Indeed, amongst other things if it is not too late in the timeline then Malcador can be viciously beaten with a hefty stick for doing exactly what the Emprah explicitly did not want him to do, and Magnus can also be viciously beaten for listening to Tzeentch like a fucking idiot.
I feel like Malcador is getting a lot of Flak that he doesn't deserve - wasn't he the one who tried to be reasonable (and admitted that if he could redeem one Primarch, it would be Lorgar, because what happened at Monarchia was not the right thing)? Most of the bad things in the Imperium are Big E's fault.

I can fully expect Malcador trying to negotiate with the Shroud and having to try (potentially unsuccessfully) to dissuade Big E from wiping them out.

Or did I miss something beyond a Singleton Unit being familiar with Malcador?
 
I feel like Malcador is getting a lot of Flak that he doesn't deserve - wasn't he the one who tried to be reasonable (and admitted that if he could redeem one Primarch, it would be Lorgar, because what happened at Monarchia was not the right thing)? Most of the bad things in the Imperium are Big E's fault.

I can fully expect Malcador trying to negotiate with the Shroud and having to try (potentially unsuccessfully) to dissuade Big E from wiping them out.

Or did I miss something beyond a Singleton Unit being familiar with Malcador?
Malcador was single-handedly responsible the Inquisition. Though to be entirely fair, he did not intend for what he created to turn out the way it did and it is a toss up as to which of the Emprah or Malcador would be more horrified at the 'present' state of the Imperium in the 41st millennium.

He was definitely one of the more reasonable Great Crusade era figures, but he still has a lot to answer for.
 
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Malcador was single-handedly responsible the Inquisition. Though to be entirely fair, he did not intend for what he created to turn out the way it did and it is a toss up as to which of the Emprah or Malcador would be more horrified at the 'present' state of the Imperium in the 41st millennium.
Eh, you can't do alot when dead or in a coma.
 
Admittedly, the Imperium would be measurably less fucked up if someone had just shot Lorgar in the head before he wrote that goddamn book and started the Imperial Cult.
 
You're telling me that both have access to the complete knowledge of human technology? Including all experimental tech? Impossible. Proof or citations please.
both were alive during the daot and the stuff the shroud can do are so absurd that the shear amount of resources and time to develop it would all but ensure it would be noticed especially given its capabilities also they both know about darkglass which was project by daot mankind to breach the Eldar webway which would have been the single most hidden and classified project of the age as it exposure would have sparked a war between mankind and the eldar empire the dominant superpower at the time (and the were just as dangerous and twisted as you would expect of a 60 million year old galactic super power that single handily brought a chaos god in existence in record time no less)
 
The Dark Glass isn't a good piece of evidence, given that it was very likely a prototype of the Golden Throne and thus probably spearheaded by the Emprah himself.

Exactly how involved the Emprah was with the scientific studies of the Golden Age is unknown, deeply involved certainly, but humanity was spread out across a significant fraction of an entire galaxy; there is no physical way he could have been involved with everything.
 
both were alive during the daot and the stuff the shroud can do are so absurd that the shear amount of resources and time to develop it would all but ensure it would be noticed especially given its capabilities also they both know about darkglass
False and wrong, he had to find it and study it. Which pretty much means he was in the dark.
Like the Throne, Dark Glass was capable of accessing the Webway and was commanded by a central Throne that required a Psyker of enormous power to operate. Accordingly, the Emperor may have planned one of the more psychically gifted Primarchs to power the device or its sister on Terra. But as a mere tester of its technology, Dark Glass was far less powerful than the Golden Throne. During the Great Crusade, the Dark Glass was discovered by the Emperor, who sought to reactivate the device in order to advance his own Webway access project.
there is no physical way he could have been involved with everything.
Considering he had to make a pact with the admech, it's safe to say that most if not all of the Dark Age of technology was lost to Terra.
 
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False and wrong, he had to find it and study it. Which pretty much means he was in the dark.


