that's a much longer term issue. Such groups of muscle could also serve to auto seal large arteries and reroute blood flow in the even of massive trauma.
 
The more we learn about how brains work the less we believe this type of last-century thinking. Consciousness is an emergent property based on the entire network of your brain.
There's some evidence that consciousness, particularly self-consciousness, is a meta-modelling process. And, may be tied to a 'body model' - without such there's arguably no 'viewpoint', no 'meta-context', to act as the 'core' of the model. So, a model of 'what I've done', 'what I'm doing', 'what I might do' could be central to the nature of consciousness.

This implies to be (actively) conscious a physical body, or a virtual one, an 'avatar', is required. And, many things are thought about in terms of the connections/relationships between that and others, or other things, in the real or virtual environment. Also, this strongly implies that sensory input and memory are critical for consciousness.

A 'consciousness processor', designed to be part of a brain, might well be closely related to some sort of navigation system... (Previous/current/planned-next location.) And, abstract reason might involve navigating through abstract 'spaces'...

Past a certain point, building a conscious AGI, semi by accident, might be possible...

Maybe, but, I mean, maybe reality is an illusion.
Maybe all that's real is the relationship between 'things', not the 'things', at all? :)
So, information is 'it', reality is how the info is perceived. :)

...

Do you think if Taylor starts messing with slime moulds, with good navigation capabilities, good memory, adequate senses, she might accidentally an AGI? :)

(I'm still holding-out for the cyber-spider welding assistant/space construction tool... (To Rosie The Space Welder?) O'Neil-Taylor might turn out to be a robot builder? Is that different enough from being a cyber medic?)

Reminds me of the accounts of GPO engineers in the UK, during WW2, holding up sandwiches on a pole into the RADAR beam, so they got cooked. DIY microwave...
 
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I think that the real issue here is that this:

Replacing it a little bit at a time wouldn't kill you anymore than Mike Tyson knocking you out "kills" you.

Is in serious tension with this:

Consciousness is an emergent property based on the entire network of your brain.

If it's an emergent property of the entire brain, it's really not clear that you CAN replace it a little bit at a time without permanently altering the way the mind works. It's like taking a round pool with ripples, replacing part of the water with ice, and expecting the ripples to produce the same unchanged patterns.

But it seems like a setting conciete that such partial replacement is possible, so I don't think it's worth arguing from a neuroscience perspective.
 
If it's an emergent property of the entire brain, it's really not clear that you CAN replace it a little bit at a time without permanently altering the way the mind works. It's like taking a round pool with ripples, replacing part of the water with ice, and expecting the ripples to produce the same unchanged patterns.

But it seems like a setting conciete that such partial replacement is possible, so I don't think it's worth arguing from a neuroscience perspective.
The assumption is that any replacement would function exactly as the original did, externally at least, though. That is to say that even if it is electric circuits instead of neurons it still interfaces with other brain areas in the same way the tissue it replaced interfaced. So it is more like replacing a bit of a pool of water with alcohol. Wildly different chemically, but if your only perspective is how they create and interact with ripples (its hydrodynamic function) then it would be exactly the same.

However, you're correct that this goes beyond the scope of the story so I'll just leave it there.
 
Haywire didn't have them installed into his brain forming the fundamental linkage to create a larger consciousness between different Haywires. They were merely a tool to communicate and find his way home for him.

I'm not sure how it would work yet if one Taylor body left the current Cyberpunk Dimension. I think it would depend on whether or not time worked similarly between the two dimensions. If they did, she could probably stay synchronised. If not, it might be difficult and she might have to disconnect and then merge again when she came back, or she might be able to perform partial synchronisation in real-time where memories are compressed and sent back and forth but true neural synchronicity that she has become accustomed to would have to wait until she returned.


In that case wouldn't it be the "very fast" be doing a lot of work? Heh
My brain hurts even thinking about a distributed consciousness existing in multiple different inertial references, where it's brains are all subjectively experiencing time at the same rate even though parts of the network are physically experiencing time more slowly based on relativity. Like... Would that work? I feel like it would work but I also feel like it shouldn't, if that makes any sense.
 
That is to say that even if it is electric circuits instead of neurons it still interfaces with other brain areas in the same way the tissue it replaced interfaced.

I've been reading a lot about how mechanical vibrations and ambient chemical signaling are critical to brain alongside simple transmission of electrical signals. It's made me a lot less confident in the 'brain as computer circuit' metaphor, with that's implications of being able to swap out subsections or plug in new functionality.

I'm definitely a transhumanist, but more of a biotech one.
 
The assumption is that any replacement would function exactly as the original did, externally at least, though. That is to say that even if it is electric circuits instead of neurons it still interfaces with other brain areas in the same way the tissue it replaced interfaced. So it is more like replacing a bit of a pool of water with alcohol. Wildly different chemically, but if your only perspective is how they create and interact with ripples (its hydrodynamic function) then it would be exactly the same.

However, you're correct that this goes beyond the scope of the story so I'll just leave it there.
my impression of the Taylor multiplicity is that she no longer functioned like a single brained organism. She mentions new talents like drawing and singing she didn't have before. I assume her 3 brains allow new distributed functions to emerge that spread across the FTL comms across brains. As time passes those new functions will grow. If suddenly one of her bodies die it will be like a stroke for a normal human beings. Those new functions will be crippled to some degree.
 
Which, I note, Miss Militia has never been.

(Being a child soldier was certainly serious, but transposed to this world wouldn't have offered cyber augmentation. After that, she was a parahuman, not a soldier.)
She's a dimensional analogue if these theories are right, not another mysteriously transposed person.
 
omake idea

new haywire portal opens up in 77, Miss Militia is one of the reps from Bet, meets amazon Hana/Taylor and thinks she found her dimensional clone. Proceeds to induct her into PRT, accidental PRT infiltration successful? :V
 
I'd imagine that a system as complex as the human brain would involve timing issues on that scale and the Taylor nodes would require some sort of error correction for that. But yeah, this is splitting hairs at this point.

Or it could be on the flip side and be relatively tolerant of that?

After all there's a lot of biochemical stuff going on and it isn't instant, so there's probably a degree of async happening? Though dunno enough about brains to actually say anything on that... Would love to have someone correct that then ^^'
 
I've been reading a lot about how mechanical vibrations and ambient chemical signaling are critical to brain alongside simple transmission of electrical signals. It's made me a lot less confident in the 'brain as computer circuit' metaphor, with that's implications of being able to swap out subsections or plug in new functionality.

I'm definitely a transhumanist, but more of a biotech one.
There is some evidence that really low-level light may also be used to signal between cells... Biology uses what is available, after all, not what is 'simple'.

The answer to this is to look at the information flows, and things like neural plasticity. If the replacement parts meet the info handling requirements, and the current interfaces (whatever they are), does that work?

Evidence suggests the brain is composed of multiple areas adapted to handle different functions, 'running' different 'agents'. That these agents then form functionality-for-survival groupings. And, the 'top' level (management, so to speak) is a modelling and meta-modelling facility, which critically uses the other bits (like senses, feedback loops from actions, the different sorts of memory). Critically, it is all adaptive.

How do you tell if it is working? You look at the behaviour of the whole system. If the system can usefully call their self 'Taylor', can recall what Taylor has done, does Taylor-consistent actions, you get to call this Taylor.

Philosophical nitpicking is pretty pointless... (Also, see the works of Wittgenstein.)

So, if the slime mould sends you signals via low-power laser, that look remarkably as though they come from Taylor... And is asking for a Gemini body, configured to interface optically to the 'brain', which lives in a slime mould friendly compartment...

So, information transhumanist? :)
 
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