Considering he had to make a pact with the admech, it's safe to say that most if not all of the Dark Age of technology was lost to Terra.
Eh, the Tecno-Barbarians explicitly were barbarians using scavenged tech, and their tribes ruled most of Terra before the Unification. So, it is less that DAoT tech was lost, and more that Terra was a political capital and global hive city, rather than a production capital like Mars.

Now, as to all those people asking when we are in the timeline. I know even I joked about it, but IIRC canonically the Second Primarch was the second to be found, after Horus Luperical but before Leman Russ. I could be wrong, but that would be a pretty dandy place to start a Crusades story.
 
Eh, the Tecno-Barbarians explicitly were barbarians using scavenged tech, and their tribes ruled most of Terra before the Unification. So, it is less that DAoT tech was lost, and more that Terra was a political capital and global hive city, rather than a production capital like Mars.
Considering the fervor and intensity of which the admech pursued STCs, it's safe to say they were in no better position than the Emperor when it came to DAot tech.

I know even I joked about it, but IIRC canonically the Second Primarch was the second to be found, after Horus Luperical but before Leman Russ. I could be wrong, but that would be a pretty dandy place to start a Crusades story.
It's pretty early in the timeline, where you could also see a young jealous Horus.
The Emperor's eyes were fixed on their leader, the greatest of them all. He was a giant almost as massive as Horus himself. Though he was draped in the same rude skins and armour as his followers; though his long, blond hair was dressed in similar backward style to theirs; though he hunched over the table and picked at the kingly food with grubby fingers, ignoring the cutlery provided, it was clear as day is from night that he was not the same as his followers.

He was the same as Horus. This was the presence he felt.

This savage was his brother.

Horus stared at the barbarian king. No fraternal feeling came to him. Instead he was flooded with dismay. By his brother's feet lay two enormous animals one a grey so glossy it was almost silver, the other black. They appeared to have no difficulty accepting their new environment and slept easily on the floor.

'Are those actual wolves?' Horus said, fascinated despite himself.

'After a fashion,' said the Emperor. He spared His son a brief, benevolent look. 'They resemble the animals of Old Earth, though l think you would find the Terran species disappointingly small if you ever saw one.'

'They look like wolves,' said Horus. He thought of his own Legion's badge, and his warriors' lupine affectations. They seemed trite and false by comparison to the men below. They were human wolves, walking on two feet. 'They live with wolves?' he said.

'They believe themselves kin to them. Wolves are important to their culture,' said the Emperor.

'These men are primitives,' said Horus guardedly. He tried to look past his prejudice to their potential. They were strong, and if they were as proficient in combat as they looked, would make excellent recruits for the Legions. At the same time, the idea of these brutes let loose in the stars appalled him. He tried to smother the emotion, but it squirmed in his mental grip and would not die. Of course his father read his mind. Of course.

The Emperor smiled, an expression felt more than seen. 'Are the gangs of Cthonia more civilised than these men? Are the techno-barbarians of Terra who fight in my name?'

One of the warriors was tapping at a decanter with a dirty fingernail, puzzled by the glass. A roar of laughter went up from his fellows as he accidentally pushed it from the table and it shattered on the marble floor. Glass skittered across the hall. Priceless purple amasec soaked into irreplaceable rugs.

'They know of war with guns,' said Horus. 'The Cthonians know technology. The stars were no mystery to us. These men carry swords of plain steel.' He avoided saying the word savages aloud, only just.

'Their highest art is the forging of steel,' admitted the Emperor. 'Their world has regressed to a pre-technological state, and if you saw it you would not be surprised why. It is a beautiful, savage place of ice, fire and monsters. A charming experiment in reconstructed mythologies.'

'What do you mean?'

'Fenris is a relic from the days before Old Night.'

Rarely did the Emperor refer to the past, even so obliquely as that. 'Are they fit to serve you, my lord?' asked Horus. He hurried on before the Emperor could reply. 'They will take much training. Think of the acclimatisation period. We have wiped out cultures more sophisticated than theirs. We should do the same to them.' It was a plausible lie. His objections to these wolf-kin were rooted elsewhere entirely, and he was ashamed of that.

'We have killed many similar societies, but we have welcomed hundreds more worlds like theirs into the Imperium. Fenris has complied. There will be no purge.'

Horus was bereft. He was no longer alone. He should not care, but he did. He was embarrassing himself.

Sensing his son's resentment the Emperor rested a hand on Horus' shoulder. The touch sent shivers into Horus' soul. Loving devotion welled in his hearts that he could not deny, try as he might.

'I understand your disappointment,' the Emperor said, amused. 'You and I have fought side by side for years. It is natural for you to feel this…' The Emperor's humour grew. Horus basked in it like he would the sunlight, even as it burned him. '…sibling rivalry. But I need him. We need him. He was made by me as you were. He is a brother for you, if you like. Brotherly competition is to be encouraged, because it will drive you on to greater efforts.'

The Emperor required Horus to look at Him, so Horus did.

'I know he is a little rough around the edges. Would you believe he challenged me to an eating contest?' The Emperor laughed softly. 'But I will tolerate no dissension between you. You are to cooperate. You must learn to make war together. I am relying on you to help me civilise him.'

'Impossible. He is a savage,' said Horus, unable to keep the word to himself any longer.

'I advise you not to underestimate him, Horus,' said the Emperor. 'He is woven from the same genetic threads that you are. He has conquered half a world a hundred times more savage than Cthonia. Had I not found him and taken him from his people, all of Fenris would have been his. The feat that would have been.' Once more, he smiled. 'Impressive. Do not underestimate him,' he repeated.

Horus' will buckled under the force of the Emperor's attention, but his misgivings would not retreat. He looked into his father's face. Few could do that. A poisonous worry gripped him that this new warrior would be able to do the same, that he was no longer unique. He was jealous, he realised. He would have to share the golden attentions of his father with another. The years they'd shared seemed reduced to an eye-blink. He thought they would last for all time, and just like that they were done. In that moment, everything changed forever.

'He could turn against you.' Horus suppressed a tremble in his voice.

'He will not,' said the Emperor with certainty. 'He will be as loyal as you are. His efforts will multiply yours, when he takes command of his Legion. Two of you, striding the heavens!' The Emperor was pleased. 'This is a propitious day.'

'You are going to give him a Legion?' said Horus. 'Forgive me, father, but is that wise?'

'I gave the gang lord of Cthonia his. It was your birthright, as it is his.'

Horus dropped his eyes. The Emperor radiated a sense of such wisdom. Once more, Horus was ashamed to have questioned Him.

'You are entitled to your misgivings, Horus,' said the Emperor. 'But you must make this work. He is only the first.'

I am the first, thought Horus before he could stop himself.

'If I can find him, and you, then the others will be located eventually. You must grow used to the idea that you are no longer alone.' His father was pleased by that thought. Horus could not be.

'If I cannot trust you to learn how to work with the others, and lead them as the first of my sons, then I have overestimated you,' the Emperor said.

He said it blandly, but the thought of disappointing his father struck Horus with a panicked dread. 'I will not fail you, father,' he swore. 'I shall befriend him. I shall help you teach him.'
 
Eh, the Tecno-Barbarians explicitly were barbarians using scavenged tech, and their tribes ruled most of Terra before the Unification. So, it is less that DAoT tech was lost, and more that Terra was a political capital and global hive city, rather than a production capital like Mars.

Now, as to all those people asking when we are in the timeline. I know even I joked about it, but IIRC canonically the Second Primarch was the second to be found, after Horus Luperical but before Leman Russ. I could be wrong, but that would be a pretty dandy place to start a Crusades story.
I suggest you take careful note of the 'playing hard and fast with the lore' tag that this thread bears.

Considering the fervor and intensity of which the admech pursued STCs, it's safe to say they were in no better position than the Emperor when it came to DAot tech.
The Mechanicus lost 99.999% of their tech to Daemonic corruption, and they were still in a better position than the Emprah with regards to technological knowledge than he was, with the possible exception of the Void Dragon, depending on what exactly happened there.
 
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The Mechanicus lost 99.999% of their tech to Daemonic corruption, and they were still in a better position than the Emprah with regards to technological knowledge than he was, with the possible exception of the Void Dragon, depending on what exactly happened there.

And now there's this group that has every single civilian level STC all saved and backed up - with the tech skills to build up and expand from there.
 
The Mechanicus lost 99.999% of their tech to Daemonic corruption

that was after the heresy before that the admech were well on there way to getting humanity knowledge base back on track also the emperor went the the admech cause of there existing industrial infrastructure which he needed to arm his troops and build his fleets
 
I can see why the other humans would be interested in alternate FTL methods. Their symbiotes mean they can no longer enter the Warp, and it takes a group of their most powerful symbiote holders to open a short-ranged wormhole, whereas they have historically preferred to travel by ship.

Now, the Alphas are very useful, if they get enough of them working together with enough precision their ability to open their own wormholes could provide a capability roughly analogous to the way that Chaos is capable of interplanetary and interstellar personal scale teleportation to insert teams of infiltrators, but having a technological means of moving (human manned)ships at FTL is also useful.

On the other hand, the humans in Grey Goo were able to figure out some sort of technological wormhole method, so maybe these will given enough time?
I'm sorry, but did you just suggest that the Imperium of Man and all of its parts; The Inquisition, the Ecclesiarchy, the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Imperial Guard, the Imperial Navy, the Space Marines, and the Adeptus Custodes would even consider letting a Xenos Abominable Intelligence which harbors other Abominable Intelligences anywhere near Holy Terra?

I'm pretty sure that the Mechanicus alone would launch their own personal crusade against him for so much as daring to exist in the same Sector as the Sol system.
I mean, the shroud could probably make a legal argument that they're only a mutant, altered by means of some fell xenos/unknown intervention, given the human origin of their consciousness.
The rest of the problems are still there.
Finally; holy shit that Warp Storm was fucking gargantuan, that has to be one of the major long-term galactic storms, though at least it's not big enough to be the Eye or the Maelstrom. Space is clear outside it though, so it's post-Slaanesh o'clock, which probably means some pretty serious time-dilation inside the storm. On the other hand, the galaxy hasn't been split in two by a giant gaping maw of horror, so that puts the current era at somewhere between 30k and 40k, unless warp-time did something really funky, which is never impossible when the Warp is involved.
Calling it gargantuan is a slight exaggeration, It's not really clear whether they're saying the storm is 63 light years in diameter, 63 light years across, or 63 cubic or square(when viewed at a right angle from the disk) Light years in volume.
In any case it's too small to show up on a galaxy map, as the galaxy is about 100,000 light years across, it'd be big enough to show up as a permanent hazard on a sector scale map, but it's probably smaller than the Screaming Vortex.

It sounds more like it contains dozens of corrupted systems(maybe over 100, but almost certainly not over 200, and definitely not over 300) rather than hundreds or thousands.
 
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Calling it gargantuan is a slight exaggeration, It's not really clear whether they're saying the storm is 63 light years in diameter, 63 light years across, or 63 cubic or square(when viewed at a right angle from the disk) Light years in volume.
In any case it's too small to show up on a galaxy map, as the galaxy is about 100,000 light years across, it'd be big enough to show up as a permanent hazard on a sector scale map, but it's probably smaller than the Screaming Vortex.

It sounds more like it contains dozens of corrupted systems(maybe over 100, but almost certainly not over 200, and definitely not over 300) rather than hundreds or thousands.
You're right, it is a slight exaggeration: A standard Imperial Sector is 200 x 200 light years, the Screaming Vortex has varied in size over the ages but is 'larger than the average Imperial Sector', though not massively so. That warp storm, assuming no distance shenanigans and that they were indeed in the center, was ~63 light years in radius, or ~126 light years across. Which would make it probably approximately half the size of the Screaming Vortex: Definitely a considerable warp storm and large enough to have a good one to two hundred star systems trapped inside it, as well as be a relevant navigational hazard\marker for all the surrounding sectors, but not one of the 'great' storms like the Storm of the Emperor's Wrath, the Gates of Fire or the Hadex Anomaly.

Most importantly, that is large enough to be somewhat self-sustaining and if we assume it was larger before Slaanesh's birth 'blew away' its outer edges and pared it down to its current state, that would explain how Drich could have missed that literally galaxy-shaking event. It also means that the systems in its immediate vicinity are probably not in great shape, as they likely would have been 'Gloaming World' equivalents prior to Slaanesh's birth; not quite deep enough into the storm to get sucked into the Warp entirely, but enough to get bathed in far more warpy bullshit than is safe or healthy.
 
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Again, we don't know if that's happened yet or not - Slaanesh that is.

Until Drich reveals the time outside the storm we're all grasping at ideas. And for some reason you all want the worst of the worst. :p

Hell, given the way Drich writes, it could be pre-Golden Age and Humanity's still on Earth.
 
Malcador can be viciously beaten with a hefty stick for doing exactly what the Emprah explicitly did not want him to do
You mean die whilst sitting on the throne for Emps?

Or something else that I'm not aware of? Because it seems that he was the only person close to the emperor with a surplus of common sense including the emperor.

Edit: Hadn't reloaded the page in hours, didn't see your response originally. But not to be one of those people with a hard-on for grim dark there was always going to need to be a decentralized security apparatus with broad powers in the Imperium. Especially after everyone even remotely capable of running a galactic government well was either dead or entombed. And it needs to be decentralized so the entire thing can't be subverted by a few well placed agents, or well-intentioned extremists that dive straight into dangerous demon related shenangins.
 
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The men of iron conflict is generally attributed to mankind's lose of knowledge the war its self didn't last very long but they basically hacked every computer they could reach and blue screened it. So humanity lost a insane amount of hard copy's for there technology on top of this humanity went a little crazy with AI killer robots running around and starting destroying the men of stone and intact STC. Very few planets managed to save mere scraps of the knowledge mankind spend thousands of years earning. So once all this was over and the federation was dead or hanging on by a finger nail. The warp storms closed off all FTL travel and mankind's Fate was sealed.
 
The men of iron conflict is generally attributed to mankind's lose of knowledge the war its self didn't last very long but they basically hacked every computer they could reach and blue screened it. So humanity lost a insane amount of hard copy's for there technology on top of this humanity went a little crazy with AI killer robots running around and starting destroying the men of stone and intact STC. Very few planets managed to save mere scraps of the knowledge mankind spend thousands of years earning. So once all this was over and the federation was dead or hanging on by a finger nail. The warp storms closed off all FTL travel and mankind's Fate was sealed.
And then human psykers turned into warp bombs and enslavers and demons used them as gateways into worlds that didn't have anti-slaver and demon defenses. The most successful human response to the crisis was "Break all the machines. Kill anyone showing signs of psycic power." They didn't have much society after that, but at least they lived.

And I would argue that the Old Ones caused all the problems in 40K. They set up the Eldar. They cooked off the Necrons. They made the Primorks who degenerated into the orks. They fought one side of the first universal war that created the conditions ripe for chaos gods to form. Just about the only things that can't be traced back to them is the Nids and Enslavers, and the enslavers are not even a faction, just a natural warp hazard.
 
If the Old Ones had just helped the Necrontyr fix their incredibly shit lifespans instead of telling them to piss off, none of 40k would ever have happened.
 
The necrontyr would still go on to conquer the galaxy and them they would had go after the old ones
We have no idea what they would have done, because literally all of the Necrontyr's culture and society was built around first their shitty lifespan and then their hatred of the Old Ones for snubbing them.

But whatever it was, it wouldn't have been the War in Heaven, because they wouldn't have stared real close at their sun and found the C'tan if they hadn't been trapped in their home system by the Old Ones, and so the Empyrean wouldn't have gotten ruined forever.
 
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